Ok So I fixed (EDIT: IMPROVED, lol. Probably still not how it should be) my Guybrush walk animation, I think it was a little off before. And rather than just post the same thing again, I added a background for reference.
I also resized this to be more accurate to the size Guybrush will look on your screen. It will be pretty rare he is as big as those full resolution versions in previous posts.
http://amphomepage.com/temp/lee/Guybrush-walk3.gif)
Gotta say, while I see the stiffness others do. It looks pretty cool to me. But maybe part of that is because I love the new Guybrush, such a dork! :thmbup1:
Really could use some more frames though, it really looks choppy to me. My speed might be off too though. I have this at 4 frames per animation frame and 25 frames per second.
Seems smoother in the videos to me, hmmmm.
Yeesh. Don't like it :(
I seriously wouldn't use any top ten modern comic book artists, especially the popular ones who no doubt work for the big two bull**** comic corps, as any kind of standard for good artwork or appealing anatomy. Mainstream comics (and many indies, as well) in the United States have always been a kind of cesspool of the artistic world for the last few decades.
Lol. You are so grouchy lately, it's actually ridiculous. Windsor McCay?! What are you, 100?? Why don't you imagine the the "top ten modern comic artists" are rated by the quality of their output rather than their popularity? (It's nowhere near as bad as the Rob Liefeld era, anyway.)
Ahaha... check this out:
http://s3assets.nextnewnetworks.com/4557.jpg)
Liefeld, you big douche.
I don't know, I don't really have anything nice to say, so I probably shouldn't say it at all. I really hate the comic industry and which artists and writers sell the most blah blah blah, so I'll have nothing but vitriol to spit at the topic and parabolee and the other guy have really rubbed me the wrong way.
I think I'll just go back into Mojo lurk mode unless I have an important game question or something along those lines.
I'm still rubbing you the wrong way? Just give me some directions dude and I'll rub you anyway you want :D
Seriously though Rob Liefeld was a massively talentless assole! :mad:
Did anyone actually like his art?
btw is there a video where the Guybrush sprite gets smaller as he walks away? The zooming in the old ones always was kind of weird. I wonder how it will look in 1080p?
Hopefully better! :) Actually I think they'd even improved it in MI2, so it should be improved here.
OK so I am going to do some comparison work to show this but I have just made an interesting discovery regarding the sliding Guybrush's walking animation does in game.
I was looking at some of the video's and trying to find the cause. And he does do it even when the screen is still. Seems one of the reasons he looks smoother in the videos (than my animation examples above) but slides is that his body is closer to the last frame but his feet are not perfectly lined up with the floor. But here is the discovery -
THE SLIDING WAS IN THE ORGINAL GAME!
Yep you read that right, I was trying to figure out what they did wrong to make him look like he slides a little in the animation so I am comparing the frame placements with the original game and sure enough his feet are a few pixels too far forward after each frame! Causing a slight slide as he walks, however the lower resolution pretty much completely hides this!
But don't take my word for it, I'll prepare some images and animated GIFS showing this real soon. But looking at any video of the original game and viewing it frame by frame will clearly show this.
Pretty shocked to discover this actually, I was sure the sliding was an issue introduced into the SE. But clearly it is also an issue of the higher fidelity exposing flaws we previously could not see.
funny really, that only with the announcing of the Special Edition do people take a more carefull look at the original and discover all sorts of faults no one ever noticed. ^__^
OK here it is, definitive proof that the slide was present in the original game and is just more pronounced in the Special Edition.
I wanted to do more frame examples but too busy at work today so this will have to do. I believe these are taken from the CD VGA version.
http://amphomepage.com/temp/lee/slide-1.png)
Above I have added a green line around the placement of Guybrush's shoe to show where it sits on the ground. A perfect animation would have his foot in the same place in the next frame as it is carrying his weight and not moving. The next frame shown on the right clearly shows that it has slide almost half the length of his foot along the ground! This slide happens in pretty much every frame!
The same images without the outline below.
http://amphomepage.com/temp/lee/slide-2.png)
And an animated GIF of the frames -
http://amphomepage.com/temp/lee/Slide-anim.gif)
When I have more time I'd like to grab shots from the game instead of video so we can see a clear pixel by pixel view of this. Anyone know the easiest way to get video from ScummVM? Or frame by frame screen grabs? Pausing it doesn't work because of the big PAUSE box on top of the screen, although I could work around that.
EDIT:
Thinking more about this more though and looking at the SE frames, I think they could have fixed this by drawing the characters a little smaller inside the bounding boxes and adjusting the positioning so the feet stay in the right place while the whole box moves across the screen.
