:maize:
Just saw the first episode last night (Space.net shows it at 9, which handily lines up with the NewRO's idiotic decision to leave an hour between Buffy and Angel :snear: ).
I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised. The show didn't suck quite as bad as I'd feared, though it certainly wasn't high art.
I was actually startled to see the first episode be "actual sized" at one hour. Usually, the successful shows end up with two-hour premieres, but this one wasn't even to be continued.
The characters are recognizable (to any DC fanboy like myself ;) ), though there are a number of dramatic changes, mostly bad, but frequently understandable.
First off, Babs (Barbara Gordon; Oracle to her peons) is surprisingly true to her comic self. The former Batgirl, now crippled by the Joker's bullet (though they changed the actual encounter to sever some comic plot threads)
Pretty much the only change I could spot (not being an actual BoP reader; I only know them by crossovers) is to emphasize her nostalgia for the "running & jumping" part of crime fighting, which is understandable. Oh, they also turned her into a schoolteacher, which is (AFAIK) unusual, but it does fit the character. Aside from that, she's unchanged. She's even wearing the same yellow & green shirt from the comics. ;)
Black Canary (Dinah Lance) received heavier changes. She's now a teenager (in the comics, she's pushing 30, and married [to Green Arrow]), and her metahuman powers are completely altered. Instead of a sonic shriek capable of shattering concrete, she's now a psychometrist --she can read people's minds by touching them (she also has prophetic/farsight dreams). Otherwise, she's a typical college-age girl.
I don't like this, but it does make dramatic sense; as the (canonical) newcomer to Gotham, Dinah gets stuck being the Audience Proxy, the one who asks obvious questions to trigger the plot exposition that non-fanboy viewers will need ("What's a metahuman?" "Who's this guy?" etc). As for the new powers, I assume that's because of budget reasons. The show seems to be fairly low-tech (the re-creation movie Batsuits were just cringe-worthy), and visions are easier to produce than CGI shockwaves.
Huntress got the heaviest makeover, almost becoming a completely different character. This Huntress is the daughter of Batman and Catwoman ( :eyeraise: ), and apparently a metahuman (WTF?!?). Her metahuman power apparently consists of animal senses and super strength. She's supposed to be the major ass-kicker of the show, the one with "sex-appeal" to draw in the adolescent fanboys. She's basically a clone of What's-Her-Name over on Mutant X, only a brunette.
Her costume is another sticking point. Tights, the leather bodice that shows plenty of cleavage, bare arms, and some sort of gauzy vest (to hide the cable rigs for the fight scenes). Comic Huntress by contrast, is one of the few comic book females with a realistic costume; form-fitting cloth (but not spandex) over thermal padding, full sleeves and legs, closed neck, gloves, weapons, reasonable boots, and a little thing we like to call a mask. :roleyess:
Story-wise, it actually wasn't that bad. Apparently the rest of the Bat-family is defunct (Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, and Batgirl II apparently never existed), and Batman himself went missing shortly after Catwoman was murdered (and Babs was shot) by the Joker. Joker's gone too, incidentally.
Nice touches include the city being called New Gotham (Old Gotham was levelled in the comic books, prior to last year's No Man's Land epic). It was also cool to see some movie equipment apparently re-used (Arkham Asylum looks familiar as it should). Whoever they have playing Alfred is no Michael Gough, but looks enough like him to pass (but he over-emotes way too much, IMHO).
I must say, I like this vision of Gotham; it looks like a cross between all four movies, yet still manages to capture the feel of the comics better than any of them.
It was a nice touch to hear Mark Hamill voicing the Joker yet again; someone evidently watches their cartoons. ;)
It looks like the producers are trying to capture female viewers; the girl-talk elements are centre-stage (but not to the point of absurdity), and the fighting and sex-appeal seems only there for tokenism (this is primarily a detective show). I actually think this is a good thing, as most superhero/action-adventure series quickly degenerate into "how much T&A can we show this week?" The girls look good, but not skanky, though no one's really :hearteye:-worthy (IMHO).
The final scene was the only one that really screamed "Chick Flick," and I get the feeling that was done more as self-conscious parody.
Overall, I plan to stick around for a few weeks to see how it shapes up. It's not good or bad at this point. My only real complaints are the tampering with the DCU that's part and parcel of the "write for the ignorant masses" approach to television.
:bat1:
I really wanted to catch this show, but I didn't know when it was on.
I wasn't to sure about the premise at first. I guessed that the WB had so much success with Smallville that they could make another run at a teenage superhero show. When I saw a commercial for it the first time I thought that it would be like a cross between that show with the witches (I forget the name) and smallville, with lots of T&A.
But I am glad I now have the opinion of someone who has seen the show. I'll try and catch it next week. By the way, when is it on?
