first off I would like to salute all those family and friends of those injured or killed in this trajedy and of course the people themselves. now to the subject do u think this act will result in a war. please give me your comment.
At first I thought it would result in a World War III. But at the time of that writing, I was still under the shock of the news. Now I've settled down and thought about it all as a whole.
If it does result in a war, it will be a small one, because the enemy is only a terrorist group. Not a country, not a province, just a group. A group that hides away, and that hasn't been identified as of yet (to my knowledge).
Still, even if the war itself will be small, the action that caused it is catastrophic, and could be viewed as an apocalypse for many people.
I think these people who r responsible for this act r cowards who kill and hide away, I think they should pay
We find the people who did it, declare war on them, and then bomb the heck out of them. End of story, no world war 3.
yeah, we them and attack them from air and ground, and if possible by sea. Also all this points to Bin Laden, he is the one responsible I think.
Even if a country was responsible. I doubt any country would want to stand in our way of that country. They would know that America is going to devote all resources needed to take that country down. Also another reason why no country would protect them is they don't way thousands of people's blood on their hands to when they shake hands in that allaince.
Good point, fergie, but there are numerous countries that would love nothing more then the USA's destruction. They don't hate us because of politics or economy. They hate us because of our way of life and our social values. They won't care how much blood is on their hands if they believe it is their religious duty.
Now, just because I say all that doesn't mean I think this'll end up as WWIII. All 'Dubya' jokes aside, Bush would not be that stupid as to instigate a war like that. No one in their right mind would. All the war talk we hear from him, is Bush showing his sympathey to all of us, because at one point or another, we all wanted a war or revenge. But, Juliani made a nice statement about this. He said basically, this attack was because of revenge and hatred. If we return this with more hatred and revenge, the cycle will only continue, and we will be as guilty as everyone else. I believe Bush will take a level headed approach and systematically search for the terrorists, rather then using a broad sword and bombing the Afghanistani countryside into the ground.
Originally posted by Gamma732
Good point, fergie, but there are numerous countries that would love nothing more then the USA's destruction. They don't hate us because of politics or economy. They hate us because of our way of life and our social values. They won't care how much blood is on their hands if they believe it is their religious duty.
They don't even compare to our military. We don't have more than a regiment or two deployed into the middle East. Now just imagine a Division or Two. They would be even close to standing against our might. Most likely though it is a terrorist organization. If so we can send in Spec. Ops. (Green Beret or Navy Seals) to assasinate the leader and dissolve the organization. If Afganistan want to stand in our way we could blow them out of the water with a small flick of our military arm of power. Iraqi is the only country that MIGHT try and stop us and be more than a bump in the road. They would only be a big pathole in the road and our Tank/ military won't stumble over that.
If we tried to take a country down over there, I have a feeling China wouldn't really like that. Their a nuclear power and I don't think they especially like us. We can't just walk in and level the place, theres a lot of other stuff that can affect it. The initial countries may be relatively insignificant militarially, but there are other countries in the area that need to be thought of.
Originally posted by Gamma732
If we tried to take a country down over there, I have a feeling China wouldn't really like that. Their a nuclear power and I don't think they especially like us. We can't just walk in and level the place, theres a lot of other stuff that can affect it. The initial countries may be relatively insignificant militarially, but there are other countries in the area that need to be thought of.
They can just suck eggs:mad:
If they do that we can just say...hmmmm...you must be sanctioning terrorist act...hmmm...UN doesn't sanction terrorist act so are you saying you are tring to cross the UN. Are you all for the deaths of Thousands of citizens of the United Staets???:mad:
If they say yes...I wonder what UN would say to an internal UN war???:mad:
Originally posted by darthfergie
They don't even compare to our military. We don't have more than a regiment or two deployed into the middle East. Now just imagine a Division or Two. They would be even close to standing against our might. Most likely though it is a terrorist organization. If so we can send in Spec. Ops. (Green Beret or Navy Seals) to assasinate the leader and dissolve the organization. If Afganistan want to stand in our way we could blow them out of the water with a small flick of our military arm of power. Iraqi is the only country that MIGHT try and stop us and be more than a bump in the road. They would only be a big pathole in the road and our Tank/ military won't stumble over that.
Fergie the US can't assasinate people. :)
If we tried to take a country down over there, I have a feeling China wouldn't really like that. Their a nuclear power and I don't think they especially like us. We can't just walk in and level the place, theres a lot of other stuff that can affect it. The initial countries may be relatively insignificant militarially, but there are other countries in the area that need to be thought of.
