Originally posted by StormHammer
Well, that fits in nicely with the battle sequence in the movie. ;)

And it occurs to me...couldn't you simply swap out the swoop bike models for the Air Speeders instead? That would rock, especially if you could make them 2-man flyers, with a tow-cable, to take down the AT-ATs.


That would work if you made the speeder big enough to clip over the player so hes not on top of it...but that would look weird if he swung his saber.

making them carry two people and have a tow cable is asking to much.. but we can dream.............

The vehicle code is supposed to be really flexible, so speeders and AT-ATs shouldn't be a problem, even with passengers.

Tow cables, unfortunately, I don't think so. I'm not sure about the rope physics that would be needed. However, the AT-ATs have other weaknesses, even exploitable by snowspeeders and anti-vehicle cannons, so that's likely how you'll defeat them. As of now, I doubt the AT-ATs are going to respawn, because then the Rebels would never win. :)

You can help, actually. First of all, comments and suggestions should go here (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109475). I'm always open to suggestions, comments, and emotional support. :)

Second, I could use any blueprints, floor plans, concept art, anything about the inside of Echo Base.

Originally posted by Emon
You can help, actually. First of all, comments and suggestions should go here (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109475). I'm always open to suggestions, comments, and emotional support. :)

Second, I could use any blueprints, floor plans, concept art, anything about the inside of Echo Base.

Then I'll have a good hunt around and see what I can come up with. ;) And I'll be sure to post all relevant comments in that thread. :)

From what I can see, you've already made good progress.

Emon, I saw the terrain over on massassi. May I say, thats incredibly beautiful.

Will it be a survival mission for the rebels, i.e survive long enough for the transports to escape, while the imperials take out the key points (shield gen, ion cannon)

Or are you not that far into the planning process?

The way I envisoned using drivable vehicles (purely conceptual now, no actual coding) in JK1 was to have one person "turn into" the model (the driver.. that is, he presses "use" on the model of the empty vehicle and he "becomes" a model of the vehicles with a built in model of himself with the appropriate skin sitting in the cockpit... and the original model of the empty vehicle disappears) and while this is in place, the model is "solid" so that other players can "get inside" (through an openable hatch.. which is like a door script) and then they will just be "contained" inside).

This would work great for the troop carrier (just make the AT-ST model hollow enough so that some players could fit inside, with a door script to open the side so they can jump out). It wouldn't be identical to the movie of course, because the AT-AT's we saw had three people manning them (two drivers and one commander) and even the AT-ST's had two drivers. The Snowspeeder would probably be a one man deal, unless you wanted the second pilot to just sit in the cockpit and do nothing.

Unless of course you micromanaged it even further, by putting a switch in a tiny spot for the second pilot to hit with the "use" key (without accidentally opening the hatch script) so he could fire.

The tow cable could be like the grappling hook, which no doubt exists in some Q3 engine game's mod. Of course it wouldn't be as perfect as the tow cables wrapping around in complex circles about the AT-AT's legs (and making it fall over), unless it was just a cutscene of it happening after you successfully fire the thing for example (to make it look realistic).

Of course with the ridable code, things may be different, since you seem to have use of your other weapons and things while "in the saddle."

Perhaps a two man ship could be done thusly:

The ship model is really two models "joined together" so that each one is treated as a seperate drivable vehicle. But they are "linked" so that when one moves, so does the other. To avoid having two players fighting over who controls it, you could disable movement for the "gunner" person and firing for the "pilot" person. Then again, what if one player gets killed (since half the vehicle could be destroyed this way)? It would be like Luke.. he can drive, but not fly. If Luke gets killed, then Hobby (?) will crash because he can only fire.

In this way, it could also be operated part way... meaning you could "activate" the gunner part of the ship only and be on the ground shooting. Or you could activate the driver part only and fly the ship (dragging the "gunner" part along with you) but not be able to shoot anything.

This solution may be too complex for the engine, or it may be done easier in some other way, but it's just some ideas about how you could logically solve the problem as I see it.

The easier way of course would be to do what others have suggested, and simply sacrafice realism in favor of having what are basically flying speeder bikes (and just make the model such that any weapons in the player's hands won't stick out) or flying AT-ST's (drivable, rather than ridable vehicle).

