I've been bored, so I decided to dig out a few SWs games. I'm a bit annoyed at some of them, here is a run down.

*Rebellion* Actually I liked rebellion, but the big flaw in this was the AI. There was potential for some huge space battles. The AI always seemed to break it's fleet into smaller groups as soon as it realized I has built a stronge force. For the rest of the game I am only able to engage a few ships at a time with my fleet of dozens... boring. This made the game easier in a way, and it sucked because there was almost never a big cliematic turning point battle.

*X-Wing Alliance* This game had a great storyline and ideas for missions. To bad the missions weren't designed to well. Even with the patch it is buggy and flawed.

Case in point, a mission where Im fighting imp ships. I complete the mission, but no matter what I do, a SSD takes out a bulk cruiser before I can reach the hanger and it fails me. There isn't much I can do against a SSD. I played the mission a dozen times and it always ended the same. There are similair problems in other missions as well.

*TPM* Sucks, simple as that. It would have been at least playable if it would have let me configure the buttons on my mouse, but NOOOOO.

*Force commander* It had great graphics, and the gameplay was OK. The big problem here was that the view controls were kinda crappy. Basicaly I would leave the camera at the same angle for the entire senario. The AI wasn't very bright either.

*Jedi Knight* Fastest (and best I think) MP gameplay around. The netcode sucked though (as with most LEC games) and it was WAY to easy to cheat in MP. MOTS was OK, but the MP maps were way to cramped.

Over all it seems as though many of the game simply weren't finished, or could have been made better by a patch. XWA could have been a great experience with a patch or two, instead it's just frustrating. You can't tell me that having "star wars" on the box didn't help to sell games that wouldn't have even been released otherwise.

I'm just glad that Raven is making JK2.

//End of vent

[ July 23, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

Don't get your hopes up... I predict a rushed game, unless they delay it.

I've stated it numerous times before... ONE YEAR ISN'T ENOUGH, especially for a sequel to a hit.

XWA wasn't buggy... the patch helped a lot. And the multiplayer is a blast! *points to sig* Maybe we should do some melees together! Or, maybe another championship? :D

They already have the engine, netcode, editors, and everything you need to make a few games. A year is enough, imo. All they have to do is make levels, some cutscenes, and some voice acting to go along with it.

Yeah, as of late, LEC has been way off the mark. But we have JK2, SW battlegrounds, SWG, and Knights of the Old Republic coming up.

Im looking forward to JK2, and maybe new republic. I plan on playing MP JK2 only. There will be real compitition again, and probably a CWT.

SWG sounds kinda cool, but read the FAQ. It doesn't involve FPS skills, so the one who has been playing the longest is prolly the one who will win a fight. I don't feel like spending 60 bucks so I can play 15 a month just to play the freaking thing, AND shell out more $ to buy an expansion.

I heard some negative things about Battlegrounds from E3. Everything else is console so I don't care.

Originally posted by Sherack Nhar:
<STRONG>Don't get your hopes up... I predict a rushed game, unless they delay it.

I've stated it numerous times before... ONE YEAR ISN'T ENOUGH, especially for a sequel to a hit.

XWA wasn't buggy... the patch helped a lot. And the multiplayer is a blast! *points to sig* Maybe we should do some melees together! Or, maybe another championship? :D</STRONG>

In most cases i would agree a year isnt enough. But that is only when they are starting from scratch. Raven already had the A.I, Animation systems etc built from SOF2. All they had to do was update the Quake 3 engine. I think a year for JK2 is perfect. It'll probably still get delayed though. Most games do.

Well, I guess it'll be OK as long as they update it as often as ID updates Q3. They do it to not just fix bugs, but make it better. LEC never really got into that, and I still think LEC should have released more patches to improve it's games.

XWA wasn't buggy... the patch helped a lot. And the multiplayer is a blast! *points to sig* Maybe we should do some melees together! Or, maybe another championship? :D[/QB]

Do you think its possible that in being a Member of the owk.net website that sherak nhar had some sort of an advantage in getting that far in the tournament? just a thought...

i dunno, i thought XWA was a kick ass game. i loved the multiplayer... although, that damn last level game me one hell-of-a-time though. kept hitting those damn pipes...