Now that may cause issue's with lining other things up I guess, and it's hard to speculate without being more familiar with the inner working of the code and playing around with different sprites in the code. But it seems to me that had they been aware of this issue in time, it could have been fixed without changing code.
Surely the person that animated the HD version of Guybrush saw this, I'm wondering if they didn't want to change it... re sticking as close to the original as possible. If this is the case, this is one of the times doing that bites you in the ass... in keeping true with the original frames/sprites they have made it look hoaky in the HD version.
Oh well I'm still looking forward to it and will play it, I mean I can see it now but I didn't ever see it before so I don't see how it would bother me while playing the actual game.
Surely the person that animated the HD version of Guybrush saw this, I'm wondering if they didn't want to change it... re sticking as close to the original as possible. If this is the case, this is one of the times doing that bites you in the ass... in keeping true with the original frames/sprites they have made it look hoaky in the HD version.
Oh well I'm still looking forward to it and will play it, I mean I can see it now but I didn't ever see it before so I don't see how it would bother me while playing the actual game.
Oh yeah it's very minor and should not hinder anyone's enjoyment, that is for sure.
But maybe the animator never saw it. I mean you wouldn't see it when working on upgrading the frames. It would only become apparent once the new artwork is in the game and running. And even then some wouldn't notice it, although the artists should.
Well, um... That's odd. :p
Did anyone notice that Elaine is FLOATING in the Special Edition?
Yeah I was working with that image a little while ago for the Guybrush walk above. Seems that the mapped floor is too high on the whole background and a huge stroke of unfortunate luck exposes that for the worse by the lowest section of the bridge being the part where Elaine stands!
Or more accurately, when they redrew the bridge with the awesome warping, they accidentally allowed it to go lower than the original bridge, DOH!
Easily fixed by moving the background a little higher. Wonder if it will be fixed in time for release? Hope so.
Hehe this thread should be titled "Nitpicking SMI:SE to Death."
Hehe this thread should be titled "Nitpicking SMI:SE to Death."
LOL, maybe.
But in a comparison study nit picking at differences is inevitable.
Although I have to say nit pick I might, but overall all my posts have been of a positive opinion towards the Special Edition.
What happened to all of SyntheticGerbil's posts? Did you guys really piss him off? Shame on you...
Hehe this thread should be titled "Nitpicking SMI:SE to Death."
Hehe. I'm loving this stuff, it's like listening to commentary to a film you've loved for years and learning loads of new things about it.
Comentary can sometimes spoil certain things though, for example in films when you didn't know something was a special effect, then it's later reveal as for example a miniature, it may ruin the experience.
Uh yeah. That was a very random point to make...?
Comentary can sometimes spoil certain things though, for example in films when you didn't know something was a special effect, then it's later reveal as for example a miniature, it may ruin the experience.
Yeah this is true, but I think most of us here are so well versed in Monkey Island minutia that this wont effect us.
Plus anyone worried about spoiling can wait until after they finish it to come back to this thread. Then it will be like a DVD extra :D
Uh yeah. That was a very random point to make...?
I'm just saying MusiclyInspired does have a bit of a point, it's possible to "nitpick" it to death.
But yeah, like parabolee said, that's not that big of an issue for hardend MI fans.
And................... you can always NOT read the thread.
And................... you can always NOT read the thread.
Christ! Do you attack everyone on these threads? Am I the only one noticing this? Can you try and avoid flaming please rather than encourage it
But anyways, this topic is called "A comparison study" so I think it's perfectly fine to discuss the style of the special edition in comparison to the original, without people saying "stop bad mouthing the game, this thread is for comparison". Getting back on topic is NOT just posting screenshots from both games, that is not a study ¬_¬
Who else loves the giant moon? I think I would have actually forgotten it wasn't in the original (despite playing it since like birth) if I hadn't seen it in comparison like that XD It just kinda looks like it was meant to be there
I agree, the new moon fits that scene well. I also like how all the pirates boats are docked at the SCUMM Bar, thats a nice touch. My only real complaint of that entire scene is that they removed the smiley face off the sign of the SCUMM Bar. :(
I like the background artwork like the ships next to the Scumm Bar. The whole game (based on the screenshots) just looks beautiful and more vibrant compared to the original game.
