When Jedi Academy comes out,I just hope for one thing:
DON'T MAKE ONE SABER STYLE TRUMP OUT THE OTHERS.

It was quite evident for me,in JK2,being the stubborn Jedi I am,I was forced to convert from yellow to red when playing MP with humans.Look at red.Its' saber tip is really strong,yet the base of the saber sucks(or maybe it was a hit detection bug for MP for red stance).I saw,sometimes in duels where the saber doesn't even hit the enemy but the enemy grunts.Cool,I thought.The second thing,when I saw my saber slice CLEANLY right through some fellow duellist,DEALING ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE.I really hope Raven would rectify this.Saber combat in Sp was terrific,though,no qualms required.

The thing I hope is,please don't make dual saber or dual-bladed saber over-powerful or overwhelm the lone-saber.Although technically an advantage,but not really all the time.I mean,look at Darth Tyranus and Anakin.Even if Anakin had 2 sabers,each hand's strength was focused on one.Darth Tyranus has both arms concentrated on one blade-much less complicated.Another good example would be Darth Maul and Obi-Wan.Look who was defeated in the end,even when someone else had the upper hand.(Lucky,but strategical shot there by Obi-Wan)Darth Maul was taken aback that he had 2 hands for 2 sabers,and if he sliced wrongly,he could have the back of the other saber hit him.Yet Obi-Wan could concentrate much easier and leap better.See the difference?

So,I hope that Raven DO make all saber stances have their strengths and weaknesses,PROVIDED that they are obvious enough and have enough potential to trump any other stance their enemy uses.

*It would also be a good thing to have 3 stances for 3 types of saber.
Thus,3*3=9 saber stances total!

The reason why red is the only viable option in FFA's is that it's the only stance that does any damage. With the amount of power-ups, you can whack your opponent with blue stance for hours without scoring a single frag.

Take map Raven for example: nothing but shields and medkits all over the place. I could probably survive an entire 20-minute game of "hit-me-with-blue-stance" simply by WALKING from powerup to powerup. :(

But there will always be some strategy that's "best". I doubt perfect balance can ever be accomplished, but Uber-moves can and should be avoided. Thinking about 1.03 makes me sick.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
The reason why red is the only viable option in FFA's is that it's the only stance that does any damage. With the amount of power-ups, you can whack your opponent with blue stance for hours without scoring a single frag.

and ctf... I love yellow stance, but using it in ctf = 0 - 10 points... you take the fc down to 10 hp... and voila, he use a bacta or run for power-ups... or gets team healed... I just feel real silly using yellow in ctf...

Obiwan only killed maul because he cut the staff in half... :)

If he'da had his full double bladed saber still, Obi would be toast

Obiwan only killed maul because he cut the staff in half... If he'da had his full double bladed saber still, Obi would be toast
good point gonkh8er ,obi1 would have gone down the hole instead of maul if it were not for his anger at maul since he did kill qui gon :D

he was also a hero, so its a duh thing that he won.

surely you're not suggesting that 2 blades = 2x damage ?
it requires a lot more skill to use such a weapon, especially if the blades cut into anything...i bet the sith training academy has a lot of little alien kids with missing limbs :)

onto the stances thing,
Blue is not totally crap: read the manual "its useful for dispatching many enemies quickly" ie, stormtroopers

When i LAN with 3 of my friends, we always have a duel tournament and only one of us uses red stance, the rest use yellow.
We've simlply learnt how to counter it, its so damn slow, you just strafe to one side and do a spinny move and hit him in the back as he goes by.
The guy using the red always comes last, by the way...and he's not crap, he's usually at the top in FFA

nothing but shields and medkits all over the place. I could probably survive an entire 20-minute game of "hit-me-with-blue-stance" simply by WALKING from powerup to powerup.

I never played that map but from what I know,you are indeed right.


you can whack your opponent with blue stance for hours without scoring a single frag.

Right.Same goes for yellow stance.


Obiwan only killed maul because he cut the staff in half...