Originally posted by Kylilin
When I saw a commercial for it the first time I thought that it would be like a cross between that show with the witches (I forget the name) and smallville, with lots of T&A.
Charmed (unless you mean Buffy, with which it has also been compared). Personally, I was worried that it would turn out more like the revoltingly bad Black Scorpion, which Space also shows.
As for when it's on, I can only say "check your local listings." The only channel I can catch it on is Space Channel, and they're Canadian. From what I hear, it may have started a week earlier in the states (in which case you'd be looking for episode 3).
it's on the WB. 9ish i think. i haven't seen it, i only watch The Amazing Race, CSI: Miami, Judging Amy, The Guardian, JAG, Survivor (kinda forced to watch that one...), Original CSI, ER, and Hack, and I also watch smallville, but it probably comes on when all the other shows come on, which is probably the reason why I miss it, so sometimes i watch it on sunday.
I agree with the Charmed comparison, although I'd say plotwise it rates much higher. Charmed has plot holes galore...
I was also pleasantly surprised by the premiere.
I agree with the terrible costumes...although dreamsequence!Batgirl's (Oracle's) looked good. Maybe it was just the grayness.
Huntress seems to be based on an Elseworld ("Earth 2", was it?) Helena Kyle, daughter of Bruce and Selena, Huntress.
I thought it was funny when that old guy recognized her face - she doesn't have the Superman syndrome. ^_~ "Party outfit" indeed.
I saw the second episode last week. It was a mix between great and terrible. The final fight scene was great (except for Dinah), but Dinah's plot development seemed totally shoehorned in (could that episode not have worked just as well or better without her?), and IMHO most of the script-write was weak. =/
However, FB, (I refuse to say BM) you were wrong about the rest of the Bat-family being defunct. Oracle mentioned several of them.
So Joker's just locked away?
So where's old Brucey, anyway?
This series could still go either way, IMO - could either go down the tubes or become really good.
In other news, anyone watch the new season of Angel? ^_^
speaking of Beastmaster, that show (labelled 'beastmaster') is pretty cool. :)
Ironically enough, I don't watch it. Theme music's cool though.
FYI, I took my handle from the Jedi BeastMasters in the TotJ/Old Republic-Era. Imagine my surprise to find out that Mace Windu is actually one of "us." :cool:
Originally posted by Redwing
Huntress seems to be based on an Elseworld ("Earth 2", was it?) Helena Kyle, daughter of Bruce and Selena, Huntress.
The whole show kinda has that "slightly-wrong" Elseworlds look to it. It's cool, just as long as I realize that it's not the "real" DCU.
However, FB, (I refuse to say BM) you were wrong about the rest of the Bat-family being defunct. Oracle mentioned several of them.
In ep 2? I don't recall anything in the premiere, and I was listening for some reference to "CassieBat," who definitely should have been mentioned when Babs mentioned how much she misses "the action."
So where's old Brucey, anyway?
Dunno. Babs said in the premiere that he vanished shortly after Selina died. Apparently, Helena never even got to meet him. Alfred is now ruling Wayne Manor, waiting for either Master Bruce's return or Helena's assumption of "her birthright."
In other news, anyone watch the new season of Angel? ^_^
Hell yes. :cool:
I especially liked his "Champions" speech before he kicked Connor out.
. . . That's why there's people like us.
Champions.
People who live as if the world was as it should be.
To show the world what it can be.
I can so picture him as a Trekkie now. ;)
Originally posted by BeastMaster
In ep 2? I don't recall anything in the premiere, and I was listening for some reference to "CassieBat," who definitely should have been mentioned when Babs mentioned how much she misses "the action."
Ya. As I recall, she named Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and a few others. During some exposition she gave a small list of others like Dinah (trying to justify her presence to Huntress).
Hell yes. :cool:
I especially liked his "Champions" speech before he kicked Connor out.
. . . That's why there's people like us.
Champions.
People who live as if the world was as it should be.
To show the world what it can be.
I can so picture him as a Trekkie now. ;)
Bwahahahahahaha. XD Ever been to the Television Without Pity forums on Angel? The people all over there were all, "Oh GAWD he said the "C" word again" whilst keeling over and dying. :D But I thought it was kewl. ;)
See the last one? The Vegas one? (That had a cool promo, too, unlike next week's...or Ground State's [with the powerful seduction that didn't happen])
Let's try this again. Without the server timing out.
She mentioned Grayson (whose first name can not be uttered here :roleyess: ), Jason Todd, and Tim Drake, which confirms at least that the Robin Dynasty seems to exist here. Which in turn begs the question; where are Nightwing & Robin?
It was odd that she'd invoke Jason Todd though, as it was their training that ended up getting him killed (and made it so difficult for Drake to step in).
