Hi all:

Well, JA has been out for just about 6 months, and more than likely all here have had at least one run through the SP side.

Also, pretty much all reviews and scores that will come in, have.

MetaCritic has JA as #232 with an average 81% score (for reference, JKII is #51 with a 89% and JK is #33 with a 91). Gamerankings has a similar 81%.

I am of the opinion that Jedi Academy was under-scored for a number of reasons including:
- People handicapped it in comparison to Half-Life 2, which they thought was 'just around the corner'. Indeed, many reviews gave the technology/graphics a full 20-30% lower mark than Elite Force II, released 2 months before.
- People resented it for being a full game when they thought it should have been an expansion - more than one review sais 'this is better, that is better, but I can't get by feeling it should have been an expansion'

There were some very legitimate reasons for marking JA down - I'm not asserting it is perfect, just under-scored.

What do you think?

Mike

JA SP, in my opinion, is much, much, better than JO SP.

You have a limited choice of whom to play as the main character. You can even edit the face and body of the character. That's what appealed to me.

Secondly, you have the choice of using different types of sabers - single, dual, or staff. This is a good feature for those players who are awkward in using single which is compulsory in JO SP.

Also, you can choose the missions(limited, of course) which you wish to undertake. In JO SP, however, you cannot do so.

JA SP is all about choices, and I like it much better than JO's. ;)

I think it was overrated. I find the story line pretty lame. Jaden Korr lacks character, and come on, isn't building your own lightsaber supposed to be something only a fully trained Jedi are able to do? And then theres the most annoying character in the JK series, Rosh. JO had a way better storyline IMO, Kyle is a much better main character than Jaden and I like the JO SP maps more than JA's.

As for gameplay, everything's nerfed, guns are weak and overall gameplay is slower than JO. Think around 70% sounds more right.

I'd say that the story from JO is better than JA, but the gameplay of SP JA is much better than JO. I also thought JA got a bad rap due to unreal expectations. Also, I don't see how it matters whether JA should have been an expansion or not in regards to how good it is.

Originally posted by FlyingWookiee
And then theres the most annoying character in the JK series, Rosh. At least you can kill him...

Definitely underrated. For one thing, JA has many more great moments like the Rancors, Hoth, speeder bikes, ect. then JKII. The guns were a lot more useful in JA then JKII (bit of a pity since JKII was the game that could've benefited from them the most what with the first few levels). Vastly more options when fighting a duel, and all the great moments that result from that. I didn't find the story to be that bad...it wasn't as detailed as JKII's, but it also has a lot of customization and choice of levels which is the main reason for it. Personally I think I might have rather there been less locations but having them more unique and the story being more detailed, but the many locations of JA is pretty good too. Also, I don't really get why everyone hates Rosh...? The graphics look noticeably better than JKII, and the use of GTKRadiant and Q3map2 seems to have paid off. Greater use of models in the levels resulted in a lot more detail and the much better looking Yavin, and the very Star Wars-ish Tatooine canyon.

Originally posted by Gabrobot
Also, I don't really get why everyone hates Rosh...? I don't hate him, I think that his personality is perfect for someone overly ambitious and a nice weak target for Tavion.

But ... he also seems like he could be going to Toshi station to pick up power converters ...

Mike

i think its great, my only problem with JA is the lenght. some of the missions were just too short.
it definitely as good if not better than JO, IMHO

I'll let you know after I've had a chance to play it (haven't yet).

I did start replaying some Jedi Outcast single-player levels last weekend to get used to my new control setup in a familiar environment, and to see what it looks like at 1600 x 1200 resolution and High graphics quality. Wow, it looks great, and I get 60 fps. The Jedi Academy demo gave me half of that.

I'd say 81% was about right. It was far too short, and far too easy imo, and the two different endings could have been done better, considering they were both basically the same thing, only with more bosses on one. I did like it more than JO though, simply because I got to choose who I wanted to be, rather than have to play as Kyle yet again.

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I did start replaying some Jedi Outcast single-player levels last weekend to get used to my new control setup in a familiar environment, and to see what it looks like at 1600 x 1200 resolution and High graphics quality. Wow, it looks great, and I get 60 fps. The Jedi Academy demo gave me half of that.
what new settings did you have on?

In a refreshing minimum point of view, JA (SP) is my favorite of the DF series (MotS included). Far to say the game was perfect, very far actually. Still for me at least the pluses were much higher than the minuses. This contains SPOILERS so please do not read if you don't want to know several key points of JA.