Don't get me wrong, I really liked XWA. BUT, it could have better with another patch.

I agree, LEC have a terrible history of support for their games. They release a game, possibly quite good, and then they do not give it the time it needs. A good game needs to supported, even for just a while after it is released, so they can work on patches to fix problems that people will inevitably come across. No game is released perfect.

With the next breed of LEC games being done by outside companies, I think this will change.

well, cross your fingers...
you are canadian arent you?
i dont know someone from anywhere else that likes edge and christian...

LEC never really got into that, and I still think LEC should have released more patches to improve it's games.

One exception I can think of off the bat is Outlaws.

A great game, and they released several patches that not only fixed bugs, but added new stuff.

Heck, they just released a new patch for D3D support quite recently (and the game was made in 1996). Now THAT is support!

Also, games like XvT had 3D accelerator support added, which wasn't in the original game, so I would count that too, in addition to releasing patches to fix bugs.

Of course it all depends on the company. If a company feels that a game is "good enough" and they feel that adding new features will just cost more than its worth (rather than increasing sales), they probably won't do it. After all, it costs them money to release patches, which people get for free.

I like it when companies patch their products though, but on the other hand, many games ship basically unfinished ("patch later" attitude). Still, I can understand the pressures and difficulties involved in publishing PC games nowadays. Game delays and buggy products lose them money too.

Kurgan

I can see Kurgan's point, I understand the cost vs. sales debate but if it is to fix some major issues dont you think that it is deseradely so, I mean customers pay good money (Some would argue too much, but then with piracy running rampant who can blame them, but this is another topic) for a game and even one flaw can wreck the "gaming experience" as it were.

I also dislike the "patch later" attitude as you call it, but with JK2 set to ignite the JK community what they have to realise is that people will find bugs or perhaps just imbalances in the game. I like it when a game is patched and it changes a something that was unfair for some reason. It shows the company cares for the people who bought it. Also patches that deal with MP cheating problems are always much appretiated.

Posted by PreTZeL
well, cross your fingers...
you are canadian arent you?
i dont know someone from anywhere else that likes edge and christian...

Actually I'm not, but they do so amuse me. They are just goof balls and its funny to see. I mean they arent my favorite wrestlers or anything but for comedic value you cant beat them. They have great on screen charisma for wrestlers.

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

Actually I DO think that game developers should be obligated to fix major bugs and stuff in games that their customers have paid good money for.

What I think is not required of them is to release free addons that add new stuff that wasn't promised for the original game.

This part is entirely optional, and they don't have to do it. It's certainly nice though, as I'm sure anyone will agree.

And free editing is a privelage, not a right.

If I am granted it though, I'm grateful, just like any other gamer.

Kurgan

Kurgan, I agree with what you just said entirely. :)

XWA was alright for a while. But after playing so much of XWvsTF it was kinda too much the same.

I tend to disagree that game developers should not be expected to post some new free content for their games. Many other game companies have been very successful at providing new free content: Valve, id software, Epic, Pandemic, Human Head, Fox, Blizzard, Microsoft, Dynamix, Raven, all have provided free new content, for instance, for their games.

Indeed, LEC's tendency not to publish new free content may be more the exception than the rule for AA titles with multiplay features.

Yes Wilhuf, and it's one of the places they whent wrong.

i agree,
but outcast will be different i hope

Yep, being made by Raven is reassuring.

Also, since id software updates the q3 engine through point releases, we may see a few additional point releases for JKO.

Although it's possible that the final point release for Q3 will be available by the time JKO is published, and no additional JKO point releases that incorporate new engine code will be published.

Rebellions good as it drags you in, I would love to see them actually fix this game to be good.. inc new ai, new tactical overview wit real tactics :)
the interface also bites.

TBH XWA was a let down after the other games in the series.. XW, TF were great, XvT with BoP was good, XWA was just fx and yts..

