I don't understand why people are arguing. Its clear that the entire ctf community is in uproar about how features have been ripped out of a so called sequel.
You all seem very happy with whats been done for your respective gamemodes and for that be greatful. All we ask is that our gamemode, s/o ctf is fixed to encoperate the features in jk2. It'd jjust need a patch, perhaps bring back the features and mae them selectable by the server as to whether they'll use them. All the people who don't play ctf, this doesn't concern you and I don't understand why your arguing against the will of the entire ctf community about a gamemode you know little about. All we ask is a patch that won't effect your modes, or can have some of the feauures from jo turned on, if you choose. Whats so wrong with that?
The new ctf maps are in one word, HUGE. You all say 'oh this is saber combat' and w/e. But no, this is ctf. Flag carriers don't stand around whilst the attackers make an orderly queue to duel him, with the carriers team stood around watching merrily. The carrier is a guy who doesn't want to be killed AT ALL COSTS. This means if he gotta run like hell and not fight a sole for the entire nmatch, thats what he'll do. In addition, any damage caused whilst he's running around is countered by healers and energizers.
So you see, gk, pk, ptk rage dfa were ways to stop the carrier, or kill before a healer can heal. The point we make is now these are gone, theres no way to stop a flag carrier who's running, and no way to kill them before someone heals. Your 'saber combat' all sounds very honourable, but you have to remeber this is ctf.
I have to add that cvars saber damae isn't a good alternative. Make sabers one/two hit kill and the fc never fights EVER. With no way to stop him running (no pk etc) the games stalemate. Only by pull whoring and thus charging up the fc's force (with absorb) on can he be slowed, but you just gave him enough force to speed off again.
Leave sabers weak and healers heal in time.
I hope you understand why we're complaining a littlee clearer.
Well, I could respond to this but I think a better idea for you Prime would be to check out the new thread posted this afternoon by Wiener Dog called 'A serious Discussion of MP Problems' (or something like that).
He really gives a good overview of the problems we're talking about here. Check it out.
The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.
To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.
So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.
Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.
Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans
They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.
The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".
Side Two: Everyone else
:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.
"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....
"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"
Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.
"You suck for playing SO CTF"
... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.
In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.
I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".
And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.
And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.
To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.
So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.
Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.
Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans
They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.
The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".
Side Two: Everyone else
:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.
"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....
"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"
Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.
"You suck for playing SO CTF"
... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.
In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.
I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".
And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.
And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.
I think thats the most intelligent post i've read all day ;)
We don't care about the other gametypes, keep things as they are (if they like them), we just want the option for JO features reimplemented (for ctf) for the obvious reasons already mentioned.
I'm still laughing my ass off at the guy who said he loved siege because it made him feel like he was really a stormtrooper
Let's get to the heart of this matter. Saber Only CTF in JK2 was never a very respected gametype. Even at the end, when Diverse and =X= servers were basically full at all times (hell diverse server is still full basically 24/7) it got no respect from the ladder sponsers. Take that last ladder we did, we had to basically prove we could get teams together before they would even host a saberonly ctf tournament (it should be noted that none of the other competitive communities had enough interest to get any of the other ladders going, that includes NF saber dueling, while the s/o CTF community had a basically full ladder of competitive teams). When Raven thinks CTF, they think guns. Look at the new ladders for JA. There are NO s/o CTF ladders our tournaments. Raven could care less about the small s/o CTF community.
Full Force dueling is clearly a joke in JA, and I can't be bothered to point out the obvious reasons, since they have been stated quite well by others. But this, as well, was a small and little recognized part of the community. Raven is just going where the cash is, and that's with the nf saber newbies. Let's face it, they do make up about 80% of the player base.
Originally posted by traj
The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.
Drop the condescending tone, right now.
Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.
Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.
You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.
kickfest? laugh. just cause you are too uncoordinated and sluggish to pull off a kick, dont hate on it. face it. you suck.
you have obviously only played ffa, as well. you dont understand how kick is needed for ctf.
oh btw roll stab ownz joo.
i'm bored of nancy boy admins and their nut sucking parade of newbies
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.
from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.