I never finished DF, and though I found it enjoyable the game for me was Doom in SW which didn't set it really apart from shooters of the time. Especially since the storyline was presented in the form of pre and post-level briefings.

DF2, of course was great because it introduced the Jedi abilities and lightsaber duels which was for me the core of SW to begin with. It took me a very long time to buy this game though so by the time I had it JO was a few years away. While most people enjoyed the story of this game though, I didn't. I never liked Jerec or his group try as I may, granted SW villains have a tendency for cheesyness but the actors were too over the top for my tastes. That though wasn't the worst, for me the concept that a place can actually infuse/activate the Force inside a being was just sacrilegious. The Valley of the Jedi feels for me like it goes against everything in the movies how the Force is in everything and is a part of nature and evolution. There step into the shiny beam of light between the statues and presto: insta-Jedi master.

When JO came out, I bought it from the get go. While it retained the Valley story with a new villain, I could do nothing except accept it. The story of JK2 was more focused which was great, but I did not like too much the locations visited. The battle aboard Galak's ship, Bespin, Cairn Station and the assault on Yavin were the only levels I truly liked a lot. However I disliked the fact that neutral npcs were gone and that very few friendly npcs appeared. I might have liked Desann a little more had he not been a purple T-Rex or Tavion dressed like a freaky variation of a scantly clad thief and an indian princess. Still I liked them better than Jerec and that Twi'Lek dude that made me cringe every time he appeared in JK.

In JA, I loved the idea of having a new character I could create, I like the transition of Kyle now to mentor (his trilogy being enough for me) though he isn't the main anymore he's passed the baton to a new central character but still remains an important figure. The locations in JA were superb, I can't think of a single location I didn't really like. However their execuition fell flat sometimes because they were too restricted into a specific area; like Mos Eisley you can only move about the 4 docking rings not the township and beyond (I hated that, original screenshots made me belive that the Tatooine levels were in fact one large one where you visited Mos Eisley and then left to the desert for the quest). Coruscant was disappointing for me (being my fave SW world) because the architecture didn't look like it and more than that because you didn't really do much there except jump from catwalk to catwalk in an almost circular trajectory additionally why always do they solely focus in the rooftops? I had hoped to see ground level (ala Ep2) and have just a part of it in the roofs, still kudos for at least trying to put it in. Storywise, I think the concept was hugely better than the previous ones, just not really explored. Not a big fan of the scepter taking Force energy thing, but that aside, the whole resurrection of Ragnos and a Sith army rising was very much to my interest. I was disappointed that again there were virtually no neutral/friendly npcs within the levels (except Korriban and the missions with Kyle and Chewie), the way the Academy was handled also was a let down (I had hoped it would have been like Elite Force where you could walk the Academy talk to people and also develop the charcater through friendships, romances, etc. though Kyle was barely explored in DF if I recall correctly), virtually no scripted story sequences at all, very little variety in customization options (heads, clothes, sabers, etc), no Luke kicking butt like in JO, and the final battle (light side) would have been much more exciting for me had Ragnos himself been resurrected fully instead of his Tavion possession. Loved the scepter/sword thing though. Loved the variety in mission types; the crashed ship was great, swoops lots of fun, rancor levels awesome, Boba's level unique (though I think his EU resurrection thing sucks), loved Korriban battles and architecture, the different fighting options were also a big plus for me, though I had wished they were interchangeable like KotOR (switching between single, double, dual at will I probably wouldn't have used guns at all last 3rd of the game). All in all though I did like JA best of all and I hope that if they decide to make a new trilogy with Jaden or simply misc Jedi characters I hope they'd put in these small details (I know some people will think I want the game to be an RPG which is not what I mean at all; I mean more story and character developed and continue more emphasis on more actions than just shoot and hack through levels like Elite Force, Deus Ex from what I heard and possibly Doom 3 from what I saw in previews though I could be wrong there).

Yikes, sorry for the looooong post.

I liked JK2s story better, truthfully. But, overall, JA is better. The sabers are cooler, and the enemies, the worlds, everything is just cooler. I noticed a lot more detail work went into the maps. (and I thought JK2 architecture was good!

Anyways, I didnt like Korriban. Just that simple... I just didnt, it looked nice, but, just wasnt my taste. Also, i feel, it just ended. I mean, you just get your new saber, kick boba's butt, and then.... well, luke gives the command to go get em... should of had one more screen of missions but... thats just my opinion. Good game, will be a classic for years to come :)

It was far too short, and far too easy imo

You are right there. I didn't have to rely on walkthroughs to help me pass the SP missions, whereas I needed them in JO. ;)

Originally posted by t3rr0r
what new settings did you have on?
I changed my movement, force, and weapon keys from the default layout I used the first time I played Jedi Outcast. I have to "unlearn what I have learned" so my new, more efficient layout becomes instinctive. I want to get used to it in Jedi Outcast before starting (finally) Jedi Academy.