That shows that Obi-Wan had some skill,and he had the skill to overcome another dual-saber wielder.Anyway let's not continue to argue about this.


surely you're not suggesting that 2 blades = 2x damage ?
it requires a lot more skill to use such a weapon, especially if the blades cut into anything....

No offense but surely I don't mean such things.I never did.It's just that I think Raven would up the damage(erroneously),considering the 'skill' to wield it,as you mentioned just now.However,skill in the real world,(considering there was one),does not equal to the skill of a PC player controlling some Jedi.It just boils down to the same button-mashing.Thus,let's say there are 2 guys of equal skill,but one wielding a single-bladed saber,the other,a double-bladed one.Thus,in the real world,surely they would deal equal damage,but in a game,the guy with the double blade would surely win because he deals more damage,when the times he struck the opponent would be equal to the times his opponent strikes him.So,I don't hope this thing would happen.Think the same Obi-Wan-Maul example again.It only took one shot from Maul's saber to deactivate Qui-Gon,and so did Obi-Wan use one shot to deactivate Maul in turn.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
The reason why red is the only viable option in FFA's is that it's the only stance that does any damage. With the amount of power-ups, you can whack your opponent with blue stance for hours without scoring a single frag.

Take map Raven for example: nothing but shields and medkits all over the place. I could probably survive an entire 20-minute game of "hit-me-with-blue-stance" simply by WALKING from powerup to powerup. :(

But there will always be some strategy that's "best". I doubt perfect balance can ever be accomplished, but Uber-moves can and should be avoided. Thinking about 1.03 makes me sick.

Amen, brutha. The sabre should be lethal regardless of how you swing it or what stance you're using. A hit is a hit is a hit, and 1 or 2 hits ought to be enough to kill a person with ANY stance. 3 at the most. The trumping ought to come in the way you use the particular stance. Personally, I don't think any one stance needs to be the "best" stance, it should really come down to a matter of personal preference.

You could still have a trump system, but it might get complicated, even with only three stances. One way that it could work is to have an attack rating and a defense rating for each stance. At their cores, you could have them break down on the following scale (these numbers are totally arbitrary, just to illustrate a sort of way in which this might work):

Red -- Attacks at 3, defends at 1.
Yellow -- Attacks at 2, defends at 2.
Blue -- Attacks at 1, defends at 3.

When you want to determine who wins a duel, you could simply take the numbers depicted above and whichever number is higher is able to either batter through defenses or parry (knock the blade aside, leaving the opponent open to counter-attack). The higher the number, the higher the likelihood of the occurrence in question. (I'll leave debates on percentages for likelihood of this happening up to other folks, for now.)

Now, as far as I can remember, this was sort of the way it worked with vanilla JO (though admittedly, I don't know how the underlying code worked there). The problem you have, however, is what to do when you break even. In that event, rather than default to JO's system, where you could apparently block for an infinite amount of time (and automatically, no less), you could have defense be BOTH automatic AND manual. So, in a break-even scenario, you will automatically block X number of attacks made in Y number of seconds, and THEN can block a separate number of attacks in a separate number of seconds MANUALLY. At a base rate, let's say you can block 2 attacks that come within 4 seconds of each other automatically, and can manually block 2 more attacks that come within 3 seconds of the preceding attacks.

But wait, you say, doesn't this mean that using blue stance AND yellow stance will pretty much win the day every time, at least when they go up against red? And won't this mean that red will always be blocked by blue, since you can't do more than three swings in a row with red? Well, yes, but you could throw in more calculations and variables to make that less likely. How? Well, you can start by making ALL stances available to everyone from the start. No more assigning points to gain access to the basic 3 stances. You are then given the ability to assign points to sabre offense and sabre defense. The higher your defensive rate, the better you can block -- meaning the more number of consecutive attacks within X amount of time you can resist. The higher your offense rate, the more powerful your attacks are -- meaning that they effectively count as "attacks plus" for purposes of calculating number of attacks in a row. So if you're at even levels of offense and defense, yes, blue D will always be able to defend and red D will always be beaten by a blue/yellow attack. But, if you are at level 3 defense, and your opponent is at level 1 offense, your red stance may be able to withstand a whole mess of wimpy blue attacks. Likewise, if you're at level 3 offense, and your opponent is at level 1 defense, your red stance will utterly demolish their defenses.