China wouldn't dare stand in our way they know we r allready mad about the whole plane thing, but no country can rival the USA it is the ultimate place,but little sneak attacks like this can catch us off guard, but then we will jump on them and destroy them. So any countrys in that area would actually rather side with us since they know we will win.
I don't think this is the begining of world war three because there is no massive conflict.And a massive conflict can be achieved only if two countries that have nuclear arsenal attack theirselves.
First off, China lost people in the World Trade Center.
Second, you cant take out only their leader, if they believe its their religious duty, someone will just replace him. Also, anyone who is part of that group must have had some involvement with the attack and is guilty of warcrimes...they deserve everything they get.
I believe the other middle eastern countries will support us because they know if we don't find out who did id then we will take them all out.
Worf
Originally posted by Crackercho
I don't think this is the begining of world war three because there is no massive conflict.And a massive conflict can be achieved only if two countries that have nuclear arsenal attack theirselves.
Do you really think that is the only way? Or are you reading some thriller right now.
There are enough reasons to start a war. Nuclear weapons are not neccesary for that. WWI and WWII didn't involve nuclear stuff ... They involved a world in war, that's what's needed to start a war.
America, Isreal, Palastine and Afghanisthan are involved already ... It's not a war yet, but wich countries are gonna be next...
If both China and Russia get involved too ... then we are in deep ****.
Originally posted by Young David
Do you really think that is the only way? Or are you reading some thriller right now.
There are enough reasons to start a war. Nuclear weapons are not neccesary for that. WWI and WWII didn't involve nuclear stuff ... They involved a world in war, that's what's needed to start a war.
America, Isreal, Palastine and Afghanisthan are involved already ... It's not a war yet, but wich countries are gonna be next...
If both China and Russia get involved too ... then we are in deep ****.
I think its more along the lines that we are extremely angry at them all right now. Still, Russia would be on our side in a World War at the moment. China may not like us, but i don't think they will stand up to the UN, not after they finally got the olympics. No, i think that this will be a personal dispute between us and the country/orginization involved. It won't involve other countries, and it shouldn't escelate even to the point of invasion.
Originally posted by Tie Guy
No, i think that this will be a personal dispute between us and the country/orginization involved. It won't involve other countries, and it shouldn't escelate even to the point of invasion.
"An attack on one of the members of NATO, is an attack on all of the members of NATO" .. that's what article 5 of one of NATO's somethings. So, if America will be in war ... the world will be in war.
Originally posted by Tie Guy
I think its more along the lines that we are extremely angry at them all right now. Still, Russia would be on our side in a World War at the moment. China may not like us, but i don't think they will stand up to the UN, not after they finally got the olympics. No, i think that this will be a personal dispute between us and the country/orginization involved. It won't involve other countries, and it shouldn't escelate even to the point of invasion.
I'm not sure how fervently Russia will come help us now. While they may help in relief efforts and they do have their own terrorist problems, a sizable amount of Russia's citizens are Muslims. I'm not saying that all Muslims are against Americans, I mean that the Russian leadership doesn't want to take any actions that may upset a large portion of their citizens.
ok first off if china gets pissed were doomed they launch yheir nukes and were toast
im sorry to say this but taking out the leader wont work there will just b others to take over the job and i know alot of u guys are mad because they were civilian targers but thats what were going to have to do were going to have to hit civilian targets so the ppl get mad at the terrorists and stamp them out themselves were in no position to fight a religious war man if there capable of this just think what they are capable of in a war for their god man they would b powerful but i think we would prevail.:)
You're right, just taking out the leaders will not work. If we just take out the leaders all we do is make them martyrs and increase the zealotry of their followers. If we are to take an action against these groups, we should take out the leaders, but we should not stop there. The only kind of response will have to be a complete one. Any terrorist or terrorist sympathizers must be hunted down, otherwise, the cells will only regroup and regrow. Our response must be comprehensive enough to let terrorists know that if they try something like this, they will be apprehended.
yeah and that they will b killed
Yes, who ever did this deserves death... that may sound a bit over the top, but there were as many as 50,000 civilians in those towers...
Well, the CIA is probably already in action.....
I think it was Irak... but there's nothing to prove it.
At first, all pointed to World War III. But after hearing all presidents', ministers', etc. declarations... is the world vs the terrorists or the country... in won't be the huge scale everyone thought it would be.
Its definately not going to be a large scale 'war' as we have seen before. This is a war of ideologies.