All those reviews were crap, JA was like 20x better than jk2.

I deserves at least a 90% score.

Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
All those reviews were crap, JA was like 20x better than jk2.

I deserves at least a 90% score. I agree crow-nest it deserves 97% if you ask me!

I love the variety of opinion and voting (and even the difference between the opinions and votes!). I just wonder who put it in ~25%-ville? I'd love to read the rationale for that - we learn more from those with whom we disagree than from a mutual admiration society ...

Mike

Well, i suppose 81 is about right, maybe just a touch high, but its certianly not as good as JK2 and no where near JK1, if this game gets a 97%, then JK1 must need about 150% :D

Originally posted by Druid Allanon
You are right there. I didn't have to rely on walkthroughs to help me pass the SP missions, whereas I needed them in JO. ;) I think the only reason why JO feels longer (at least the first time), is because you spend so much time doing puzzles. JA is pretty straight forward.

Or is that just me?

Originally posted by acdcfanbill
Well, i suppose 81 is about right, maybe just a touch high, but its certianly not as good as JK2 and no where near JK1, if this game gets a 97%, then JK1 must need about 150% :D
I didn't play Jedi Knight I until after Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. The dated graphics, corny acting, and primitive lightsaber made me want to barf. I couldn't finish it.

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I changed my movement, force, and weapon keys from the default layout I used the first time I played Jedi Outcast. I have to "unlearn what I have learned" so my new, more efficient layout becomes instinctive. I want to get used to it in Jedi Outcast before starting (finally) Jedi Academy.
actually i was refering to "Wow, it looks great, and I get 60 fps. The Jedi Academy demo gave me half of that."

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I didn't play Jedi Knight I until after Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. The dated graphics, corny acting, and primitive lightsaber made me want to barf. I couldn't finish it. You'll Laugh; You'll Cry; You'll HURL!!!

... Barf - isn't that the guy from Spaceballs?!?!

... ok, I'm serious now ...

Interesting perspective. Have you played Dark Forces? I still love to play that on my Mac (2x the resolution of my old DOS version, and better sound) ...

I guess it just being a product of a time when Pong was revolutionary ... I can still play these blocky games (though I admit to playing Doom Legacy to get better graphics - I'm not a masochist!)

Mike

Originally posted by Prime
I'd say that the story from JO is better than JA, but the gameplay of SP JA is much better than JO. I also thought JA got a bad rap due to unreal expectations. Also, I don't see how it matters whether JA should have been an expansion or not in regards to how good it is.

At least you can kill him...

Agree 100%.

It's a good thing to point out that the majority of reviewers (especially in their rush to get a review out as soon as possible) can only be "bothered" to cover Single Player and MP reviews seem based on a single gaming session if at all.

In my opinion, the MP portion of JA has a lot more to offer.

And yes, I know, I'll get flamed by the legions of fans who swear that Saber combat was 100% perfect in JK2 and JA "ruined it" but including Siege (with it's vehicles and classes) etc and mods like Asteroids (which really was intended to be part of the game, but they just ran out of time) really take the game to the next level.

By focusing on "you, the player" (the RPG stuff so many people claimed they wanted last time around) the storyline HAD to be made weaker and the character development diminished. So that was a pro for some a con for others. Still it seems the RPG crowd wanted Galaxies in terms of customization.

In the months after the game came out of course we learned all the tweaks and cheats and things that let you unlock the potential of the game.

The biggest negative for the game was probably the bugs before the patch (exploits, the server listing bug, etc).

The fact that it wasn't made on the Doom3 engine or that people wanted it to be an expansion or "handicapping" (which is pretty silly in and of itself... what are they admitting they want to give Half Life 2 and Doom3 99%'s and "Best Game EVAR!!!11" awards) should have no affect on a review of a game.


That reminds me, another pet peeve of mine, Amazon.com needs to make a rule REJECTING any reviews from non-professional critic sources until a product is actually released. For just about anything the first dozen or so "reviews" are absolute BS, people just use it as a message board or talk about leaked betas instead of the actual product. It's as bad as some sites making "Reviews" that are really previews. Lame. [/Rant]

Originally posted by Prime
I think the only reason why JO feels longer (at least the first time), is because you spend so much time doing puzzles. JA is pretty straight forward.

