Hey now. Let's lay off the personal insults. I was only asking a reasonable question.
Anyway, I think the answer here is obvious. Just make a mini-mod that slightly slows down the flag carrier. OR make the sabers one hit kills and use Force Speed to catch up to the flag carrier.
Originally posted by razorace
Hey now. Let's lay off the personal insults. I was only asking a reasonable question.
Anyway, I think the answer here is obvious. Just make a mini-mod that slightly slows down the flag carrier. OR make the sabers one hit kills and use Force Speed to catch up to the flag carrier.
I believe our only recourse to fixing these 'problems' is to mod the game. But as I have said a while back, we need to do this in a unified way. All the good coders like razorace that exist in this community need to come together and decide to do a mod. We need to hit it hard and fast so that we're not drowning in a sea of those 'other' mods by the time we release, but it will also require some planning and forethought.
I know a lot of you will want to wait and see if Raven 'fixes' these things, and I love Raven, they make really great games, but as I have said, they don't have the best track record here.
Does anyone have any idea when the SDK will be released?
I was playing and just observed a disturbing occurrence -- almost every server I joined had their force regen time set to 0. I think you can figure out what this means.
Originally posted by razorace
Uh, why play sabers only CTF anyway? The very nature of the sport requires you have have faster runners or guns that can shoot the runners down.
Umm no offense dude but here is a tip to all Lucas Forum members.
Full Force Saber only is the #1 game type in competitive play and has always been.
The 1v1 full force duel ladders out lasted every single 1v1 No Force duel ladder/league and had more participants than ANY other type of competition through the duration of JK2.
Full Force saber only Team FFA and Full Force saber only CTF had more (and still do) active clans than any other game type.
When the ladders for full weapon CTF dried up and died, the ff/so ones were still going strong and even as recent as two months ago when the game was considered totally "dead" by the masses, virtually every north American ff/so CTF clan competed in a large company sponsored competition.
I'm really trying to bite my tongue and not call you guys clueless, but I really don't think you guys (Lucas Forum People) grasp just how large of a competitive gaming community there is in JK2/JA.
I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that most competitive gamers don't come to sites like this but still, you guys need to realize this is not just a few disgruntled players making these posts.
And Prime,
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've said many times this game was designed and marketed for the "casual gamer/star wars fan" and almost 0 thought about game play mechanics other than the aesthetics was put it.
I made the statement before that "If you got owned in JK2 this is the game for you" and although many took offense to that it's becoming evidently clear that it was a correct assessment.
The game looks great, has great new "star wars" content, but as far as complexity, challenge, strategy and skill go it's been simplified to the level of a Game Boy Advance two-button mashing hand held game.
What really is making all of us mad is that all the "cool" star wars stuff could have been added *with out nerfing the game play and making it overly simplified.
And as for those of you who feel the need to chime in with trite catch phrases like "learn and adapt" do me a favor and actually read what people are discussing before you try to make brownie points.
No one and I mean NO ONE is saying we can't dominate the masses of players like we did in JK2.
I have utterly destroyed every player I have faced on public Jedi Academy servers just like I did in JK2.
The reason for this, is this game is about 80% Jedi Outcast and not to be mean, but most of you people are not nearly as good at this game or it's predecessor as you think you are.
The problem and issue we have is not "winning" on public servers against average players like yourself, it's competition level play against players on the same level of skill in competitive matches becomes a total stalemate in duels and CTF because of all the nerfing.
So please before you try to impress people with your catch phrases, actually pay attention to what people are debating first.
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
And Prime,
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've said many times this game was designed and marketed for the "casual gamer/star wars fan" and almost 0 thought about game play mechanics other than the aesthetics was put it. I disagree that zero thought has been put into gameplay, whether or not there is enough is up to you guys to decide. However, it is certainly within Raven and Lucasart's right to make the game they want to make. If that game is geared towards the casual gamer who does not care if moves take "skill", then you have to live with that (but can of course express your opinions), or make some mods.
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
I made the statement before that "If you got owned in JK2 this is the game for you" and although many took offense to that it's becoming evidently clear that it was a correct assessment. My personal experience is that I am doing about as well in JA as I did in JO. I am not really a competative player, and I don't enter tournaments or things like that. In JO I usually finished in the top 20 percent or so on public servers (usually FF and NF duels and FFA/TFFA games). On the few servers I have been able to get on in JA, I seem to be doing about the same. Now I don't claim to be an elite player, but I don't think I am a complete newb either. I certainly didn't get ownt on a regular basis in JO, and I don't seem to be in JA. The impression (and granted I haven't been able to play a lot yet) I get is that if you sucked at JO, you are probably going to suck at JA.