Iraq? I'm curious as to how you draw that conclusion, you're the first I've heard even mention them. I'm not bashing you or anything, I'm just interested in your logic here.
ok first off if china gets pissed were doomed they launch yheir nukes and were toast
What r u talking about china does not have nucleor capibility only Us,Russia, and Japan have nucleor capibility so they could not nuke us!!!!!! anyway china will not fight they have a long history of not entering wars, why do u think there r so many people in China?and about there being religous terrisests they would get there ass whooped by our country. All they can do is sneak attack so they could not win. It is as siple as that......
Originally posted by die rebel scum
What r u talking about china does not have nucleor capibility only Us,Russia, and Japan have nucleor capibility so they could not nuke us!!!!!! anyway china will not fight they have a long history of not entering wars, why do u think there r so many people in China?and about there being religous terrisests they would get there ass whooped by our country. All they can do is sneak attack so they could not win. It is as siple as that......
Irak has nuclear power... China could take advantage of a large war to become the most powerful country...
About Irak, Bush Sr. attacked Irak... George W.Bush, is not friendly to Irak, Hussein hates the US... they have good weaponry... Hussein hasn't stated anything definitive about the tragedy...
I don't think China has actual Nukes, but they do have Nuclear secrets.
But If there is going to be "World War III" then it would probably be the UN plus maybe China and Russia vs Afghanistan, so no contest.
no irak does not have nucleor bombs the american goverment has made sure of that so what the hell r u talking about
Ok, guys lets get this straight. China has nuclear weapons. The other countries with nuclear weapons are: USA, Russia, France, UK, Isreal, India, and Pakistan. Iraq, Libya, Iran, and North Korea are suspected to have some type of nuclear capability. Its not just the USA and Russia. Lots of people can have a nuke. Their not very rare any more.
Somebody said that only the US, russia, and japan has nukes, well thats about half right us and russia do have nukes but japan doesn't because after WW2 we said that they can't have a military or any nukes or other weapons of mass destruction, but china does have long range nuke cabilities.
Nope, I looked all those countries up. The sites said that if the countries weren't mentioned, they had no nukes. So, Japan was not on the list.
Nukes can't hit us over here, not for Asia anyways. Why do you think there was a cuban missle crisis? They couldn't hit us from that far away, so they moved closer.
Anyways, Russia may not rush to help us, but they won't fight against us either. Also, BOTH China AND Russia have condemened the attacks, and offer vocal support. So, those two are really out of the equation. Plus, neither of them are allies with Pakistan or Aphganistan.
Also, who cares about nukes! As i said earlier, or maybe in another thread, only an idio with no sense would lanch a nuke. If one fired, then like 20 all around the world would fire, and the maybe more. The world would be close being destroyed, and the cancer rate would be extremely high. That is why we just don't nuke entire bases or fleets of ships. Plus, its not economical.
People, people, think about it, the WTC, a hive of business for many, many, many countries in the world was kamikazed by a terrorist group possibly supported by Pakistan, Palestine, or Afghanistan. Anyway my point is we have 9/10 of the world on our side b/c everyone lost someone or something in the building. China and Japan's economy is also very, very low right now b/c of what they lost there so I have a feeling if they nuke someone it will be the perp! We would have most likely all of the following supporting us:
UK, Ireland, Scotland, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Russia, Central American countries, South American countries, Canada, China, Japan, African countries, and Austrailia.
So, if you consider most of the world allying to level a few countries then yes, I think we may have WWIII, but in my opinion we won't need that much, and this is not the beginning of WWIII.
gamma is right in reference to countries with nuclear capability.
anyhow, here is an interesting quote:
- Co chair of Empower America:
"They killed innocent people yesterday....they(islamic militants) provoked it, asked for it, and they will get it.....
This is a war between democracy versus terrorists, which people, is more than you think. Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world and they are spread out throughout various pockets of global society. As much as i hated saying this in the past, the people responsible will DIE for this. we're not going to bring them to justice, we're gonna bring them to their knees, deservingly so. i'm so pissed and emotional everytime i turn on to CNN and seeing people looking for their loved ones, playing messages of those people's last words, watching over and over again those two planes crashing into the world trade centers. if you've ever been to NYC, those are two outstanding buildings, a world wonder to itself.
The Taliban have plead not to be attacked. i'm sorry to say that if they're harboring this ****** Ladin, that country will be an afterthought.......
Originally posted by Tie Guy
Nukes can't hit us over here, not for Asia anyways. Why do you think there was a cuban missle crisis? They couldn't hit us from that far away, so they moved closer.
Anyways, Russia may not rush to help us, but they won't fight against us either. Also, BOTH China AND Russia have condemened the attacks, and offer vocal support. So, those two are really out of the equation. Plus, neither of them are allies with Pakistan or Aphganistan.
