This question has been building up inside of me, and I can't hold it down any longer. Does the mod team plan on using HapSlash's Imperial Navy Trooper as the Imperial Commando rather than Corto's? (No offense, Corto) Since Corto's model uses the now-obsolete original Imperial Officer model, I think it would only make sense to use Hap's.

Well, actually, since the Commando/Navy Trooper (whatever you want to call him) doesn't wear the same uniform as the Officer, that's not really too large an issue.

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David Aspmo

They actually have about the same uniform as the officer. They just have the helmet instead of a hat, a holster, belt boxes, gloves, and Imperial symbols on the sleeves. And minus the rank bar and code cylinders. They both have the "baggy pants" look that Hap has created, and Hap's model just looks better in general. (the face looks great, Hap, and if you change it, I may never forgive you) The only thing is that Hap's doesn't have the commando goggles that Corto's has, but I think it looks better without the goggles even if it is inaccurate for a commando. (it's accurate for a navy trooper, so don't add goggles)

BTW, Hap, I left a post in your website thread, you may not have been notified. Check it out... HapSlash's Website - UPDATED (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101572&perpage=40&pagenumber=3)

Well, they don't actually have the same "baggy pants" as the officers. Also the front of the uniform is tailored slightly differently - but that and a lot of what you mentioned are fairly simple alterations to the skin - and Corto's already has all of that (I should know - I made the torso part of the skin). It also has the helmet and holster - though it seems Corto never went ahead and changed the gloves for some reason (don't know why, they're accounted for in the skin), or maybe I just never manged to get the latest version.

Incidentally, I never found any instances in the films of Commandos/Navy Troopers (there's a difference now?) actually wearing goggles. That seems to have been something the Dark Forces artists took upon themselves to include. You know, when I think about it, the DF sprite is at such a low resolution, I always thought it was a visor.

Anyway, my point was just that a lot of what Hap did to his improved officer model wouldn't apply to the Commando. If he were to improve upon the standard model body for the Commando, it would be with different alterations. I can't honestly think of anything significant enough to warrant the effort, but Hap likely has different standards and it's certainly not unheard of for him to go above and beyond that way.

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David Aspmo

I can't see a reason to go back and replace a perfectly good model (by Corto) with another version by another modeler on the team. The modelers on the team aren't competing against each other on these things.

Hap is very into making his own versions of the models. I wouldn't be surprised if he made a Dark Trooper Phase 1 just to do it. That doesn't mean that we'd remove Corto's version and put his in.

The Commando is finished and isn't going to change - hope that answers your question.

Why not have a mixture of both; it adds greater variety to the game.

Originally posted by David Aspmo
Well, they don't actually have the same "baggy pants" as the officers... It also has the helmet and holster

Yes, they did have the baggy pants. I can get pictures to prove it. And Corto's didn't have belt boxes or a holster. All it was was a reskined Stormtrooper Officer with a helmet instead of a hat. And I would like it if Corto's commando had facial animations like Hap's will have. I hate it when people talk with a closed mouth.

Yes, they did have the baggy pants. I can get pictures to prove it.

Let's see 'em, cause I'm looking at the films when I say that they did not have the same pants as the officers.

And Corto's didn't have belt boxes or a holster.

It had a holster didn't it?

*checks*

Huh. I thought it had a holster - it was supposed to have a holster (but I guess it was supposed to have different gloves too *shrugs*). And while the belt boxes weren't exactly standard issue, since they were on the DF sprite, I'd agree that they should probably be on the model.

At any rate, for right now it sounds like Dave wants us to move on to stuff that hasn't been done at all, rather that hash through things that have been done once already. Maybe (hopefully) we can come back to it later.

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David Aspmo

This pic shows that they had loose sleeves like Hap's and not like the skin-tight officer...
http://swtroopers.com/imp_costumes/dstcap24.jpg)

You can see how the pants are stuffed into the top of the boot here...
http://swtroopers.com/imp_costumes/imp_dst_boots1.jpg)

Here you can see the lower part of the trooper, and as you can see, his pants are not as skin-tight as the original officer...
http://swtroopers.com/imp_costumes/imp_dst_boots5.jpg)

Another loose sleeves shot...
http://swtroopers.com/imp_costumes/imp_dst_blaster2.jpg)

It doesn't matter they both look good and in the Demo it did the job of a reasonable believable version of the Imperial Commando in the demo; however just have them both in if it isn't much trouble.

On an off topic I seriously doubt this will be out by Xmas 2003; I believe it will be out around Easter 2004 by the earliest if more mappers come on the team; but I think it will be out in Summer 2004.

I don't know but you said you need more mappers and seeing as the move to JA will have some sort of impact and I wanted to say this because I'm tired.