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
The game looks great, has great new "star wars" content, but as far as complexity, challenge, strategy and skill go it's been simplified to the level of a Game Boy Advance two-button mashing hand held game. From what I have seen, button-mashing does not lead to success in the long run in JA. I think good players will still beat bad players pretty consistently in the gametypes I mentioned. The skill level required may not be up to the level you want, but I don't think the outcomes in games are completely random either.
But again, even if it is and the game cateres to the average player, then it is likely because that was Raven's goal. You guys might not like the direction they took, but that is their perogative. From the little I've played I've enjoyed JA MP quite a bit (I've only played FF Duels, FF TFFA and FF FFA). I suppose I am a casual gamer, which means that when I play I try to frag other people, but I like that the ways I can do it are "Star Wars ways", if you understand what I am saying. Ultimately, I want to have fun. :) I play the JK seris because it is Star Wars, not because I am competative at FPSs.
For a lot of casual gamers, JO MP lost a lot of appeal because the many gametypes game turned into nothing but gripkicks and pullkicks. This took a lot of the Star Wars fun out of the game. I think this is why we don't see these moves in JA, not because Raven is trying to stick it to people. This doesn't mean that we all want to pretend that we are Jedi (although many RPGers wanted exactly that :( ). It means that this is one of the rare MP games where there are many players who are drawn to it for reasons other than it being a FPS.
So for me and my ilk, JA provides what I am looking for, and I get the impression that this is the game Rave/Lucasarts was trying to make. In this respect so far JA has been a big success, IMO. Many people might not like that or us, but I think the casual player's desires are just as valid as competative players.
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
What really is making all of us mad is that all the "cool" star wars stuff could have been added *with out nerfing the game play and making it overly simplified. Perhaps it could. I don't presume to know enough about what reasons there were to make the game the way it is. But it is probably safe to assume that JA was not designed to require a high skill level and a win-at-any-costs attitute. Again, that is perfectly OK for Raven to do. As they have said on many occasions, they realize not everyone is going to be happy with the directions they take.
If I was a really competative player, I would not be holding my breath for a patch that turns JA into a competative players dream. It appears that that is not the game Raven/LA wanted to make. But that being said, Raven did not abandon you guys. Like they have said, they have made the game extremely customizable through cvars and moddability (I don't want to get into the viability of these things here). I would say that in the end it is probably going to be up to you guys (the competative community) to develop mods that cater to your tastes. This gives you complete freedom to get what you want. :)
Its not a question of whether a better player would beat a poorer player, that go's naturally.
It's the removal of features that's made s/o ctf unplayable. I heard most features from JO were available in JA beta, but were since removed. It's surely easy for raen to re-add these things, but make them togglable.
Ok, I just spent the last 3-4 hours playing MP in several diffent games, such as CTF, duel, power duel, siege etc.
FF/SO Duel games: there were none, they were all NF
Power Duel: Owned scores of people with just grip and drain.
CTF: One huge stalemate, I tried killing this guy for at least 25 mins, but to no avail was just healed and energized back to 100% health and force. So basically I accomplished diddly squat.
Siege: I had some fun playing this, kudos to Raven for creating RtCW, StarWars style.
There is no depth to this game, the only one that was enjoyable was Siege. Everything else was either frustrating and/or too boring.
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
The problem and issue we have is not "winning" on public servers against average players like yourself, it's competition level play against players on the same level of skill in competitive matches becomes a total stalemate in duels and CTF because of all the nerfing.
im still watchin theee div vs fk demo..hah
Duels are awesome, whoring butterfly and kata's, ridiculously weak sabers, insane saber hit blocking and no limit on saber staff and duel saber swing combos. Everything you want for a spamming fun game. If i was in a duel clan, i wouldn't be too happy right now either.
Did ctf again and got bored after 56 mins, still 0-0.
Originally posted by Comm539
Did ctf again and got bored after 56 mins, still 0-0. But if the flag carrier is unstoppable, shouldn't the scores be super high or something, not scoreless? Isn't that how the scoring works? :confused:
no prime, because both cappers are unstoppable lol
Because one team's flag has to be at its base before they can score with the other flag? I haven't played CTF in a long time, humor me.
Originally posted by Prime
Because one team's flag has to be at its base before they can score with the other flag? I haven't played CTF in a long time, humor me.
