WARNING, the following contains spoilers aplenty
Oh my God... that movie was 1 hour and 45 minutes of boredom and hell, followed by 30 minutes of confusing action that makes no sense.
It opens up promising enough, but then there's the flat acting (I actually laughed at one of Anakin’s lines it was so corny) Then there’s a very mediocre chase scene. After that it gets worse. Anakin and Padme had ABSOLUTELY NO chemistry, at NO point in time during the ENTIRE film did I ever even come CLOSE to believing they had any feelings for each other at all, let alone that they were in love. Meanwhile Obi Wan is on a detective hunt that amounts to little more than him going from one setting to the next with some painful and flatly delivered expository dialogue.
The one bright spot in the movie up to this point was Jango Fett, much to my surprise. This Boba Fett rip off (I can hear the dorks out there yelling at their computer screens right now that Jango somehow managed to come first) had more personality and life than any of the other characters in this "film" put together. I found myself rooting for this rip off Jango Fett, which is a bad thing because he's A.) one of the antagonists. and B.) it was a minor roll.
So after slugging through over an hour of this convoluted passionless soulless "film" After listening to Anakin unconvincingly proclaiming his love to Padme in cliched dialogue, and Padme turning him down saying it can never be despite how I feel in her trademark monotone voice. (that romantic subplot is the ULTIMATE example of show not tell) my battered psyche is craving something emotional, something real, something other than these cardboard cutouts of characters. I ALMOST get it. Anakin's mother dies in his arms after being abused by tusken raiders. An enraged and pained Anakin coldly walks out of the hut she was held captive in, kills two tuskens in cold blood, I think "Ahhhh, finally here is some raw passion, we shall see Anakin's darkside roots with our own eyes" Anakin raises his sword over his head ANGRILY, preparing to SLAUGHTER the tuskens who have just killed his mom... annnnnnnnd........... CUT to cartoon CG Yoda spouting off expository dialogue about how something bad has happened. And I can not forgive George Lucas.
At this point every time there's a new scene and somebody starts talking some more I just groan and slump in my chair. I've just experienced 1 hour and Forty Five minutes of bland acting and bland dialogue with pretty backgrounds and I don't care anymore. I just want to see something happen, and I do. 30 minutes of confusing mess. The best way I can describe it is obscene visual gluttony. I don't even know what happened, my attention is much longer than .4 seconds. there were a lot CGI cartoon monsters, and robots. Ani and Padme fall into a cartoon acme factory and bugs try to kill them... for some reason... there was this Count Dokou. he's in league with bugs building robots to try and overthrow a government, but he's really building clones to fight the robots for the guy he's in league with who really is the guy who is in control of the government, And they're trying to kill Padme... for some reason... Only Yoda shows up with all of a dead Jedi's clones after having decided to ditch the whole at Peace and in touch with the force thing. Shooting goes on, a lot of shooting, and Yoda ordering things blown up and it's all convoluted and it's exactly like something a 11 year old would write, which is OK, because it felt like 11 year olds acted this movie out for their school play anyway.
Some other points...
1.) Who are the main characters of these films? In the first one Obi Wan didn't do very much and I think it was Qui-Gon, but he dies. Now it's... Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme? but Yoda saves the day, and I was rooting for Jango Fett???
2.) CG... everything looks like cartoon... Coursant(sp?) = looked like a cartoon. Yoda = looked like a cartoon. Gladiator arena monsters = looked like cartoons straight outta Monsters Inc.
3.) Now, exactly what function did C3-PO and R2 serve in that movie? They served no real pourpose. Why write them in??? Wasn't Owen Lars upset when Anakin stole his droid? Was there any reason at all to write them in there other than to cram one more thing in that mess?
4.) I know I've went over this already, but MAN was there ever a romance that felt more forced and unconvincing than that??
5.) I want ONE person to take a good long look at R2 FLYING around and then try to tell me Lucas knows what he's doing. that movie felt like it was written and directed by a fourth grader
As far as the CG's looking cartoonish I sorta see where your going. but I chose to see the buildings in their futuristic type appearence and that they were somewhat clean looking as opposed to the grungy and depressing look of the buildings of our time.
And I wholeheartedly agree with you on the C-3P0 and r2-d2 connection here which draws back to episode 1. Yes the droid repaired the shields and earned your commendations but that means it will remain by your side for the remainder of your life? I felt the chemistry between the two droids was exactly like the banter they had in the older trilogy, except they hardly knew eachother. They acted like good friends when truthfully they briefly met in episode 1 and the had just been re-united after ten years and were having another chat. Their chemistry didn't make sense to me, given time it would but it was instantanious. I thought the rocket pack was cool but again maybe if this wasnt a prequel. How many situations would that rocket pack have come in handy in episodes 4-6. anyways thats besidde my point it was the friendship of the two droids that seemed off to me. maybe there was time to develop that we didnt see but it didnt seem like that to me.
Hey, heres a nice idea: Go make a better movie because you obviously know exactly how to make hit movies!
Originally posted by felony
Hey, heres a nice idea: Go make a better movie because you obviously know exactly how to make hit movies!
Wanderer, I've got some crayons and a scrap book! We could make it a success!
I hate to say this... but i actualy do think i know how to make a film better than George Lucas does any more...
this film jumps all over the place and has things that exist for no reason.
Dooku could quite happily not existed at all.
His only point is to go build an army with the trade federation, something that Sidious could have done himself.
in the first movie sidious deals with the bad naughty people himself, but in this one he needs some dude to do it.
the only other reason he is in the film i can think of is sometihng that kind of has a point. So that Anakin etc can fight him and they all think that he is the bad guy leaving sidious from blame.