Loved Angel, though I'm wondering how much of his memory of Vegas was legit and how much was "vampire at the crucifixion" syndrome to impress the humans. ;)
Now, anybody been tracking Whedon's other baby; Firefly?
lol. Dick Grayson?
:D
I hear Nightwing will indeed show up - but not for a while. Heard nothing about Robin.
lol @ the Vegas memories. Bugsy with the tennis backhand? News flash - you play tennis during the day, generally. :D
Gunn: "You knew the Rat Pack?"
Angel: 'Know 'em! ...No."
BWAH! :D
Watcha think of latest episode? "Slouching Towards Bethlehem".
As for Firefly - seen two episodes, read all the recaps. The first episode was IMHO kinda dull except for the hovertrain robbery (:D) and the ending fight. (namely the knife throw to shoulder [OW!] and Mal kicking Ugly Bad Guy [forgot his name] into the engine after his Obligatory Evil Speech. BWAH! again.)
Originally posted by Redwing
lol. Dick Grayson?
Ah, now I see what you did. Why didn't I think of that?
Watcha think of latest episode? "Slouching Towards Bethlehem".
I think the title comes from W. B. Yeats' The Second Coming:
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?
I won't see it 'til Tuesday night, remember, and Canadian TV doesn't air promos ('cause it eats up advertising time).
As for Firefly - seen two episodes, read all the recaps. The first episode was IMHO kinda dull except for the hovertrain robbery (:D) and the ending fight.
The first aired episode wasn't actually the first episode; Whedon's original (two-hour?) pilot was "too slow" for the suits, so they had him start with this. The real pilot should air sometime soon (framed as a flashback).
People have compared it to what Desilu Studios did to Roddenberry's original Star Trek pilot; The Cage. (Perhaps a good omen? ;) )
The series really picks up when we get into Whedon's typically snappy dialogue and humour.
I especially liked Book's trauma-inducing hair. :nutz3:
RIVERS *hiding*:No, no. . . Too much. . . Too much hair. . .
BOOK: Good L-- Is that what this is about?
ZOE: Hell yes, Shepherd. Shoot, if I didn't have work to do, I'd be in there with her.
Not to mention the fact that Kaylee (the tech girl) is just unbelievably kawaii. :hearteye: 3heart and :heart3:
Originally posted by BeastMaster
I won't see it 'til Tuesday night, remember, and Canadian TV doesn't air promos ('cause it eats up advertising time).
I suspected as much, hence my lack of commenting on it. ^_~
The first aired episode wasn't actually the first episode; Whedon's original (two-hour?) pilot was "too slow" for the suits, so they had him start with this. The real pilot should air sometime soon (framed as a flashback).
Oh...please. Geez. :rolleyes: No wonder it didn't *feel* right...
People have compared it to what Desilu Studios did to Roddenberry's original Star Trek pilot; The Cage. (Perhaps a good omen? ;) )
Hm, I guess we'll know soon enough ;)
The series really picks up when we get into Whedon's typically snappy dialogue and humour.
I especially liked Book's trauma-inducing hair. :nutz3:
LOL. I didn't see that, but I did read about it. :D
Not to mention the fact that Kaylee (the tech girl) is just unbelievably kawaii. :hearteye: 3heart and :heart3:
EEP I thought that was just my imagination - I totally agree. ^^ It's so kewl too that someone that kawaii is a mechanic. ^_^
Saw Angel (while in a bad mood about the absence of a new Buffy). It was cool, though it was primarily setting up the seasonal Big Bad arc (I wonder if it's related to the "From Beneath you it Devours" motif on Buffy).
BoP was cool too, though the huge number of metas present in Gotham struck me as odd. Batman tended to run metas out of town (not being racist, but realizing that their presence could make them targets of any Arkham escapees --imagine any meta dosed with Joker gas).
Besides which, Gibson seemed to suggest that the metahuman concentration in Gotham was a microcosm of the global sample. Either he's misinformed, lying, or something Epic has happened in the past seven years. When Bats was around, metahumans were exceedingly rare (there'd be maybe one or two in a big city).
The sudden population explosion actually makes sense, considering the whole "next step in evolution" idea that metahumans & mutants seem to inevitably lead toward.
Also odd was the fact that The Bat has apparently been forgotten after 7 years. Okay, he was never that widely known anyway; most people thought him an urban myth, and he even avoided JLA publicity moments if he possibly could, but Gothamites wouldn't forget their local legend so quickly.
The mention of Bludhaven was nice (Bludhaven is the mainland part of Gotham; where Nightwing set up shop when he moved out).
