I've heard good reports about the Asus.

But as you can guess Char, If I was going to commit to corei7, I'd go for the Shuttle SX58H7 in a snap ;)

mtfbwya

Man, what's it going to take to cure you of your proprietary hardware madness? :p

Anywho, I'm gathering the final pieces of the puzzle together now, and I should get them by the middle of next week. It's going to come to ~$600.00 after rebates and other discounts, but it's going to be a lot nicer than I had originally planned for ~$50.00-$100.00 more than I was originally intending to spend (ain't that always the way it goes? ;)), while still being about 2/3 of the cost of a Core i7 system.

Core i7??? a bit too overpriced and slightly overhyped, IMHO. is there any hope in me convincing you to go with a high end Core 2 Quad or a Phenom II?? :p

at least prices on DDR3 are a lot lower than they were a year ago. :)

I mostly agree, but I dont think that Core i7 is overhyped, sporting a 17% single-threaded IPC advantage over Core 2 Quad like it does, even with it's anemic L2 cache. And Hyper-Threading enables it to handle 8 simultaneous threads almost as well as 2 C2Qs put together. Recent BIOS and driver revisions have really improved its performance in the ~6 months since it was released. It's really all about what you'll need it for. Avery's building a new rig for graphics design and she'll definitely need Core i7. I'm not even going quad-core, ATM; I just don't need it. What I do need is maximum single- and dual-core performance for gaming.

Here's the hardware and OS that I've already bought with prices adjusted for rebates and discounts:

Motherboard: Zotac nForce 780i Supreme -$116.08
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 6M E8400 -$128.79
RAM: Corsair XMS2 2x2GB PC2-8500 (5-5-5-15) -$30.00
Graphics Cards: 2xPNY 9600 GSO (96SP, 192-bit model) 768MB GDDR3 -These two cards in SLI should deliver the performance level of the GTX 260 at least -$80.00 for both! :rock:
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB -$68.24
Optical Drive: Sony 24x SATA DVD burner -$22.80
CPU Heatsink: Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer 120mm -$28.99
Case Fans: Scythe 120mm and Cooler Master 80mm -$15.58
Case: Ultra Wizard (Junky, but it works. Hell, I don't care what it looks like. :p) -FREE*
Power Supply: Ultra X-Finity 600W (definitely NOT junk) -FREE*
Operating System: MS Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit -$77.99

Total: (so far): $568.47, and I didn't have to pay tax or shipping on any of it. :D



*Yes, FREE. Fry's Electronics and Ultra were running these crazy promotions a couple of years ago when Ultra was first entering the US market. I got a case and a couple of PSUs for free after rebate. Good times. :)

And, yes, I'm going to overclock the absolute crap out of this thing once I get it put together. 4+GHz, here I come! :emodanc:

Those are some amazing prices Q. You are definitely a bargain hunting master. ;)

I've heard good reports about the Asus.

But as you can guess Char, If I was going to commit to corei7, I'd go for the Shuttle SX58H7 in a snap ;)

mtfbwya Good to know. To me it's a toss up between these two. As far as h/w choice goes, I already have a case and 80+ Bronze PSU that I don't feel like sidelining. Still waiting for Shuttle to come out with an AM3 model so I can use it to try my hand at running a media center. ;)

Core i7??? a bit too overpriced and slightly overhyped, IMHO. is there any hope in me convincing you to go with a high end Core 2 Quad or a Phenom II?? :p Considering I'm currently using a Pentium 4 and am on a 4-5 year upgrade cycle, probably not. Besides, I do want the multi-threading horsepower for video editing. The Pentium 4 just isn't making it happen. And I'd rather go with the integrated memory controller solution than Core 2 Quad FSB. As for Phenom II, its performance really doesn't match up to Core i7. That being said, I'm trying to hold out for a price drop so I can buy a Core i7 920 for $250 or less. Not sure how much longer I'll manage to wait though. :)

You can already get a 920 for $229.99 if you live near a Micro Center. It was down to $199.99 for a few days recently.

Hmmm.... Unfortunately I do not live within a reasonable driving distance from any Micro Center. I'll keep that in mind though so thanks. :)

Yeah, neither do I. :(

It shouldn't be too long before the 920's price comes down elsewhere, if only temporarily.