Originally posted by mr2turbo
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.
from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.
damn good post. 100% agreement.
Originally posted by C'jais
Drop the condescending tone, right now.
Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.
Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.
You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.
why is it that when one of us posts in a rpg thread that everyone comes down on us, not them when they start flaming before us, but when we have a thread about what WE play, WE get the short end of the stick from the admins, not to mention the players who play other gametypes?
why is it that when we try to play, our sexuality, heritage, intelligence, and parentage , not to mention many other things, so you may be a bit more understanding as to why our e-tones are sharp as a razor. we've been harassed for a year and a half for simply playing the game, and if it had been real life, the people would have been put in jail for doing such things.
and please, keep the condesencing tones to a minimum, sir.
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.
To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.
So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.
Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.
Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans
They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.
The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".
Side Two: Everyone else
:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.
"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....
"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"
Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.
"You suck for playing SO CTF"
... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.
In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.
I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".
And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.
And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.
thank you for the exellent and informed post.
Ok heres my 2 cents.
Turbo, I really couldnt have said it better myself.
I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him.
Obviously you didnt read any of the posts.... Were talking about FF/SO (thats Full Force Saber Only) Capture the Flag, and FF/SO Duel.
there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!)
Ok...... Immerse yourself into an actual star wars RPG like Galaxies, dont come into a FPS and try to play it like an RPG.
The sad truth is Media is right, Raven cares only for the majority, but were not asking them to change what the majority like. Were asking them to change a style of gameplay that we like.
FF/SO CTF is a joke as it stands for all of the above reasons. Its 1 giant stale mate.
face it, ladies. JA is rpg candy. plain and simple. we're going to have to make the best of it, because the jk2 community is going to die out. we're just going to have to grin and bear it, and hopefully everything will come out allright.
oh, ps, for all of you that like the katas and special slowmo moves or whatever have a *cough* darth rpg *cough cough* great time with that.
Originally posted by mr2turbo
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that. Of course. Why else would they make games? :)
Companies like Raven have only shown me that they make games for money.
Companies like Blizzard make QUALITY games for money and work on fixing their flaws rather than giving up on them.
Raven gave up on Outcast after 1.04.
Blizzard is still making patches for ALL of their games, even really old ones such as Diablo or the Original War Craft etc....
Half the reason Outcast died is b/c Raven gave up on fixing and enhancing it. Instead they moved into the opposite direction with it. Making it worst/making more bugs.
It's not always about the benjamins is what im trying to say. You create a large and very loyal fanbase by always fixing and enhancing, not reaching a point of mediocraty and calling it quits, like Raven did with Outcast. Multiplayer games always need patching.
Hell even CounterStrike is still releasing patches and thats...how old?
gave up on jk2? no they made ja. douche bagel.
So... Blizzard made WarCraft 3 but their still patching WarCraft 2.
They gave up on Outcast.
no... i dont think you get it. They made JA to replace outcast. they thought JA would be outcast plus plus, but they decided to take suggestions from "Darth RPG" and "Luke Skywanker", and ban the real pros from the jk2 community. ggfu.
The main thing JA will do is further seperate the community. Take JK2, where at least BaseJK was better then any of those lame ass mods. Not so with JA. BaseJA is tailored for the rpg darth mauls, and i'd say anyone who wants some skill involved will probably turn to adjusting their server settings. So eventually we will have 500 servers with all different settings, and very little common ground. Ladders will slowly die because each group plays the game differently. Maybe i'm wrong, who knows
Yah yah... Agree'd media... Game will have less servers then jk2 does ... my estimate in 2 months.
Raven tried to make "everyone" happy -- and you damn well know u can't please them em all. So now just about everyone is far less then satisfied with the game instead of just a few groups being unhappy. Hopefully they decide who to make happy in the next 30 days so i can take the CD back.. GG; bring on UT2k4
they quite obviously didnt try to make everyone happy, because its a little too obvious who this game is tailored to.
