I was the one who mentioned a crash when changing classes. It always happen when I switch between mandolorian and jedi (both ways). It happens when playing and spectating.

Speaking of which, sometimes I die as soon as I start, which probably has to do with trying to come out of spectating, but it happens when I first start a server and at the beginning of other rounds. It was just me and bots. Never played this with a human player.

If your joining mid-game, and the game has progressed past the first warm-up round, I purposefully kill you as soon as you start, so that you can't join in the middle of the round. Just seemed cleaner that way...

You should also die when changing teams mid-game too, or when yuo change classes while not in spectate etc.

Although, this is not actually all working correctly. Still working through some glitches...

Thanks for actually replyin, nice to know I helped out, and thanks for the great mod.
By the way my respawn idea was as an ALTERNATIVE,(as in an ingame selectable option) no way I'd make you replace somethin you'd been workin on for ages with my pipe-dream.
Is there anyway you can make the class choosing be kinda liek the forcemod one, you know where you go through the specialities, or maybe have a description somewhere for each, just so you know what you pickin.

Finally how about you give the villians team a Villlian class(as opposed to the hero CLASS the hero TEAM recieves), then heroes(TEAM) could get say a mercenary(just a bounty hunter for them) so that it evens out. UNLESS of course you did this to give some variation, Finally, anyway you can get the forth stance attached to 3 seperate styles, if not o well.

Lastly, anyway to make bounty hunters and heroes do rolls(there kinda acrobatic) Jedi's do cartwheels and the like(they're super acrobatic) and leave soliders out(they're unco balster-fodder) did you know soldier originally meant fodder? coz it did! anyways I'm ramblin, bye love the mod

Yeah, would be nice to get details about the classes to come up in game. Although I am working on a proper manual...

Don't you think it would be wierd to see a hero player (rebel / republic) player flying around on a jetpack? There would be no reference in the movies for this...
That's my only problem I have with having a direct Mandalorian equivalent in the Heroes team. THat's why I kept Mandalorian's for the villans and the 'Heroes' for the Hero team. (Maybe I need to change the name - 'cos that gets a bit confusing!!)

I'll look into the acrobatic stuff, but their's no way I'm taking out the soldier class!!
Have you tried playing the soldier class out of interest? Only takes two soldiers to attack a Jedi from two different angles... Practically no waiting for the end of the round... Stormies all the way man!! I've got some of my best scores playing the soldier class...!

SORRY! Bad, Bad wording, I didnt mean remove the soldiers, I love em and I LOVE versing lots of them with Jedi, I mean they dont get any rolling! SOrry for the misundersatnding.

Ahh - right. I get ya!! :)

Yeah, your right - absolutely!
Only have the fancy moves for the Jedi and Mandalorian.. :)

It worked now (the pure server thing)
I tested with bots, changing clases inside a match and I didn't got any crash or error and the model is just great.

Is there any chance to include custom models into a specific class?
I have Jango Fett skin from Open seasons #3 (it rocks) and it would be cool if I can add it to the mandalorian class (maybe with a .cfg file or in a separeta .pk3)
If its possible please tell me how (begs).
Sorry for my "low quality" english :P

You can - the changes will only show on your machine though. (I assume your not bothered by that...)

Step 1:
Extract the Mandalorian.pk3 to a temporary directory.
Step 2:
Delete all standard Jango Fett references.
Step 3:
Repack the .pk3.
Step 4:
Extract the new Jango Fett .pk3 to a temp directory
Step 5:
Rename whatever folder the model is in to 'Jango_Fett'
Step 6:
Repack the file

Put both these .pk3 files back in your base directory, and bobs your uncle! :)

Thanks, thanks and more thanks, THAT WAS QUICK!!!!
I'll keep playing and see what else I can found
did I thank you?
http://usuarios.lycos.es/jedimasterpayne/Mandalorians.jpg)
those are my babies -lol-
actually they look better but my video card sux (not realeased, even not finished yet)

Glad to be of service!

