Should media providers make available to the public film or photos of prisoners of war?

Donald Rumsfield says it is a violation of the Geneva Convention rules concerning prisoners.


If they are made available would you look at them?

I would look at them, but I think it's wrong. What if they are being mistreated (which I am sure they are)?

The family of those captured doesn't want to see them hurt, I'm sure.

I guess it is no different then the coverage of Sept. 11th though.

It depends to a certain degree.

I feel it's a government conspiracy to hide the truth that there are prisoners, that they're in mortal danger and that some of them have been executed.

On the other hand, I also feel it's humiliating to show video photage of them in their piss poor condition.

Well, any TV stations that air them are breaking a Geneva Convention rule and would be tried for war crimes. But yes, I would watch them but I wouldn't enjoy it.

Why is it assumed that they are being treated badly? From what I see, that is the sentiment here on the boards.

Also, I think that the Geneva convention violation has something to do with them being humilitated. Either that section, or the section pertaining to protection from public curiosity. Sounds odd, but that would seem to pertain to showing them.

Yes I think it would. They were humiliated by the Arab TV stations showing them so what is the difference of a US station showing them again to the world?

I have seen the allied troops showing pics and videos of captured iraqi prisoners of war. I don't think both sides treat their pows the same way tho :(

Geneva Convention, Baloni Convention...you think a guy like Saddam actually CARES about that? Heck, he and his adminstration are going to do whatever it takes to win this war, including very bad things people don't like to see or imagine done to someone. Rumsfeld needs to stop playing by his set of rules and START playing by the Iraqi government's set of rules (which is essentially no rules).

*ranting directed at Rumsfeld's ignorance, in no way I am trying to offend any LFers*

if ya cant beat em your way ... become them?!

hmmmmm sounds a little dodgy but that is essentially what ur saying wassup

i personally would look, but im nosey. the media goes too far even here. its not our rite to see our own prisoners of war, and just because they are there doesnt mean tv should air them.

Originally posted by wassup
Geneva Convention, Baloni Convention...you think a guy like Saddam actually CARES about that? Heck, he and his adminstration are going to do whatever it takes to win this war, including very bad things people don't like to see or imagine done to someone. Rumsfeld needs to stop playing by his set of rules and START playing by the Iraqi government's set of rules (which is essentially no rules).

That's not a healthy decision, if you expect your country to come out of this conflict looking like the moral victors.

America has acted dirty in the past, but I'm will to forgive if they for once could just handle the aftermath like the rightful liberators they're trying to emulate.

Ditto what C'Jais said. Look at the way the commanders treated the captured taliban. They were pretty ruthless then.


I heard on the news that the Iraqi Army was indeed following the rules of the Geneva convention. Despite what everyone thinks, they possibly may very well be following the geneva convention rules and regulations.

well they didnt execute them, they just scanned them they didnt put them on the spot, also most of the afgganni soldiers werent military and dont apply to the geneva convention.

Originally posted by daring dueler
also most of the afgganni soldiers werent military and dont apply to the geneva convention.

Afghan soldiers were not our enemies during the war on terrorism. Only the terrorists. ;)


If someone is fighting in a war, and they are captured by the enemy, well, that's POW scenerio enough in my book.

Ok...sorry I guess I didn't phrase that last part well enough.

I just want Rumsfeld to start waking up and stop complaining about how Iraq is not following the rules of war or whatever. I didn't neccessarily mean for the US to actually use the same sort of tactics. I just want the US to recgonize these dirty tactics and be prepared for any sort of conflict, clean or dirty, but not neccessarily fight dirty to counter these tactics. Sorry for the misconception.

The US propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters.

The gall of rumsfeld to exagerate the mistreatment of US pows by the Iraqis is off the scale.

At the same time they dismiss and ignore the international standards of treatment of prisoners we hold.
We hold the Guantбnamo detainees in very harsh conditions, most of them confined alone to tiny cells for 24 hours a day and allowed to "exercise" in shackles for only 30 minutes a week -- conditions which Amnesty International say amount to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international standards. The detainees remain , unable to challenge the lawfulness of their detention, and with no indication as to how long they might be so held. There have been numerous suicide attempts. Family members are subject to the emotional distress of not knowing how their loved ones are being treated, why exactly they are being held, or when or if they will see them again. the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the most authoritative body on the provisions of the Geneva Conventions say photographs of the detainees in orange jumpsuits, kneeling before U.S. soldiers, shackled, handcuffed, and wearing blacked-out goggles over their eyes and masks over their mouths and noses is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers. Who by the way should get to see a Redcross rep soon. How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None.

Rumsfelds excuse for all of this? OH, the people we hold are not POWs so we don't have to respect the law when it comes to them. But according to US law & the Geneva convention, only the legislative branch of goverment has the authority to issue non pow status. But Bush the exectutive branch issued this determination. Just another blatant hypocrisy to add to the long list. Bush is detroying our honor.

Griff, as we know by now, the US can choose just how much they're feeling like applying to the Geneva convention and International court of War Crimes.