Yeah. When both teams have the flag, no one can score because your flag has to be at your base to score. So untill one team kills the enemy fc, you, as an fc have to be constantly running and hiding so that you won't get killed. If you do get killed, it's almost certain that the other team will score.
It's obvious that the mod community will never fix this.
The one key thing a mod needs to be successful is it's core game. If the base game does not constantly appeal to large audiences, especially it's competitive base, then a mod will hardly be successful. There are plenty of games that we could all theoretically have modded, but if the core game is never truly established, how are you going to mod it successfully?
JO had plenty of 'mods', but since the community was so busy being divided over the base game, the mods never took off. This isn't even taking into account that many of the mods merely enhanced the poorer qualities about JO, or what I like to call Chutes and Ladders. Every game has a little Chutes and Ladders in it, by the way.
What I find interesting is that S/O CTF is a defining feature of JA. It defines JA as a game. Guns are guns are guns.... with countless FPS' in existence, it has become difficult to somehow botch up the guns part of the game. However, FF Sabers Only tells you about the other half of the core game. CTF, because it has an objective that has little to do with actual personal fragging, and more to do with achieving an objective as quickly and smoothly as possible, is the perfect medium to 'tweak' or change JA for the competitive audience. As I said before, guns hardly need tweaking, it's the Force/Sabers that require some lovin'.
The JA for "commoners" has already been established. Everything about moves that made the common GBA player unhappy has been 'fixed'. No kicks, grip effectiveness completely gone, sabers even weaker than wiffle bats now (it's now glowing silly putty :p ) , Force powers completely useless besides drain and perhaps force jump when you want to leap away, and all the special moves require force power. No offense to the Raven staff, but they've just created the perfect game for the casual gamer, which is it's main audience. Good move... smart move.
I guess there is nothing wrong with this, however now the other half the community is once again crying for help. JO started out differently. The competitive half said "fix some minor bugs and we're cool" while the commoner half said "make this game simpler". Raven eventually moved towards the simpler and left the competitive half out. Perhaps this was a smart move, considering that there are more casual gamers than people looking for 'deep' games -- Gamers to be more apt.
My suggestion is this: A patch for JA, since JA is so much about 'customization and catering to the masses' should simply be divided into TWO GAMEPLAY MODES (this basically the same thing that Comm has been saying). The primary flaw with JA now is that the effectiveness of tactics vary across four or five different gaming modes. This doesn't help the competitive community, or even people like myself who are looking to play a standardized, in-depth game.
So, the call is for two games.
The patch would do the following: One version is left as it is. Anyone who has EVER posted the following phrase: "This isn't JO, it's JA, you suck", gets a patch that fixes whatever bugs exist, but leaves the gameplay in each of the modes relatively the same. It's common knowledge by now that a vast MAJORITY of casual gamers enjoy the star wars atmosphere present in JA. It's highly doubtful that they will ever make any huge demands about changing the gameplay. More likely, they'll demand that something get removed after a year or so.
The SECOND version, or the TOGGLE feature, would be the one that implements the melee system, the grip, the everything else BACK into the game. Saber damage and blocking gets returned to 1.02 JO levels. Why? Because, in general, we have NO standard for saber damage or blocking, we just know that post 1.02 wasn't working. What better way to do things than to start from the beginning again and go from there? That system was pretty good, and it's better than polling the community to simply come up with new numbers. Using the beginning as the standard, you simply start all over again. Return the saber combat back to what the single player, or even what the demo had going on. That means the special moves don't drain force... the DFA doesn't simply move in one direction, and the katas aren't entirely useless against a player that decides to flee.
This would be a "relatively simple" (okay, I actually have no idea how much work that would require, probably tons of it), to do, AND you WOULD NOT anger a majority of your Casual population. The "Gamers" would not get any new bells and whistles, so it wouldn't be "unfair". The Casuals can then make threads about how they play the 'real' JA, and the Gamers can sit back, laugh a little, and continue playing their version of the game. Yes, the community would be split... yet perhaps they would still both be able to thrive. The current system will only drive the Gamers out, leading to yet another mass exodus. The other way.... perhaps would give the game a longer life span. Perhaps.
but that's my suggestion. bottom line: two games, EASILY togglable. You don't have to call the toggle "Pro Mode", just call it "tournament" mode or "Nightmare" mode or "Competition" mode. In this new mode, the kick effects, saber damage, etc. would be STANDARDIZED ACROSS ALL GAME TYPES. So the competitive community could then start from scratch, EVERYONE LEARNS THE SAME TACTICS, OR SOMETHING SIMILAR, and then competition can even become interchangable. Sometimes the duelers might want to try out some CTF, etc. But if they are ALL different, it just causes a massive split. Nothing will thrive.
