If you are going to talk about Episode II Place the Title Spoilers in your post
. Some of us are trying not to know much if not anything about the movie before we see it in the theater. Don't ruin it for us.
Okey dokey. Good luck over the next year. Cause it's gonna be pretty hard to not hear anything.
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I calculated the odds that this would work versus the odds that I was doing something incredibly stupid...and I went ahead anyway.
The Title is going to be:
Star Wars Episode II: Jedi Knight II, er, I mean "Dark Forces III" .. oh nevermind! ; p
Yeah, I know what you mean, shut up about the spoilers, at least until the movie is actually in theatres, and then keep it out of the open for those who haven't seen it yet.
Kurgan
Sorry if I *spoiled* anything for anybody by posting about Chris Lee. It was meant more as a tribute to the man, rather than give anything away.
I won't be posting anything else related to Episode II, anyway, because I'm avoiding as much of the hype as possible myself.
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I think I might know but it probably isn't it. I'm not going to say it but if anyone saw the interview with George Lucas about Episode II before the "A New Hope" in the latest release of the Star Wars trilogy, it shows the name of the title. (I could be wrong)
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If this is a consular ship, where is the ambassador?
I'm not saying don't post. Just put in the title of your post Spoilers here.
They're making Episode II?? Man, you spoiled it for me! I thought Episode I was the last movie!
:*(
I agree 100%... In fact, IMHO we shouldn't even discuss Episode II, I mean this is a game forum after all...
I'm spoiler free now, and intend to stay that way... The only thing I will watch is the Trailer.
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And if I close my mind in fear,
Please pry it open.
Well lets just hope there is better acting in the second one and hopefully they will introduce the StormTrooper and the Tie Fighter because Roger Roger is getting a little old and the Episode 1 vehicles looked like crap.
Brian
They would if it was the movie about the EMPIRE. But since it is a movie set in the days of the Old Republic, It won't.
c'mon let's hear it for the VSD!!!! or how about tarkin crashin his shuttle on a crowd of spectators! they MUST put that in!!! My sources were from the rebellion encyclopedia.
Or the Renadalli Star Drive DREADNAUGHTS. The Katan Fleet would be a nice touch. Don't really care much about the mandalorians.
They could have the Victory Star Destroyers and assorted other ships, vehicles etc invented "in the last days of the Old Republic".
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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.
yeah those dreadnaughts would be awesome! how about some noghri death commandos too! I'd also like to see some z-95s too.
I want to see some new stuff like in Episode I. The Naboo starfighter did not suck. I think it all fitted perfectly.
TPM rules.
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And if I close my mind in fear,
Please pry it open.
*high fives SuperBuen*
I wouldn't mind having all the "roger rogers" and "yippees!!" taken out though.I guess I wouldn't mind if Jar Jar cought a bullet in the face either.
YES TPM RULES!!!!!!!!!
No one argue with me...
For all you Phantom Menace haters, I have this to say: You wanted a clone movie. You didn't get it. TOO BAD. TPM is just as good as all the others.
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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.
I didn't think the gungans were dumb. I think the droids were the coolest thing about the movie though, and the podrace. the naboo fighter was pretty cool. I'd like to see some more planets, like Corellia, Commenor, Sluis Van, Balmorrah, Mantooine, and of course Alderaan.
YES TPM RULES!!!!!!!!!
No one argue with me...
For all you Phantom Menace haters, I have this to say: You wanted a clone movie. You didn't get it. TOO BAD. TPM is just as good as all the others.
I disagree. I didn't hate TPM, I just found it less enjoyable than the other Star Wars movies (and the game wasn't really my cup of tea, but I judged it as a game, not so much as a Star Wars experience).
For me TPM, maybe it was overhyped, but I think it went off in a direction that many fans didn't appreciate, because it was aimed at the younger audience. So it was more scatagorical, cutsey, and such. The voices of many of the alien characters (Gungans, Nemodians, etc) were quite embarrassing.
The human characters were pretty dead-pan and boring (of course that you can argue is just because we haven't seen enough of them yet to fully appreciate their characters).
