Copying Luc here, none of us dare say that all the "combos" were discovered within the first few days of JO's release.

Same with JA.

Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about.

well whoop de freakin doo, So you and your little clan buddies have to find a few new moves to win. Personally, i agree with every damn post prime has made,

I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently. Now imstead if just pullin and kickin someone off a ledge, you actually have to make some type of attempt to actually slow them down and get in their way, and maybe (gasp) work as a team to defend the flag.

If you were so good and elite as you claim to be, youd simply find new tactics instead of whining about the fact that your old tactics are gone.

Originally posted by cheeto101
I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently.

Note to moron: Kicking a person off a ledge is much more effiecient then the use of the piece of **** otherwise refered to as the JKII 1.04 saber.

So please, spare me the rainstorm, because I don't want to hear it.

Originally posted by Comm539
Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine.

You really made me lose excitement on MP. Mood down.
Well Comm you are correct, some cool stuff JO had were taken away in JA, i think we ALL agree that sux and its not good at all.
But JA isnt an official expansion, it was intended to be a diferent game with a diferent gameplay, very similar to JO.
I guess we, JO players, must get used to the new gameplay and get over our dreamed expectations of the sequel of JO.
That will happen in about a month.
Just play the game with its goods and bads, seriously.
I dont want JA make the same mistake JO did.
To make new versions that are completely diferent from each other, that wasnt good, because it splited people and changed radically the gameplay and strategies.
I hope RAven release a patche to fix some bugs and other stuff, but just that.
I know how is Comm feeling because i felt the same when i tried to change from 1.2 to 1.6 in JO. You just have to get used to the game or stop playing.

wow
can you feel the love?
i can feel the love but can YOU feel the love?

ive only played power duels so far and the healing did make it tough but it was still fun

new tactics will be made and things will get better
the only thing that will stay the same is ppl bitching about things
that, no matter what is done, will never end so i really hope raven never wanted universal approval cause they will never get it
they do however have mine though...i hope that helps

but did you have someone sitting there with the sole purpose of healing you? and, MORE importantly, have you ever tried to completely avoid getting hit without fighting back (1v1 is very easy to keep dodging someone)? now think of those two things put together in an organized s/o ctf match. i mean really, think. without a dfa there will be no way to kill such an fc. my friend just played a s/o ctf match that lasted for 37 MINUTES, the score ending 0-0 (because he left). do you see what i mean? and no, it isn't too early. the fact is, saber does less damage, and the only way to make contact with an intelligent fc is by kicking them to the ground or speed and saber swing (which, with the saber damage less and most importantly dfa out of the game, is now impossible to do any permanent damage to a healed fc), and if your logic doesn't work, TRUST me on this one.

Originally posted by Comm539

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa


Hmm... were all those things discovered in 2 days? didn't think so. This isn't JO, don't expect all your little tactics to work in JA, kapeesh?

Originally posted by kazesan
I think taking out kick was a great idea. So many people thought this game was an uber kick fest and that the sabers were meaningless. Now in JA you get stronger sabers capable of wailing on someone. Noone is going to be spamming blue btw. I played a FFA server and single sabers were the minority.

The staff and dual twirls are abused and the damage scale seems slightly skewed. However I think single saber can stand up to dual and staff. Specials are going to be spammed though. You will see a twirl or a kata every 5 seconds. Of course this is because of the massive damage the moves do and the fact that they can't be blocked.

Siege mode however is awesome. No more whiny BS RPGers or amsit goons. Hoth felt like hoth. I WAS a snowtrooper taking the base. The fact that I could set up an EWEB stationary cannon whenever I wanted was also awesome. The other two maps don't seem as good as hoth, but I never quite figured out what to do in the desert, and Korriban was a frenzy.

The katas are not pointless btw. They are the best moves in the game. Many people do walk into them although you shouldn't call them n00bs seeing as how the game just came out you're a n00b too. Plus if you get 1 or 2 hits in with the kata before they get out of range then you could kill them then and there.

Its too early to make judgement calls on what is right/wrong and if it needs to be patched. I think siege is great and needs more maps and vehicles.Poweduel is also much fun. I played one ctf map with bots and it was great. I havn't played original duel yet but I will check it out today.

Just cause you don't like the game doesn't mean others don't. The game is about sabers, and saber fighting. There isn't a grip icon on the box so stop complaining.

jesus christ when i see **** like this i want to ****ing scream and rip the paint off my walls.