Oh great Tech Community, I invoke thy powers to give me advice!

As some of you may know, I happen to have a spanking new computer that has a decent onboard video solution to boot. I plan on buying a video card by Christmas this year, so I was wondering what the local rap is about graphic cards.

I have my eyes on ATi's 4470 and 4850, the latter appears to have higher benchmarks, but the latter has some sexy tech wizardry with GDDR5 memory or some such. I do not know about the nVidia camp, so I'm especially interested if there are any nVidia cards worth their salt (I hear they have that fancy new PhysX thingie included now).

Budget is $100, low cost is appreciated. Card should last out for some 3-4 years (be able to play new games at Highest/High/Medium-High at least), and I'm not too interested in overclocking.

Current system:

AMD Phenom X4 9950 BE
2 GB RAM (will prolly buy another 2GB stick with the GPU)
One PCIe slot (no crossfire/SLI kthxbai)

Congrats on the new rig, Sabretooth. As far as I know the Radeon HD 4850 uses GDDR3 memory so nothing particularly unusual or snazzy about its memory. From an initial search it appears there are a few of these cards that can be purchased for USD$100 or slightly less. If rumors are true though and AMD launches its next gen of GPU's in the next couple of months we may see more price drops for the 48xx cards before too long.

Also, if you're in India then what merchants can you purchase from? I don't want to quote some prices from different websites only to find out you can't buy from them. Q is pretty good at finding smoking deals though so hopefully he'll chime in with some recommendations.

What resolution do you plan/want to use when playing your games over the next couple of years? That will play a big role in determining what card you will need to meet your Very High/High quality graphic gameplay requirements.

My monitor only goes upto 1360x768, so I don't think that's very huge. :D

I'll most probably get the card off a local dealer who generally sells cheap, but I just wanted to know what the perfect card will be. I'll be buying somewhere around Christmas, so that's some 4 months left for prices to drop. So the price issue is kinda vague, just give me a good mainstream card to consider that'll retail at around $100.

And btw, I meant to say former, the 4770 has GDDR5, not 4850. :D

wow - If Q can find cheap deals in India, then that will be a super effort!

Surely you have a local pc shops sabre? If nit, there's always ebay India.

Finally, you did not mention which power supply you had - it has some bearing on certain card choices.

mtfbwya

by that time, i wouldn't be surprised to see Radeon 4890 prices at around $100 or so, knowing AMD's strategy of price cutting these days. and don't count out Nvidia, either. i highly doubt that they'll just sit by and do nothing while AMD launches a whole new line of graphics cards in time for the holidays.

you have to remember that all bets are off with pricing in the PC Hardware market when something new comes around. there's always a lot of savings to be had as companies try to stay competitive price-wise, so keep that in mind. ;)

GDDR5 isnt all it's cracked up to be. You have a performance boost to measure against increased power draw and heat production...which then affects performance!! *sigh* why the heck did AMD buy ATI....

*laments*

mtfbwya

Because it happened during the reign of Ruinz?

Still, I'd be willing to bet that Nvidia's next top-line cards will be using GDDR5. ;)

Because it happened during the reign of Ruinz?

Still, I'd be willing to bet that Nvidia's next top-line cards will be using GDDR5. ;)

I posted the GT300s reported/leaked specs earlier on - Ive gone blank in recalling them :( Not a suprise at all. Some of their mid end cards already do sport it.

Im thinking nvidia were hoping to pair the 'hot-hot-hot- GDDR5 with the relatively cooler 55nm(and smaller) parts and arrive at some type of happier medium than the Radeon 4870X2 marshmallow cooker

Astro

My monitor only goes upto 1360x768, so I don't think that's very huge. :D

I'll most probably get the card off a local dealer who generally sells cheap, but I just wanted to know what the perfect card will be. I'll be buying somewhere around Christmas, so that's some 4 months left for prices to drop. So the price issue is kinda vague, just give me a good mainstream card to consider that'll retail at around $100.

And btw, I meant to say former, the 4770 has GDDR5, not 4850. :D
Those two cards are similar in performance, with the 4770 sporting the newer tech (45nm GPU, GDDR5 using a 128-bit bus) and the 4850 using slighly older tech (55nm GPU, GDDR3 on a 256-bit bus). I would still get the 4850, because its GPU features the full 800 shaders compared with the 4770's 640(?). Both can be had for about the same price here in the states. At your resolution you shouldn't need a frame buffer any larger than 512MB. Just make sure that it comes with adequate cooling, or that your case has good ventilation, and be sure to use a utility to adjust the fan speed. Some of those 4850s have downright crappy coolers.