The subtleties about Palpatine were cool, and of course the action saber duel at the very end was great. The special effects were nice, but the movie had serious flaws, that to me, put it at the bottom of the list of Star Wars movies. I'm sure you disagree, but I don't hate it because I was expecting a "clone movie." In fact, had it been a clone movie, I would have been more disapointed.
When I was watching TPM, at various times I felt like I was watching a Disney cartoon, rather than a space opera. That was a somewhat unsettling thought to me, as indicates how far we've come from that galaxy far far away.. that was revealed in 1976-7.
In many ways it seems like the movie insulted the intelligence of Star Wars fans who went to see it, that's all. It's far easier to do that with a tried-and-true series of movies than it is with an original film that could be a one-shot deal (like the first Star Wars) and so had to try extra hard to draw the audience in.
I watched it and enjoyed it, but far less than any of the other films, and I definately was disapointed with chunks of it,
and not without good reason I feel.
Kurgan
It did feel like it was aimed at little kids, especially some of the voices of the characters, the gungans sounded like 5 and 6 year olds how they talk.
What yousa being talkin bout? Da Gungans being talkin liken normal people okeeday?
Originally posted by Kurgan:
For me TPM, maybe it was overhyped, but I think it went off in a direction that many fans didn't appreciate, because it was aimed at the younger audience. So it was more scatagorical, cutsey, and such. The voices of many of the alien characters (Gungans, Nemodians, etc) were quite embarrassing.
The special effects were nice, but the movie had serious flaws, that to me, put it at the bottom of the list of Star Wars movies.
When I was watching TPM, at various times I felt like I was watching a Disney cartoon, rather than a space opera. That was a somewhat unsettling thought to me, as indicates how far we've come from that galaxy far far away.. that was revealed in 1976-7.
In many ways it seems like the movie insulted the intelligence of Star Wars fans who went to see it, that's all. It's far easier to do that with a tried-and-true series of movies than it is with an original film that could be a one-shot deal (like the first Star Wars) and so had to try extra hard to draw the audience in.
Kurgan
What serious flaws may I ask? BTW, the Gungans were the only thing that really annoyed me. (Although I loved their technology, etc, just not their looks and actions.) But what's wrong with the Neimodians' voices?
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/confused.gif)
Ahem---a Disney cartoon? And how did it insult anyone's intelligence?
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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.
Well we could argue about this for a whole decade and then some.
I could tell you that ANH paled in comparison to TESB and ROTJ. I can tell you that it's the first in the prequels and it's just setting up the other 2.
Or I could tell you that TPM is one of my favorite movies because it made me experience the whole Star Wars thing (standing in line, watching it for the first time with the rest of the world, etc). I wasn't even born in 1977 and much too young in 1980 and '83.
The fact is that it doesn't matter who liked TPM and who didn't. Everyone likes different movies. And I for one am glad that TPM can reach out to children. It means a whole other generation can experience Star Wars with me.
There is only one scene in the movie that I didn't enjoy. Out of all of 'em, the one I would do without is the thing on Tatooine that farts in Jar Jar's general direction. That was basically the only one.
The duel in the end kicked ass. It makes the ones in TESB and ROTJ look like they were fighting with plastic sticks (well they are playing with plastic sticks, but you know what I mean).
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/biggrin.gif)
Ok well I am done. This is my opinion!
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And if I close my mind in fear,
Please pry it open.
But what about the yippes and laser sword comments? I just wanna kick Jake Lloyd in the face every time I hear him say those.
Ohmigosh, I feel worried about myself, I completely agreed with everything JediSuperBuen said! (Huh? Somwething farts at Jar-Jar? Never noticed it...)
Anakin was annoying, but he acted just like Lucas wanted him to: Like a normal, annoying little kid. Bravo.
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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.
Hey JediSuperBuen, how about that scene where Jar Jar steps in a fresh chunk of animal dung on Tatooine (and makes a dumb comment afterward)? ; p
Redwing, do you really want me to get into details? Granted much of this is MY OPINION and you can feel free to disagree all you want to, but this is how I (and many people who were Star Wars fans before TPM came out) feel. I know, some people will like anything Star Wars and own Jar Jar dolls, I'm not one of 'em!
Here are some of the problems:
TPM relied heavily on special effects, so much so that it tended to be weak on characterisation and plot.