WE USED KICK BECAUSE IT DID MORE DAMAGE THAN ANY SABER ATTACK THAT A PLAYER WITH ANY ****ING SENSE WOULD BE HIT BY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW JACK **** ABOUT FF/SO DUELING IN JO, THEN DON'T ****ING COMMENT ON IT LIKE YOU ARE AN EXPERT. YOU DON'T SEE ME COMMENTING ON NO FORCE, DO YOU?

and the sabers are WEAKER, or havent you NOTICED.

siege does rule, though so i agree there, but i don't cream my pants because I AM A STOOORMTROOPAR!!!11 why does that make me want to watch the video of Triumph at the episode 2 premiere...? its just plain fun. (not bashing you about the stormtrooper part, i kinda had the feeling myself but thats not why i play)

the katas are useless against anyone who plays SMART. as in the ones who don't just rush in and try to whack you when you are doing them. therefore 99% of the time you won't kill anyone with half a brain, especially in duels.

just wait till you play the people who played ff/so ctf in jo for a year and a half and you won't be having so much fun, esp if you aren't the capper.

Hmm... were all those things discovered in 2 days? didn't think so. This isn't JO, don't expect all your little tactics to work in JA, kapeesh?

hmm you played a lot of competitive FULL FORCE saber only in jo, didn't you? your knowledge astounds me. why do we hate it the way it is now? BECAUSE WE CANNOT KILL IN A MATCH WHERE BOTH PARTIES ARE ACTUALLY TRYING THEIR DAMNDEST TO STAY ALIVE. you use up force, then they drain. once that happens, you cannot do ANYTHING other than the basic attacks. no kata, no lunge, no dfa, no saber throw, no NOTHING.

YOU PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT! IF YOU DON'T PLAY FF/SO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT SERIOUSLY, THEN DON'T ****ING COMMENT ON IT WITH YOUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE WHITCH DOES NOT ENCOMPASS IT. YOU DON'T SEE US TALKING ABOUT NF, NOW DO YOU?

my God, people like you make me want to bury this series in my septic tank and only play regular fps's for the rest of my life.

Originally posted by Prime
So let me get this straight. You rented Jedi Academy and played it, and thus found out that it had all these big, life-shattering problems, and decided you didn't like it. You then proceeded to head out to the store the next day and throw down a fair amount of cash for this same game you think is aweful. Dude, you stuck it to yourself this time.

Yes, I like that is is like "teh" movies, sure. It is a Star Wars game after all :) So kicks are removed. So what? Surely there are other ways to score kills. But I guess there aren't, because you have been playing the game you hate long enough to found out that there are no other options.

So your saying there is no other way than flip kicks to knock someone to the ground. How long have you been playing?

They are stronger than they are in JO FFA, that's for sure. Raven designed it so the damage is much higher in gametypes like FFA, CTF, and so on compared to Duels. Red stance as often a one-hit-kill. How much more damage do you want them to cause?

Besides, this is just a game. Of course it isn't going to be perfect and there are things not everyone is going to like. Why is it making you :ball: ? Is it preventing you from proving your are uber or something? :)

How long is someone going to be able to speed+absorb for? Their Force power is going to drop pretty quickly, especially considering any special move requires force power now.

prime i like you and all, but please stay out of the ff/so ctf discussion. you have no clue. fc's do NOT do specials when they are capping, they just run. no attacks, just running. speed + absorb = 30 force when it runs out, so enough for more absorb or protect or even in a few seconds, speed. not to mention he will 9 times out of ten, have support of healers/energizers who will do the fighting.

and no, the sabers in ffa/ctf/whatever are at the level of 1.04 jk2 duel its even lower.

Originally posted by Prime
This is exactly what is happening. The flip kick is removed, so just learn to adapt and get some new moves. Jeez. I had no problem with the kick per se, or a problem with people who used it because it was the most effective. Well, now other things will be effective. Why not take a little time to learn them. Flip kicks was not what made JO a good game.

I do not play CTF, so you will have to bare with me :) But since now the red stance is more or less a one hit kill, won't that go a long way to dealing with a speed+absorb FC?

no, there is no 1 hit kill in this game. the kata comes close, but no cigar, 2 hits usually, but who with half a brain sticks around for that?