Who else loves the giant moon? I think I would have actually forgotten it wasn't in the original (despite playing it since like birth) if I hadn't seen it in comparison like that XD It just kinda looks like it was meant to be there
I agree, the new moon fits that scene well. I also like how all the pirates boats are docked at the SCUMM Bar, thats a nice touch. My only real complaint of that entire scene is that they removed the smiley face off the sign of the SCUMM Bar. :(
This just goes to show how old and miserable and set-in-my-ways I am, but those things are the only bits that even remotely bother me about the Special Edition. In the old, old EGA version of Monkey Island, when you first arrived in Melee it was sunset. As you walked over the dock, you could see the sun just dropping below the horizon. It was only later on, as time progressed, that it became the night.
http://lucastones.mixnmojo.com/sunset.jpg)
And as for those ships, everyone loves them. But I disagree that they're 'fixing' the fact that there was no dock in the original version - there was a dock! It was down the road, sure, but the dock was where Stan's was.
The problem is that people assume that Stan's is some kind of private harbour for the purposes of his business - but that's crazy. If you were going to set up a business to sell 'used' vessels, why would you go all that way out of town and build it in the middle of nowhere? No-one would go! You'd build it at the existing harbour.
If you look at Melee Island:
http://lucastones.mixnmojo.com/melee.jpg)
You can see that Stan's is in a sheltered cove, which is the only sane place to build a harbour on an unprotected Caribbean island.
And I know people disagree with me, and say "but why would the town be so far away?" It's a fair point. But damn, don't forget that none of these pirates actually want to go out sailing. They're terrified of the ocean! That's all any of them talk about the entire time you're on Melee Island. They're plain scared of LeChuck. And of course, even with all the people you meet on Melee, they could still only man about two or three ships between them. Those are probably the exact ones Stan has for sale, because, if you don't want to go out pirating, you don't need a ship.
Hee what a rant that turned into...
In the old, old EGA version of Monkey Island, when you first arrived in Melee it was sunset. As you walked over the dock, you could see the sun just dropping below the horizon. It was only later on, as time progressed, that it became the night.
But doesn't that go against the whole "Seems like it's ALWAYS ten o'clock on this island." thing. And there was a much smaller moon in the VGA version.
In the summer, especially without light pollution, and with a clear line to the horizon, it's not so crazy that you would still see sunlight in the distance at 10pm. The water you're looking over in that shot is also technically pointing west, which I just realised - assuming the overhead shot of Melee Island uses a top=north system anyway. Not to read too much into things!
But yeah, the moon was smaller in the VGA version, but then the VGA version of the game is the most 'realistic' version of all, and probably the least cartoony Monkey Island game entirely. They seem to be using CMI as their benchmark for the Special Edition, which was obviously a much more styleised game.
Christ! Do you attack everyone on these threads? Am I the only one noticing this? Can you try and avoid flaming please rather than encourage it
What on earth are you talking about? I wasn't attacking anybody, I was merely saying that if the thread is destroying MI for people then they, luckily, don't have to read it. Unlike listening to a DVD commentary where someone might say something that ruins an illusion -- without giving you any warning, you can purposefully skip out of this thread before anything gets spoiled.
Who else have I "attacked"? Please provide links!
Personally I don't think Thunderpeel attacks anyone, and we have disagreed on some things.
I think it's just an issue with message boards not capturing the tone of a post so a negative attitude can be incorrectly inferred. Probably the root of 99% of flame wars. lol.
I also agree, love the huge moon :D
In the summer, especially without light pollution, and with a clear line to the horizon, it's not so crazy that you would still see sunlight in the distance at 10pm. The water you're looking over in that shot is also technically pointing west, which I just realised - assuming the overhead shot of Melee Island uses a top=north system anyway. Not to read too much into things!
Dude were you ever in the Caribbean? I was on vacation in Grenada, Carriacou (which is THE Monkey Island) and the Tobago Keys and the sun goes down at 18:30. It is pitch black at 21:00. Trust me.
And did you see those sandy beaches that are only at the west side of Melee Island? Thats for a reason: The winds come from east and the sand banks normally "grow" on the west side of the islands, which most often is the location of a harbor or bay. The seaside towards the Atlantic is always a lot rougher. At least on the three islands I was on, the harbors always were on the west side facing the Caribbean sea.
You've made a powerful argument! I hadn't considered the factor of the Atlantic being to the east. But I'm still not convinced that, for this particular island, building the harbour in the cove isn't the right thing to do. Obviously the Caribbean gets hit by hurricanes with some regularity, if nothing else a cove provides a breakwater for the waves. But again, this is all essentially ignorant speculation on my part, and there are probably reasons why I'm wrong once again. The interesting thing is, I've never even thought about the beaches on Melee Island (and who would?) but as you've pointed out, if there's a logical reason for them to all be on the westward side then maybe there was more thought put into that map than meets the eye?