Yes, I agree the stuff with Palpatine sneaking around behind the scenes was cool, yes, but that's one good thing out of many bad.
And yes, yes, I know much of the problems COULD BE ACCOUNTED FOR in the next two movies, but is it really the case that I cannot judge TPM until 2006 (after all the movies have been aired)? I think I can judge it on its own and in relation to the rest of the movies that are out, since it is part of the SW series.
Problems with TPM:
Weak characterisation. Darth Maul up and dies, and says only a couple of lines. He's worse than Boba Fett. At least Fett was in more than one movie, and we had a chance to get used to him and fit him into the story better. The Jedi were pretty dead-pan (Han Solo in the Cantina scenes, only throught the entire movie). Queen Amidala: no emotions whatsoever.
In the originals, there is some dialouge with the saber battles. In TPM they break up the saber battles with other scenes that ruin the action, plus there is no dialouge (dialouge adds tension and helps raise it above merely a "wow, look at the effects" scene).
Jar Jar is incredibly annoying. He has that atrocious pidgeon dialect (which is dumbed down from the subtitled aliens we put up with in the rest of the movies, not including Chewie of course, but at least Chewie was tough and not attempting to be a bad comedian 99.9% of the time). He acted like he belonged in a Disney cartoon.
"Roger Roger!" Battle Droids not scary at all. Stormtroopers were much more impressive, even though they couldn't shoot squat. They looked and acted like toys.
Violence toned down except in saber duels. Yes, I know ratings are ratings, but we never got a sense that the characters were in real danger, and you saw a few pilots get shot, but the screen never showed their bodies lying around. In war, death happens. In the other movies, scenes of blood and carnage are COMMON in comparison. At least show that somebody actually died (again, except for the final saber duel's two fatalities).
The rest of the Gungans aren't much better (like that drooling fat king guy). At least we don't have to watch them for the entire movie.
His actions were those of a retarded person or a very young child, designed to elicit laughs from children. He made me CRINGE and others in the theatre did the same. Sorry Jar Jar. And what is the point of the fart and poop jokes? Again, appealing to the lowest common denominator among the kids.
Story is a problem from the get-go, because we already know what's going to happen. Then there is the issue with the expanded universe. We know exactly what is going to happen, but George throws it all out the window (well, he's selective, he borrows the double-saber idea and Coruscant for example).
The ending seemed too much like it was trying to copy ROTJ, and yes that includes the part about blowing up the "generator" to the super weapon (in this case the droid army vs. the Deathstar II) and the cute animal army survives destruction (in this case the Gungans vs. the Ewoks). Having the (mostly lackluster) StarFighter battle interspersed with the Gungan Battle vs. the Droids, the Saber Duel (this was the most interesting part) and the invasion of the palace (by Padme and company) was confusing and disorienting (worse than only having to keep two battles straight).
The whole idea of the Trade routes and that political stuff was just boring. No wonder they threw in Jar Jar to keep the kids awake for all of it.
Anakin is a little squirt who does stuff by accident. He's no hero, and he's no villian, just a little kid who has dumb luck, boring! And his acting is bad (bye mom, never going to see you again.. *2 second pause* yipee! Off to almost get killed again taging along with these zombies!). I know, he's just a kid, and most kids can't act, oh well...
Special effects problems, such as people looking at Jar Jar, but clearing not looking AT him. The effects are so numerous that they tend to distract you in some cases. Again, depends on your taste, so perhaps a minor quibble.
Unanswered questions.. this is stuff that George put in for whatever reasons. You can argue all you want that he'll "fix" them in the next movies, but they violate what we thought we knew from the first three films (this is what I mean by "insulting your intelligence" it acts as if the audience has forgotten everything from the other three films):
Jedi disappear when they die. This is what the Trilogy shows us. Qui Gon doesn't, and no explanation is given.
Why did they have Anakin build C3PO? Again, not explained in the Trilogy, nothing about 3PO and being on Tatooine before, etc.
Jedi sense each other's presence. The Jedi Council don't detect Palpatine or Maul. Qui and Obi don't either. What gives? These guys are super powerful and super evil, and the Jedi are also super powerful. They can sense a little boy who has no force training, but can't detect the most evil men in the galaxy? Okay.