Just to clarify a point, Me, rumour, fr33dy and traj are all from different clans. This isn't a group of 'buddies' as you like to say, we each come from different s/o ctf clans. This in itself shows that NO s/o ctf clan is happy.
Let me ask you this:

How do you kill an fc who:

Is energized 100% time with energy chain
Has speed and absorb to run away
Has a dedicated healer

As you can imagine, with only a decent fc (thats flag carrier for you prime) and with all the JO stuff the task is hard enough. Now everything's gone, replaced by a kata the job is impossible.

Let me just ask:
This is meant to be a new game. Ok, they removed all the stuff i've said before. What exactly is new?! I can think of 3 things:

1. The whoopass kata effective against people terminally stupid eniough to walk into them

2. Saber staff (which was available in JO)

3. Duel sabers (which are the new blue style to whore)

What exactly is new? Reitterating, they removed a whole lotta stuff and replaced it with ****all.
Fine if you like it in your other modes, i don't play them, so i won't comment on them. But ctf is now impossible in JA. Comprende prime?

im sure with some server cvar modifications you can increase saber damage to make them more powerful if they're as weak as you say they are...

Originally posted by Lightsaberboy
im sure with some server cvar modifications you can increase saber damage to make them more powerful if they're as weak as you say they are...

saber damage isn't the issue, we can change that easily. its the fact that the ONLY ways to kill a good fc are gone. no rage + dfa. no ground kills.

in jo when i started playing so/ctf i got pissed off because it was so easy for the better players to kill me once they knocked me down. then i played some defense and saw that it was a good thing, because otherwise there would be no way other than rage + dfa to kill them, so i realized it was balanced perfectly, and i didn't get mad in the slightest.

now its like a bunch of people in cs. one team is full of people who have no mouse to aim with, and the other team is the best in the world without hacks, but this time has aimbots and norecoil hacks. its THAT hard.

Originally posted by Comm539
Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about. Fair enough. I am a CTF "newb". You have convinced me that CTF is not a game that works correctly. I will no longer suggest you to wait and see what strategies develop. So from what you are telling me, you have 3 options:

1. Get used to the fact that JA is substantially different from JO, and learn new tactics. If no one has things like rolling to move faster, then why is it an issue? If there indeed are no tactics that will work then you (and by "you" i mean the CTF community) can...

2. Develop mods that change everything to your liking, or look at all the cvars and see what ones might help you in making the game more enjoyable for you. Or...

3. Decide that JA is not salvagable and go back to JO. The general consensis in this thread seems to be that JA CTF is not nearly as good as JO CTF. This is certainly fair to feel this way. So why not continue to play JO instead of the dumbed down JA, especially if JA makes you so upset? If you have what you want in JO and not what you want in JA, then isn't the choice obvious? Again, I'm not trying to tell you guys to get lost because we disagree and you dislike the game, I am genuinely wondering why you do not pass on JA and continue to play JO, since you definitely prefer that game. I may be ignorant about S/O CTF, but it doesn't make sense to me why you would continue to play a game you obviously don't particularly like, when the one you prefer is sitting right there. :)

I am certainly willing to discuss this calmly. But reading posts calling me ignorant and claiming that people who use dual sabers or katas are newb whores isn't addressing the issues. But I am guilty of flaming too, and I will stop. :)

One question.

The original Jedi Knight was a 2 hit saber kill...the 1.02 version of JO was a 2 hit saber kill. (i'm talking about one good hit with strong stance and one good hit with strong or medium)

No one seemed to complain about the 2 hit kill in the first JK, why start now?

Anyway people did and now we have nerfed sabers. Its your own fault.

yeah, the fault of those who bitched about it, and also the fault of us who did not let raven know that it was just fine as is (although i would have fixed a few things, like the physics and animations which were improved in 1.03 and 1.04)

Well yoda or whatever the person who started this post is.
You keep on saying state ways in which we the game can be improved. I have a suggestion. STOP PLAYING IT for a while. YOu havent noticed that in Europe the game only come out TODAY :mad: so not enough people can join. If you like clans WAIT A GOODAM While that will be your remedy. Also raven looks at these forums and looks for GOOD ideas in which to improve the game. The 1ST patch will come out in 1 month or 2 imo.