Well, yes, certainly the Commando uniforms tended to be loose fitting in general. But, of course, what we were talking about (or at least I was) was them having the same kind of pants as the officers - meaning that they would have had those pouch-like things on their outer thighs (which is why "baggy pants" was always in quotes).

The pants on the Reborn outfits were meant to appear loose fiting as well, but Raven still used the same standard human model legs as their basis. So, by Raven's standards, Corto's Commando is sufficient in this regard.

However, as I said towards the beginning of the thread, Hap likely has different standards. As I also said, though, the alterations made for his improved officer model aren't necessarily appropriate for the Commando.

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David Aspmo

i would be fine with them using either model, just as long as it gets released

honestly, who gives a (insert expletive or exclamation here)?

Hap's INT is much more detailed and accurate, so I would just prefer that the mod use the better model. If not, the commando will talk through a closed mouth, be missing his holster, gloves, and belt boxes, and have skin-tight clothes. I give a (something), ImmolatedYoda.

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Hap's INT is much more detailed and accurate, so I would just prefer that the mod use the better model. If not, the commando will talk through a closed mouth, be missing his holster, gloves, and belt boxes, and have skin-tight clothes. I give a (something), ImmolatedYoda.

I don't care much for the tone of your post. Please show a little more respect.

Keep in mind that the creators of both models put a lot of time and effort into making their Imp Commando models. I like them both. I mean, I don't even know how to change colors on models or skins! The Count has a noteworthy idea putting both into the game. I just hope that the mod will be completed someday.

I think this whole thing is a mute point at this time.

When I last checked, the mod still had a couple of models that haven't been worked on yet. So, until they have been, we will probably focus on getting those started before worrying about updating the models that have already been made.


And technically, right now I don't even have a model. It's just a pieced together incomplete 3D mesh with a few textures on it.

Corto's Imperial Commando is pretty good, the textures look nice in-game, but most important is the fact that it's actually finished.

Corto's one also has Sun Glasses and they look very cool as a result of it.

Bla bla bla, lol.

Hi Hap, hi David, long time since I posted here.

Anyway, I have a revamp of my old navy trooper model, with a more accurate helmet, precise gloves and the holster. The goggles ar there only bcuz the game had navy troopers with goggles, i donґt like them either.

The dark trooper has consumed me a lot of time, also did an ATAT Iґve been making for the Dark Forces 2 Enhanced mod and CRACKING THE ANIMATIONS ISSUE... Though it was for nothing, cuz now JA is out...

Off Topic: JAґs recently so called modeling tools is just a bunch of crap, just try importing any of the dotXSI files included in it with 3dsmax and get back to me =).

Sometimes I think Raven is teasing us (the modding community, not the players). But is just my thought.

Hey Hap, the mohc skin is amazing, one question or gripe, i thought he was fatter than that? though the face is amazzzzzing

I like Hap's just cause it's Hap's. But Corto has some great models and his is just fine. It's all a matter of taste I guess. Everyone will have their own opinion. You could just download Hap's and edit the mod's files to edit the models in the folders to suite your tastes ;)

Iґll show new pics of the WIP on the teamґs website as soon as I have something presentable. Right now the UV maps are all messed up cuz Iґve been cutting and arraging polygons.
For those who like the goggles, or thing they are cool, youґll love the new ones =).

Are you planning on giving him mouth animations? Would be nice although you will rarely see them talking. Just when they yell rebel scum and stuff...

Do the mouths of the models animate when they are speaking in the middle of the game? I've never noticed.

Me neither. Anyway, Iґm planning to weight the lip just for the fun of it (if thereґs any fun on it).
I guess The_One is gonna update the website soon with new pics of the navy trooper, that should give you something to talk about, for good or bad.

Originally posted by HapSlash
Do the mouths of the models animate when they are speaking in the middle of the game? I've never noticed.
they defintately do in multiplayer.

Originally posted by t3rr0r
they defintately do in multiplayer. That's weird because nobody uses mouth animations in multiplayer. Are you talking about Jedi Outcast?

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
That's weird because nobody uses mouth animations in multiplayer.
watch when people use taunt.

Are you talking about Academy? I don't have it (yet) and I'm 100% certain that people in Outcast MP don't have moving mouths. They die with their eyes open too.

-_-

I do believe he is talking about JO.

Okay, I got Jedi Academy, and YES! People do move their mouth when they taunt! Very cool. :cool:

Originally posted by The_Mega_ZZTer
I do believe he is talking about JO.
seeing as dfmod is now for ja, i was hoping it would be obvious that i wasn't talking about jo.

and yeah, ain't it cool, tk?

Muy gracioso, this thread has gone off-topic, like every thread in Lucas Forums =).

The navy trooper mesh is done and weighted, I'm now waiting for StormHammer's skin and the navy trooper is ready. LODs and team support will come later, since is not critical.
At least is not necessary to show you the new one, =P.