Isn't there a Hoth stage in the SP game? Since there is, then the MP map would probably be similar, and since this game takes place about ten years after RotJ, I'd assume the Rebel base would be a bit weathered. That would probably explain why it's not an exact representation of the movie Hoth.

Anywho, I hope the classes are balanced in Siege, and I wonder what type of variety there is. Will it be the same classes for every stage, or will the classes change depending? Personally, I'd prefer the latter. Assuming you went with random maps, different classes would force people to change their tactics, and keep the battles a bit more interesting. I don't know, theme based classes seem to be the way to go.

Either way, I'm highly anticipating trying out this new MP mode.

Originally posted by lonepadawan
Emon, I saw the terrain over on massassi. May I say, thats incredibly beautiful.

Will it be a survival mission for the rebels, i.e survive long enough for the transports to escape, while the imperials take out the key points (shield gen, ion cannon)

Or are you not that far into the planning process?

Thanks. Yes, it will be survivable. I posted some rough objectives on the mapping showcase thread here, check that out.

Kurgan, that sounds incredibly too complex even to read! :) All they would have to do is bolt the player model onto the vehicle model (a tag on the model would be used to position it). Infact, a similar method was possible in JK, but never used.

I definately think siege mode will be the best i never really got into jk2's multiplayer because it was pointless to me. Duels were good for a while and some ctf but in team games it didnt play like a team, it was too hard to communicate, if any of you have played et or rctw theres a system of voice commands that are really useful they would have made jk2 far easier to play as a team, i hope they come with ja. i suppose i like objective based maps the best they are the most fun, and need teamwork. I think any online fps game should have objective maps and a class system, just to encourage teamwork, i loved et, now star wars et with vehicles!!:eek: its going to be the best mode!!

Does anyone know if the maps have predefined skins?, like if u were for rebels on hoth u have to wear a rebel snowsuit or if you are imperial you have to wear a snowtroopers suit??, you can see that in the screenshot but im not sure. It makes sense because i wouldnt want to see a tusken raider engineer on hoth. Im sure jedi skins can be generic though.

Originally posted by Tie Pilot
Does anyone know if the maps have predefined skins?, like if u were for rebels on hoth u have to wear a rebel snowsuit or if you are imperial you have to wear a snowtroopers suit??, you can see that in the screenshot but im not sure. It makes sense because i wouldnt want to see a tusken raider engineer on hoth. Im sure jedi skins can be generic though.

Well, we don't know yet if the skins are preset, but I agree that it would make a lot more sense. I would have no problem at all with being allocated a particular skin for the class I have chosen, because it would increase the 'realism' of that scenario. Furthermore, having clearly identifiable skins associated with each class will help players to see who is the 'tech' and who is the 'heavy weapons' specialist, at a glance. I consider this important in team-based play, so players can make no mistakes about the kind of backup they have at any point in the map. The Jedi will obviously be more readily identifiable because of their lightsaber...but other classes need this kind of distinctive 'marker'.

Even if this is not the case, however, there is always the opportunity for a mod crew to take this kind of thing on board, for use in 'authentic re-enactments' of particular battles, like this one on Hoth.

Another conceptual idea for a two-pilot vehicle:

Going along with the "two models linked" idea... the vehicle the "gunner" turns into is like a ridable vehicle that encases his body, but in addition it has a "bonus pickup" (like the Eweb Cannon) that forces him to switch to a new weapon (the ship's gun) with its own ammo. That way he can freely shoot while the other person drives.

Obviously Raven has already figured out how they are going to do this, but if it's not already there, that is another way I can see it happening.

So essentially a 2 person Snowspeeder would be:

Speeder Bike + Eweb cannon

For a two passenger speeder... i think Kurgan has the right idea about the first part..turning the character model into the speeder.

For the second part...the passenger gunner one could simply turn the passenger invisible and allowing him the use of his blaster, positionning him facing backwards and staticon on top/inside the snowspeeder. If that's feasable then one could try to change the firemode of the gunner... maybe givving him the equivalent of the JO mounted turrets.

If you want to go any further in this, the speeder could be affected by inertia but not gravity responding also to the jump and crouch commands as raise and lower altitude.