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am NOT here to flame or call anyone "n00bs". I am simply here to ask the game developers to fix a few things with my beloved game type. I would like to see the kick, force combos, and overall force usefullness increased.
Thank you.
ps vgfstfugtfoffsgffu
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am here to flame and call everyone "n00bs".
Originally posted by [fk]mediablitz
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am here to flame and call everyone "n00bs".
lol media, whatever floats your boat ;)
Originally posted by Screed
Companies like Raven have only shown me that they make games for money. That is the primary concern certainly, which does not make them evil, it means they are trying to put food on the table. Much as they like working on games, no one is going to work for free :) Also, Raven is a contactor to Lucasarts in this case. They are given a set budget and guidelines (like "we want a hardcore online game" or "we want a Jedi game that can be enjoyed by the casual gamer") by LA, and they try to make the best game they can with the specified budget. They have freedom to work within that framework, but they also have restrictions.
Originally posted by Screed
Raven gave up on Outcast after 1.04. Actually, they did nothing of the sort. As the contractor it was not Raven's decision in the first place to make patches for JO. It was Lucasarts. Raven could go to Lucasarts and suggest that a patch is needed, but it is up to LA to say yes or no, and most importantly, provide the money for Raven to do it. Besides, it would be illegal to continue to work on the game without Lucasarts permission.
Originally posted by Screed
Half the reason Outcast died is b/c Raven gave up on fixing and enhancing it. The reason Lucasarts decided to to stop putting out patches was because it already had Raven working on JA. Again, Lucasarts has a finite budget for JO and JA, and Raven only has a certain number of developers and resources. They couldn't both continually put out patches and complete JA at the same time.
Originally posted by Screed
It's not always about the benjamins is what im trying to say. And if you look at the Raven dev reviews and diaries, you will see that most of them absolutely loved working on this game. For them it wasn't all about the money. The fact that there were no patches after 1.04 has nothing to do with their love of JO (or JA for that matter).
Originally posted by Screed
You create a large and very loyal fanbase by always fixing and enhancing But that isn't the only way to build a loyal fanbase. You can also build it by making a great game or series of games. Would you agree that the number of games out there that are constantly updated is relatively few? But yet there are many series that have a loyal fan base. The JK series is obviously one that is loved, even after JO, and likely will be after JA (I'm including both SP and MP). You can decide for yourself whether this loyalty to Raven and LA is warranted, and whether you want to support their games.
Originally posted by Screed
not reaching a point of mediocraty and calling it quits, like Raven did with Outcast. You are certainly entitled to you opinion that JO was mediocre, and there are legitimate problems with it. But judging by the general fan response (especially SP) and the glowing reviews, I think Raven was probably pretty happy the way it turned out, and it is probably safe to say to a lot of people JO was a big success. Both sales-wise and response-wise, JO is one of the better games out there.
Originally posted by Screed
Multiplayer games always need patching. It is always great for games to be improved, but at some point companies have to decide to move on and spend their finite dollars on something else. In this case, LA decided to focus its money on JA. Personally, I'm happy they did :)
Originally posted by kazesan
This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.
I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.
Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.
Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?
If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.
Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.
shoot them with a gun in s/o ctf? wtf... gtfo
if you ever played competively in s/o ctf you'd know there is detailed strats, defences, positions, capping routes, etc. so stfu
"play a real clan game"? fu tool
We are talking in regards to this game as a Saber Only Full Force game. Not guns. There is no possible way to kill someone who doesn't want to die in jk:a
this thread is turning into a ****ing preschool. peace rums, alex, bfw, media.
oh. one last remark. i love how you guys think you are totally mature and have the most valid points because you speak in perfect grammar and spellcheck your posts. ggfu nubsacks.
who you referring to.
no reason to be angry.
that guys post was just retarded.