Nice you understand prime :)
But we still pla s/o ctf because similar things happened when JO was released. I believe the stuff JA adds can be valuable and certainly, the graphics and animations look a hella lot nicer than JO. All i ask is that the stuff JO had is maintained in JA ctf, along with whatever new stuff raven has implemented.
I believe that this is what the entire s/o ctf community wants...
Only by threads like these can thedevs see what we all want :)

Honestly I could post a whole bunch of quotes from people here who have said poitive or negative things, but whats the point. In JO, my clan and I played all aspects of JO. So we are all familiar with what is needed and what isn't.

All you people complaining about pull kicks, pull throw kicks, ground kills, or whatever, have your view skewd from the fact that those moves ment easy kills and victories for you. Take this away and what do you have? A player with little talent on the saber and a pissed off additude. What you fail to realize is that all these moves developed by players to get easy kills forced the rest of us to either fall victim to them or use them ourselves. This seperates the community so greatly that we get stupid debates like this.

I mean, why do you think they removed these features anyways? Its not like they spun "the wheel of gameplay features" and where ever it stopped, thats what they got rid of. They recognized these things for what they are. Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

This game was ment as a SABER COMBAT MULTIPLAYER GAME. It has a saber on the cover, not a blaster. The entire game is centered around using and getting better at the saber. If you really wanted a CTF game with guns and lame moves, go play CS.

When i played CTF, you know what i did? I tried everything, every option, to kill anyone with my saber and force skills and not use any moves like pull kick. Why would i do something like that you ask? Why would i limit myself to a set of skills that will inevitabley get me LESS kills than the average guy who runs around bunny hoping, waiting to land that perfect stream of pull kicks so the person can't even get off the ground or move before the next one comes? Hopefully you can see its a rehtorical question. Becuase the goal of the game was to get better at the saber. If my K/D ratio was 10/40, so what? At least I can say those 10 kills were made by my saber skills alone and not some ridiculous exploit.

Think of it like this: You in a movie theater and someone decides they can't see well enough. What do they do? Change seats? Ask the person in front of them to move a little? No, they stand up. The person behind them is like "What the **** man?!" and he stands up. Then a whole bunch of people who just wanted to sit and enjoy the movie are all FORCED to stand up cause they can't see anymore. Get it?

Please, just sit back and wait until Raven puts out the first patch. Did you really think it was going to be a perfect game for everyone out of the box? If you did your sadly dissalusioned. The devolpers will listen to your plee's and do what they think is in the public greatest opinion.

Flame me all you want but when it comes down to it, and your in a duel, who do you think is gonna win: The guy with unlimited skill with the saber, or the guy that used to win by using kick and grip as his primary weapons?

I'l see you out there.

Originally posted by Comm539
Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about.

Then quit with your :ball: and go back to JO if it was so much better! Why do you want them to turn this new game into the old one when you already have the old one. You are just some spoiled little punk that probably got his ass handed to him in MP so it must be the games fault. You sound like a broken record.

Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

Let me laugh for a second... Pull kicking is an exploit?

I never commented on how good bad the removal of feauteres was for other game types. tw, s/o means saber only, not guns or blasters...just so you understand that man.

Seems you never pull kick, then please i invite you to name your clan. Lets see if anybodies heard of it and lets see if its successful. With no pks, the answer is a no. The pk's gk's ptk's weren't easy victories. With just a decent fc, and just an energiser or healer, things were extremely hard in JO. Now in JA, things are impossible. It's IMPOSSIBLE to kill someone who doesn't want to fight and runs away with merely a saber, even more so when they have a healer to. This is why the entire s/o ctf community is united to bring back the JO features for JA s/o ctf.

And barresm, i want to play JA, but i don't see why they had to deevolve the game becuase people couldn't compete with other players. Back to s/o ctf, the graphics and fanbase will move to JA. Thats why i want the JO feautres kept in JA, along with the new feauters...even if it is just for s/o ctf. At least give servers the option whether to turn the feauters oin or not.

Originally posted by MOTL Robinton
Honestly I could post a whole bunch of quotes from people here who have said poitive or negative things, but whats the point. In JO, my clan and I played all aspects of JO. So we are all familiar with what is needed and what isn't.

All you people complaining about pull kicks, pull throw kicks, ground kills, or whatever, have your view skewd from the fact that those moves ment easy kills and victories for you. Take this away and what do you have? A player with little talent on the saber and a pissed off additude. What you fail to realize is that all these moves developed by players to get easy kills forced the rest of us to either fall victim to them or use them ourselves. This seperates the community so greatly that we get stupid debates like this.