So ends my post.
:bdroid2: <----- I am a Battledroid...
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
:bdroid2: <----- I am a Battledroid...
More like Professor Longwinded.
Good post.
< completely agrees with anything that has been said about JA mp needing fixing. ive heard that the beta did have kicks, so it really shouldnt be that hard to reprogram it into a patch. please do so, as you (RAVEN) are most likely going to loose the competetive portion of the gamers who played jk2 and would like to play jk3.
kicking is dumb learn some skill noobies
The thing is, this game wasn't developed with the "professional" player in mind (in fact I don't think there is a game out there made with this type of player in mind, except maybe MS Flight Sim). Just casual "joes" like me, who are big Star Wars fans. You can't introduce a whole new fight system when your fan base has finally got a hold of the old one. Sure you can introduce new features, but many people get frustrated with learning new combos. A game with a high learning curve just doesn't sell.
I'm 29, and If I learn a combo it's purely accidental. Hell, I just learned yesterday that you can turn one lightsaber off when using dual sabers.
Raven should've done this...Raven should've done that...It's the same selfish BS I hear with every game. This is what mod makers are for to create a game that will cater to our "elite's" (and I use that term loosely) needs, while preserving the base game for the average "joes," the way it was meant to be played. Raven's job is to fix bugs, and maybe release a map or two.
Originally posted by Lord Storm
The thing is, this game wasn't developed with the "professional" player in mind (in fact I don't think there is a game out there made with this type of player in mind, except maybe MS Flight Sim). Just casual "joes" like me, who are big Star Wars fans. You can't introduce a whole new fight system when your fan base has finally got a hold of the old one. Sure you can introduce new features, but many people get frustrated with learning new combos. A game with a high learning curve just doesn't sell.
I'm 29, and If I learn a combo it's purely accidental. Hell, I just learned yesterday that you can turn one lightsaber off when using dual sabers.
Raven should've done this...Raven should've done that...It's the same selfish BS I hear with every game. This is what mod makers are for to create a game that will cater to our "elite's" (and I use that term loosely) needs, while preserving the base game for the average "joes," the way it was meant to be played. Raven's job is to fix bugs, and maybe release a map or two.
MS Flight Sim for professional gamers? omg please... You can't even compete on that. Quake3 is a professionally played game. This game runs on the quake3 engine so it is very possible to play competitively on it. JK2 had a huge competitive community and was played competitively. Yet, the average casual gamer could have fun with it.
Originally posted by [div3rse.jello]
im still watchin theee div vs fk demo..hah
Send me that bro, that match was smokin
Anyways, I agree with what weiner dog said completely (its hard repressing laughter while reading that)
The problem with JA is
1. Saber damage is down
2. High damaging moves, such as Lunge, takes force
3. Complex combos are nerfed
4. Because saber is down and high damaging moves take force, and there are no complex combos, drain whoring is so easy you could play a 5hr duel match and the winner decided by who needed to go to the bathroom first
And all you people who are saying "Raven did a good job this, Raven is this and that, blah blah blah!" Open your eyes. This games main focus is holding down Attack1 and Alt attack. No combos, specials with force, how are you going to kill your opponent (providing that you want to and aren't an rpger) besides whailing your saber around like an idiot. Stop sucking up to Raven because you idolize them so much and realize that this game is only fun if you want to "Lo0k lik3 d4r7h maUL 4nD sW1nG ju0r s4b3r ar0und!!!11111oneoneone Lik3 in t3h mov13s!!111oneone". And I'm not trying to bash Raven, but this game shouldn't be called an FPS, because competition in this game (with players who know what they're doing and dont blindly walk in katas) is just not going to work. End of story. Don't say 'give it more time' because this is JO with a few more physics (like ****ty roll) some new ub3r k3wl j3d1 lik3 m0ves!!111 (kata) and nerfed combos (kick, grip kick, grip, ptk, etc). What's new to learn?
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
Stuff.
Well, I agree with the mod confusion of JK2. It was a huge mess. That's why I've been pushing the Open Jedi Project (
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104564). We need a unifed development platform to add important/cool features to the game in addition to fixing stuff that Raven hasn't touched.
However, the two modes idea for JKA isn't going to happen. Expecting Raven to cater to the "competitive" gamers (especially when they are extremely elitist and will never stop whining) isn't going to happen.