BUT couldnt some random race of people just amassed an ARmy and tried to kill everyone? that was the plot of episode 1.
?
The film was so long, and this charaacter was totally crap and pointless, he could quit ehappily have been removed.
You just dont care about any of the characters, there is no real passion / friendship between any of them, at no point are you on the edge of your seat.
look at that fight between vader and luke in cloud city.. how ****ing good is that?? and now we watch some half assed fighting between some random dude and crap actors. Mark hamil was a crap actor, but that didnt seem to get in the way of the film, which it does with Anakin.
the only good bits are the darkening of anakin and the parts with lead onto other films.
analyse this film as a one off, without seeing any other episode you would be dumbfounded trying to understand it, all the others can be watched one off.
draw all you want from it, make your excuses.
with time i will hate this film less, seeing smaler details of small things that will bring it up a bit in my eyes. but it will not be enough to counter act all the unnecessary bollocks.
"I'm built for protocol not destruction! "
what a **** head.
Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to fear. Fear leads to death.
Hopefully the death of Lucas so someone competent can write and direct the last 4 movies. :P
He's never going to go back to the original model spacecraft which looked FAR superior to the CGI ones. And what happened to the music? The music in episodes 4-6 was amazing, some of the best ever seen in a film. The music in episdoe 2 is bland and instantly forgettable.
Originally posted by felony
Hey, heres a nice idea: Go make a better movie because you obviously know exactly how to make hit movies!
I HAVE made better movies than ep2. but then, so could an ape.
Duder, LOVE the crayon idea!!!
www.gmppictures.com)
And what happened to the music? The music in episodes 4-6 was amazing, some of the best ever seen in a film. The music in episdoe 2 is bland and instantly forgettable.
episode1 had good music too :) i like duel of the fates, that end light sabre duel is far superior to the one is ep2.
Originally posted by Spaff
I hate to say this... but i actualy do think i know how to make a film better than George Lucas does any more...
this film jumps all over the place and has things that exist for no reason.
Dooku could quite happily not existed at all.
His only point is to go build an army with the trade federation, something that Sidious could have done himself.
in the first movie sidious deals with the bad naughty people himself, but in this one he needs some dude to do it.
the only other reason he is in the film i can think of is sometihng that kind of has a point. So that Anakin etc can fight him and they all think that he is the bad guy leaving sidious from blame.
What are you talking about. The whole story line with Palpatine/Sidious is how he is manipulating others to accomplish his vision. Sidious didn't deal with anyone directly except for the Viceroy. He had to do that instead of someone else or we wouldn't have been able to be introduced to him. The whole trade federation thing in Ep I didn't make as much since until we discover that the whole conflict was created and manipulated just to get Palpatine the Chancellor title. I
think Dooku played a great role. Palpatine used him to do all the dirty work. The Jedi know about Dooku now, but they still don't know about his mysterious master as you alluded to above. Also remember that Dooku didn't die in Ep II. How do you know what plans Lucas has for him in Ep III? He could have a major part in the plot? For example, is he the one that could possibly kill Padme?
BUT couldnt some random race of people just amassed an ARmy and tried to kill everyone? that was the plot of episode 1.
?
The film was so long, and this charaacter was totally crap and pointless, he could quit ehappily have been removed.
Read comment above on his character. Concerning the army. Did you not get the revelation at the end of why Dooku did what he did?
Did you not realize that Sidious, using Dooku, was playing both sides of the fence. Sidious using another puppet ( or possibly Dooku) started creating an army 10 years before the movie to fight another army from the separatists that he helped form. So basically, Sidious had his hand in creating both armies just to start the civil war and get Palpatine ( his alter ego) unlimited powers basically making the Republic a dictatorship. The war will also be used to wipe out the jedi who are his only real enemy.
look at that fight between vader and luke in cloud city.. how ****ing good is that?? and now we watch some half assed fighting between some random dude and crap actors. Mark hamil was a crap actor, but that didnt seem to get in the way of the film, which it does with Anakin.
the only good bits are the darkening of anakin and the parts with lead onto other films.
Omg! The actual fight between Luke and Vader in ESB was no where as the nice as the fight at the end with Dooku. The point of the fight in ESB, was to let us see how much more powerful Vader was than Luke and for Vader to tell Luke he was his father.
The fight also showed us why Yoda was considered the master! Everyone was always measuring themself to Yoda. Even palpatine compared Anakin to Yoda when he was talking to him. It was nice to see in person why everyone thought they way they did. Yes, they could have done with out the Bruce Lee pose, which was a little funny and the CG could have been better, but we found out right then and there why they were saying what they were saying. Dooku had already beat Obi and Anakin and Yoda layed the smackdown on him and he ran.
Also, it was a nice tie in with Obi during the talk with Yoda when you realize that Dooku was Yoda's apprentice, Qui Gon was Dooku's apprentice, Obi was Qui Gon's apprentice, and Anakin was Obi's apprentice. That right there is 5 generations of Jedi. I found that interesting.
"I'm built for protocol not destruction! "
what a **** head.
Geez. That is classic C3-PO. I guess you must have hated him in the original trilogy too.
The fact that Dooku is the apprentice is a nice touch as it could show how little the Jedi see...
In TPM,
Yoda : "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice"
Windu : "But which was destroyed, the master or the apprentice"
The Jedi will wonder if the Dark Side had clouded their vision, and may think that Dooku was the master, which, given his ranking in the Jedi Order as a superior of Qui-Gonn, is not entirely surprising.
Once more, Sidious has expertly covered his tracks, since Yoda seems to have dismissed what Dooku said to Obi-Wan regarding Sidious out of hand
Originally posted by The Wanderer
I HAVE made better movies than ep2. but then, so could an ape.