Yeah - they look pretty cool :)

Back to soldiers, I already mentioned their power, but two soldiers(6-8 including reinforcements, but they come linearly and therefore are easier), especially stormies should not be able to kill a jedi or a mandolorian who is sniping (mandolorians or heroes) or standing there deflecting shots(jedi) with an e11 blaster rifle. They kill me like that as initiative and padawan bots from 200 yds.(estimate) away while I was relatively protected by a wall. That's pathetic. I'm not that bad and there is nothing wrong with my game's AI limiting systems. Jedi are supposed to be one of the most formidable groups of humanoids in the galaxy and mandolorians were "brutally effective". Heroes, well, what do you expect? You kill the stormies, workers, and imperials in the high hundreds in SP. Can you do something about that?

What about pickups? Perhaps limit certain ones to mandolorians, heroes and jedi or just mandolorians and heroes and give jedi some sort of bonus like better force powers. To give heroes more of a chance, limit some pickups to them alone. Mandolorians have all they need.

Hope this isn't too much of requests. Just trying to improve game balance.

How about you split the soldier calss in to light/medium/heavy, or a just 2 of them, say scouts and assault.
I reckon it'd be cool if you had a quick scout/light class, with like a disruptor and rifle or something like that,
and an assault class, who's main advantage was they had one HUGE gun, like a clone gun(from SFX mod) or a reapeter, somethin like a starwars chaingun equivalent.
obvioulsy you could change there respawn amouns if need be for balance.

Just an idea, but i think its alright, Great Mod

Okay, i got this idea okay, why not remove stun baton as mercs weapon and instead have some halfarsed punch animation in first person, and use the punch emote whenever you attack, therefore mercs could punch without holdin some stinky stun baton.
Also I figured If you played half of the cartwheel animation in reverse (if this is possible, as technically your stickin anythin new in) it could come out as a kick as a front kick, then if you combine this with saber defence idea you could give jedi a kick to(just attack while holding saber defence down, or while holding walk or crouch or soimethin). It could do a bit of knockback and say 5 or so damage, after all its just a kick, shields negate it to. This'd be nice i reckon, and would be much better then gay old stun baton, finally, how about using the head of the stun baton(the 'prongs') as a 'hook' on the end of the grappling cable? Also you could a\lways use the walk key to activate saber defence if you wanna keep throw in.

One last thing, can you make missile launcher completely blow poeple up, i.e all their pieces which can be dismemebered fly everywhere? Thatd be brilliat and make more sense, after all they just got hit by a large explosive.

One more thing, maybe push/pull should be unblockable, as they take heaps of force and it recharges real slow, and jump should have minimal cost, as Jedi are supposed to me quite manouverable.
Thanks for listening, bye!

I'm not sure if anyone has said they could, but if you'd like I can make menus with dif music and images, but I don't know how to change all the buttons etc, but if you want, I could send you a menu that I've made.

master_thomas,

when you were killed by the bots from across the level, were you facing them and actively blocking? Or were they shooting at you and you were caught unawares?

And if you think about it, unless you got through the game without dying once (which I doubt!), you actually did die PLENTY of times in the SP game. THe only reason you managed you get to the end is bacause you can load up the last auto-save and try again!

I know the Jedi is suppost to be uber-powerful. But you have to be able to die! Their's no game otherwise!

Littleman,

I'm guessing the stun baton thing is actually about ForceMod - not my mod. No-one has them in mine... ;)

I'll try and get some of this extra visual stuff in, but just to let you know, my main priority is gameplay. Not to say visual stuff isn't important, but it gets second priority to getting the gameplay right...

I'm tweaking the force power stuff for the next build, taking into account all the feedback I've gotten so far...

Neo,
If you could send me anything you have, that would be great...

E-mail: renegadeofphunk@3dactionplanet.com

Littleman,

About your variety of soldier types idea, I like it.

I've been planning to get this in from the start, although it's gonna work slightly differently than you've described.

But it's going to end up being the same thing. You will end up not being just one, uniform soldier. (Or ANY class for that matter...)

Let me get this release out of the way before I start trying to figure out the details of that other stuff though. I'll let you know what I'm going to be adding soon ... :)

Well after play in all clases I found a little annoyance(?)

As Jedi I think is a good change slow the force regen time but playing I jump to face my oponent and run out of force for the entire battle, any chance to make jump free or half the force???
Keep the regen time, but the jump (most used force power) nows make impossible to use another.

The rest is just great.

yeap - I'm definetly going to be reducing the amount of force Force Jump uses in the next build. Also, I'm going to increase the amount of force power you start with.
But I'm going to keep regen the same (or maybe upp it slightly, but not by much...)

