Is gaining enough xp to make you a Level 14 Dwarf evil?

Do you work? Do you know how many people have died because of money?

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Umm C'jais were'nt you the one that told me that you had only read a couple of versus in the Bible, specifically Genesis Chapter 1. All your other info you're getting is from that skeptics website that tries to show that the whole Bible is a contradiciton.

And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:

14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

3:14
Thou didst strike through with his staves the head of his villages: they came out as a whirlwind to scatter me: their rejoicing was as to devour the poor secretly.

19:24
Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

:13
And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

21:23
And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.

20:2
Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Or is just me interpreting the holy text differently from the norm?

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Also, I have done alot of research in the occult, and there are several things in the D&D game that does have satanic backgrounds and rituals.

Then show us already.

You're "just a player", I'm someone who knows the big picture.

Yes, those that actually participate in the activities tend to know what it's really about. It's about teamwork - there are no winners or losers. It's about creatively building a convincing world.

I have no pity for those who project God and Satan into everything.

Originally posted by FunClown
Is gaining enough xp to make you a Level 14 Dwarf evil?

You truly don't understand roleplaying games at all.

You work in a team. You all work together. Traps and monsters are challenges and puzzles to overcome. They're part of a believable world that makes it fun to play. But roleplayers are able to dinstinguish between the real world and the game.

Don't tell me it's satanical to kill stormtroopers in Jediknight because they promote killing in the real world. It's the same flawed logic.

Do you work? Do you know how many people have died because of money?

I work quite a bit, but why has money got anything at all to do with RPG's? Oh, experience points are just an object of greed, right? And so is money? Play the game and get back to me after that.

People die over money. News at ten.

Do you know how many people die from living?

Cjais, I've watched people play D&D. My comments were targeted at RPTheHotRod.

How were my comments against roleplaying.

Don't tell me it's satanical to kill stormtroopers in Jediknight because they promote killing in the real world. It's the same flawed logic.

I work quite a bit, but why has money got anything at all to do with RPG's? Oh, experience points are just an object of greed, right? And so is money? Play the game and get back to me after that.

People die over money. News at ten.

Do you know how many people die from living?

I was saying that people have been killed over money as well as over rpg's. So do we stop earning money then since its evil? Churches ask you to donate money. Is the church evil for asking for something that many have died over? Money in itself is not evil.

Cjais, I would say get a grip, I never said roleplaying was satanical, I didn't say that? And why are you answering my pro-roleplaying questions with rhetoric as though I'm anti rpg?

Please don't assume my stance on issues.

I think he confused your post. No big deal.


Satanic means of Satan, right? And Satan is the name for the fallen angel that reigns in Hell, according to the Bible, right? Soooooo, maybe you could show us any D&D or rpg game that has Christianity as a religion, and promotes God as a god, and in turn Satan would be what? In the Bible he is but an angel, are angels also part of D&D as well?

Originally posted by The Unholy Fruitcake
And he shall snatch on the right hand... Snatch is one of the coolest words in the world! I wish you had a chapter:verse for that one, that one made me laugh!

Originally posted by munik
Snatch is one of the coolest words in the world! I wish you had a chapter:verse for that one, that one made me laugh!

I'm sorry, it must have slipped. But I can give you the site. (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com)

To the right, you can see some categories, such as sex, insults to women, false prophecies etc. Find the one called "cruelty" and have fun - it brings up all the parts in the Bible where God or his followers under command from God (or sheer perversity) commited heinous acts of bloodshed. Such as Moses killing another person, and God killing all innocent animals on earth because humans failed.

Funclown: Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Apology accepted Cjais.

I thought that all that D&D "made the kid kill" stuff turned out to be an urban legend?

I think it's interesting that once something is labeled "satanic" that it automatically becomes this evil thing. It's interesting how one cult so easily makes practices they disagree with out to be "cultish."

I respect religeous cults for the good that they do, but I'm also skeptical about their motives, historical and contemporary. People like Chick subvert religion for their own egos. I'm reminded of the popular "WWJD" phrase that went around recently: What would Jesus do? If Jesus existed (and evidence suggests that he did), and if he lived up to the values that are assigned to him today, I don't believe he would harbour as much hatred as I've seen in people like Chick. I've even seen this kind of hatred within personal aquaintances who purport to be "christian."