I mean, why do you think they removed these features anyways? Its not like they spun "the wheel of gameplay features" and where ever it stopped, thats what they got rid of. They recognized these things for what they are. Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

This game was ment as a SABER COMBAT MULTIPLAYER GAME. It has a saber on the cover, not a blaster. The entire game is centered around using and getting better at the saber. If you really wanted a CTF game with guns and lame moves, go play CS.

When i played CTF, you know what i did? I tried everything, every option, to kill anyone with my saber and force skills and not use any moves like pull kick. Why would i do something like that you ask? Why would i limit myself to a set of skills that will inevitabley get me LESS kills than the average guy who runs around bunny hoping, waiting to land that perfect stream of pull kicks so the person can't even get off the ground or move before the next one comes? Hopefully you can see its a rehtorical question. Becuase the goal of the game was to get better at the saber. If my K/D ratio was 10/40, so what? At least I can say those 10 kills were made by my saber skills alone and not some ridiculous exploit.

Think of it like this: You in a movie theater and someone decides they can't see well enough. What do they do? Change seats? Ask the person in front of them to move a little? No, they stand up. The person behind them is like "What the **** man?!" and he stands up. Then a whole bunch of people who just wanted to sit and enjoy the movie are all FORCED to stand up cause they can't see anymore. Get it?

Please, just sit back and wait until Raven puts out the first patch. Did you really think it was going to be a perfect game for everyone out of the box? If you did your sadly dissalusioned. The devolpers will listen to your plee's and do what they think is in the public greatest opinion.

Flame me all you want but when it comes down to it, and your in a duel, who do you think is gonna win: The guy with unlimited skill with the saber, or the guy that used to win by using kick and grip as his primary weapons?

I'l see you out there.

ff/so duel. how do you kill? by using high damage combos. why? they can drain back any hit you land on them.

and it is about the saber AND the force.

i'm sure that if you played cs, then you would just use your knife so that you could limit yourself there, right?

competitive players play to WIN, not to limit themselves. if i play q3, i'm not going to use jsut the machine gun because the rocket launcher can kill in 1-2 hits or the bfg is a 1 hit kill, and therefore take less skill (haha yeah right, less skill my ass)

i don't know why i'm even bothering to say this, but i will anyways:

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF, but two things in this argument jump out at me. first, some people are complaining that they can no longer kill a flag carrier who has a dedicated escort or two (or three). am i the only one who finds this reasonable? why should you be able to one-shot a guy who has three other guys protecting him? here's a novel idea... why don't YOU bring three guys with you when you go after him? do some man-to-man coverage, each of you taking care of one of the runners. seems simple enough to me.

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.

Originally posted by cheeto101
well whoop de freakin doo, So you and your little clan buddies have to find a few new moves to win. Personally, i agree with every damn post prime has made,

I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently. Now imstead if just pullin and kickin someone off a ledge, you actually have to make some type of attempt to actually slow them down and get in their way, and maybe (gasp) work as a team to defend the flag.

If you were so good and elite as you claim to be, youd simply find new tactics instead of whining about the fact that your old tactics are gone.

This all sounds like you know what you're talking about. Of course anyone who actually DOES know what they're talking about would know that you don't know ****. It sounded cute though.

'Slow them down and get in their way'. rofl. Great idea. Try PLAYING CTF before you comment on it please.

Here comes the FC speeding at me. OK, i'll pull him to slow him down. **** he has absorb on I just gave him more force. Now he is jumping over me, I guess I'll pull him again. **** I just gave him more force. Maybe I'll try swinging my saber when he lands. **** he pushed me and sped off. I'd love to chase him, but my force is gone from the 2 pulls and the saber combo I tried on him so I have no force left for speed. I think I can hear the FC laughing all the way back to base. It's ok though, becaus my team's FC has just made an equally easy get away from my enemy's base. Now all we have to do is make sure he isn't stupid enough to walk into a kata, give him an energizer and a healer and we have our stalemate.

Sounds like fun!

Originally posted by Rumor
yeah, the fault of those who bitched about it, and also the fault of us who did not let raven know that it was just fine as is (although i would have fixed a few things, like the physics and animations which were improved in 1.03 and 1.04) I agree completely. 1.02 was fine gameplay wise, and only bugs like the DFA collision detection and so on really needed fixing.

Originally posted by aXoe
The 1ST patch will come out in 1 month or 2 imo. I don't think that there is an garruntee that there will even be a patch. Raven took a pile of heat with the patches of JO, and they saw how it divided the community. I would think they would be much more hesitant to release a patch this time.