Well, that's the current plan anyway. It could be subject to change, but I think that's the way to go right now...

So you still have soldiers respawning multiple times? Wouldn't that kind of make them own in LMS games?

Wedge try the mod....


Soilders have 3 respawns, however they only have 10 hp / 25 shield and a Blaser Rifle.

Like Jman said :)

btw - I've fixed the crashing bug - so that'll be sorted when I put out the next build

Still working on getting class / model / team changes working totally glitch-free...

Originally postes by RenegadeOfPhunk

And if you think about it, unless you got through the game without dying once (which I doubt!), you actually did die PLENTY of times in the SP game. THe only reason you managed you get to the end is bacause you can load up the last auto-save and try again!

True, but I went through some of the levels without dying and got kills in much higher numbers than 6,7, and 8 even with only a stun baton, blaster, and pistol.

I was facing him and watching from about 200yds.. He shot at me and suddenly, a soldier appeared behind me. I killed him and by then, the shots had come at alt fire speed and I couldn't escape. The inaccuracy of the gun made me get hit when I moved from the original spot, so I stopped moving and watched him and got shot three times straight and was basically trapped. I moved back for cover by the roof and started getting shot at by another in a similar position-

<------------>me:-
- _____________________-
- -
- -
_ _
_=enemies -=shots and me ____=roof of building


I quickly sniped him, but ran out of sniper shots so I tried shooting the first with the pistol(relying on accuracy), but didn't hit him so I tried the blaster rifle and got shot to death.

If it helps the description, I was on the roof of one of the buildings in the new ctf_massassi temple level, which is not available at jediknightii.net yet to my knowledge, but is available at massassi.net. They were on the ground in groups of plants.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot about the auto format. In the editing screen, the diagram looks right. Rely on my description please.

Renegade you have something just wonderful here! Fantastic work. When I finally saw manual block and to my contentness, forced walk during this time, I was overjoyed. Even more so when I tried the mod.

I have a couple of additions you might want to make if your interested...

The suggestions get more and more difficult to implement as you move down, but more rewarding preportionally.

1) Redice blocking ability to almost 0% when block is not engaged (increase in skill).

2) Restrict jumping ability (i.e. one full force jump every so often), more of a walking/running pace fighting, keeping dueling to the ground (movie like).

3) Somehow make it so the direction of movement of an individual cannot be changed mid-swing. Meaning if I take a swing at you, I wont be able to strafe left and right madly (bringing about a cheesy less skillful feel). This would be especially great in creating a new style/look to all dueling (also movie like, i.e. obi wan swings and maul and moves in one direction, he doesnt change direction [opposite direction, or wild erratic movement] in the middle of a saber swing)

4) Make the block animation change dynamically (therefore creating new animations) for each types of attacked being stopped depending on where the attack is. Low attack, drop saber low to block, high attack throw saber up horizontally to block above head etc.. (would simply be incredible, duels would look REAL if accomplished).

That's it for now, hope I've given you some ideas, or even inspired you (doubt it :) ). Keep up the wonderful work!

Thx for the praise man :)
(I'm blushing as I type!)

Point 1.
I already try and do this, although I'm never sure exactly how 'severe' I should make this effect.
At the moment, these are the figures for chances of 'attempting' blocking with defense NOT held:

Defense Level 1: 0 / 10 (Not possible)
Defense Level 2: 2 / 10
Defense Level 3: 4 / 10

So as you can see, level 3 is still pretty damn low - less than 50%.
And even if the block is attempted, you still have to be facing your target with the appropiate accuracy, so the block can still fail.

I can try messing with these figures. Maybe bring level 2 down to 1 and level 3 down to 3...?

Try using defense level 1 for a bit, so you can get an appreciation of the difference...

And also having a certain cvar set (I beleive it's g_ghoul2collision) means that even if you don't block - if the bullet hits the saber directly, that will be blocked anyway - so that changes the dynamic too.


Points 2 and 3 would depend on a concept that I don't think will work. Having one type of defense for duels against other saber opponents, and another type of defense against gun-wielding opponents.
I've taken out duel challenge from my mod. I'm trying to be movie-realistic in this mod, so that means I can't have people start glowing and become invincible! :)
You could have different buttons for each type of defense, but that gets unwieldy and complicated...
Do you see what I mean?