You can further complicate things by making combos have higher attack values (counting as more "attacks"), to prevent the spamming of a particular move. You'd still need to retain the basic trumping mechanism (IE: blue will always defend, even against a combo, if sabre defense is equal to an opponent's offense rating), by allowing red to chain up to four swings together, but you could offset the likelihood of people using the blue "headless chicken" maneuver or spamming other moves by having consecutive identical moves degrade in attack value after, say, three swings. So, you wouldn't be able to just use four basic red forward chops in a row to and expect that to automatically have the same effect as a combo of four different moves.

I dunno. I'm still working with this idea, but I think it could work if it was fleshed out more. In the meantime, I have to get to class. Let me know what y'all think, and my apologies if it's complicated. :D

Originally posted by Toa Tahu
The thing I hope is,please don't make dual saber or dual-bladed saber over-powerful or overwhelm the lone-saber. I agree with this 100%. I prefer using the one single-bladed saber. What can I say, I'm a sucker for the classics :)

I'm sure everyone in MP will be using the lightstaff and two saber styles, but I want to be able to use the single saber and not be at a disadvantage...

What some of you fail to realize that is in MP, there is such thing as a split-second lag... So when you think you are hitting someone, it may show on your screen but the server is in fact a split-second ahead of you, in which case they moved, avoiding the damage..

Also, for those who say red is the only option.. There were times that even in Raven Labs in which I was able to kill a red stance with a yellow stance.. Its about skill.. I can easily dodge the DFA, and also any lunge that he makes, which still be able to land some mortal blows in the same process. So, I am guessing most of you don't use yellow, or you'd know that with the right combos and experience, you can defeat red or blue or yellow easily.

Well i use yellow......... and can still beat many heavy stanced people....

True, it's possible, but with the nerfing of sabres in 1.04, and the increased auto-blocking, it became rather difficult and tedious to use some of the lighter stances like yellow and blue. You can do it, but it slows down gameplay. Now, that's not always a bad thing, but it can be, especially for gameplay types like CTF where speed is essential.

yeah, for dueling the stances are pretty well balanced i think, but in ffa, tffa and ctf, strong is the only way to go.

I couldn't agree more.

I would not buy the game if I was forced to use double bladed lightsaber or dual lightsaber techniques to be effective in the late game. I think the single blade should have it's share of advantages over BOTH of the other styles: Yoda uses one lightsaber and he is the greatest saberist in the universe.

I'm a sucker for the classics, and I can think of nothing more stupid looking than a Jedi walking around wielding two lightsabers of different colours. Talk about a goofball. The more they need to establish their dominance the less dominant they probably are.

Originally posted by Toa Tahu
When Jedi Academy comes out,I just hope for one thing:
DON'T MAKE ONE SABER STYLE TRUMP OUT THE OTHERS.

I saw,sometimes in duels where the saber doesn't even hit the enemy but the enemy grunts.Cool,I thought.The second thing,when I saw my saber slice CLEANLY right through some fellow duellist,DEALING ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE.

Well, if you were a saberist in JK1 your first instinct here would be to recognize this as a lag issue. Which it probably was. Trust me, most of the time if you hit someone with the saber, they get hit, but if you are slightly lagged, which all MP games over the internet are, then it is very possible that the player you see on your screen isn't actually exactly where you think he is.

Originally posted by JaledDur
Well, if you were a saberist in JK1 your first instinct here would be to recognize this as a lag issue. Which it probably was. Trust me, most of the time if you hit someone with the saber, they get hit, but if you are slightly lagged, which all MP games over the internet are, then it is very possible that the player you see on your screen isn't actually exactly where you think he is.

Thats what I was saying in my message posted above, thats what most of these people fail to realize, especially those that get on about how the saber system is flawed, etc... Its not flawed, the human behind it, along with the internet is flawed.

In duel, I dont find it hard defeating red with yellow, but in ctf, where everyones running around dfa spamming, picking up bactas, shields, medkits all the time, yellow just wont pay off as well as red.. its just not a 1 hit killer. I do get the fc down on low hp sometimes with yellow, even when hes surrouned by team mates, but then 1 of them kick me down, and the rest kills me on the ground...