Okey-do then, no 4770. Do I get any special bonuses for an AMD/ATi pair? :p

As for the PSU, I currently have a 400W I got with the case. I'm guessing these new hotshots will need a 500? I've got two extra fan slots too, I'm guessing I'll have to get them filled to cool the GPU.

Hopefully that should keep temperatures cool, but I really am impressed by how these new swanky computers can handle well under pressure. My old PC was very cranky with temperature, had to keep the window open or it overheated and went dud until it cooled down. And on the opposite end, if temps got too low in the monsoon, I had to resurrect it with a hair dryer. :D

Is nVidia's PhysX thingie worth the buy? Anything from the green camp I should be interested in?

Hopefully that should keep temperatures cool, but I really am impressed by how these new swanky computers can handle well under pressure...

Tell me about it. I have 295 and a core i7 in a case the size of a loaf of bread. If it was a prescott and a 7950GX2, there'd me a mushroom cloud over my house after 2 mins of any newer game at higher rez'

Some people can hate on it as much as they want, some of the credit for this does go to Vista, and its capacity to handle higher processing demands and Dx10 games

mtfbwya

Oh, crap. I forgot about the PSU demands. :whacked:

Sabre, at your resolution, just get a 4770 512MB and call it a day. Its GPU is actually 40nm, not the 45nm that I initially believed it was, and it barely draws 80W (80 watts/12 volts=6.67 amps) so there'd no extra expense involved. Like I said, you wouldn't notice much of a difference in performance because of the 4770's higher clockspeed. :)

Oh, and you do get a (sort of) bonus by combining that motherboard, which features an integrated ATI GPU, with an ATI video card. It's called Hybrid Crossfire, which combines the power of both GPUs. I'll admit that I don't know much about it, though. I would theorize, however, that if the motherboard GPU is that much weaker than the one in the video card, which in this case it definitely would be, it might actually degrade the overall video performance. It'd definitely be worth checking out, though. ;)

Nah, I checked out the Crossfire, the HD 3200 is only compatible with HD 3450 or and one other card that's weaker. In any case, it's not recommended. :D

So I can jack in a 4770 without requiring a PSU upgrade? This thingie can work with a measly 400 W of power, you say?

It should be able to, yes. It's performance should also be quite adequate at your resolution. It supposedly overclocks well, too. You may not be interested in that feature right now, but you might later on when the card gets older and doesn't perform as well with newer games, or if you end up getting a higher-resolution monitor down the line. ATI's drivers also feature built-in overclocking, up to a certain point.

Told you that I didn't know very much about Hybrid Crossfire. :xp:

Alrighty then, I think the 4770 should be it, unless some other card drops down to $100-ish by year-end. >_>

Sure I shouldn't be looking at nVidia? Because that's what I was actually curious about, I've no idea about what they're doing.

You'll pay more for the same level of performance. ;)

Nvidia's main advantages lie with CUDA which helps give it awesome (as in 2x) F@H performance when compared to ATI, Phys-X, which is available on a few titles but hasn't really taken off yet because it's an Nvidia exclusive and most game developers aren't going to use the resources to support something that isn't an industry standard, and drivers that are arguably easier to use.

The only reason that I chose Nvdia for my current build was because I found two 9600 GSO 768MB cards for $40.00 apiece and a 780i SLI motherboard for $116.00. Phys-X, F@H performance and a driver interface that I'm used to are just nice bonuses.