Point 4 would be great. I'm guessing you might mean the sticky sabers. Maybe not using the standard 'lock' anims, but getting more variety for them.
If so, yeah. THat'd be great. It'd mean a LOT of messing around with different anims to find the right combnations, but it's certainly possible,
I'll see what I can do... :)

Hey renegade,

Actually what I meant in point 2 and 3 are not different defences, just different 'movement'. To restrict the player from moving around crazily while battling (specifically in mid swing), instead to move with skill, more slowly yes (as you have done with walking saber block), but more skillfully. The key is to have saber movement with a pace, so it appears dueling is more like the movies instead of more like a 'game version of the movies'.

I definately understand why you cannot have different defences, but I think that is more related to point 4.

In point 4 I do not mean the sticky sabers, which are great btw. I mean when you block depending on where the attack is coming from, you should implement a different animation to visually demonstrate the block. So if I shoot a blaster bolt at you leg, and you blocked, you would spin or move the saber downwards, block the shot and bring it back up. There is already a degree of these varying blocking animations in jk2, but expanding them is what I was suggesting.

However, now that I think about it, I feel point 2 and 3 to be more significant. I think you might of misinterpreted what I meant. We'll see but I think once I explain it properly (maybe I have above) you will enjoy these implementations.

MORE...

I'm doing some thorough testing of movie battles with a friend and have noticed the blue lunge is still not blocked 100% of the time if block is engage, especially if the combatant gets in close. With this I'm wondering 2 things, firstly, do you plan to ensure lunge is completely blocked if block is engaged? Secondly, what do the different stances have in blocking advantages (i.e. is red block better the blue block for red strike, and blue better for blue strike?).

The final note I wish to add, is to be weary of any mergers. I have heard razorace wishes to merge Masters of the Force with movie battles. Just to comment, I think that although razorace is a talented person making a mod with great potential his 'DODGE' function will greatly interfere with what I'm guessing is your vision (and mine) of a movie battle.

I recently watched his improved saber demo, and was disgusted to see combatats choopily leaping out of the way of the saber. In my opinion this drastocally takes away from what saber combat is all about. The ghoul2 hitzones are great, true view has potential, but not really playable yet, but the dodges will ruin your mod and your vision (in my humble opinion).

SORRY for the long post, I hope I can help in anyway with production of this fantastic mod.

Smood,

Right. I guess I took your use of the word 'dueling' in your points to mean you wanted one thing for normal blaster fire blocking, and another for saber combat blocking...

I get your points better now, but I still think the fact you can't practically have two different blocking mechanisms means you have limitations...

One example is the fact that you walk when you block. For dueling, it's perfect! Looks much more real. But you could argue that you might wanna move a bit faster when blocking blaster fire. But in that case, you'd need 2 different blocks - which doesn't work in principle.

In short, if I restrict jumping in a 'duel', I end up limiting jump in other situations.
If I limit movement in a swing in duels, it ends up happening in other areas of saber combat. I'm trying to imagine if sabering a stormtrooper would become a real pain if you could only move in one direction when you swung. Possibly not, but it has to be taken into account...

Hmmm - no, I wasn't aware of the blue lunge thing. To be honest, I'm not certain holding defense should be able to block 'everything' - because Jedi's on 1 HP could clam up and try and just block the round out sometimes, which could get boring...
Not sure about that really. I'd be happy to take some advice on that. (It seems you get what I'm trying to do in this mod very well, so I respect your opinion :) )

Yeah, I get what you mean about the blocking now. Yeah, that'd be great. It's on the list... :)

Yeah, I'm not interested in merging. It was talked about for a bit, but it became pretty obvious it wouldn't have worked out. I'm not against some possible code-sharing, which is a different thing - but we'll see...

If your serious about the help, that'd be great. I may have some news quite soon which might make your help more important actually.

Watch this space :)

After gettting some good feedback for this mod, and offers for help from various people, I am seriously considering ressurecting the original, proper concept for this mod:
Star Wars - Team Assault (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95303)

Originally posted by Smood
I recently watched his improved saber demo, and was disgusted to see combatats choopily leaping out of the way of the saber. In my opinion this drastocally takes away from what saber combat is all about. The ghoul2 hitzones are great, true view has potential, but not really playable yet, but the dodges will ruin your mod and your vision (in my humble opinion).