Duder, LOVE the crayon idea!!!
www.gmppictures.com)
thats a joke, right? :lol: pathetic. you are in no position to say what is a good movie and what is not.
Originally posted by Spaff
[b]
that end light sabre duel is far superior to the one is ep2.
I agree with you by taking a action oriented view of the fight. The high energy coreography (sp?) was great. I also think it portrayed the combatants well too. Qui Gon did his best to fend off Maul's attacks, but from the beginning it was obvious he was no match for the younger nimbler maul. Where it heated up was when the two youngsters, Maul and Obi, had at it. The high energy fight was indicitive of Obi's wilder, younger style.
However, the fight in Ep II was just as good in my eyes if you look at the overall scene. The fighting was on par with their characters. The only high energy stuff we saw was when Anakin wielded 2 sabers and Yoda. Yoda's portion was extreme, but if the CG was a little better, that fight would have been every much as extreme as the one in Ep I. I think everyone keeps pointing tothe EP I fight as superior mainly because of Maul being cooler than Dooku( double blad saber and kicka$$ costume) and the muscial score that tied things together. The music during the fight in Ep II was no where as good as "Duel of Fates".
Originally posted by Wicket the Ewok
Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to fear. Fear leads to death.
Hopefully the death of Lucas so someone competent can write and direct the last 4 movies. :P
He's never going to go back to the original model spacecraft which looked FAR superior to the CGI ones. And what happened to the music? The music in episodes 4-6 was amazing, some of the best ever seen in a film. The music in episdoe 2 is bland and instantly forgettable.
There are no 'last 4 movies'. The trilogy that was to supposedly follow the original trilogy is something made up by the media. There is 1 more movie, and then Star Wars is complete. Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker. Luke was just used as a tool in the original trilogy to help tell that story. Luke is really unimportant. Which happens to appeal to me, a Darth Vader fan, but anyway....
Most people seem to think making cgi sequences takes like 2 seconds. It takes months to complete them, a single model takes weeks. Trust me, its not as easy as you think, especially at the scale that was used in ep2. I would know, im learning how to make them myself. Building accual ship props takes just as long but costs more and is 10 times harder.
*Begin Rant*
BTW if you dont like the movie thats your opinion, everyone is intitled one. But dot complain and mess it up for people who liked the movie. You might make someone decide not to go to it and they might be missing something they would have really liked. These movies are laying the foundation, its much harder to do a prequel than a sequel. The original starwars movies are done in a different style, which wouldnt cut it now. Everything is there for a reason. I admit some of the lines were cheesy and they used alot of cleques. If you look passed them you can see the story unfold and alot of foreshadowing. Its a good movie, i didnt think it was hard to follow at all.
*End Rant*
My 2 cents, just defending GL
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering......I see much suffering in this forum....
All I have to say is, Lucas was very rusty when he made episode 1. To me episode 2 is a better film by far...and yes, it has its flaws, like when the movie kept jumping between stories, just when I got into a certain scene it jumped to another.......but I do have one question. In Yoda's fight scene with Dooku, when he was jumping around and doing all those acrobatics. Someone please tell me why does Yoda need a cane to walk :confused:
Wow thank you for impressing us with you ability to write a review. Truth is, critics just love bashing GL and Star wars. Why? Nobody will never know. If you didn't like the movie I suggest you post somewhere useful. You aren't going to change any of our opinions about the movie because A) We loved it and B) It owned. If you didnt like it then dont go see Episode III. If your not a Star Wars fan then why did you go see it.
On the Yoda thing, I bet that Yoda just has a brief period where he "calls" the force to his side.
I think where critics get off track on this is in two areas.
First, you simply can't look at this as a stand-alone movie. The entire 6 episode SW saga is one big 14 hr (840 minutes) movie. If you look at one act of a 6 act play, how can you say at all that a <fill in the blank> was completely pointless until you've seen the entire 6 acts? You can't.
Example, Episode I, Jar-Jar seemed to be a pretty pointless character thrown in there for the kiddies. Fast forward to Episode II where we see how the fact that he a) hails from Naboo, b) has obvious self-esteem woes, and c) is very impressionable and prone to making bad mistakes...all come together to confluence at a very critical time and pivot point for the future of the republic. You can rest assured that Count Dooku will play a prominent role in the next one.
None of the original movies (save the first one) were stand-alone movies. Aside from the obvious that ESB ended with the granddaddy of all cliff hangers, neither ESB or RotJ bothered to tell us where any of our characters came from, why they were doing what they were doing....there was no exposition. What the heck is this Alliance anyways? What are they allied against? That big half constructed sphere in the sky? I guess so. Each of those movies relied HEAVILY on your ability to remember what happened previously.
Each Star Wars movie has and always will be like a separate chapter in a book. You're trying to analyze each chapter like it's a separate short story. It doesn't work that way. Chapters in a book have foreshadowing (to other chapters), set ups for future characters and locations....there are very very few books (I can't think of any) that you can split their chapters into separate stand alone stories.
This leads me into my second area: People looking for drama, critically acclaimed romance, and deep meaningful dialogue should know that Star Wars is not and has never contained any of the above. Star Wars is, never was, and never will be a drama.
Upset with Aotc love story? Well hate to break it to you, but if you were expecting 'An Officer and a Gentleman', I think that's not Lucas' problem.