Also, who cares about nukes! As i said earlier, or maybe in another thread, only an idio with no sense would lanch a nuke. If one fired, then like 20 all around the world would fire, and the maybe more. The world would be close being destroyed, and the cancer rate would be extremely high. That is why we just don't nuke entire bases or fleets of ships. Plus, its not economical.
Alright, now during the Cuban Missle Crisis, ICBM's launched from Asia could not hit us. However, that was around 50 years ago. Nowadays, ICBM's from Asia can hit us. And don't discount the use of nukes. Sure, only a madman would use a nuke, but there are some crazy people out there. And the world is not a very large place when you have a nuclear device.
Originally posted by Clefo
But If there is going to be "World War III" then it would probably be the UN plus maybe China and Russia vs Afghanistan, so no contest.
China doesn't exactly like Russia...I think if we do go against Afganistan Russia and U.S. would be the main factors. China might actually condem our attacking Afganistan! I know it doesn't seem likly, but China isn't likly to help us anyway.
NATO IS WITH US!!!
First time they have EVER invoked the Mutual Defense Treaty!!!
KICK THEIR ARSE NATO!!!:mad:
Ok, guys lets get this straight. China has nuclear weapons. The other countries with nuclear weapons are: USA, Russia, France, UK, Isreal, India, and Pakistan. Iraq, Libya, Iran, and North Korea are suspected to have some type of nuclear capability. Its not just the USA and Russia. Lots of people can have a nuke. Their not very rare any more.
There will be no inulting permitted. got it? -rhett
First off Iraq does not have nukes they would of nuked us long ago we made sure that they dont have nucleor missiles I don't know what u don't understand some people u listed do have nukes, but they do not have the rocket propalsion systems to get even close to us..........even close!!!!!and for the last time china does not have nukes!!!!!!!
Originally posted by die rebel scum
R u stupid or just a 6th grader first off Iraq does not have nukes they would of nuked us long ago we made sure that they dont have nucleor missiles I don't know what u don't understand some people u listed do have nukes, but they do not have the rocket propalsion systems to get even close to us..........even close!!!!!and for the last time china does not have nukes!!!!!!!
China HAS Nukes.
Iraq is suspected of having Nukes, but we can not find them.
And he was right, Nukes arn't very rare anymore.
Originally posted by darthfergie
China doesn't exactly like Russia...I think if we do go against Afganistan Russia and U.S. would be the main factors. China might actually condem our attacking Afganistan! I know it doesn't seem likly, but China isn't likly to help us anyway.
Actually China and Russia recently signed a friendship treaty or something like that.
But if there is WW3 its gonna be pretty one-sided
Originally posted by Clefo
But if there is WW3 its gonna be pretty one-sided
That is an understatement clefo. After the first week, there will probably be no other side at all, and its so small already.
Originally posted by die rebel scum
R u stupid or just a 6th grader first off Iraq does not have nukes they would of nuked us long ago we made sure that they dont have nucleor missiles I don't know what u don't understand some people u listed do have nukes, but they do not have the rocket propalsion systems to get even close to us..........even close!!!!!and for the last time china does not have nukes!!!!!!!
First off, I'm not stupid. And if I am, I guess everyone agreeing with me is too. At least I'm in good company. ;) Secondly, I'm in 12th, not 6th.
That being said, it is a known fact that CHINA HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS . Second of all, I said Iraq is suspected of having nuclear capabilities. You're right. Saddam's a madman. If he had nukes we'd probably be dead. We have imposed sanctions and kept an eye on him, but theres no telling if he's hiding anything from us.
And I'm not just pulling these numbers out of nowhere. Go to
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/issues/nuclear_weapons_states.html) They have a list of countries with nuclear capabilities.
Lastly, the intellgent debate is fine, but lets just leave out the name calling.
Saddam also doesn't want to die, hence he won't nuke us until we can't retaliate.
Also President Bush stated he will not make a difference between countries that Harbor Terrorist and The terrorist themselves this means WWIII could happen. Iran, Afganistane, Plastine, Iraq do support them.
Ok, first off, if you guys would read that page that you posted, you would see that it says Iraq is pursuing nuclear capability but is not there yet. Secondly, Israel, Pakistan, and India are suspected to the the capability to make nukes. That is all. China definitely has nukes.