I was just playing around on google earth looking at satellite photos of the Caribbean..... I don't really have anything to add just wanted to share
This is far too much realism for an island that's being haunted by a ghost pirate and that has a shop that sells "Rubber-Chickens-with-a-Pulley-in-the-Middle" :)
When I was in The Caribbean and started to study the islands that was the first thing to pop out. We wanted to go to beautiful beaches after all. And it was most always the westward ones that had the perfect white sand and palm trees. The ones facing the Atlantic had rough sea, more wind and normally black sand.
I had ScummVM with me on my mobile and every day befor sleeping played a little Monkey Island, that's when I noticed...
This is far too much realism for an island that's being haunted by a ghost pirate and that has a shop that sells "Rubber-Chickens-with-a-Pulley-in-the-Middle" :)
I agree, in the end it is just a game... meant to entertain you not be true to real life. I think comparing it to older versions of itself is comparison enough. On that note, I never played the EGA version before, only the EGA demo. I think thats really neat how the sun is setting when you first get to Melee Island... kinda stinks how little things like that don't get transferred into the newer versions of the game.
Again I don't know how much you guys care about Cobb and all but I played the EGA version the other day and saw that he looks alot like Cob from Loom in the EGA version, so I added it to my Cobb comparison:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8149/cobbcomparison.jpg)
They just made him look prettier and prettier as the newer versions came out.
I'd love to a hold of the EGA version. Do you still have the same "sunset" background later in the game (like when you're watching the boat with Stan?).
The more I think about it, the more I remember little changes, as well. Like, for example, the "10 O'Clock" joke used to be funnier... Like it would only change the dialogue when you LOOKed at the clock once you'd been to other screens. For some stupid reason, in the later versions Guybrush can complain that it's ALWAYS 10 O'Clock after a few seconds.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Amiga version had a totally different animation for LeChuck revealing himself to Bob... He exploded, as I recall. I wonder if it was different in the EGA version?
They just made him look prettier and prettier as the newer versions came out.
I don't know about you lot but it seems to me like they combined both the EGA and VGA versions when deciding on the Special Edition look (taking note of his badge and jacket)
I don't know about you lot but it seems to me like they combined both the EGA and VGA versions when deciding on the Special Edition look (taking note of his badge and jacket)
Sorta, if you notice in the EGA version he's sitting facing the "camera". In the VGA/SE versions he's sorta sitting sideways and his head is turned to face the "camera". To me, the picture of Cob from Loom matches the EGA Cobb, and the VGA Cobb matches the SE Cobb. They just made them look nicer in each version as they had more colors to work with.
I'd love to a hold of the EGA version. Do you still have the same "sunset" background later in the game (like when you're watching the boat with Stan?).
Start of game:
http://lucastones.mixnmojo.com/sunset.jpg)
After a short while:
http://lucastones.mixnmojo.com/sunset2.jpg)
Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Amiga version had a totally different animation for LeChuck revealing himself to Bob... He exploded, as I recall. I wonder if it was different in the EGA version?
Revealing himself to Bob? Do you mean the Fester Shinetop scene on the boat? In the EGA version he sort of... steps out of Fester. Quite a nice animation though...
I wonder how that will look in the SE, revealing fester is just a suit. It was quite gory in the VGA version.
They just made him look prettier and prettier as the newer versions came out.
Actually, you have the order slightly messed up. The VGA version of Loom came out two years after the VGA version of Monkey Island 1.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9172/cobh.jpg)
Oh, I also didn't have a picture of EGA Cob from Loom. I was sorta matching them up really. The top picture of Cob in Loom looked simular to the EGA version of Cobb in SMI, and again the VGA picture of Cobb looked simular to the SE version.
People have been talking about hoping they remake MI2 next... I was thinking with Cobb in SMI:SE it would make sense to me if they made Loom next since he advertises that. Personally I'd rather MI2 be next but it seems like it would be more work to make it and make it right.
Wow, they literally used the same graphic from Loom -- but gave him a beard and a hat, lol! All of the boils from his face have completely gone from the SE, but I never noticed they were there anyway :)
Man... the sunset at the start of the game is brilliant, I never knew about that. I wish it were in the Special Edition or the VGA version that I played.
On a side note, Monkey Island is the one game that always gets me in an artistic mood :P
It's possible to run the VGA version in EGA mode I believe (possibly with the exception of the CD version, unless I just imagined that.) In ScummVM you can go into 'edit game' and change the graphics from 'default' to 'EGA' (or whatever else you want to try) and it should work. If you're playing from a floppy disk version of the game you can change the music also.
Aha! So the sunset is only visible the first time you visit the docks... After that it's night-time. A nice touch...
I think Cobb is wearing a fake beard, it's attached to his hat.
It doesn´t work!
But you can play it with PC Speaker. MI 1 sounds good. All the same good.
It's not that clear though, if it's actually a fake beard, or just looks like that cause of the string attached to his hat.