Star Wars is a fairy tale, plain and simple. George has said it numerous times. His main thrust with the whole series was to give the kids of the current generation a fairy tale in spirit of the old Saturday Flash-Gordonesque serials. Fairy tales don't have good drama, tend to be pretty cheesy, and they aren't structured to be "oscar" caliber stories. Any "love story" in a fairy tale serves one purpose and one purpose only, to serve as a conduit or a facilitator of the tales main theme. It's done in a way that children can understand and accept. "You complete me" or "You had me at hello" has no place in a SW movie, a line like "I truly deeply love you" or "I can't stop thinking about you" does.
A fairy tale's main objective is to teach children a set of morals or values in a way that they understand and accept. Star Wars is all about good vs evil and making tough choices, but seeing how the right choices can lead to the good, and wrong choices can lead to the evil.
Viewed in this light, AOTC fits right in. It is Act 2 of a 6-act fairy tale. We see Anakin start to make bad choices, giving into anger, being prone to fits of arrogance and rage, disobeying direct orders from his "father". We see Amidala discouraging Anakin from them having a secret relationship, that living lies are bad, but at the end, when they make a choice to get married in secret, I can pretty much guarantee you that that will be a BIG factor in Anakin's short future as Jedi and long future as Dark Lord of the Sith. A bad choice leading to bad things.
It's a fairy tale, plain and simple. Not science fiction, not drama.....it's not like anything we've seen before on the big screen. The characters are flat, not very deep, and can be totally judged on their appearance. The good guys wear white, the bad guys wear black, and the ones in between wear gray or a combo. The story itself is simplistic with hidden overtures and themes. Children don't like to be lectured anymore than adults do, but the difference is you can give kids a lecture without them being any the wiser. Wrapping morals in a fun story is like giving your family pet, a pill wrapped in cheese. They'll eat up without knowing they're doing themselves a favor. Try to just give them the pill and they'll spit it out. Bad analogy maybe, but I think you get the point.
How many fairy tales have you critiqued before? You know that whole Billy Goat Gruff story seemed very shallow, and I never really believed that the troll under the bridge was really after anything more than his paycheck. The Brothers Grimm have really lost their edge.
TDS
To return to the original question:
How can anybody like this movie??
Well, I suppose that's called personal taste.
It seems there are different kinds of board users around:
1)
Those who OMFG love the movie and jump at anyone trying to say something else. Let's call them Hypers. Their goal is trying to get everyone to love the movie the same way they do (which they can't accomplish and thus makes them quite embarassing).
2)
Those who hate the movie and exspect a new flawless classic like the original Star Wars movies (which they are not and never were) and hack every movie into pieces, which does not live up to their exspectation. Let's call them Lumberjacks. *humms a melody*
3)
Those who enjoyed the movie and know that it, while not being perfect, was a nice little flick (for Star Wars fans).
Guess where I see myself and most others?
Now to your points, The Wanderer:
Then there’s a very mediocre chase scene.
So, you have seen a better one? Where?
my battered psyche is craving something emotional, something real, something other than these cardboard cutouts of characters.
*cough* Hamill *cough* At least it stays in the family. ;)
Anakin raises his sword over his head ANGRILY, preparing to SLAUGHTER the tuskens who have just killed his mom... annnnnnnnd........... CUT to cartoon CG Yoda spouting off expository dialogue about how something bad has happened. And I can not forgive George Lucas.
Taking into account that so many people are movie experts on this board, I am sure that they can tell you that a sudden cut and the later exclamation They are beasts! I slaughtered them like beasts! is much more effective and intense that showing the scene itself. (Running after screaming innocent people takes a long time and is rather uninteresting. Do you never watch COPS?)
Ani and Padme fall into a cartoon acme factory and bugs try to kill them... for some reason... there was this Count Dokou. he's in league with bugs building robots to try and overthrow a government, but he's really building clones to fight the robots for the guy he's in league with who really is the guy who is in control of the government, And they're trying to kill Padme... for some reason... Only Yoda shows up with all of a dead Jedi's clones after having decided to ditch the whole at Peace and in touch with the force thing. Shooting goes on, a lot of shooting, and Yoda ordering things blown up and it's all convoluted and it's exactly like something a 11 year old would write, which is OK, because it felt like 11 year olds acted this movie out for their school play anyway.
Much better than "One naive boy, his mentor, a smuggler and a warrior dog save a princes and blow up a big, grey basketball with a *Dr. Evil voive* super-laser.", right? (Yeah, I hate Episode 4!)
And the factory just screamed Jedi Knight level design. :D
1.) Who are the main characters of these films? In the first one Obi Wan didn't do very much and I think it was Qui-Gon, but he dies. Now it's... Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme? but Yoda saves the day, and I was rooting for Jango Fett???
Where is the problem with that one?
2.) CG... everything looks like cartoon... Coursant(sp?) = looked like a cartoon. Yoda = looked like a cartoon. Gladiator arena monsters = looked like cartoons straight outta Monsters Inc.
Concerning the arena monsters: Agreed.
Concerning Coruscant and Yoda: Did we see the same movie?
Even if you didn't like the other CGs, what about the Kaminosians?
3.) Now, exactly what function did C3-PO and R2 serve in that movie? They served no real pourpose. Why write them in??? Wasn't Owen Lars upset when Anakin stole his droid? Was there any reason at all to write them in there other than to cram one more thing in that mess?
They had the same function they already had in the old movies: The comedical element. The modern audience (those stupid Pokemon-collection, Harry Potter-reading kinds) just needs the short pause after the jokes. Otherwise the humour was the same as in Episode 4-6.
4.) I know I've went over this already, but MAN was there ever a romance that felt more forced and unconvincing than that??
Personally I would agree, but a lot of couples in the cinema liked it, therefore I would go with that personal taste thingy again.