Midichlorians. No mention of these in the other movies. Destroys mystical understanding of the Force.
Anakin blows up the Droid ship by accident.. and all the droids shut off. Stupid! Talk about a quick fix idea.
Nemodians. Again, accents that made me cringe. The masks looked like rubber and the mouths didn't even move realistically with their voices.
What's with the goofy Bob Saget announcer during the (nearly totally CGI) Pod Race?
I could go on, but I'm too tired right now to continue. It wasn't a horrible movie, but I think I'm justified in calling it the least of the SW movies to come out, regardless of the special effects budget and big name backing.
TPM just looks more like it was made for mass merchandising (mostly lackluster games especially) than for entertainment in its own right as a film.
I'm sure it was a tall order for LucasFilm to top the other SW films, but I think they could have done a better job if their aim wasn't just to make a fast buck off of mass marketable merchandise to kids and go overboard on the special effects.
Kurgan
[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited April 15, 2001).]
I see Kurgan has assigned 8 stars to his Force Rant ability.
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/tongue.gif)
And don't forget the part of the reason they chose battle droid over people: so they could chop up alot and not show gore.
Again, for the kiddies. Lucas seems to have forgotten the adult audience in all this.
I guess if there is no $ beyound ticket sales, he is just not interested in a quality film.
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Master of Demons, Defender of Underworlds
The expanded universe doesn't mean squat if George Lucas says it doesn't. HE IS THE CREATOR. END of story.
I'll admit that Jar Jar was pretty much a stupid character with too much screen time. The battle droids were, incidently supposed to be modeled after Neimodian skeletons, but I don't think a lot of people got thatwith their final designs.
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Were you paying attention to the Gungan battle? I saw Gungans all over get gunned down, blown up by tank fire, etc. True, none of it close up, but it's there.
Like I said, according to Lucas Anakin was intended to be a nonhero/nonvillain agonizingly-normal little boy who gets his dumb luck from having too many midichlorians swimming in his bloodstream. (Of course I still cringe every time he says something idiotic---Now this is Podracing! Yippee! Whoopee! Gah, sounds like my little brother!)
And geez...you're forgetting that Lucas has absolute and total control over the rules of the SW universe. Not fans' assumptions, not book writers. What he says goes, if you can't accept that it's not going to make any difference.
I liked the Nemodian's accents. (Although Jar Jar gets annoying...should have had less screen time...)
As for the other problems, there are two movies to come, so chill.
Oops that was waaay too much ranting
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Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.
hmmmm.... i can't take sides because everyone has some good points. I hated Jake Lloyd as Anakin, he did terrible at acting, why couldn't they have gotten that dude who sees dead people from the sixth sense.
I agree about the droid thing and chopping them up but not showing gore. But there wasn't that much gore in the orig. trilogy either, just bullet holes in stormtroopers. the neimodeans weren't too bad, though if their mouths moved with their voice it would look cooler.
I think Kurgan said something about Jedi's disappearing after death, now i am not disagrreing but what about Vadar, did he disappear, i just remember him getting cremated.
I remember thinking about the Jedi sensing thing myself too, whjy couldn't they see that palpatine was a sith? Oh well. I also think Lucas is gonna be in big trouble if he leaves anythingout after he makes ep.3. If he forgot something fans like us would be mad, ( I know I would )
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Kurgan: You have your opinions, you didn't like Episode I and that's your choice, and I can accept that. I don't have to agree though.
I've been a Star Wars fan since 1984 (I was four), I think I can consider myself a long time fan. I didn't hop on board with Episode I.
You know, I've read your really long post Kurgan. And no matter what you say, if I watched Episode I today, I would still feel that Star Wars magic... TPM, like the OT, grips me. It goes beyong the movie. I get caught up in the podrace, like the Death Star run. I don't want Qui-Gon to die, just like Yoda in the OT. etc etc etc. I don't want to list all the examples.
TPM rocked. Anyways, IMO that is. And that just what it is, my opinion.
Now that we have discussed this, we can agree to disagree and move along
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And if I close my mind in fear,
Please pry it open.