The latter is very sad, really.

well i do beleive that we dont control the geneva convention, but its not like our soldiers are reading it before they engage, if someone is there and shooting at them, they are as good as dead, the army soldier wont fallow it when his life is in danger. he'll just shoot the hell out of the bad guy, as it should be.

Originally posted by griff38
The US propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters.

The gall of rumsfeld to exagerate the mistreatment of US pows by the Iraqis is off the scale.
No there just being EXICUTED. na..... your right its off the scale..
Originally posted by griff38
At the same time they dismiss and ignore the international standards of treatment of prisoners we hold.
We hold the Guantбnamo detainees in very harsh conditions, most of them confined alone to tiny cells for 24 hours a day and allowed to "exercise" in shackles for only 30 minutes a week -- conditions which Amnesty International say amount to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international standards. The detainees remain , unable to challenge the lawfulness of their detention, and with no indication as to how long they might be so held. There have been numerous suicide attempts. Family members are subject to the emotional distress of not As for this a few may be innocent, but for the most part screw them. They aren't being beat and are getting feed so what if they don't have color TV and cable. Most if given the opertunity would try to claw your eye out with there fangers. Hell I get that where I work..... Maybe you would like it better if we let them all out and gave them a pilot licenses huh.... If anything this country is to dam lax on criminals as a hole let alone terrorist, whom most are innocent tell they crash a plane or set off a bomb. Than its is to late to put them in prison or on trial there dead and they KILLED your wife a children at the same time.

Oh and "griff38" thoughs guys the TERRORIST are kneeling before aren't U.S. Soldiers. They are U.S. MARINES.....

Originally posted by griff38
is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers. Who by the way should get to see a Redcross rep soon. How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None.


Hmm dam I can't stop getting pissed off at your post. "Is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers" No they're showeing them with bulet holes in there heads on Al Jizzera. Wonder how much good a Red Cross Rep. is going to be for the ones that were exicuted assuming all of them haven't been.

"How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None." Ha Ha Ha lol lol lol lol lol oh ha ha ha ha......ha ha ha

No we just waist all our time and tax money operating on them dam bastereds.

Looks to me like your propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters. DAM HIPPIE:mad:

Easy, Jack ,easy.... ;)

Debate your point without the name calling. ;)

hippie! lol
anyways i do agree with you jack, their soldiers we captured are certainly getting aid from red cross or at least usmc medics. its common ground, we always did even in ww2 we did treat some germans, and others.the iraqis just kill their pows, now thats a nice thing to do isnt it? and the last i checked they have 12 of our men(12 too many, i pray for them)we have ohh what 3,000! and we manage to bandage them up, then interrogate,who knows they very well may torture the officers for info, but its not on tv.

In general, I disagree with the whole "televised war" thing. I have to admit, I'm watching it, but there's something about it that doesn't sit right. Whether it's the prisoners of war on the Iraqi or the coalition side, whether it's an embedded reporter giving an account of the day's battle... what have you.

I think the main reason for embedding journalists was to provide realtime information to CentCom as well as to propagate the coalition sentiment as being just. I don't, however, think we're seeing an unbiased report in most cases. Reporters shouldn't offer analogies, metaphors, and simalies when reporting facts. They should offer facts. I recently read a headline that said, "Sandstorm of Biblical Proportions." I hear reporters talk of "mowing or cutting down the enemy" when it should be the enemy was engaged and killed.

The point is that there is a reality to the war we don't see. It is bloody. It is gruesome. Soldiers (and Marines, Jack ;) ) feel emotions on the battlefield that cannot be described by an untrained (in battle) reporter.

Should POW's be shown on television?.... that's a many sided issue. On one hand it may be against the Geneva Convention that stipulates that governments cannot "humiliate" prisoners of war. The problem there is, Al Jazeera is an NGO (non-governmental organization). Is it subject to the Geneva convention? I think answering questions on the air and having my dead corpse paraded to the world is humiliating. Just showing my image would be reassuring to my family if I were shown alive and well.

I think when we go kick Kim Jung Il's butt, we should have the war coverage contracted out to only one network. Let the beer companies devise clever adverts and put the live stuff on Pay-Per-View. Maybe that'll help pay for the whole thing and Congress won't have to be bothered for several billion $ [/sarcasm]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Oh and "griff38" thoughs guys the TERRORIST are kneeling before aren't U.S. Soldiers. They are U.S. MARINES.....


Don't lecture me about Marines jr, I was humping a pack while your mommy was still changing your dirty diapers. Ive spent more time pissing out the back of a Ch-53 than you have at your keyboard.

Your arguments are so weak they generally don't deserve a response, however you have insulted me 1 too many times.

Plenty of people in here disagree without personally insulting each other, why should you be the exception?

Whoah - calm down people.

Be nice to each other, or I'll be forced to close yet another thread.