Speaking of which, you guys really gotta lay off the elitism. Noone can have a intelligent discussion with you (or agree with you) if you start slamming/labelling them the second they don't 100% agree with you.
Precisely.
I'm quite impressed that so far, we've only had about three useless comments in this thread, most of which consisted of "learn s0m3 sk111z0rz". That's good, it's easily ignored.
However, I think it also points back to my suggestion. Next patch should = Two different styles of game.
One for the latest "you suxx0r for k111l1ng m3 t00 f4st!! and one for the people who accept kicking, pulling, throwing, and sabers that actually keep a player from simply healing the damage away.
We need one where the casual players, most of whom have huge egos that they can hardly supress, can continue playing the original version and stay content, and another where everyone else can enjoy their competitive play once again.
It's asking a lot, but the community needs a STANDARD from Raven. The community cannot fix it or establish it, it's been tried, tested, and proven FALSE. I think the fate of JA as a game that competitors will enjoy is in the total hands of Raven at this moment (not to put any unwanted, unneccessary pressure on them :p ). what they decided to do, or better, what Lucasarts even decides to LET Raven do will determine if this game will also simply die a quick 1 year death of pain.
Here's beggin' to Raven for some help. Give the competitors a seperate game, if possible and tolerable. :cool:
Originally posted by Comm539
Did ctf again and got bored after 56 mins, still 0-0.
Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics.
It probobly will, it probobly won't. What I want to know is why Raven takes an amazing competetive/non-competetive game (despite a few bugs) like JO and make a sequel that takes competetive gaming and slams it in the ground.
catalyst....go hide man,we are not talkin bout server filled with people named "aznPeace"...aka newbie holding the flag
Originally posted by Catalyst
Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics.
Bro, know your audience. We all play CTF with a PASSION. We know when the game has gone to far, and this time, s/o CTF has been, to put it in terms we can all understand, owned! Playing with 16 players is one thing, but playing with 16 skilled players who have played CTF since the game (jo) was out is ANOTHER thing.
Well Razorace, you're right on the one point.
I don't consider myself an elite player by any means, and the chances of getting two games is slim to none, but I figured I'd throw that out there.
At the same time, it's quite hard not to sound "elite" when a discussion about game issues is constantly bombarded by useless comments like "kick sucks". No reasoning, no logical "balance issues" are involved with it. It's just a complaint about something that the said player is incapable of performing.
On the other hand, I feel the comments of the other players, while sometimes perhaps whining (myself included), is still based on some kind of logical reasoning or desire, as opposed to just "it suxs". The people who were interested in a Jedi like atmosphere and zero competition have gotten there way hands down almost every time. I feel the more competitive, or 'elite' could use just a little bit of recognition, or better... some MERCY from Raven on this one.
I also don't see WHY giving a patch that makes two games would be so wrong. Just a toggle that sets a bunch of default CVARS and the kick system put back in would work. I know, it's not THAT simple to set it up, but seriously.... just a bunch of default CVARS and the kicks and such put in, and the ability to switch between one default set and another. this way, both crowds are somewhat happy. When discussions happen, people will know which Default game they are playing, and it gets balanced accordingly for Competition style or Standard. Perhaps it's more work, but at the same time, perhaps less backlash as well.
Originally posted by Catalyst
Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics.
Maybe you should try playing a game with vet JK2 ff/so CTF players who know what they are doing. The score will stand at 0-0.
Nice post shaft.
Since JO the non competetive community has whined about everything, from Kick Lam3rZ!!11 to Pull Throw Kick whorez. Now it looks like this time they've gotten more than a piece of what they wanted, they got the whole damn cake.
Competitive, profesional gameplay?
"We ctf players"?
What the f-uck are you all talking about, with you all i mean wheiner dog, rumor, traj, diverse, comm and all those dorks that agreed 100% with this thread. My god specially rumor, man you have no shame, you need a good but-**** to settle down.
I wont track all the stupiditys you all have said while i was reading the thread.
Where exactly did you play JO, in lan?
If so, then download a mod so you and your clanmates can play it at will.
You really ****ed the exitment i had for JA.
People played JO at their homes, in public servers.
If you consider yourself competitive or profesional because you have a clan or because you played/won another dorky tournament in any of the 50 states US has, well you probably be right, you are pros, but it doesnt mean you play better than me, i could kick your ass or any of your friends anytime, it means you are official nerds, who officially played JO for too long and now cant handle a new game.
Every person who played JO for more than a day is absolutely disapointed for JA (the kicks, the damage, all that).
The people who said "play the game", "just wait for a mod" and all that, is very disapointed indeed, its just that they move on.