5.) I want ONE person to take a good long look at R2 FLYING around and then try to tell me Lucas knows what he's doing. that movie felt like it was written and directed by a fourth grader
Are there too many kids and actions directed to children in Episode 1 and 2? Yes!!! Completely agreed.
Conclusion:
Personally I would say only Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi beat this one and taking into account all movies done in the last dozend years, this is one of the best. After all, it is the first movie, which kept me excited, even after I left the cinema. Not even LotR did that to me.
7 out of 10
Ok dude. Look at you, you call other people star wars nerds while you write a fuking 1 page summary of the movie. Now if you aren't fuking satisfied go see Ice Age or something.
Ok dude. Look at you, you call other people star wars nerds while you write a fuking 1 page summary of the movie. Now if you aren't fuking satisfied go see Ice Age or something.
If you look to the right, you will see a so-called lumberjack in his natural environment.
Mere 2 posts and already so much anger in that one...
AND I DID LIKE ICE AGE!
I realized I never gave my thoughts on the movie in my previous post...I'd give AoTC a 8.5/10.
The things I didn't particularly care for:
1) Jango seemed to die way too easy
2) The slapstick C3PO bit during the intense battle sequences. While I found them to be somewhat humorous, for me, they totally killed the momentum of the battle and proved to be a distraction. Every time his head or body would appear, I would practically yell at the screen to move along. We go from Jango being beheaded, to 3PO's head asking "what? what are my arms doing?" Thanks for the buzzkill.
But as a whole I felt like I was back in the Star Wars universe, something I didn't feel in Episode I.
One thing that Wanderer or maybe someone else mentioned was the whole Tusken Raider slaughter scene, and how they were upset with how it was done.
To be done the way it should *have* been done would have obliterated its PG rating (or whatever scale it is in your country). To me it was much more powerful to see Yoda wincing in pain as the ghostly sounds of battle echo in his brain, as he feels the extreme anger and pain of Anakin halfway across the galaxy...
TDS
TDS:
What was wrong with the way Jango died? Are you saying that you didn't enjoy seeing Samuel L. Jackson take his head off with his lightsaber? I thought that very fitting. Plus, if he didn't die that way, Boba couldn't have held the mask up to his face at the end, which was a nifty idea.
As for the Tusken slaughter, yes, the PG rating would have gone out the window. Not so much because of violence (since the lightsaber doesn't draw blood because of its extreme heat), but more because of the concept of the slaughter of innocent women and children. That would have shot it at least to PG-13, possibly even R, depending on how many there were. And you're right, Yoda's response and Anakin's declaration of his "slaughter of animals" definately brought across the meaning it needed to.
DP
I think Lucas is trying to please everyone of all ages and sexes. A little romance for women, some fighting for the men, and some humor for kids. AOTC wasn't great, but it's star wars. I say stop the politically correct bull****, and make a kick ass film for the die hard star wars fans, but its Lucas's project.
DarkPraetorian:
I didn't think there was anything wrong with the "way" he died. Just the quickness of it. It just seemed way too fast. I was expecting more of a drawn out battle like what he had with Obi-wan. You pretty much just see him get rushed once by Mace and all he does is stand there, then *waaaaarrwww* *slice* off with his head! Granted he did take down some Jedi, so maybe he already had his screen time quota :)
The scene with Boba picking up his helmet was powerful though.
I'm going for my second viewing tmrw morning. I'm going to prepare myself to pay much more attention to the end battle :)
While I don't know yet if I can say AotC is my favorite SW movie, the last 45 minutes are definitely my most favorite ending to any SW movie yet.
TDS
Gidion, thank you for bringing up points and not just flaming, as to your points...
So, you have seen a better one? Where?
Theres a very good foot chase in "Time After Time" nothing fancy mind you, but I liked it for some reason. The chace sequence at the end of Monsters Inc was fabulous. Oh, The Blues Brothers man, lets not forget the Blues Brothers.
My problem with the chace sequence in AOTC is the problem I have with most of the action sequences in that movie. It's what I like to call "obscene visual gluttony" throwing as much CGI at you as one possibly can does not a well orchastrated scene make.
*cough* Hamill *cough* At least it stays in the family.
mayhaps, but at least Hamil had the good fortune to work with Directors who could get more out of an actor than Lucas seems to be able to. You can't tell me that Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewie aren't dynamic and vibrant especially compared to Ani Pad and Obi.
Taking into account that so many people are movie experts on this board, I am sure that they can tell you that a sudden cut and the later exclamation They are beasts! I slaughtered them like beasts! is much more effective and intense that showing the scene itself. (Running after screaming innocent people takes a long time and is rather uninteresting. Do you never watch COPS?)
I guess I'm just going to have to disagree then. The movie was emotionally empty, tedious, and could have used the raw anger. Imagine watching Psycho, only right after we see Normans outline with the knife they cut to a sherif on the phone saying "yes, it was terrible, she was stabed multiple times"
Much better than "One naive boy, his mentor, a smuggler and a warrior dog save a princes and blow up a big, grey basketball with a *Dr. Evil voive* super-laser.", right? (Yeah, I hate Episode 4!)
And the factory just screamed Jedi Knight level design.
A movie should not feel like a video game. And reguarding grey basketballs, of course it was absurd, but at least it made sense :) And I'm not a big fan of ANH myself, Empire's where it's all at.
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1.) Who are the main characters of these films? In the first one Obi Wan didn't do very much and I think it was Qui-Gon, but he dies. Now it's... Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme? but Yoda saves the day, and I was rooting for Jango Fett???
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Where is the problem with that one?
There is no main character, how could you not have a problem with that?
Concerning the arena monsters: Agreed.
Concerning Coruscant and Yoda: Did we see the same movie?