I can understand the Dodge complain. It doesn't do any sort of prediction at this point so it only triggers after impact.

I'll be upgrading Dodge in the future, but what's wrong with True View?

I'm interested by the fact that you're willing to make comments about MotF but not directly to the MotF Team. If we don't hear complains, how are we suppose to improve? :)

Anyway, as for the backstabs not being 100% blockable, that's due to the way the saber system is set up. Specials have the ability to break thru defenses.

Also, you don't need g_ghoul2sabercollisions to have saber on saber collisions work. All g_ghoul2sabercollisions does is turn on ghoul2 tracing for the saber, greatly increases the size of your attack trace, and slightly changes the saber block chances.

Renegade a few things...

1) What I'm proposing is having this style of fighting for all gametypes and all situations not just duels. Now I see the dilemma there, since this would slow down jedi vs. mercenary combat considerablly.

Perhaps a area based system should be implemented!? So in essence as a person with a saber approaches you within a certain radius these movement changes take place (much like a temporary set of engaged duel settings). This area system would probablly be very hard to implement and thus is not very practical.

Features of More practicallity:

2) Remove all spark effects! A very simple modification that would bring a great amount of movie effect to dueling. These sparks were not featured in any movie duel, and thus I'am perplexed to the reason they were added to jediknight.

Also remove smoke, and those small golden balls that come out when a person is struck. The removing of these effects accomadates the next point.

3) Keep saberghoul2collision option on by default. I enjoyed movie battles so much, but when ghoul2 collision was on it was even better. There were mid swing parries and more saber deflection. There is far more parrying and thus sparks and other no movie effects should be removed to free up the screen. Try it! It is incredible with movie battles.

4) SMALL BUG: At times, the saber reacts as if being hit or clashed with, even though the opponent you are facing is far away. Not a big thing, but a noticeable bug.

5) Implemenation of even further reduced block when not using block button (you have suggested this, and I think it would be great).

RENEGADE you have something GREAT! Keep up the amazing work! I'am pleased to hear your decision of the merger.

How do you choose the class you desire to be? I'am not sure of this.


Razorace -

I'am sorry for not suggesting these changes to you. The reason I did not dealt with the fact that I could not truly appeciate your mod since true view is unplayable in my opinion (at least so far). I realize you have options to slow down camera movement, but it seems to me jk2 was designed to really keep this option shadowed. This is not to say you have done a great job implementing it, but I just cannot seem to enjoy it,

I was wondering how I could turn it off to witness the rest of what you have done.

I'm running a dedicated server on my computer now (Located in NY).

If anyone wants to play just PM me.

Server IP:
67.84.20.8

***IMPORTANT***
If you change you model while dead/spectating, YOU CANNOT BE FOLLOWING ANYONE when the round restarts or else you crash the whole server. (Renegade has this fixed and will be implemented in the next mod).

May I suggest at the moment that if you want to change class, you leave the game and then join again? A pain, I know. But that makes sure their's no problems...

I want to make sure ALL issues to do with changing class and team are sorted for the next build (which is why I'm not releasing the crash fix straight away...)

Originally posted by Smood
I'am sorry for not suggesting these changes to you. The reason I did not dealt with the fact that I could not truly appeciate your mod since true view is unplayable in my opinion (at least so far). I realize you have options to slow down camera movement, but it seems to me jk2 was designed to really keep this option shadowed. This is not to say you have done a great job implementing it, but I just cannot seem to enjoy it,

I was wondering how I could turn it off to witness the rest of what you have done. [/B]

Well, motf_trueguns 0 disables True View for the guns. Looks like we missed that point in the manual but it is listed in the cvar list.

So, basically, you don't like it because of what it is instead of it lacking features. :P Get your story straight. :)

True View does take time to get used to. There's not really anything else that can be added to the True View system to make it better.. It is totally dependant on smooth/good animations and models for the view to look right and the default Raven animations aren't my fault. Heck, I already fixed at least one of their animation sequence bugs in the roll animations.

Anyway, that's enought thread hijacking for now. :)

Smood,

Thanks for thinking about this stuff! It's great to get such well thought out feedback! :)

The 'dueling-area' system could work in principle. It wouldn't actually be that hard to achieve in code, but I'm more worried about confusing the hell out of the average player!
Especially when they didn't see a Jedi behind them, so suddenly their doing different moves but they don't think they should be.
You could make it so that it's distance AND facing a Jedi, but at this point the feature is getting pretty convoluted!