So, in duel, I see all stances pretty evenly matched, but in ctf especially, red dfa spamming is dominating it... sure I get one of those in the back... just to be dfa'ed by enother..

And what really makes me annoyed is that sometimes in duels, you get called "yellow spammer", while the other guy use nothing else than red.

And what really makes me annoyed is that sometimes in duels, you get called "yellow spammer", while the other guy use nothing else than red

I hate when ppl gets pissed bcoz ur using medium stance only.
As fast as u've fragged em in a duel, they come running as fast as they can and challenges u again, just 2 prove that they're better than a medium stance "lamer".

Medium stance is the coolest stance in the game and jk2 would b
much more fun if medium stance was the dominating stance.

I probably use all three stances equally. It depends greatly on the situation and the opponant.They all have their advantages and disadvantages. In a duel, I find I rarely use the same stance that the other person is using. If they are using red, I'll probably go yellow or even blue, so I can make quick attacks in between their swings. If they go yellow, I'll use either of the other two, depending on how they are using yellow. If they go blue, I usually use red, because it can bash right through their defenses.

Why would you limit yourself by using only one stance? To me, that is like playing Paper, Rock, Scissors and going scissors, scissors, scissors...

Originally posted by Prime
I probably use all three stances equally. It depends greatly on the situation and the opponant.They all have their advantages and disadvantages. In a duel, I find I rarely use the same stance that the other person is using. If they are using red, I'll probably go yellow or even blue, so I can make quick attacks in between their swings. If they go yellow, I'll use either of the other two, depending on how they are using yellow. If they go blue, I usually use red, because it can bash right through their defenses.

Why would you limit yourself by using only one stance? To me, that is like playing Paper, Rock, Scissors and going scissors, scissors, scissors...

Exactly. And it should be that no single stance is the "best". You should be adept with all three and simply use them at different times to perform different jobs. Unfortunately, due to the way sabre damage and blocking was modeled in JK2, it often seemed that (outside of duels at least) red stance was the only one that could dish out damage quickly. That's something I'd like to see changed in JA.

I probably use all three stances equally. It depends greatly on the situation and the opponant.They all have their advantages and disadvantages. In a duel, I find I rarely use the same stance that the other person is using

I used 2 switch alot between the stances, but some how I dont like switching between all of em.

I still switch between stances but I only switch between heavy stance and light stance. When I play with medium stance i use medium stance only. I think its alot cooler using medium stance without switching 2 another 1.

I always liked the yellow stance. I feel it's very versatile. I just hope they include some new stances for the single bladed saber or just 'tweak' the current ones. I also hope for some variety for the double-bladed and two saber fighting styles.......though I realize you really can't do it several different ways. It would be a nice touch though. :)

Originally posted by WarteX
I think its alot cooler using medium stance without switching 2 another 1. Cooler? :confused:

I play with yellow mostly and "well sync" blue hits to do little damage (60) so my oponent runs out of bacta, the red goes only if the other player makes a mistake like let one side without defense, fails a DFA or end leting(?) his back uncovered :], I get decents scores in CTF and never takes or try to take the flag, just sort of 600 decent (not wonderfull) points killing players.
all of that selfish crap above to say Yellow rocks!.

What some of you fail to realize that is in MP, there is such thing as a split-second lag... So when you think you are hitting someone, it may show on your screen but the server is in fact a split-second ahead of you, in which case they moved, avoiding the damage..

Well if you're right than that's the case.As you know,I'm from a faraway land half-a-world away from the US of A,and lag is always a problem.I play with 500+ ping everytime,guaranteed.

Actually playing with yellow stance is not hard.It's just that the damage and the lag I get that slows me down.While I was playing with 20ping(strange,I wasn't even in a server of my homeland),I managed to score a few frags.

Cooler?

hehe yeah Prime, im kinda odd u know :band:

Originally posted by WarteX
hehe yeah Prime, im kinda odd u know :band: Well then that explains everything :)