Or is that just me?

True, it took me longer to beat JK2, and especially longer to beat JK1. Even though, jk2 had more levels than jk1, and jka had more levels than jk2.

I didn't play Jedi Knight I until after Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. The dated graphics, corny acting, and primitive lightsaber made me want to barf. I couldn't finish it.

In my opinion, JK1 may have been primative, but, it just gave me that star wars feel, like the OT. Not even the new movies are as epic as the original trilogy. And JK1, just actually felt like star wars, sure, the saber was bad, so, download saber battle X. Its not really the story and stuff, its just the way it felt... it felt like star wars. No other game has really felt like that to me, its just been something with "star wars" written on it, like the new movies.

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I didn't play Jedi Knight I until after Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. The dated graphics, corny acting, and primitive lightsaber made me want to barf. I couldn't finish it.

I played Jedi Knight for the first time after I played JO, and the graphics didn't bother me very much (Not even Dark Forces graphics does). Sure the acting wasn't perfect (sometimes horrible, sometimes pretty good IMO), but I liked having cutscenes with real people. I also liked not always relying on a saber.

JKA never felt like Star Wars to me, Dark Forces (which in my eternal shame I still haven't finnished) and Jedi Knight takes the lead there.

Originally posted by txa1265
You'll Laugh; You'll Cry; You'll HURL!!!

... Barf - isn't that the guy from Spaceballs?!?!

... ok, I'm serious now ...

Interesting perspective. Have you played Dark Forces? I still love to play that on my Mac (2x the resolution of my old DOS version, and better sound) ...

I guess it just being a product of a time when Pong was revolutionary ... I can still play these blocky games (though I admit to playing Doom Legacy to get better graphics - I'm not a masochist!)

Mike Dark Forces is the only FPS game that gave me motion sickness. That one truly made me nauseated (maybe I had low fps and didn't realize it). I couldn't play it because of that.

I never managed to beat Dark Forces either. I got stuck on this one level where you had to rescue someone from a prison complex, remember playing for hours and hours, totally unable to figure out what it was I needed to do. A shame, I loved the game up to then. What with all the problems with playing DF on later versions of windows etc, I eagerly await the DF mod for JA.

The idea of having actors and live action work to flesh out the story (so to speak) doesn't seem to be that popular anymore, it tends to be ingame engines or FMV sequences. I guess its rather expensive to have live action work, you need sets and such. I remember the heyday of the live action trend where they got Mark Hamill, Malcolm McDowall et al in Wing Commander 3 (which cost $4m to make I seem to recall) and the Westwood games like Tiberian Sun where they got Micheal Biehn and James Earl Jones. Hey, there's a star wars tie in with both of those games then!

As for JA, I feel it was good but not spectacular and somewhere in the region of low 80s would be about right, for me. THe SP campaign is short but enjoyable, and I liked the structuring. I get the feeling Raven wanted to do a lot more with the level choice structure, the RPG stuff etc but weren't given enough time to make it very deep.

I liked JK2 the best I think - simply b/c of the storyline, though, which was very well executed. In terms of gameplay, JA is by far the best, and in terms of immersion feeling, JK1 still gets it. Nothing has captured that feeling as well as the sheer massiveness of the levels (like those Nar Shaddaa levels! Holy cow they were awesome!) I hope that the next JK game (if they actually decide to make one) goes back to that style. And the other thing that helped was the NPC characters that were just there for the effect.

In terms of gameplay, though, JA's saber combat was fantastic. Whiners aside, nothing matches the feeling of hacking down stormies with a double-bladed saber or the first time you twirl those dual blades. Sure, it had its issues, but nothing too major.

Overall I'd put it at about an 87-92 range. And only that low b/c of the relatively shallow storyline.

Originally posted by txa1265
Barf - isn't that the guy from Spaceballs?!?!
Half man, half dog. He's his own best friend.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Still it seems the RPG crowd wanted Galaxies in terms of customization.
And yet they don't play Galaxies...

Originally posted by Kengo
The idea of having actors and live action work to flesh out the story (so to speak) doesn't seem to be that popular anymore, it tends to be ingame engines or FMV sequences. I would think that live action may work better now than it used to. With old games, you have part of the story told with live actors, and then you go back to controlling your character who is made out of twenty pixels :) I always found that this broke my immersion a bit. With todays graphics and effects, the difference in appearance is much less, and so the immersion can be about the same. But then again, if it looks great using the engine, why use actors?