This hatred is often subtle and low-key today, but it exists. That, seems contrary to the teachings of Jesus, and therefore reduces the validity of the religion.

I am offended by the ethnocentrism of religions like islam and christianity.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
the Dungeons and Dragons (the actual game) does have several satanic involvments (worship your "god" or "demon", call to it for help, blood sacrifice in-game, etc).

Oh you mean like offering up the newborn baby to God and promising to brainwash it into doing exactly what the priest says?

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
It caused alot of people playing to lose concept of reality. People have killed over it, including themselves.

It is more dangerous to:

Travel 1 mile

Be religious

Smoke (ok, not saying much)

Eat dinner

Play the computer

Having unprotected sex

Having a constitutional right for every civilian to bear a firearm

than playing D&D, or infact any other RPG. And I'm willing to bet a lot of pts on that.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
I remember one isntance where 2 brother played it alot. The brother that was the Dungeon Master told his other brother to shoot him with a shotgun, to prove ti others it couldn't harm him.

But sourceing this ridiculous nonsense is below your dignity or what?

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
However, when it comes to RPGs like, eh... Dark Age of Camelot, EverQuest, Anarchy Online, or even a few board games

Like HeroQuest, Baldur's Gate, Warhammer, ect? Sorry but you have not even the most basic understanding of what RPGs are, mein Freund.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
... though some of it may have a satanic background (magic),

If I wanted to (and was able to, which I am not because it is impossible) summon and cavort with Daemonettes in my basement at night and worship Slaneesh at day, it would be my business, not yours. Christianity has no right to monopolize religious worship. That aside there is no actual religious worship involved in RPGs. Sure, ingame, but after all you can't create a primitive world without religion, because that wouldn't be consistent.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
I am mature enough to not let some stupid game alter my concept of reality.

And you don't trust other people to be too? BTW: It's not that stupid. I learned most of my English reading the D&D Second Edition Corebooks.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
To me, EverQuest is a game, I play for fun. I don't start worshipping Tunare.

But you do worship God. What is the exact difference? (No offence intended to any Christians, but that was just too tempting.)

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
I have never played board RPG games though, because many are dangerous (proven), and I just don't think it's worth the risk.

Show me the proof that you claim to have.

BTW: It's perfectly fine fore you to isolate yourself from a wonderful hobby, but if you ever have kids remind me to ship them a copy of Vampire: The Masquerade.

Allah is depicted 'as a severe judge and is not depicted as loving.'

Crossref: Inquisition, Crusades, KKK, Northern Ireland, Inner Mission, Jehowa's Witnesses, ect.

Here's an example for ya
[example removed due to utter lack of worth]

Why is it that Christian websites almost always have worthless, flashy, coloured stuff instead of cold, hard, factual information? If I want to look at nice pictures (of beaches, happy kids and the like, not what you were thinking), I go to the website of a travel agency.

btw, most RPGs that people lose their concept of reality (and if you say it's untrue, you have NOT done research in D&D. I can pull up some stuff on it when I get home if you wish)

No I've just played it. And read this site (www.theescapist.com).

are just components on excercising something that causes them to start "going weird".

Crossref: Counterstrike, Doom, Rainbow Six, ethanol, jealousy, driving, religion, violent movies like James Bond, a gun in every home, ect.

Yes, hundreds of people have died due to the D&D game. That's why it's so controversial now.

I seriously doubt that we are talking hundreds, and those who have turned out bad have been uniformely dysfunctional or junkies even before they started playing. And may I remind you that thousands have died or been tortured and tenfold that number been driven mad by religious worship, but that's not controversial (exept where it is obviously lucredicious, like Creationism).

Never said D&D players are satanists [...] I said it does have some satanic stuff in it.

Like?

(there you go again, putting words in other people's mouth)...

Which you never do mister holier-than-everyone-else?

"A grotesque God that kills innocent women and children for not believing in him."

God doesn't kill people for unbelieving. He gives everyone free will. However, sin does have a penalty, and THAT'S why people get...punished.

Oh, gee... The differance being? BTW, C'Jais: When did it become legal to kill men that don't worship you?