Donno. I guess I'm kind of resigned to the fact that the saber system overall has to be a compromise between saber and gun combat. Any way around it seems to end up being a non-starter...

But I'm open to trying to find a solution! :)

Yeah, I can keep saberghoul2collision on by default - not a problem. In for next build...

Good point about the spark effects! Never really thought about it.
Well, donno. Isn't there the odd spark now and again..? But anyway - not anywhere near as often as in play.
Is there a cvar for saber spark effects?

Well spotted about the 'block-when-noone-there' bug! This is a residual effect from a much worse problem I had earlier in development - phantom bullets!! You wouldn't just make blocking movements, you'd actually get hit - and take damage, even when no-one is shooting at you!! lol
I've managed to improve things a lot, they can't actually do you damage anymore, but you can still see some residual effects. i.e. There are still some phantom bullets flying around - they just can't hurt you!
I've nearly driven myself mad trying to solve this. Once I've had a chance to re-coup my sanity, I'll dive back in and finish it off! :)

To change class, just select a new model. Look below the model list bar, and the class will be shown there - where the name used to be. Now only shows null for the name - this will be fixed in the next build too...
Be aware that this doesn't work right sometimes and can actually cause crashing. I'm gonna fix all this stuff in the next build. But, for now, I would suggest re-joining (or re-starting) a game when changing class - to be safe. Although changing class / team when NOT inbetween round spectating seems fairly safe...

After playing a few games with Jman, I think I need to do something fairly drastic...

I think I need to SERIOUSLY reduce the amout of jetpack fuel avalible to the Mandalorian in a round. I mean a lot...

...maybe only 5-10 seconds flight-time.

I'm sure some of you are thinking - WTF?

But the fact is that at the moment, a Jedi simply cannot get close to a Mandalorian to attack them. The mand can just jetpack for a second, land somewhere else and attack again.
This is OK once or twice, but he can't spend ALL round doing this!!

Comments please...

I'm pretty sure sparking is hardwired whereever it is used.

As I played on Jman's server as a mandolorian, the jetpack is necessary.

Besides, the jedi can deflect everything and is also the only one who can deflect anything at all. Mandolorians need the jetpack for use throughout the map for dodging.

How about, give it a recharge like I previously requested, but make it drain faster. Jango Fett never used it for extended periods of time. Only quick spurts of usage. Jango also killed a jedi with his pistols and little effort and was a good match for Obi-Wan, who was probably the third our fourth most powerful Jedi of the time.

Still, heroes need something. Can you increase their running speed and non force jump height?

On the server I confirmed that bots have uber-aim. While running around madly, a prisoner bot shot me three times with a disruptor from across the level while I was also running with random movement. The third shot knocked me off of a building and I died. I was out of jetpack fuel. This happened multiple times (without the fall) while I was moving at full speed through the air with my jetpack.

master_thomas,

I don't doubt the fact that a mandalorian should be an equal match for a Jedi. I agree, the movies enforce this...

But the fact is, as things stand now, that if a mandalorian wants to, he can attack the Jedi the whole round from distance. The Jedi has NO chance of getting close enough to the mandalorian to do any damage if the mandalorian can just take off any time during the whole round...

In other words, if the Jedi wants to attack the Mandalorian, but the Mandalorian doesn't want to get attacked, there is literally nothing the Jedi can do about it.
If the mandalorian has limited fuel, he can only fly away so many times. After that, he effectively has to stand and fight...

Having a rechargable jetpack, unfortunately, would make the problem even worse. It becomes even easier to just fly away anytime the Jedi get's anywhere near you...

And besides, I thought it was pretty well agreed among players that your actually quite an easy target on a jetpack. The jetpack is handy for reaching unaccessible parts of the map, getting somewhere quickly, making a quick escape etc. But I not convinced it should be considered a 'dodging' tool particularly...

I think the fact that heroes have a potentially infinite regenerating health is all the advantage they need. And their already the fastest of all the classes...

As far as the uber-bot aim, what setting did Jman have the bots at?

I fully support your jetpack decision renegade. I feel it will definately better reflect the movies, and mandalorians.

On the mandalorians it would be interesting if you could borrow some of Azymn's code and features if he allows it (which I doubt) so mandalorians can have a flame thrower, clocking, dual pistols, optic radar, etc...