"shoot them with a strong gun" i mean WTF
doctor shaft for president
shaft knows his stuff
Originally posted by darth_michael
who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?
anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:
there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.
so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.
anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.
and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.
exactly our point. change s/o ctf. did we EVER say anything about changing your modes? no, so be quiet and post in regard to topics that have an effect on you. why would you care about what goes on in ctf when you can choose to go to an ffa server?
i don't know how many times i've told people this, but in order to kill a good fc with good protection in ctf, you must use things other than just running and sabering. it is essential. now please, don't talk about 'cheap kills' because the fact is we play to find the best way to kill and survive, and maybe we aren't roleplaying (personally glad we're not), but that is up to us, not you. now leave us alone unless you have something useful to contribute regarding CTF.
and, like you, we are (or were) excited about JA. what if raven put back in even more 'cheap' moves for us to use in the game, and did it for all modes? you would be complaining, as we are now because these 'cheap' moves are the only thing that allow us to kill protected fcs. now, if raven left it like this, would we go to nf boards and cry about people like you complaining? no.
Originally posted by kazesan
Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?
If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.
you obviously haven't thought this through, because the person pulling him when he's absorbing will be giving him force, allowing him to heal and use speed. not to mention a guardian who can heal and attack the attackers. finally, do you realize how hard it would be to perfectly synchronize one person pulling and the other sabering?
and please, we DO NOT CARE about your gametypes. if you don't think s/o ff or s/o ctf interest you, then stay the hell out.
Originally posted by C'jais
You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.
exactly, the s/o ctf community and ff duel community's concern. thank you for pointing out what we've been saying to you this whole time. and we didn't mean we didn't like JA, we meant we didn't like our gametypes. have you seen a SINGLE member of the s/o ctf and ff duel community saying they like the game? it IS our loss, not yours, and it is ours to deal with by protesting to raven.
and prime, thank you for posting good content, i enjoy reading your posts.
Finally they seem to get the message that we want the stuff thats in JO in JA FOR CTF GAMETYPE ONLY. Even make it serverside selectable. So many people intefer with a cocky impression that they know s/o ctf and really no ****all.
I hope Ravern decdes soon too, coz teh gurantee runs out in 12 days >:
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Kurgan: Saberdamagescale is a solution, I will give you that, but what about those who fail to implement it?
Here's a thought: host your own server - set it up how you like. Don't have the time, money or interest? I say, put up or shut up.
Then there's those of you who insist on calling every other player online a "n00b" and not worthy of sharing your bandwidth. Guess what folks, it's called multiplayer for a reason. Don't like the community you're stuck to play with? Go outside and fly a kite.
I swear, some of you people act like you're paying a monthly subscription fee to play MP online. Grow up.
Originally posted by scarlet
exactly, the s/o ctf community and ff duel community's concern.
Yes. Now suck it up and move on, or stop your incessant whining and calmly state what you'd like to see fixed - without flinging sh*t at the fan.
The problem is that you think you all have a right to play the game the way you want. So what if you can't play s/o CTF the way you used to - play something else if you don't like it. You didn't see people complaining when the saber's damage was lowered from JK to JO, because it was a completely new game, with new rules. And people adjusted.
Now we're here with JA, and suddenly you think it's not a new game, but rather, an "upgraded" version of JO and that means everything must work just like before. But it doesn't.
I don't know what Raven intends to do about this problem (and trust me, I can see that you have a problem), but in the meantime, I'm not going to sit on my bum and whine here all day long. As an example, because I don't care for dual and doublesabers, I'm now tempted to pick up guns. That's how it goes.
But you will not come in here and troll every-f*cking-thing in sight and behave like spoiled 13 year olds on a senseless trick-or-treat rampage. That's pathetic and solves nothing.
Oh, and here's a tip: If you want anyone to take you guys seriously (not to mention Raven), stop using those silly internet acronyms like "stfu", "u" and "gtfo".