Originally posted by Comm539
All i ask is that the stuff JO had is maintained in JA ctf, along with whatever new stuff raven has implemented. I just hope that if those changes are once again added, that it is only to CTF. Personally, I don't want those thinks coming back to duels and FFAs. To each his own, I guess :)

Originally posted by darth_michael
i don't know why i'm even bothering to say this, but i will anyways:

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF, but two things in this argument jump out at me. first, some people are complaining that they can no longer kill a flag carrier who has a dedicated escort or two (or three). am i the only one who finds this reasonable? why should you be able to one-shot a guy who has three other guys protecting him? here's a novel idea... why don't YOU bring three guys with you when you go after him? do some man-to-man coverage, each of you taking care of one of the runners. seems simple enough to me.

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.


sorry but im rofl. Just send 3 people after him. well duh, how come i never thought of that. You admitr yourself you know nothing about ctf so please don't comment and please under stand s/o = SABER ONLY not machine guns.

Originally posted by darth_michael

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF

exactly

Originally posted by Comm539
sorry but im rofl. Just send 3 people after him. well duh, how come i never thought of that. You admitr yourself you know nothing about ctf so please don't comment and please under stand s/o = SABER ONLY not machine guns.

yeah, why didn't i think of that myself :confused:

maybe its because there are usually more that go after the fc, than just three, but it only takes 2 escort to hold them off?

well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

Originally posted by darth_michael

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.

obi-wan didn't bitch when maul killed qui-gon in waht would, in jk2/jk3, would be a "lamer move". he just kicked his ass and was done with it.

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

Jesus H Christ, the idiots and utterly CLUELESS are filing out of the woodwork.

Yeah, we're lame. We decided to use moves that actually made a dent in people, and not have it all drained back.

Bot no, instead of picking up on the moves, you decided to sit back and bitch like people did here in 1.02. And 1.03. And then 1.04 came and destroyed a few things, forcing us to use moves like the grip kick to be competitive.

Now it comes back in full circle, and therefore I relay this advice to you: STFU.

EDIT: By the ****ing way, we happen to be on the engine of a FPS, therefore this is an FPS game. If you don't understand what that means, uninstall JA and bury it right about... NOW. Within that respects, STFU as well. Bloody pissants, the lot of you.

Originally posted by w1p
well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

no, more like there is NO winning or losing with the competitive players in ff/so. it is just a ****ing deadlock unless someone is better at level 2 lightning/drain in duels.

If this game isn't meant to give the player a quick frag, then how do you expect people to play CTF? or FFA, or TFFA?

If this game is meant to be for SABER ONLY battles, why did they bother to include CTF, FFA or TFFA as the choices of gameplay. Why not just make the only MP option dueling?

In s/o CTF how do you expect someone to kill the flag carrier if sabers don't do enough damage? With force powers like heal, team heal, and energize, it makes it EXTREMELY difficult.

Originally posted by w1p
well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

You obviously dont play FF/SO CTF, and if you had actually read the posts before yours you might see that were talking about FF S/O CTF and FF duels.

The force powers are meant to revolve around the saber battles? Who are you to say? Yoda and Dooku started with a force battle and then switched to sabers. I figured a RPG fanboy like you would know that, cmon.

You like saber battles? Great, try NF duels. They're just to your liking.

You like guns? Great, have a ball. The guns in the game are fine and fun.

You like Siege? Great, I hear its fun.

You like FFA? Great, more power to you.

You like FF/SO CTF or FF Duels? Sorry, you're ****ed.

You guys have all the things you need to make your particular online gaming experience in this game wirthwhile for you. We don't. Our game modes have been ruined and all we want is a couple of fixes. So spare me the cheap kill, exploit, generic, predictable newbie jibber jabber.

And Prime, why should we have to go back to JO? I want to play here because they have newer maps, nicer graphics, and a larger community. I just want to make sure that RAVEN hears from our side of the community this time around and not just the you know whos.

Maybe cvars will be able to fix all of this, I really hope so. But until then, they need to hear that they've made at least 2 game modes in JA worse than JO.

Not different, worse.

We just want to be able to play the game types that we enjoy. As it is now, playing them and enjoying them at the same time do not go hand in hand.

who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?