I know, this will make them exceptionally strong which is something that would have to be balanced for if it were implemented, but would definately enhance their class. Since, there must be equilibrium and equivelant power relations between classes, these changes may also enhance all other classes. Just something to think about.

- removing sparks -

Well, I did some work in the past to try and find out how this may be accomplished. Some suggested the obvious route, code (I'm doing java, and basics of C++, itll be a good LONG while before I can do some real stuff), the others suggested deleting FX files for jk2. This sounded sensible and practical, but I did not attempt this.

I have also e-mailed technical support about this mod question, I do not know if they will give me a straight answer, but will get back to you as soon as possible. I really want this implemented. BTW, no duel featured any spark, not even the odd spark, this is why I want them removed. I still do not know why they were implemented, even in KOTOR they are being implemented! LOL!

Well Smood, you'll be happy to know that I've managed to remove almost all the spark and 'orange ball' effects.
I'd never noticed how wierd all that stuff looked until you pointed it out.It does indeed look a lot cleaner now...

The one effect I'm having trouble getting rid of is when the saber deflects a blaster shot, you get a spark. But if I remove that effect, you also don't get wall impact effects - which I think are better left in - and this also leads to no impact marks left on the walls too.
I guess the code somewhere treats a blaster-saber impact just the same as a blaster-wall impact as far as the effect is concerned. If I can find where this happens, I'll remove that last remaining spark effect...

There has been talk between me and Azymnn. He wants to concentrate on getting his release out before anything concrete happens (which I totally understand), but it's certainly looking possiblle that we might be doing some code-sharing.

Yeah, adding all the cool stuff to the mandalorian could upset game balance. I guess I'll come to that when it comes :)

I can't believe you've removed the effect so promptly! Great work! How exactly did you do it?

Anyhow, my main concern was the spark effects on saber to saber clashing, saber to blaster is just an added bonus, but the saber to saber spark removal is a wonderful achievement! EVEN more so with the small orange balls that come out when you strike someone, those are perhaps even more illogical then the sparks. GREAT WORK!

If you are on msn messenger please feel free to add me so we can communicate more freely.

dreadknotx@hotmail.com

Just a comment, Smood. I think the "orange balls" are called blood sparks. Talking about the small orange balls that come out of you when you get hit by a saber sounds weird.

Can you separate the wall impact and saber-blaster effect in any way? Maybe you can find the file that determines the effect and change it. Make an effect file with no effects and set it to use that. Can that be done?

As renegade has stated these two effects are linked. If he finds a way of seperating them I'm sure he will.

They're linked? Why would they be linked? Isn't the spark effect called seperately for saber - bolt impacts vs. bolt - wall impacts?

Apparently not razorace.

Well, why does Phunk think they are linked? From what I've seen, the lightsaber contact stuff makes a seperate call for those effects...

Linked is the wrong word :)

Your right Razor - I just haven't bothered tracing back yet - to where the individual calls come from for each instance of the effect.

The other effects weren't used else-where, so it was trivial to stop them playing.

I haven't bothered finding out where their called yet. (The little work I have done today I've spent trying to sort out these damn class-changing glitches...!)

I'll leave it till tomorrow :)

ok dokie.

EV_SABER_BLOCK is the tag entity for most of the saber blocking sparks. Search for that and you should find most of the sparking code.

Hey...

BIG question... why dont the jedi deflect the shots back to firing opponents? I might have a failed to see a previous explanation of this but it can be at least one of 2 things: a Bug or an Intentional measure to give the blaster weilding opponents a chance.

Well, if you guyz and to make Jedi Saber Blocking and Deflecting more of a task of skill i'd sugest limiting the time vs effect of the saber blocking. Something like making the block a bit like attacking. This way you'd have to time the blocks. So if a Stormie shoots 3 times towards you (assuming that all the shots would connect) you'd have to press Block 3 times. Each block would have a window of effect of 1 or 2 seconds.

If you want to use the delfect blasts back to the enemy which fird them, you can do 1 of 2 things. 1st you can use a random probability of deflecting, meaning that not all the shots would be deflected back and would stop at the lightsaber. The other is using the blue swing(maybe combined with the block button) to stirke at blaster bolts, making them "bounce" back. The timming would dictate the precision of the deflection so that the closer to the mid swing, the more precise is the deflection.