Focom I never tried.

DFs meant to be good.. but when i finally got a copy, ive got no 9* installs and 2ks dos emulation means dodgy mouse and no sound.

TPM was imho not complete ****, the first level wasnt that bad, it was just totally uninspired.

Racer was great, but alas, no editing, no netplay (save lan) = incomplete.
(ohh and no mp tourney set up, where we could modify vehicles etc.. or even some starting cash to make mini modifications to the vehicles..

thats most of the games ive played from SW, part from Yoda stories, which I loved.. and SotE which was spoilt by being built for a console first :/

of the new games they are develouping out of house now, which is good for quality, as long as they pick good companies..
EF imho had a good SP, and loads of great detailing which added to the atmos, but the mp was just bunged on with minimal thought, mp to me is most important to me, I really hope they put equal effort in atleast as the sp..
and I hope it gets released week 3 of june..

JK makes up for most of the bad in the LEC line tho :)

Originally posted by Sherack Nhar:
<STRONG>I've stated it numerous times before... ONE YEAR ISN'T ENOUGH</STRONG>

How do you explain Elite Force then?

Okay okay... one year is USUALLY not enough.

And Jordus... what the hell are you implying?

Mysteries of the Sith, which is easily as good as Jedi Knight for multiplayer (actually it's better than Jedi Knight for multiplayer, let the flames begin), was developed in less than one year using existing technology developed for Jedi Knight. So I don't see what the worry is over Outcast's timetable.

Hell we've been waiting four years now for a full sequel to Jedi Knight.

me when i first got JK 4 years ago...:
OH MY GOD, I JUST OPENED THE BOX, AND HAVENT EVEN INSTALLED THE GAME!!!
I WANT THE SEQUEL RIGHT NOW!!!
*ahem*
we havent been waiting *that* long wilhuf!

*Flames wilhuf about MotS*

(I think that's enough of a flaming, I really don't want to start that arguement again)

How long have you been waiting for a Jedi Knight sequel?

i didnt really care about one till i heard they were making one, and that it kicks ass

Been looking for a sequel since I first heard about Obi-Wan a few years ago (July 1999 or so).

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

Wilhuf, my story is the opposite! When I finished JK for the first time, I wanted them to do a sequel... But when they announced Obi-Wan, I thought that we would never see a JK2!

However, when they canned the PC version, I began thinking about JK2 again...

Ya, at the time, LEC lead me (and others) to believe that Obi-Wan would be 'in the tradition of Jedi Knight.' LEC's original ad implied Obi-Wan would be a something of a successor to Jedi Knight:

http://www.speakeasy.org/~jbmiller/AF/obiwanad.jpg)

As you know, of course, LEC would later backpedal on this.

All is good, though, now that we have Outcast.

dont count all your chicks yet...
we could see a flop over, God forbid...
if it does...i will seriously discontinue my faith in LEC for the rest of my life, too many disappointments in the past few years...

Quatermain, one of my gaming friends, had a good comment on this: He made the point that that Raven will probably work very hard to make sure that Jedi Outcast goes over well, since it is also their reputation on the line, not just LEC's.

At worst case, if LEC tries to cut corners, we can probably count on Raven to keep them in check.

uhh, that would be like the 12 cents an hour sweatshop worker telling Nike to stop cutting corners, well, prob not at all like that, but i doubt Raven can tell LEC what to do, they can quit, but they prob dont run much of the show..

how dare you post something as outrageous as people making 12 cents an hour?
i have 6 year olds in my backyard making adidas sweatshirts for 5...so help me God, if just ONE of them would have walked by going
"їSenor Cardona, con su permiso, puedo tomar un vaso de agua?"
i wouldve killed you...
man, you think you can just go around saying anything dont you...
these kids can read you know...well some of them anyway

Overheard at a recent LEC Board meeting:

Simon Jeffery: Free drinking water for Raven workers? Out of the question. Terminate them, immediately.

12 cents? oh damn, sorry, i forgot the slash, its 1/2! damn you pay good Prez... i might come work for you...