Rad Blackrose, you do realize that your last post was completely incoherent, right? if you're going to type out an angry rant like that, at least make it remotely understandable. i have no idea what you just said.

anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.

anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.

and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

Holy crap. It's not like gk pk ptk pt and all that are invincible moves. They can be countered. And doing a kata is pretty much suicidal if you're playing against a decent player in a duel. You do your pretty kata, and walks behind you and starts slashing you in the ass. Duels are going to be waaaaay too long. "Oh look, I cut you with my saber." "Hey d00d, I just drained it all back." "Oh crap, you hit me, but I just drained it back too." "Hey, I have an idea, let's read a book while we're trying to finish our duel." I don't even want to think about chasing an fc in ff s/o ctf. I'd be praying for him to fall down a hole or something.

Wow, shame on us for using the moves that the developers put in the game to kill people who aren't smart/skilled enough to do it themselves or counter it.

Rad made perfect sense.

As long as they fix CTF and FF duel, I dont care about anything else. This has been my point the whole time. If you are a NF Duelist this thread is not here for you. No point in coming here to talk smack about us dirty, cheap, exploit players.

You want to play NF duels? Fine. If you like them the way they are, great.

OUR game mode is ****ed up. But you wouldn't know anything about it because you dont even play it. So don't bother posting.

Originally posted by darth_michael
who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?

Rad Blackrose, you do realize that your last post was completely incoherent, right? if you're going to type out an angry rant like that, at least make it remotely understandable. i have no idea what you just said.

anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.

anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.

and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

to be brutally honest, we play saber only for a reason. its a huge (and pleasant) change in pace and gameplay compared to the other games we play. the force adds a whole nother dimension as well.

the only difference between us is the fact that we want to win as often as we can, and will use ALL the tools that we can. we do like the starwarsy ****, but we are more concerned that it is a fun experience, and gameplay is what makes a game fun, not the best darth maul skin or the dool of teh fatez maps (tho they are nice, just not primary concerns.)

Originally posted by darth_michael

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.
Explain to me how a s/o CTF match is anything like a Quake CTF match? Why don't I go play quake? it doesn't have sabers or force powers, that's why. I play SABER ONLY, FULL FORCE CTF. If I wanted to shoot at people I would play Quake (or w/e). The point is we enjoy playing s/o ff CTF, which is not really possible anymore.


and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

As I recall, someone did get kicked. Obi-Wan I believe. Ohh, but they put that kick into the game, so I guess its ok since it's in line with the movies.

Originally posted by darth_michael


but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone.

instead you fanboys bitched and moaned all through outcast to the point that the devs actually listened to you, and took a game that had awesome and unique gameplay and turned it into mirc with a fancy gui



and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

i also didn't see darth maul stand there for 10 seconds doing a kata or use drain. but that won't stop you from using them, right. btw, thank your for your expert move-by-move analysis of the final battle. if you really want to jump around doing acrobatics with a light saber, may i suggest you meet up with the star wars kid?

OK everyone. Calm down. That's right. Take 5 deep, slow breaths. Good. That's it. Just CALM DOWN. You people need to stop the flaming here, or several of you WILL be banned, and a mod WILL close this thread.

However, I must say: if you like this game for the Star Wars atmosphere it has, play SP. It's about STAR WARS, and saber battles. If you want WIN against OTHER PEOPLE then MP is for you. Please, if you like the STAR WARS feel, do not expect other people in MP to care about it. Most MP players want to win- myself included.

mods please don't close, people just need to vent. once they do they start being extremely constructive. (and i haven't seen anything that warrants a lock, yet)

Originally posted by boinga1
OK everyone. Calm down. That's right. Take 5 deep, slow breaths. Good. That's it. Just CALM DOWN. You people need to stop the flaming here, or several of you WILL be banned, and a mod WILL close this thread.

However, I must say: if you like this game for the Star Wars atmosphere it has, play SP. It's about STAR WARS, and saber battles. If you want WIN against OTHER PEOPLE then MP is for you. Please, if you like the STAR WARS feel, do not expect other people in MP to care about it. Most MP players want to win- myself included.

Well said.

If you wanna argue, take it to msn. This isnt the place for flaming.

I felt rather let down by the un-star wars feel of jk2. It just felt more like a q3 deathmatch or a game of counter-strike. Hopefully JA mp will be different.

This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.

Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.

Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.

Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.