Is really JA MP that bad (i dont have it), but if it is then send a formal letter to RAven with the signature of ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the people complaining and telling them how you want the game to be, do something important and more trascendant tham crying and dreaming they make a patch.
I agree with the first post in this thread of whiner dog, but no the kicks JO had, cause they were simply unreal, but the staff kicks for all clasess is a good idea.
Yes it was fun to pull kick a noob and not letting him stand up, yes it took skill, but do you all really want to have that kind of skill. Well i am tired of that, and i dont wana get skilled in any of that crap again.
If a patch must be made, it must be a well balanced one, that has corrected all the wrongs and bads, and also, one that doesnt add more wrongs and bads. To do that they should take their time to make really good patch so that in theory it wont need another (in theory).
I think, i made my point, if not, ill post again.
:shades2: :vamp1:
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Maybe you should try playing a game with vet JK2 ff/so CTF players who know what they are doing. The score will stand at 0-0.
Have fun, idiot.
By competetive players I think we mean people who actually COMPETE instead of playing in ffa_bespin private dueling and amsitting like the other half of the JO community.
Your point is duly noted, and once again, i must question if you were even processing what was being said.
First off, when they say professional... yes, there is a thing going around where some "clans" are actually sponsored. Hence, professional. You can't be sponsored if you don't stay active, hence professional.
Second, at no point in time did anyone say that being in a clan meant "elite" status. Perhaps people come off as a elite, but in this case, I think it's safe to say that they are elite at what they do.
Third, they obviously do not play on a lan. They are all in different clans, and they compete against each other. I don't know how regularly it is done, but they compete, and they do serious competition, they play to win, they tweak the game for what it's worth. Once again, your comments are foiled.
Fourth, your comment about kicking their butts.... sigh... you also fit into that category of "gamer with large ego". If you could kick their butts, perhaps you would seek them out and kick it. Just to give you a little back history on these people. They RARELY, if EVER, post on these forums to present useless claims about gameplay issues. I have never SEEN an fk member say "i think we should look like jedi more and have cooler saber effects" nor have I seen rumour or the like ever comment on something that had nothing to do with any kind of gameplay, like something about cosmetics.
Fifth, your comment was nothing more than a flame, even though the thread says specifically that you should have a discussion and not flame. So far, you came in with the following comments.
1.) I haven't even played the game yet.
2.) I don't play s/o ctf competitively (therefore pretty much exempting your comment about destroying all of them.
It's quite illogical of you to believe that a bunch of good players that actually practice playing s/o ctf are going to lose to a 'possibly good player' who does not play it regularly.
3.) You guys are just whiners because you don't want to adjust to new tactics.
Once again, these guys have explained 1 billion times that they've already given JA and extensive go, and after 1 hour, 2 hours of gameplay, they literally came to STALEMATES. Professionally sponsored clans that play nothing but CTF coming into STALEMATES. This just doesn't happen in a game this soon...... unless JA is ACTUALLY VERY SIMILAR TO JO!! And if that's the case, then their original analysis about removed attack options being a poor decision was correct.
4.) I think the game needs to be balanced.
That's the point of this thread as well. S/O CTF just want their version of the game fixed. They're hardly even concerned with what happens to FFA or Siege, etc. Just S/O.
Please people.... just please..... stop coming here calling people dorks and then trying to convince that you, the people who don't even COMPETE OR PLAY this game type seriously and consistently, somehow have the insight of the stradegy or know-how that was simply missed. This is not one of your typical "my saber isn't blue enough to fit the movies" threads or "I think that force lightning is too powerful" (it's hardly noticeable in this game). It's a serious, well-thought, well examined argument. Suggestions are needed, not comments about your 'supposed' skillz.
Now there's a post worth reading, couldn't have said it better myself Shaft
shaft for president....again..
nor have I seen rumour in the like ever comment on something that had nothing to do with any kind of gameplay, like something about cosmetics.
laff..oh yeah myth..pm me ur aim for the smoking demos
I dont have AIM, catch me on IRC or MSN
Well i want to post again to take out a post i felt the need to remember.
Originally posted by Rumor
I work full time, i'm currently remodelling my house, raising 16 (yes, SIXTEEN) puppies, going to school, learning photoshop/maya/webdesign, and i play sports and go do **** with my friends, plus i hunt and fish and go camping. i'm an Assistant Scoutmaster.
After all that he said.
Originally posted by Rumor
No life my ass.