I'm not sure... but I think the frontal cannons are fired by the pilot and not the gunner... meaning the pilot wont be defenseless on it's own.

Originally posted by Tie Pilot
it was too hard to communicate, if any of you have played et or rctw theres a system of voice commands that are really useful they would have made jk2 far easier to play as a team, i hope they come with ja. i suppose i like objective based maps the best they are the most fun, and need teamwork. I think any online fps game should have objective maps and a class system, just to encourage teamwork, i loved et, now star wars et with vehicles!! its going to be the best mode!!


I had the problem of not being able to give commands quickly in JK2 until I made some bind scripts that when a button was pushed a message was displayed to people (teammates or all people). Its pretty simple stuff and easy to utilize in teamwork situations (even though ET has commands, I find it easier to use specific bind scripts for each map).

Obj. based gameplay owns. I am glad JA is introducing it to the JK series.

The possibility of creating classes is great!

Yeah, Kurgan, you can already bolt models onto stuff in JO, so it won't be long before all sorts of mods take advantage of vehicles in JA.

Aye, hopefully someone makes Luke's speeder from Ep 4. That would be sweet!

Dang it, I was about to preorder Half Life 2 when you showed up with Siege Mode details! :p

I'd hope the classes are relatively balanced, and I don't want to see something like mass panzers on ET.

Which makes me think, which class gets the concussion rifle?

is the jedi the only class with access to force powers, or do the other classes get some as well?

I've wondered that myself. In MotS, the class system was treated this way.

Jedi got lightsabers and full Force (level 7, the second highest possible), whereas Scouts, Bounty Hunters, and Soldiers had varying (low, and always preset) degrees of Force Powers. They could also pick up discarded lightsabers (although their skill with them was far below the Jedi and they could be pulled away).

The Soldier class was slow and heavily armed, for example, but his "Force Powers" consisted soley of "Defense" which was an automatic power that made him more resistant to most powers (less damage from lightning, not gripped as long, blinded less, impossible to pull his weapons away unless he was out of mana, etc).

I don't know if you will have any powers as the non-Jedi classes, but we have heard mentioned that the "Cloaking Device" and "Jetpack" would be restricted by "Darkside" or "Lightside" which would seem to imply that Jedi are not the only ones who can use the Force (or are we to assume a Jedi would have a use for a Jetpack or Cloaking device and it wouldn't make him way over-powered?).

Then again, it may also be that the whole "Rebels vs. Imperials" thing is actually a "new rule" in Siege. Remember how in JK2 CTF we could restrict the Blue team to Lightside and the Red team to Dark Side?

Perhaps in Siege it will be the same way. Meaning the Blue team can only use the Lightside (but that means only Light Jedi) and the Red team can only use Darkside (meaning only Dark Jedi) but the other classes on both teams could be the same (Scout, Demolitions, Assault, etc).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but those are my speculations.

My *guess* is that the other classes will have varying degrees of Force (I thought it worked well in MotS, so why not?), however given Raven's propensity for creating Forceless vs. Force scenarios (Jedi Master and Jedi Vs. Merc come to mind) it could go either way. But then again, neither of those modes was supposed to be "balanced" so maybe not.

Some of you have been comparing "Siege Mode" to RTCW:ET, but I think that it will be more like Battlefield 1942 style of play.

BF1942 uses 5 classes, and in the new expansion, a Jet Pack is available. BF also uses a system allowing you to use jeeps, tanks etc. Notice the similarity, anyone?

There is also a new mod for BF, called Galactic Conquest. This allows you to use snowspeeders and AT-ST's etc.

Apart from JO, BF1942 is one of my favourite games, and, combining Star Wars with BF, with all this excellent siege mode stuff guaranteed, JA has potential to be THE best game ever. In my opinion, that is.

:fett: This Hoth mod you peaple are working on sounds amazing!!! Though I'll give more trust in my trusty jetpack!:cool: I remember hearing somewhere about dual blasters (It might have been this thread.) True or False? I'll search around for a bit for some useful info for your mod you are making!:atat: :fett:
:atat: :atat: :atat: :monkey4: :snipe1: :beam2:

I have heard nothing that would confirm or deny the presence of "dual blasters" in JA.