Even if you didn't like the other CGs, what about the Kaminosians?
When I say Coruscant, I'm mainly refering to the chase scene. That car Anakin stole eerily reminded me of the Taxi from who framed roger rabbit for some reason. I think Yoda looks like a moving painting right now, CG technology has not yet achieved a state of perfection. The puppet looked more real to me. Kaminosians, were they the cloners? yes, I will say I thought they looked pretty good.
But basically, CGI does NOT look better all the time. I was watching ROTJ the other day. I think whatsherface (can't remember her name, the thin legged singer in the band at Jabba's palace) looked better before they replaced her with a digital entity. and Jabba came on the TV and I thought to myself "OH MY GOD, Jabba looks GREAT!!!" Jabba looked like a real creature, he didn't move with overly fluid animated motions. This is because, he was there, he was a real thing.
They had the same function they already had in the old movies: The comedical element. The modern audience (those stupid Pokemon-collection, Harry Potter-reading kinds) just needs the short pause after the jokes. Otherwise the humour was the same as in Episode 4-6.
fair enough, it just seems awkward that they'd bring them with at all. Wasn't Owen Lars mad that Anakin stole his droid? shouldn't they have waited in the ship?
Originally posted by The Wanderer
My problem with the chace sequence in AOTC is the problem I have with most of the action sequences in that movie. It's what I like to call "obscene visual gluttony" throwing as much CGI at you as one possibly can does not a well orchastrated scene make.
Well, what else could they do? Just have a bunch of nondescript areas they just happen to pass? Part of that scene was to paint just how busy and overcrowded Coruscant is... that's like saying if they film a chase scene on an interstate highway, there shouldn't be any other cars because it congests the focus away from the chasers and chasee.
I guess I'm just going to have to disagree then. The movie was emotionally empty, tedious, and could have used the raw anger. Imagine watching Psycho, only right after we see Normans outline with the knife they cut to a sherif on the phone saying "yes, it was terrible, she was stabed multiple times"
True enough, but the raw anger hasn't come in yet... Anakin hasn't yet completely fallen to the dark side, remember. He can't just go from being that "young rebellious upstart" to suddenly being the dark lord of the sith... there has to be a transition. I believe Episode III will show Anakin's hatred in its full force (which is also what will make Ep3 a much darker movie).
There is no main character, how could you not have a problem with that?
There is no main character because there is so much going on simultaneously. So many plot lines are going on that everything is becoming congested and cloudy (the dark side is clouding the force) and I believe the movie was constructed the same way to construe that. Ep2 reminds me much more of the multitude of books written that are supposed to take place after Ep6. A bunch of plot lines weave in and out of each other until they hit each other in the last 50 pages or so... same concept here.
You don't necessarily need a single solitary main character to have a good story. :)
But basically, CGI does NOT look better all the time. I was watching ROTJ the other day. I think whatsherface (can't remember her name, the thin legged singer in the band at Jabba's palace) looked better before they replaced her with a digital entity. and Jabba came on the TV and I thought to myself "OH MY GOD, Jabba looks GREAT!!!" Jabba looked like a real creature, he didn't move with overly fluid animated motions. This is because, he was there, he was a real thing.
CGI doesn't always look better all the time, but it is much cheaper to stick with one medium than to switch it all up. Gotta remember that despite the design flaws, this is still a movie. Budget is a big part of it. :)
I'm not going to bother reading all the posts so what I say might already be said. George Lucas is not making these Prequels to capture the magic of the first 3 at all. I dont believe he is even trying to outdo himself, he knows as well as all true Starwars fans do that he can't ever make anything that can hold a candle to the original triology. This whole prequel thing is because he wants to! He has the money to spend and he's decided to give his devoted Starwars Universe followers the whole story of Anakin Skywalker, something I know he wished he could have done when he first set out to make Starwars back in 1975.
I guess all I'm trying to say, is that there is no point in comparing these prequels to the original triology as far as movie making goes. And so far, with what time frames he has to put all of the information from his original plan of Starwars into (about 2 hours each) and attempting to make it entertaining in the process, Lucas deserves a standing ovation.
Of course this is all my opinion, and as I would probably think that George Lucas's spit to be a work, I doubt most people will see things my way. I am a true Starwars fan, and for one is extremely overjoyed with all of the movies to date, yes even episode 1! And no I am not going to explain why episode 1 was great now.
okay when any of you make a movie with such a cult following
i will pay attention to what you ahve to say
i love you poeple
never accomplishing anything
but always putting great things down
alot of people didnt like episode 1 when it 1st came out
but if you watch 1 then 2
you realize that together they make a better movie
remember lucas is not trying to sell each movie alone
but as a trilogy then as a 6 part movie
JUST LIKE THE LORD OF THE RINGS MOVIES
and personally i think ep.2 is one of the better starwars movies
Originally posted by Vader10
Did you not realize that Sidious, using Dooku, was playing both sides of the fence. Sidious using another puppet ( or possibly Dooku) started creating an army 10 years before the movie to fight another army from the separatists that he helped form. So basically, Sidious had his hand in creating both armies just to start the civil war and get Palpatine ( his alter ego) unlimited powers basically making the Republic a dictatorship. The war will also be used to wipe out the jedi who are his only real enemy.
Really, this does explain everything fools. The movie made perfect sense the whole way through...it just left some mystery to be resolved in the next movie.
And even if Dooku wasn't need there are always 2, if Palpantine was to die no one would carry on his vision, he quickly had to recruit someone to replace Maul.
I really like how Lucas didn't kill Dooku...a powerful apprentice makes more sense than flashy Darth Maul.