Another note on Blocking. Forget about the saber block ability as it stands now. Make the saber blocking affect the engaged blocking with the secondary fire mode. What you CAN do is for non aware incoming bolts is to make the force sight more usefull. If engaged it would highlight enemies as normal, but it would also act like in SP allowing you to autododge a shot you could not see comming. If the dodge anim is not available... you can always use a standard blocking animation.

Mandalorians are by far the strongest class. Mostly because of the jetpack no doubt. Reducing the time a Mandalorian can stay airborn would do the trick.
Also on Mandalorians, I read someone say something about the rocket launcher. Well if possible i'd say remove the rocket launcher as a weapon, and try to bind the rocket(from the jetpack, not a hand weapon) to a key like the jetpack allowing both standard firing modes (normal and lock on).

I havent tried but how much does force pull affect airborn Mandalorians?

I think it would be pretty cool to remove some weapons fro mthe mandalorian but add some gadgets, like the radar and stuff.

How about a Non-Mandalorian Bounty Hunter Class? Remove jetpack, add some weapon or gadjet.

Regarding the Classes and Class selection. Maybe it would be best to change the process. when you click the Character menu you'd first have to choose a class, then you'd get the menu to selectthe skin and model as well as abilities and maybe the weapons available to the class you chose on the first menu.

Well... more stuff to complicate Renegade's project ;)

Cheers

BloodRiot,

I have not (intentionally at least) touched anything to do with the chances of deflecting blaster shots back at your enemy. There should be the same chance of this as before.
When I'm playing, I certainly manage to kill the odd enemy by deflecting back the shot sometimes. Are you saying this never happens for you now?

I'm not sure I want to go as far as making you hit the block button presisely when a shot is coming at you. I think a lot of players will find that VERY fustrating I've gotta say.
Saying that, if you CAN predict your enemy, it is advantageous, because you can switch between sprinting and blocking, allowing you to catch up to an opponent who's firing at you and running away...

I think at higher levels of defense, you should have SOME chance of blocking shots without defense held. I think this represents the fact that sometimes in the movies, you DO see a Jedi moving at a good pace while blocking. It's rare, but it does happen. (One example is Mace Windu running at Jango Fett in AotC).
Since it's a risky thing to do, this should keep it fairly rare in-game, which should keep it accurate to the films.

At the moment, if you pull a Mandalorian, he does a 'falling' animation, but keeps flying. I've changed that since so that when you push or pull, the jetpack 'cuts out'. Seems to work well...

Yeah, if I can add cool toys (hopefully from ForceMod), then I can reduce the literal power of the Mandalorian class and still keep it balanced...
I want to eventually do what you've suggested with the rocket, but it's probably not gonna make it in for this release.

I may add a specific, Bounty Hunter type class eventually, although again, I doubt it'll make it in for this release...

Yeah, a class selector control would be good for the menu's. I'll look into it...

Razor,
Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out when I get home...

I have the B4 version and personally... i havent noticed any bolts being deflected... might have jsut not happened on my "against bots" tryout or simply i failed to notice them.

Well..about my delfecting and blocking bolts idea it's probably just me since i'm a bit of an RPG fanatic... there fore i strive for balance.... my point of view was... not all about power is good. And saber blocking always sounded too automatic for these games. My idea of a perfect duel is 2 guyz timming every attack to either parry or go through the enemies defense as opposed to the sraffing and attack spamming till one falls. One hit one kill tactic. but yes.. this perfect dueling would be too drastic for a shoot'em up. However properly implemented.. the idea as sugested on my previous post would do the trick since you'd simple had to press the button at the right times. Let's face it.. a jedi wants to rush and end that spray of blaster bolts cuz in them ovies...blocking is not automatic and they cant just block for an entire "round" ;p

you do as you please of corse... but automatic defense just doesnt sound correct enough... to be honest.. i hate playing ctf on saber only servers... the defense is over abusive. It's not a matter of skill but more of DFA spamming.
Your idea of blocking being assigned and engaged to a button was a great first step in taking out that awful abuse. If it stays as is im more than pleased... i just took a shot at making it more to my like ;p can anyone blame me for following my tastes? ;p lol

keep us posted on further updates... oh and btw.. when are planning to realease the next build?

Cheers mate.. keep up the good work.