Maybe you're hoping for some dual pistol Jango action? ; )

Originally posted by Kurgan
I have heard nothing that would confirm or deny the presence of "dual blasters" in JA.

Maybe you're hoping for some dual pistol Jango action? ; )

Now that would be cool.

:twogun:

Cool!

BTW:Nice Forums

BTW:Demo rocks!

Dont get me wrong im not a whiner who detests force powers. but id like to see jedi only with force powers, number 1 would be although i have no problem with frorce powers normally i think they would make siege mode lose its strategic depth we all want in siege. I want to use a normal soldier, i want to defend hoth with my repeater not my lightsaber!!:D If everyone got force powers it would'nt feel right, anyways having a set number of jedis to back you up is better makes them special makes them nice to have around, oh its hard to explain.:p

I know exactly what you mean man! Having a class based system gives everyone more of a role of importance and your not just doing what the next guy is doing. Being a Jedi gives you somewhat of a role where you should protect your teamates and such which is cool, and then you got your soldiers who just like blow the **** out of everything!!

Which class would be the one to heal your team like medics in ET.?And can you heal them when they're down and wounded almost near death just like in ET?

Which class would be the one to heal your team like medics in ET.?And can you heal them when they're down and
wounded almost near death just like in ET?

Id like the revive thing as well although no one knows for sure except raevn so we are going to have to wait till the 17th :( for it to come out :mad: these are the classes:

Assault
Heavy Weapons
Demolitions
Scout (sniper)
Tech
Jedi

I think the medic class is tech, im not sure but there is defiantely some sort of medic in there. Et is soo good and now star wars et with vehicles, im in heaven thank you raven!!:)

I want to use a normal soldier, i want to defend hoth with my repeater not my lightsaber!! If everyone got force powers it would'nt feel right, anyways having a set number of jedis to back you up is better makes them special makes them nice to have around, oh its hard to explain.

This is more speculation on my part, but I am guessing that non-Jedi/Sith may have limited force in Siege.

Why do I say this? Because this is how it worked in MotS and it worked quite well there.

In addition, in the SP demo we've seen characters who have force, but no lightsaber, and force along with guns.

So I don't see any reason why they couldn't do that in Siege.

Now I may be wrong, but without force, they may have to do insane stuff to balance it by making the other classes have tons of armor and weapons (that are unpullable) and limiting what Jedi can use (like no vehicle use or something) or nerfing them (making them lower force rank).

But we'll see. They will do it in such a way as to balance it the best way possible, not make it into another Role Playing mode.

I see what your saying, i have mots but i never could get it to work online so i wouldnt know what the classes were like, i agree there would be alot of nerfing going on, and i guess you are right, as long as the average soldier doesnt get grip, more like push and pull and jump nothing to jedi like.. ill be happy.

I wonder if you can squash people in the AT-STs like in jk2, but thats kinda unfair, that is, if your the one under the AT-ST;
but then again they are real slow.

Here's how it was in MotS:

The Primary Weapon of each character could not be pulled away (except in rare cases when the person had zero mana in the case of the non-Jedi).

Bounty Hunter

Starting Shields: 75
Max Shields: 225
Starting weapons: Fists, ST Rifle, Carbonite Gun (could freeze people at short range then shatter them with a rifle butt), Flash Bombs (grenades that could blind you if they hit your body)
Force Powers: Push and Level 3 Defense (reduced the effect of most Force Powers on him).
Primary Weapon: Carbonite Gun

Soldier:

Starting Shields: 100
Max Shields: 250
Starting Weapons: Fists, ST Rifle, Repeater (in MotS the repeater fired 3 bullets at once in secondary fire), Rail Detonator (rocket launcher, secondary fire rockets could stick into surfaces or players and detonate a few seconds later, loved that weapon! you could also sometimes find "seeker" ammo for it that would track players automatically), thermal detonators
Force Powers: Level 4 Defense (basically everything had a reduced effect on him)
Primary Weapon: Rail Detonator

Scout:

Starting Shields: 25
Max Shields: 175
Starting Weapons: Fists, Bryar Pistol, ST Rifle (with Electro-scope.. and unlike the scope everyone else could pick up, his was silenced and did 4x more damage), Sequencer Charges (awesome mines, even better than the Det Packs in JK2).
Force Powers: Seeing (actually lit up a room and let you use the map to see people), Persuasion (Mind Trick that made you totally invisible except for a trail of sparkles), Jump, Level 2 Defense.
Primary Weapon: ST Rifle

Jedi Knight:

Starting Shields: 50 (just like in regular multiplayer)
Max Shields: 200 (see above)
Starting Weapons: Fists, Bryar Pistol, Lightsaber.
Force Powers: Selectable. He was the second highest Jedi Rank (Jedi Master was higher, and could select more powers, but you could only be a JK for the classes mode for balance).
Primary Weapon: Lightsaber

Each class could pick up the weapons of the other, they just wouldn't have it as well (the Scope in the hands of a non-Scout wasn't as powerful and made noise.. the Lightsaber in the hands of a non Jedi could be easily pulled and didn't reflect shots back at the shooter as often, if at all).


There were also other little tweaks, like the Scout moved the fastest overall, followed by the Jedi (unless he used Speed of course), the Bounty Hunter, and then the Soldier was the slowest (but he still moved faster than any non-Speed person did in JK2!).
They also took different amounts of damage for falling and drowning and stuff but I never memorized it.

Of course the classes were more about playing styles, since you could only use them in Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch and KFY (basically the opposite of Jedi Master... everyone has force but the person being "chased" and the force bubble also affected people really close to the carrier).

Though there was an excellent MotS CTF mod that converted the three JK CTF levels so you could use them with it.

Seige Mode does look like it will be fun. I can't wait to be standing there with a lightsaber and having a swoop come speeding toward me and then slicing the front or the bike off sending the rider flying.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Well, this ends the debate over whether or not the AT-ST is still in MP or not!

Also, in that last shot of the Rodian about to be Sniped, notice the Speeder bikes parked in a row behind him, sweet!


I wonder if those Hoth Turret Guns are manned or not? I'm guessing so, since there was a screenshot that looked like a "blaster cannon" (from the player's perspective) that now make me think it was one of those from the back.

I wonder what the symbols on the radar indicate? There seems to be a symbol for the "shield generator" (the one from ESB) on the Hoth map. The others might be Turret guns, or vehicles being used... maybe they are player locations, and it shows an icon showing what their driving?

Then again, the symbols could be "objectives" (ie: if your goal is to destroy the base, you have to wipe out everything it shows... the turrets, the generator, etc). I think I see an Ion Cannon to the far left, just partway out of the shot too. ; )

I am also assuming that the HUD for the vehicles uses the same scheme as the regular HUD (ie: red = health, green = shields, blue = force, orange = ammo). If that's TRUE of course, does that mean the Speeder bike has guns on it (if it shows ammo, when the user is clearly armed with Lightsabers)?

I wonder if Taun Tauns will be usable in Siege? Hope so...

Yeah. I'd assume the speeders blaster would replace saber throw.

:gben: The Force will be with you, always.

My updated theory was that the "ammo" for the Speeder bikes was actually FUEL (limiting their use over long term).

However, I could be wrong. I don't see any guns on the model, but one person has told me he KNOWS they can fire. Not sure how he 'knows this'... of course.


Now that we've seen the effect of Level 3 Seeing in the JA Demo, I can say with confidence that those "Red Bars" in front of people/objects are definately "health."

It's looking better and better!

Considering one can use their lightsaber while on a speeder, I don't see why they couldn't simply switch to a blaster. The swoops may not be equipped with a blaster, but if you have one in hand, you get the same effect.

As for classes, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no classes but Jedi and Sith will have Force powers. I see the non-Jedi classes having weapons and equipment (sentry guns, jetpacks, mini bacta tanks, etc.), and the Jedi having simply a lightsaber, and Force abilities. At least, that's the I want it to be.

i bet its really hard to hit some 1 with a light saber on a bike..

Kurgan, thanks for the post about MotS...I really miss that game, I hope Siege mode lives up to it. I loved taking people out with the scope, or flushing out enemy scouts with the rail detonator. Bounty Hunter was pretty interesting too, even though people always complained about the freezing gun.

"Assault" sounds pretty cool, I wonder what it will be...