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The most amusing part was when he said "(yes, SIXTEEN)"
You can all find that in the 5th page of "MP, omg", if you dont believe it.
I hope Rumor you now realize how incredibly pathetic YOU are.
You can thank me later :D
Ohh, by the wya, sorry doctor i didnt read your whole post (i stopped in the second paragraph).
I am sure you had something to share, hahaha.
No offense taken, it's always too long, and written poorly anyway. I have no patience to excel in the written word. :D
You claned noobs and your fruity pms and fruity aids (yeah jello and myth), cya at MP when i get it.
Can you please give me your MP names so i can remember you when i pO-wn ya. Than you.
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
No offense taken, it's always too long, and written poorly anyway. I have no patience to excel in the written word. :D
Now thats a cool atitude.
Peace.
Originally posted by thelastaod
< completely agrees with anything that has been said about JA mp needing fixing. ive heard that the beta did have kicks, so it really shouldnt be that hard to reprogram it into a patch. please do so, as you (RAVEN) are most likely going to loose the competetive portion of the gamers who played jk2 and would like to play jk3.
and if they fix it that would mean that possibly several thousand extra copies of the game being sold...
[div3rse.jello]
[div3rse] CTF 64.237.35.160 in JO
ill be on 2mmrw
i could easily report that to a moderator but ill lay off the pansiness
Originally posted by Catalyst
Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics.
we aren't talking guns catalyst. and we aren't talking everyday pub s/o ctf, we're talking top clans.
bah JO
Who plays JO now?, only noobs as far as i know.
The best players quited it a long time ago.
Lat time i played JO was in february or march, as i said in another post i destroyed the cd.
I was talking about JA, what is "cya at MP, when i get it" means.
And dude, report all you want, its not my prob that you are a sisy, unless you are a girl in which case it all makes sense, and therefor i apologise.
Originally posted by AxVegetA
Well i want to post again to take out a post i felt the need to remember.
After all that he said.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The most amusing part was when he said "(yes, SIXTEEN)"
You can all find that in the 5th page of "MP, omg", if you dont believe it.
I hope Rumor you now realize how incredibly pathetic YOU are.
You can thank me later :D
Ohh, by the wya, sorry doctor i didnt read your whole post (i stopped in the second paragraph).
I am sure you had something to share, hahaha.
and you call me pathetic?
do you realize how much of a time investment it is when you have to hand feed 16 pups every three hours, since the day they were born? you are the most pathetic excuse for a human being i've ever seen. Dr. Kevorkian really looks to be a nice guy now...
do i need to spell out the second part for you in third grade english? it means "<sarcasm> yeah, i have no life </sarcasm>"
notice the sarcasm tags. that means i'm being facetious, aka I"M SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE.
and you seriously have the gall to say i'm pathetic because i have a life that doesn't revolve around a starwars game?
get a life.
yes vegeta
and here you are posting your opinions about JO and JA when you have NEITHER of the games
Originally posted by AxVegetA
bah JO
Who plays JO now?, only noobs as far as i know.
The best players quited it a long time ago.
Lat time i played JO was in february or march, as i said in another post i destroyed the cd.
I was talking about JA, what is "cya at MP, when i get it" means.
And dude, report all you want, its not my prob that you are a sisy, unless you are a girl in which case it all makes sense, and therefor i apologise.
wow, i think you must be the biggest tool i've ever seen.
i don't report posts that insult me, asshat, i reply to them.
and since you obviously have no clue as to who is playing jo, you obviously don't know that ALL of the s/o ctf clans still play it when they aren't spending a couple hours at a time trying to find new ways to kill cappers. not to mention some of the oldschool, for lack of a better word, "elite" ff/so duelers have been playing it as well.
you said you could own me, so i challenged you, not my fault that you backed down. go ask your mother for money so you can go to the movies with your friends, i'm sure she doesn't mind giving her live-at-home 30 year old son who has the mental capacity and maturity of a three year old anything he wants.
Originally posted by [fk]myth.
And all you people who are saying "Raven did a good job this, Raven is this and that, blah blah blah!" Open your eyes. This games main focus is holding down Attack1 and Alt attack. No combos, specials with force, how are you going to kill your opponent (providing that you want to and aren't an rpger) besides whailing your saber around like an idiot. Stop sucking up to Raven because you idolize them so much and realize that this game is only fun if you want to "Lo0k lik3 d4r7h maUL 4nD sW1nG ju0r s4b3r ar0und!!!11111oneoneone Lik3 in t3h mov13s!!111oneone". And I'm not trying to bash Raven, but this game shouldn't be called an FPS, because competition in this game (with players who know what they're doing and dont blindly walk in katas) is just not going to work. End of story. Don't say 'give it more time' because this is JO with a few more physics (like ****ty roll) some new ub3r k3wl j3d1 lik3 m0ves!!111 (kata) and nerfed combos (kick, grip kick, grip, ptk, etc). What's new to learn? So you're saying that JA is only fun for people who don't care about being competative, and just want to get out and swing lighsabers around and do things resembling what Star Wars fans have seen in the movies. You are also saying that there is no competative value in JA and it just isn't going to work. End of Story.