Maybe Raven will never make another Jedi Game. I mean everybody here has their blood boiling about the ctf feature. You guys cant expect the game to be perfrect over night can you? Some of the posts only make me laugh. I cant be bothered to say which ones, but those of you probably know who you are. Go outside, drink a beer, meet with friends this game hopefully is not your life and by the time the next Jedi game comes out this one will be obsolete (shiver in your pants because hl2 is supposed to be here). I have no intention to put any of you down but come on its just a no-brainer game. Swing the saber, hope to hit. Push the guy of the ledge (ohh there are many) and get the flag. How many of you think, really think about how you SHOULD play the game, what you/your teamates should play/kill/protect, no strategy whatsoever, up to now at least.
Well, last night I played some ff/so ctf and I'm not too happy with it. Most of you people know myself or my clan (
http://x.fragism.com). From a players standpoint this game type is now very boring. I found myself running after the FC on the hoth map for the entire duration of the map. I believe I killed them perhaps 2 to 3 times before the map was over. Translation: It will be impossible for an organized returning team to return when the defending team has 1 healer and 1 energizer. Without the ability to corner a FC and knock them down it is near impossible to kill them with a easily avoided kata, etc.
Possible solutions aside from patching:
1 - Set both team heal and energize to max level 2 (or disable them all together)
2 - Consider playing a more restricted Force Type (Jedi Knight instead of Master)
3 - Design maps to be more restrictive for flag holders so there is less places to run.
Seeing as I don't like any of those solutions, my own would be patch the game when the SDK is released. I plan to add the ability to kick back into JA with the new xmod (toggled by cvar). Along with all the other features from the old xmod.
I'm sure I will catch a bunch of fire from the community, but to tell you the truth I didn't start modding for the community. I started modding to make the game work the way I thought it should. I do think there are major issues at this point with competitive play.
On another note... I love powerdueling. I think they did a great job at developing a game where this mode would be possible. I can deal w/o kicks here and I think this shows that kicking has it's place in the game types. Hopefully the SDK is released soon and I can get to work fixing the things I think need fixing. I am always up for suggestion of course.
Originally posted by =X=Master HeX
[B]I plan to add the ability to kick back into JA with the new xmod (toggled by cvar). [B]
I get the feeling it's not kick per se you want back in the game, but rather, some way to knock down an enemy - am I right?
Because if that's the case, you could just as well ask for the push and pull to knock down more frequently, or ask for an increase in saber damage altogether in s/o games that aren't duel.
Just my thoughts, good post btw.
Because if that's the case, you could just as well ask for the push and pull to knock down more frequently, or ask for an increase in saber damage altogether in s/o games that aren't duel.
The increased damage deal never sat well with me. I like to have the feeling that my saber does just as good in dueling as it does when I bring it to a ctf map.
From what I understand push/pull will knock a player down if the attacker (person who pushed) has a higher force rank then the defender (person being pushed). When the defender has absorb on it really doesn't even matter what their push/pull rank is either.
Yes, what we need is some way to knock down an enemy tho. Another large issue is the ability to spring up has become more user friendly. This makes it too easy for a knocked down person to avoid an attacker. In fact now they can return the knockdown with some good aim. I suppose this is a fair trade for removing the ability to roll to avoid certain doom.
Push pull and fc with absorb WILL NOT knowthem down, it'll slow them slightly, but power them up to speed off again. No offence, but the s/o ctf community has been playing since the release of JO. If things were as simple as pull him and he falls over, then there wouldn't be any complaints. The s/o ctf community knows whats wrong and knows what needs fixing. Not one, not one ctf player (in a clan, not anikane Wader who played ctf once) has said that JA has made ctf better, more of a challenge etc. They all say ja has RUINED s/o ctf.
To restate, we do know what we're doing and as it stands in JA, there is no way to kill an fc with an organised team.
To the push pull knockdown frequently: that just means annikane wader pull whores and constantly knocks down the fc. Kicking required skill to catch up, timing and actually hit (after the fc dodges) and also the direction. Its the the most skillful part of the game, but i reckon it takes more skill than pull whoring.
But once again...this doesn't concern other game modes. We just want the feature to choose to have the JO stuff on or off, like hex wants to do in x mod, but make it an official release patch.