Now back to the point. I totally agree with whoever quoted Mayor Guliani. This was a horrible act of terror and cowardous, but we would be no better than those who committed this horrible act if we responded the way that some of you are suggesting. The following is my personal opinion. I am not sure if public sentiment would allow this to happen. We are country which prides our selves in maintaining order and upholding the law. Well, why is this any different than all the other terrorist attacks in the past. Yes, the magnitude is greater, but tat is like making a difference between a murder who killed one person and a serial killer who has killed a hundred. In the end, the law states tha they are both entitled to their day in court. Now, this is a heinous CRIME and should be treated as such. Thus the persons or people behind this should be apprehended and placed on trial. If we go around killing them and all their associates in some huge military campaign we will gain nothing and most likely lose a lot.
Now, if whatever country this person or people are in will not cooperate, then we have another situation entirely, but thus far that does not seem to be the case. If this was bin Ladin, then I don't think Afghanistan is stupid enough to oppose the whole world.
I think the real issue is how the world will come together in the fight against terrorism. I hope that this trajic act will serve to bring the world together with the determination to stamp out terrorism in a proactive, but legal way. As I mentioned before, this is just my humble opinion, and I am not sure if public sentiment would allow our government to act this way, but I truly hope that our government does not stoop to the level of this horrible people.
A few things.
1. my point still stands Saddam doesn't want to die, and won' t nuke us, if he could.
2.This isn't like anyother crime, this is an act of war, these cowards are extremely fanatical and won't surrender. Military force is the only thing that can be done, especially now. President Bush has stated that we were going to use our military as such if we don't we appear week and open to more attacks.
3.If we kill, the leaders hopefully others will see that if they decide to be terrorist the US will hunt them down. We can't let them get away with only a slap on the hand.
Terrorism is not a simple murder it is a war, we need to fight this as we would fight a war. It will be long, and people will die, mostlikly more Terrorist then Our men.
Also Nato has promised the USA military aid in whatever course of action we do. If we are able to capture the leaders then they should be placed before the Hague on War crime and sumarily executed, or killed right in the camp along with the others, let them disappear.
Also we are not lowering ourselves to their level the military will attack ligetamate targets (ie terrorist cells, and or government installation ) We won't target office buildings, hospitals, schools, or other places were civillians gather. We are just in this quest and we must carry through with it.
die rebel scum: you cannot assure they don't have. Thank God Israel is supporting the US, if they weren't the world would be in real trouble.
Originally posted by Compa_Mighty
die rebel scum: you cannot assure they don't have. Thank God Israel is supporting the US, if they weren't the world would be in real trouble.
Yeah, but if Israel wasn't allied with us then they wouldn't have any of that stuff. He sell them all their airdraft, and supplies, and weapons. they wouldn't have anything without us really, but they won't abandon us. Where are they gonna go, to the muslim nations? I don't think so.
Originally posted by Admiral Odin
A few things.
1. my point still stands Saddam doesn't want to die, and won' t nuke us, if he could.
I wouldn't be so sure about that
2.This isn't like anyother crime, this is an act of war, these cowards are extremely fanatical and won't surrender. Military force is the only thing that can be done, especially now. President Bush has stated that we were going to use our military as such if we don't we appear week and open to more attacks.
but not military...as in large force (Division and up) More like Spec. Ops. and remember after this terrorist has been brought to justice America is still going to keep tighting their grasp on terrorism...Colin Powell said,"this isn't just a battle against terrorism, this is a campiagn."
3.If we kill, the leaders hopefully others will see that if they decide to be terrorist the US will hunt them down. We can't let them get away with only a slap on the hand.
The Shehad doesn't care who is in charge. They are a suicide organization. Most have them have accepted they WILL die.
Terrorism is not a simple murder it is a war, we need to fight this as we would fight a war. It will be long, and people will die, mostlikly more Terrorist then Our men.
Not lilkly. They have probably fortified their area and are more familiar with their environment. We have technology and that is what propelled us through Desert Storm. But now the Middle East has caught up to technology in many repects epsecially through the many Black Markets.
Also Nato has promised the USA military aid in whatever course of action we do. If we are able to capture the leaders then they should be placed before the Hague on War crime and sumarily executed, or killed right in the camp along with the others, let them disappear.
They won't disapear. The ones we execute will become Martyrs to the Shehad and other oganizations out there.
Also we are not lowering ourselves to their level the military will attack ligetamate targets (ie terrorist cells, and or government installation ) We won't target office buildings, hospitals, schools, or other places were civillians gather. We are just in this quest and we must carry through with it.
we won't purposly target them unless they are harboring terrorists.
I'm not pointing out all these things to look glum. I'm tring to be objective and point out hole, even if they are small. I hope you are right on many points. Most likly anything can happen.:(