Also whats with George Lucas all of the sudden using abrupt zoom ins and lengthy facial shots? I don't have a problem with, it just seems that his style is changing (for the better IMO).
fair enough, it just seems awkward that they'd bring them with at all. Wasn't Owen Lars mad that Anakin stole his droid? shouldn't they have waited in the ship?
C3PO WAS ANAKIN'S DROID
he built him
OMG!:eek: you people remind me of the real senate!
some of u didnt listen to the dialogue! u sat there looking at the few negative things and ignored the many positive things!
Dooku is there because the trade federation doesnt trust sidious anymore, sidious betrayed them 10 years ago!
If u said the music of ep. 1, 4,5,6 were good then this movie's music was good because they were remakes of the same songs(imperial march, duel of the fates).
the graphics were great, acting was ok, and the monsters were not cartoons they were compter engineered! Cartoons is what a 11 year old would make! have you ever watched cartoon network wanderer? Those are cartoons
imo, George has done another bang-up job!
congratulations!
Wanderer, I have to say that when I read your first post I was ready to rip your throat out, but when you came back on and thanked Gildion for not flaming and then wrote a response to his points I put my lightsaber away and have a new found respect for you.
On to the topic at hand: I don't have a problem with the acting at all. In fact, I was impressed. Hyden Christensen is wonderful, especially in the scene where he tells Padme he killed all the tuskens. You can't look at him the same way you look at the other characters. Think of his life. He never had a father (that's a huge factor in real life, so it stands to reason it was in SW too), he left his mother when he was ten years old. He is told that he is the "chosen one" and will grow up to bring the entire galaxy back into balance. That's a lot of weight put on a boy's shoulders. He then proceeds to be taught in the ways of the Force even though he's too old and has anger and fear in his heart, which are two definite reasons to not train someone. In Episode II, Anakin is constantly fighting between what he feels and what he has been taught. He loves Padme, but was told his whole life that he's not aloud to feel that kind of love. When he professes his love, he is not only letting those feelings out, but letting down the whole Jedi coucil. When he goes back to Tatooine and sees his mother die that's the last straw. He snaps and kills all the tuskens. His acting wasn't bad, but I will give you that it's different. It's a hard character to play: filled with ups and downs, and having to fit the characters of Anakin in Episode I and Vader in the classic trilogy into his personality. Hyden Christensen got the most difficult role to play of anyone, simply because of that. Regardless of how this post goes over, I have only one thing to say about him: I'm impressed.
Wanderer, I have to say that when I read your first post I was ready to rip your throat out, but when you came back on and thanked Gildion for not flaming and then wrote a response to his points I put my lightsaber away and have a new found respect for you.
Completely agreed. Beside a few of the less intellectual posts, this thread is a perfect example of how a message board should look like.
Wanderer:
I hope you will like episode 3 better.
Until then: Grab some bags of popcorn, Doritos, Cheetos (if you can afford a new shirt afterwards :D ), and lots of Coke and have a good time with Episode 2.
GidionTheDead
My hopes for Ep 3 are pretty low, but at least I have two more Spider-Man films to look forward to (I'm a comic book nerd first and foremost) and soon, very soon, I will be able to afford a PC that can handle JK2, so not all is lost :)
Oh, BTW, reguarding Hayden, yes those Lars homestead scenes worked. Though Lucas cut away from what should have been the heart of those scenes, they were the only scenes in the movie that worked for me. My major beef with his acting is how I feel no chemistry between Ani and Padme.
I'm not saying it's his fault, or that the actors in the movie are bad, I just think they're all getting some horrible dialogue to work with. Han Solo worked because Harrison took Lucas' dialogue and improvised the hell out of it.
It's a writing problem, not nessesarily an acting one.
I liked this movie because
1) it's better than ep 1
2) I'm a sucker for visual effects (I saw it in a digital projector and it looked amazing!)
3) I just want to know what happened/happens next. I really liked the whole storyline, altough it could have been better developed, better acted, etc.
That brings up an important point that you hafta take this movie as it is... an epic.
An epic is meant to be flashy and attention-grabbing. An epic is meant to have cheesy love stories that could never possibly really work - as long as they drive the plot forward. An epic is ALL about moving the plot forward, as the plot is the major force of movement through the story.
Underneath all that is the deeper symbolism, the cosmic battles between good and evil... but first and foremost, it's just a good story - a fairy tale in the classical sense.
I mean really, what drove the love stories in Ep4-6?
"I love you." "I know." I mean HOW DAMN CHEESY IS THAT?? And yet we've all come to accept it because it IS the original trilogy and we all hold it (most of us anyway) in such high esteem.
Just take the movie for what it is (a part of a much larger epic) and you'll enjoy it much more, I promise. :D
Look guys i thought i would stop by and say a few things.
First of all Dooku was on a payroll from Sidious/Palpatine, to create a battledroid army and unite planets into a confederacy to create a ruckuss, the clone army was made to destroy the Confederists, therefore Palpatine could be seen to be doing the right thing and also he has a army to maintain order when he starts to enforce corrupt law. palpatine used Dooku to create an Army knowing the Jedi Knights would attack Dooku, so Dooku could destroy the Jedi Knights and get palpatine that thorn out of his side when he enforced order, this is a good plan as knowone will suspect he killed the noble Jedi (again for popularity). You see after the clone wars, not many Jedi would be left, so he could wipe them aside. He ordered Padme(who supported the army idea) assasinated so he could be seen to be noble in creating a army(again for popularity)not a bloodthirsty tyrant, when he did do it was because obi wan was captured and he got information on Dooku, so he would seem to be making the right choice, to help obi wan. The main reason he went to war on the confederists is to wipe away the trade Federation( A threat to his power)
Guys this movies a complicated piece of stuff, you'll like it if u understand it.