Umm C'jais were'nt you the one that told me that you had only read a couple of versus in the Bible, specifically Genesis Chapter 1. All your other info you're getting is from that skeptics website that tries to show that the whole Bible is a contradiciton.

Regardless of what you may think about www.skepticsannotatedbible.com) it does have a full copy of the Bible. And C'Jais and I usually doublecheck with the standardized version, well, I do anyway.

Also, I have done alot of research in the occult, and there are several things in the D&D game that does have satanic backgrounds and rituals.

But you still haven't got even the most insignificant source? And the fact that they've nicked a lot of mythological names: Sure. Why shouldn't they? Should they just make up some new ones, when there have been thousands of years' worth of people who have invented monsters that are ripe to pick and use? What a waste of time that would be. You are confusing mythological names with mythological worship.

BTW: The reason why there are no Christian names in D&D is because the Christain mythology is so damn unimaginative. It can't even come up with a real name for its god.

You're "just a player", I'm someone who knows the big picture. If I can find my book I wrote in about it, I can post it if you want.

I'm just a player who has actually read the books that you are talking about... Which you clearly haven't.

And I would absolutely love to get a copy of your book... Just to find out how exactly you are going to document all those wild accusations you make... But I guess that someone with True Faith 5.2 doesn't need to document what he says.

I thought that all that D&D "made the kid kill" stuff turned out to be an urban legend?

It is: www.theescapist.com).

Here are two passages from real RPG books:

The Inevitable Disclaimer
Vampire: The Masquerade is a game. It's a game that requires imagination, effort, creativity and, above all, maturity. Part of maturity is realizing that Vampire is only a game and that the situations depicted in these pages are strictly imaginary. If you beat somebody at MonopolyTM, you don't go out and foreclose on their house. If you sink someone's BattleshipTM, you don't go down to the Navy Yard and start throwing Molotovs at the boats. The same principle applies to any roleplaying or sorytelling game.
In other words, you are not a vampire. When a game session ends, put away he books, pack away the dice, enjoy the rest of your life and let other poeople enjoy theirs.
For the 99.9999+% of you who are suffieciently welladjusted not to need such a ridiculous disclaimer, have fun.

Vampire: The Masquerade, White Wolf Publishing Inc (http://www.white-wolf.com), 1998 p 18.

This book uses the supernatural for settings, characters and themes. All mystical and supernatural elements are fiction and intended for entertainment purposes only. Reader discretion is advised.

Vampire: The Masquerade, White Wolf Publishing Inc (http://www.white-wolf.com), 1998 p 18.

THIS GAME IS FANTASY
The action of a Dungeons & Dragons game takes place in the imaginations of the players. Like actors in a movie, players sometimes speak as if they were their characters or as if their fellow players were their characters. These rules even adopt that casual approach, using "you" to refer to and mean "your character." In reality, however, you are no more your character than you are the king when you play chess.
Likewise, the world implied by these rules is an imaginary one.

Dungeons & Dragons (3rd edition): Player's Handbook, Wizards of the Coast Inc (www.wizards.com), 2000, p 6.

That's page ****ing 6! Read the stuff before you fling such bull**** across the room.

These silly disclaimers only appear because silly people make silly myths about these games.

The above proves beyond doubt that these games are not harmful, and infact use better English than most people on these boards. In fact the English Board of Education has announced that Warhammer & Warhammer 40k (www.games-workshop.com) promote reading, math, and social skills.

HotRod: It is totally obvious that you have never even seen a roleplaying game book. You are basing your entire assault/insult on hearsay and priesttalk. You are welcome to shut yourself off from the hobby in your little cocoon of faith, but if I am ever informed that you have dissuaded someone from joining it, I will personally send him a copy of Vampire and D&D.

Have fun on my Ignore List.

The rest of you: If anyone is still in doubt as to why I don't like religions, just take a look at HotRod's posts again.

Skinwalker: Glad you're back.

Sorry for the long post.

I'm Christian; do not lump me in with Jack Chick. He's notorious, even in my circle. The guy has made just as many anti-Catholic tracts as tracts about anything else! Just a few months ago a friend of mine brought one of Chick's evolution tracts to youth group so that we could make fun of it!