As for the Firefly pilot, apparently (going by reviews from online sources) it was about how Doc, Rivers, Book, and Inara came aboard (which means that it'll probably air sometime in the next few weeks, after "Out of Gas" set up Mal, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, and Kaylee this week). It sounded like it was all heavy character work, setting up Whedon's infamous recurring plot threads.
I missed Out of Gas. I really wanted to see it, too. :(
I saw the last one tho. With the dance. It was really shibby. ^_^
My theory? Jesse Reese is new to Gotham. Hell, to any part of the area. I mean, Gibson (who was incidentally a cool character) not only knew about Batman, but he even knew Batman was human. And he was from outside Gotham (didn't catch from where - was it Bludhaven (with funny "u")?)
My problem with BoP right now? The scripting sucks. Everything happens too fast. And there's practically zero angst (which is why I liked Gibson). Neeeeeeeeed angst. ;)
In case you haven't seen the most recent BoP:
Didn't they seem a little thick around the kid? I mean, he was rapidly DYING. And they just gave a buncha platitudes about parenthood that didn't even relate to his situation. Argh!
Get a new scriptwriter and I'll love you, BoP. ^_^
Originally posted by Redwing
My theory? Jesse Reese is new to Gotham. Hell, to any part of the area. I mean, Gibson (who was incidentally a cool character) not only knew about Batman, but he even knew Batman was human. And he was from outside Gotham (didn't catch from where - was it Bludhaven (with funny "u")?)
Yes, it was Bludhaven (and no, I don't know how to do that little thing on the u).
Bludhaven actually isn't outside of Gotham, incidentally; it's just a district. You noticed Oracle's map of Gotham as an island? Bloodhaven is the part of Gotham that's on the mainland. Like the other four borroughs compared to Manhattan.
My main problem with BoP is that it con't decide whether to be the action-packed "TV comic" show or the new age "chickflic" show.
I've got no problem with Grrl Power, certainly (heck, I like some chickflics), I just wish they'd pick a genre and stick with it.
And following the trend of reviving old threads:
By now you probably know what happened to Firefly. Timeslot of Death, pre-empted two-weeks in a row, murdered by Fox. The very last "episode" they showed was the two-hour premiere: Firefly: Serenity, which was indeed a brilliant and well-written beginning to a great series. :disaprove
Oh, and Birds of Prey is dead too. Veritas showed three episodes and has received 0% ratings for two weeks running ('cause it wasn't actually on), meaning that it's probably dead too. Dylan Hunt Saves The Universe (formerly known as Andromeda) has been renewed, but I'm rapidly losing any interest in watching as all the best writers & actors are fired one-by-one. This is probably Buffy's last season. At this rate, the only shows I'll be watching next season are Enterprise and Angel.
Now, back on topic.
I just saw the two-hour "finale" of BoP last night (a week after it was supposed to air, but hey).
First: by now I've come to sincerely like this show. I liked curious Reese, I liked telekinetic Dinah, heck, I'd even become fond of SuperHuntress. I reached that point (predictably), right when the decision was apparently made to kill it.
When that decision came down, the crew had two unfilmed scripts in their laps, so they took the opportunity to do a quick rewrite to tie up the plot and give us a sense of closure.
The finale was actually two distinct episodes that sit back-to-back. Which is cool 'cause it underlines how unexpected this final confrontation is; pretty much everyone is caught completely flat-footed as they're congratulating themselves on another successful case.
End result, Harley is put away, Wade is out of the picture (too bad for Babs, but I don't think she really loved him anyway), and Reese finally gets to see the clocktower.
The only thing I disliked was the whole "Alfred is brainwashed" "Alfred isn't brainwashed" thing. I mean yeah, I knew he'd snap out of it, and it makes sense that Huntress would be carrying that little neuralizer-like flashy thing.
Thing is, Alfred was Bruce's personal confidant. When he offered Harley something from "Master Bruce's personal stock," I thought it was some sort of code. I wouldn't have been surprised if Psycho Control-Freak Batman (with Casual Omniscience action) had planned ahead for this exact eventuality --trained Alfred to resist mind-control, planted tranquilizers in his personal wine supply, set some sort of silent alarm, something.
I really liked the whole "music video" of a final fight (and not just because it was a good song ;) ), as well as getting to see Alfred kick ass alongside Reese, Dinah, and Huntress (he does have RAF special forces training, after all).
:bat1:
Bat-references include the reappearance of a classic villain (and the resolution of Selina Kyle's death/Helena's vendetta).
We also got a cool "bat-guy" reference from Reese, as he's talking to Alfred at the end, the coolness of which was only overshadowed by the Robin reference immediately following it.
The phone call at the end was particularly well-done. I was half-expecting some sort of physical appearance (walking in just a second before the closing credits roll), but this was much more elegant.
It does leave one plot thread open though, almost like they're hoping to be able to come back to the story somehow.