Cheers -C'

Originally posted by griff38
Don't lecture me about Marines jr, I was humping a pack while your mommy was still changing your dirty diapers. Ive spent more time pissing out the back of a Ch-53 than you have at your keyboard.

Your arguments are so weak they generally don't deserve a response, however you have insulted me 1 too many times.

Plenty of people in here disagree without personally insulting each other, why should you be the exception?
Well OLD MAN OF THE MILITARY. Sounds to me like there are to posibilities for you :D 1.. Your a real bitter little b@stered twords the US ......( I'm not however )..... 2.. You have had a sex change sence you got out and all you can do is cry about the bad.... bad.... bad.... USA.

In all actuality alot of people on here have said rude things to me, don't like me very much, and being me I don't really care to much. I have nothing against them. On the other hand there is you and you get a speacial place in my heart:rolleyes:
Originally posted by griff38
Your arguments are so weak they generally don't deserve a response, however you have insulted me 1 too many times. Your Arguments are so stupid they generally have to have a responce. How many insults is this now :D

To the moderators... I'm sorry for all the hate and discontent I couse......no seriously........

1. more thang there griff3. Insted of worring about the enemy prisoners we have in custidy. Why don't you worry more about the American Military that are getting shot at and kill and captured. Most of them think they should be over there, becouse they think they are fighting for a idea of whats right. Alot of them think they shouldn't be there for whatever resions, but they are doing it anyway and ther're not crying about it.

They get my respect not you sorry.....

Well I would decide to join this again but... jack... i'm gonna have to report you. :(

Article 13 in the Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of prisoners of war states that POW's must be protected from public curiosity. So, I reckon that would mean no T.V. time for any POW's.


And I just want to say that griff38 is the saltiest. :)

Take a vacation for 2 days, Jack.

Come back when you feel better. But for now, you're banned for flaming. You should listen to warnings, thats what they're there for. :)

i have a question for griff, by your poste, does that mean you were in the military, or just a history buff who studies military alot?

1 more thang Griff38!

Told ya! :D LOL

By the way, Daring D., Griff and I both have a considerable amount of time behind us with the military. I'm retired Army. I don't know if he retired or not, but I believe he was in the Marines a ways back.

There are actually a lot of old (it's not the age, it's the mileage that counts) military types that are very vocal about the way the government pisses away the freedoms we fought for and believed in.

We're still in it for our country... even if the current regime isn't.

Yes I am X-Marine. Could tell you some crazy stories! I don't like to say retired, because I didn't make a career out of it.

But I served in peace time, Skinwalker is a Combat veteran.
Iam sure his perspective about all this is better than most of us.

If my post were too provocative I apologize.smartasses run in my family, still I am sure if we were all sitting in a room together this would not happen.



Heels together, feet at a 45 degree angle, thumbs along trousers seams, stomach in, chest out, shoulders back, chin up, eyes straight!

Originally posted by griff38
smartasses run in my family
Yours too?


And if you read this thread when you get back Cosmos jack.....
. Insted of worring about the enemy prisoners we have in custidy. Why don't you worry more about the American Military that are getting shot at and kill and captured

Maybe he worries about all of them eh?

Originally posted by obi-wan13
Take a vacation for 2 days, Jack.

Come back when you feel better. But for now, you're banned for flaming. You should listen to warnings, thats what they're there for. :)
I'M BACK.......
Just to be the irritable SMARTASS I am :D There is a horrible flaw in this banning thing you know; however, out of respect for my humble banner. I will not post tell my ban is lifted like the weight of the bourdon of the truth from certain peoples chests :rolleyes:

Assuming it will be lifted. I liked the old Screen Name better than this one or the next one there nothing alike.........Oh I had just made it to pit droid for whatever good that is.

OK, I finally aquired the unedited complete with sound, clip of the alledged executions of US soldiers.

No US soldiers are filmed being killed. The video is clearly the aftermath of a firefight of some sort.
I will say this: the US captured prisoners are indoors, bandaged, sitting and or laying and they are not bound or handcuffed in any way.

Nothing about the treatment of the live US soldiers on camera can be viewed as cruel or inhuman.

However, the Iraqis apparently do not have the same respect for the dead. The camera lingers way too long on the death wounds and faces of the corpses. The bodies are thrown helter skelter all over each other in a tiny room. This is the infamous footage that some claim indicates executions by shots to the head.
I am sure this did not happen, these poor soldiers have all types wounds all over their bodies, and black scorching. At the end of the video they pan across what looks like several large US vehicles upside down. I believe almost all the dead US soldiers were killed by some type of explosion that flipped these huge vehicles.
This would explain the horrible burning and wounds, executions would not.

Also you made have seen the still shot from the video of a hemlet clad soldier lying on the road near the crane truck with the water buffalo behind it. The video pans this scene back and forth and it's clear its a staged scene. The body appears to have been dragged from the cab of the truck and laid out in the road.
From the video evidence I would say this is the only soldier that clearly died from gun fire.

I have this 7.5 meg video on my hard drive and would consider making it available to anyone over 18. If you are and want to see it send me a PM.