Good. I'm glad we got that settled. Now we can close all these threads because there is no point talking about what might change JA into a competative game, because it isn't going to work. [/rant] I don't mind discussing the issues, but saying that anyone who disagrees with you is sucking up to Raven "because they are our heroes" doesn't help anything (except trying to make yourself feel better).
P.S. The non competative community is not the only group who has whined about JO/JA.
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
On the other hand, I feel the comments of the other players, while sometimes perhaps whining (myself included), is still based on some kind of logical reasoning or desire, as opposed to just "it suxs". There do seem to be some valid issues and suggestions here, but understand that trying to express these by flaming people and ranting that Raven has ruined everyone lives is not really helping the S/O cause. This problem is magnified because many of us who have been on these boards since the release of JO remember all the initial ranting about very minor things ("I got ownt by DFA!"). So when we see rants about the game right off the bat, the initial reaction is to brush it off as just whining about not being good right away. This thread has improved a bit in this regard, but there are still plenty of threads that where the initial poster just flies off the handle demanding justice be served. I doubt this will gain anyone a patient ear or sympathy, especailly from Raven, who have seen plenty of that before :) At least if everyone can remain civil, something might get accomplished :)
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
...comments like "kick sucks". No reasoning, no logical "balance issues" are involved with it. It's just a complaint about something that the said player is incapable of performing.
I agree that there has been a lot of "kicks sux" ranting around here. I will try and give you some reasons why I don't like it, at least from my point of view. :)
I more or less represent the casual, semi-competative gamer. As I have said before, I like the JK series because it is Star Wars, not necessarily because it is a FPS. This means that I want the game to at least have a pretty decent SW feel to it. I realize that MP isn't going to be good as SP for this, but it still can make us feel like we are in a big Star Wars battle. I think there are two related reasons why kicks were railed against so much in JO. The first is that kicks of this nature just do not fit into the SW theme, at least not in the constant flip-kicking sense. I mean, the flip-kick just doesn't look good, and no one in SW is kicking all the time. If it was not spammed, and only used once and a while, I don't think anyone would really have had a problem with it. Casual gamers seem to be quite happy with the staff kick, for example. Now, the reason why it was spammed was because it did damage directly to health and knocked people down, thus leave their opponent defenceless. Which pretty much makes it the deadliest weapon in a S/O game. We can all see why it was spammed, but the casual gamers don't like that it is. Now, I can just feel all the competative gamers frothing at the mouth, but just bare with me. :)
Now let me see if I understand the competative S/O CTF player argument. The issue you are having is that basically there is no real way to kill a FC consistently. The lightsaber cannot do the job, so you are left to use other means, which in JO was the flipkick. This gave you the ability to knock someone down, either over ledges or to leave them open to attack. You need this because the lightsaber isn't good enough to kill. Is this more or less what you guys are saying?
As I see it, having a flipkick is not inherently what makes CTF work. All you really need is a means to kill the flag carrier. Whether the kill comes from the lightsaber or kick doesn't really matter (and this really goes for any S/O game). Like some of you guys have said, you don't care how it looks. You would be happy with spoons, if that was the most effective thing :)
I guess all I would hope is that whatever the solution would be to make kills easier in S/O games, that it have some basis in SW. Ideally, I'd like to see lightsaber be the effective weapon it really should be. If cranking up the damage makes the difference, I'm all for that. First because it will seem like SW, and secondly because there will be lots of frags. From where I stand I don't see the ability to knock someone down as necessary if you can kill an FC fairly easily without it. But if it is necessary, I'd like to see either the power of push/pull to potentially knock someone down, or if a kick is better, at least make the kick look like a kick, and not make it look like you are running up someones face. Also make the kick less damaging than the lightsaber, as to keep with the SW themes. Also, from my limited experience with the gametype, I don't see team heal (and energize?) as really being necessary for the success of the game. Why not just get rid of it all together?
Just some thoughts from Mr. Casual Gamer.