Any person just starting the game was capable of countering those "lame" moves on the list it just had to be known what the counter for each move was. In any game, using your opponents ignorance against them is referred to as "skill." Is it our fault for using moves that were INTENDED to be used against other opponents.

Originally posted by kazesan
This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.

Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.

Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.

Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.

stay out of the discussion if you know nothing about so/ctf, and have no desire to see it improved.

We're all 2 sides of the same coin here. People may have misconstrewd what i was trying to say. Most people who are upset about the loss of pull-kick, etc..... are most likely the people who are spamming it and when they found they couldn't use their ownly effective weapong, they freaked. And i don't mean that pull-kick ITSELF is an exploit, i mean that it is used as an exploit by those who spam and use during a 1 on 1 duel in an over excessive manner.

However, i completely understand the frustration of those, like Rumor i'm assuming, who use these attacks in a contructive manner that befits the game type (i.e. CTF).

The game is about using Force and Saber. Even though i don't use powers like drain or rage (I stay all light, all the time), I will not cry about it because these are features that belong in the game. Each force has a counter. Your being drained? maybe you should try using absorb. You like playing dark? then find some other way around it, like not getting drained.

In any case, my point was not to start another argument, but to end it and not to get a rise out of any pro/con kick people. There is nothing we can do about it now anyways until Raven decides to take action and start the patching. Until then, lets all try and remain civil about these kind of issues.

Originally posted by w1p
BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like. Great. You are certainly entitled to play the game the way and for the reasons you want. But don't expect everyone else to all cater to the way you want to play. Playing for competative reasons is just as valid as anything else. I play for fun, but I like to get frags too, since that is the point of the game, after all. Demanding people play a certain way is what led to all that saber down = peace nonsense. :)

Originally posted by Rumor
prime i like you and all, but please stay out of the ff/so ctf discussion. you have no clue. fc's do NOT do specials when they are capping, they just run. no attacks, just running. speed + absorb = 30 force when it runs out, so enough for more absorb or protect or even in a few seconds, speed. not to mention he will 9 times out of ten, have support of healers/energizers who will do the fighting. I know this was an earlier post, but I wanted to respond anyway :) I have admitted that indeed I do not know much about CTF. I originally got into this thread because I sounded to me like another rant that things were different, and so on. Once the discussion got more specific about CTF, and more people commented on seeing similar problems, I began to realize that I had made a mistake and that perhaps I really was commenting on something that I didn't have enough knowledge of, and that perhaps there really were issues with this gametype. There are still a few things that I disagree with, and I'm not yet convinced that there won't be new effective stretegies, but I am still trying to listen better to what they have to say. I admit that I jumped the gun, and will try to stay out of the CTF-specific debate. :)

Originally posted by traj
And Prime, why should we have to go back to JO? I want to play here because they have newer maps, nicer graphics, and a larger community. I just want to make sure that RAVEN hears from our side of the community this time around and not just the you know whos. I'm not saying you should go back to JO, I was asking why you don't (and you gave an answer). It just seemed to me that you guys are very unhappy with JA, and that JO is what you want. Playing with nicer graphics, new maps, and so is important too. But for the time being, you'll either have to increase the saber damage, decide that the nicer graphics and new maps are more important, or that the grip-kick, etc. is more important.

I can certainly understand why Raven wanted to get rid of those things. They set out to make a Star Wars game, and grip-kicking isn't a part of that (regardless of how effective it is). But certainly, they have to make sure that the gametypes are playable.

I have no problem with you expressing your views and trying to be heard. That is your perogative. But it is also my perogative to try to make sure that the things that I like about the game are not altered. I am very happy with JA right now, and after JO I am very fearful about the release of patches. IMO they have done more harm than good. Personally, I like this game because of the Star Wars elements, and I was somewhat turned off that the JO became a grip-kick fest. I recognize that competative players are going to use any means necessary, and that's fine. But I guess I was dissappointed that the best means turned out to be grip-kick (or any of the others). I'd rather have the lightsaber be the most effective thing for sabers-only games. Do you see what I'm saying? I am no longer trying to argue about CTF issues, because I realize that perhaps I do not know enough to comment. But I will try and defend my point of view :)

Originally posted by traj
Maybe cvars will be able to fix all of this, I really hope so. But until then, they need to hear that they've made at least 2 game modes in JA worse than JO. I think it is definitely worth trying to go down that avenue than putting grip-kick, etc. back in via patch. If sabers were a one hit kill, would that make things much better, and would it be a reasonable alternative?