But hey im 12 and i understood it.
Hey i don't like Jar Jar and i don't make corney jokes about Star Wars. Most people think 12 year olds do stuff like that I Dont, im a Star Wars Fan
well the bottom line is that i walked out of that ****ing thing feeling a couple IQ points dumber and thirteen bucks lighter.
Not the kind of feeling you want after seeing a movie (you would at least like to know that you bling went to something mentally provacative.)
*his eyes shift upwards*
hmmm....a twelve year old can understand a movie plot that a 16 year old writer and cinema enthusiast can't.
There are some mysteries that will never be solved.
:atat:
George Lucas is a genius. (Smarter than I am, so please forgive any misspellings) Star Wars will be one of the greatest "iconic" series of all times, bar none, but let's be frank. If EP1 and EP2 were the first two released, there wouldn't be ANH, ESB or RoTJ. I've read the complains: the acting, dialog and plot for the most part.
MY TAKE:
I don't feel it. I didn't care about a single character.
The movies are serial in nature, it's hard to care about the movie when you know how it ends.:p
Still way too much Jar Jar.
"I just slaughtered women & children, comfort me" What was that?
The Guy that directed ESB should've done this one. Yes, definately.
The Yoda battle was too much. So far over the top it was stupid. In RoTJ, Yoda died of old age of 940. He can't be younger than 900 in this movie. (But the Yoda animation overall was good. Except the little hovercraft scene, looked cheesy.)
I found my mother, she dies two minutes later.. I would rather her be eaten with her head left.
EP3 should be GREAT!! (PLEASE GOD!!!) They took the plot of one GREAT movie, divided into 3 movies, then saved all the best stuff for the last one. For some reason that doesn't make sense to me.
Was it just me, or did anyone else want to see the clone war? I wanted to see a conflict of Galactic proportions.
:atat:
George Lucas is a genius. (Smarter than I am, so please forgive any misspellings) Star Wars will be one of the greatest "iconic" series of all times, bar none, but let's be frank. If EP1 and EP2 were the first two released, there wouldn't be ANH, ESB or RoTJ. I've read the complains: the acting, dialog and plot for the most part.
MY TAKE:
I don't feel it. I didn't care about a single character.
The movies are serial in nature, it's hard to care about the movie when you know how it ends.:p
Still way too much Jar Jar.
"I just slaughtered women & children, comfort me" What was that?
The Guy that directed ESB should've done this one. Yes, definately.
The Yoda battle was too much. So far over the top it was stupid. In RoTJ, Yoda died of old age of 940. He can't be younger than 900 in this movie. (But the Yoda animation overall was good. Except the little hovercraft scene, looked cheesy.)
I found my mother, she dies two minutes later.. I would rather her be eaten with her head left.
EP3 should be GREAT!! (PLEASE GOD!!!) They took the plot of one GREAT movie, divided into 3 movies, then saved all the best stuff for the last one. For some reason that doesn't make sense to me.
Was it just me, or did anyone else want to see the clone war? I wanted to see a conflict of Galactic proportions.
I freakin' loved this movie! Yes, it's 20 times better than Phantom Menace. How could anyone not like the whole Tusken Raider/Anakin thing? The way Mr. Lucas decided to portray that, was awesome. It just builds up to the "I killed them all" speech. (Which is more important than just ANOTHER action sequence with Anakin killing a tribe of Tuskens) That scene was one of the best scenes in this movie. Christiansen did a fine job on that scene, I was impressed too. And I'm not a movie expert. The Tuskens killed his mother for God's sake!! In the Phantom Menace, we see (at least I did) how strong they're relationship is. Anakin promises to return and free her, and that is why she died 2 minutes later. She was waiting for him. "Now I am complete". Dies... Isn't that the #1 reason why Anakin turns to the darkside, along with the other reasons?
In the speech at the homestead he says that he hates them. He feels he failed her. In that whole speech, or whatever you call it, you can just "feel" the darkside oozing into Anakin's heart and mind. Then the music in the background, just intensifies that part even more. Yea, that's cardboard emotions alright. LOL
The other movies had it too. "I am your father" speech. The scene in ROTJ, between Vader and Luke right before he takes him to Palpatine. I felt right along with Luke and Vader in those scenes also. Mark Hamil did a fine ass job too!
No, I'm not one of those people who cries at movies, and I am a Star Wars fan, but not obsessed with it. Action movies are my favorite, and this one had my heart pumping 100 miles an hour. GREAT! But, George Lucas succeeded at what he was trying for in that scene for me.
This is just ONE part of the movie I loved, but to go down the list would be a waste of time because half of you are probably not reading this post anyways. LOL :D
Oh, and Yoda kicked ass too. (Tee Hee)
Originally posted by doc_holiday106
hmmm....a twelve year old can understand a movie plot that a 16 year old writer and cinema enthusiast can't.
There are some mysteries that will never be solved.
Maybe when you're a little bit older, you'll understand that age doesn't necessarily matter that much in most things. And being a 16 year-old writer isn't really something to write home about either. ;)
The Yoda battle was too much. So far over the top it was stupid. In RoTJ, Yoda died of old age of 940. He can't be younger than 900 in this movie. (But the Yoda animation overall was good. Except the little hovercraft scene, looked cheesy.)
Well, Yoda is feeble... it is only when he grabs hold of the Force that he gains such power... I mean really, think of how many people that are 60-70 years old, in perfect health for their age, and then one day, they're just dead. It just happens. Yoda holds on for as long as he can, and finally, it's just too much. Death takes hold. Nothing anyone can do about it. :)