For around $100.00, ATI rules the roost when it comes to getting the most bang for the buck. If you like Nvidia, though, look around for an 8800 GTS 512MB, 9800GTX 512MB, 98000GTX+ 512MB or a GTS 250 512MB. They're all pretty much the same card and in he same performance category as the 4770/4850. For slightly less performance you could try an 8800GT or 9800GT. Whether or not they will run on that 400W PSU of yours, I don't know, but I believe that they draw a little less power than the 4850. I still think that the 4770 would be your best bet, though, because I know that it would run on it. Its performance per Watt is probably the best of any video card on the market right now.

ok, so i'm looking to start a new build for my next computer (the old one is up for sale now). normally, i'm not one to look for advise in this particular area, but i managed to get myself a pretty good deal by trading a 500GB WD Caviar Black for a small-form factor ATX case (in particular, its a Shuttle, although i forgot the model number). i'm probably going to use it since i need something more portable this time around for a number of reasons (such as switching residences, LAN parties, etc).

now, i'm aware that i need a mini ATX factor board and so on, but i do have a couple of quick questions:

1. is there a way i can get my hands on a power supply that's designed for small form factors (ie, shorter cables, smaller size, etc) that can also put out big power??

2. i'm also concerned with cooling because of the thermal properties of a smaller case. should i stick with the stock coolers for whatever CPU i use, or is there something better (and noise is not a factor)??

and finally, i'm aiming to have all the parts ordered probably in November so i can take advantage of the W7 launch, the Radeon 58xx launch, and the Intel Core i5/i7 launch. the problem right now is that i'm not really wanting to go Intel (my heart aches at the thought), and i'm not convinced that a PII 940 BE is going to cut it for future proofing. given AMD's track record of supporting the AM2/AM2+ Socket, though, i'm wondering if there wouldn't be some merit in going AMD with an AM3 board and upgrading to the latest and greatest AMD has when it comes out.

basically, should i commit to an AMD platform with reduced performance with the inent of upgrading later, or should i just give in and go Intel and get the high end performance i want right now??

Hello people, I suppose I should start by thanking you all for your help before, way back on pages one and two.

I'm building another machine. I've agreed to build a PC for my sister's boyfriend. He wants a gaming rig which he wants to connect to a HDTV, and it has to have a blu-ray player. He hasn't asked for anything more specific than that, so I was wondering what you guys thought, since you were so helpful before? Obviously it's quite a big responsibility spending what is probably a good portion of his paycheck for him. ;)

I was thinking that crossfire/SLI might possibly be the way to go with an HDTV in the equation. I've never gone in this direction before though. Thoughts?

TIA.

you don't need Xfire or SLI for an HDTV. most mid to high end of the current generation can easily handle the majority of games @ 1080p. if you're looking for extra oomph at 1080p, all you really need is a card with 1GB of video RAM on it.

Well I'm sure some of you are aware I have been having a hard time coming up with a half decent system to use and I was wondering. Would it be possible to put a newish CPU on a system with a Intel Pentium III. I'm not talking about anything super fast, I just want to know if its possible. I'm having a hell of a time with computers lately.

Another question: I have a motherboard here that quit working one day. I was wondering if the CPU would still be any good to try in another motherboard. There were some light burn marks where the PSU connected, it was with the older 20-pin connector, the burn marks were where the two side by side red wires connect.

Thanks for any help!

Well I thought I would see what you guys think about the Barebone Kit I've ordered. As I got word today that my motherboard is shot in my laptop. Damn HP burned up

Click (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5205403&Sku=B69-1107)

I have a 450 Watt Power supply I will be putting in. As well as a 160GB HDD. I also have a old CDRW drive for it. I don't have the money for a new one atm.

But for a simple replacement computer I think it is a good deal. I opted for not getting another laptop, seeing as how when I go to collage I'll just have to buy a new one, anyway. lol. But what do you guys think? And it will play Kotor :)

its not bad. its not a screaming fast system mind you, but if its just something for the short term, then its not a bad deal. ;)

It will be faster then my Laptop was. The laptop was a AMD Athlon X2 at 1.6GHz with 1GB of RAM. I figure I can upgrade this as I need to. And like I said I don't need much.
I will let you guys know when I get it all set up and running.
Plus this will be a good first build computer. Remember I'm just a beginner. haha :)

Well now I'm having some problems, Im not sure if I should post here or make a new thread. So bare with me.

When I got This (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5205403&Sku=B69-1107) computer all put together and tried to start it up the first time, the power supply and the CPU fan started. But the screen stayed blank and it issued 9 beeps. Then it would be quiet, then 9 more, quiet 9 more etc. I've been trying to figure it out all night with no luck. The manual says 1 long with 9 short beeps is a BIOS ROM error. But it was 9 long beeps. and the book doesn't give me any help on it.

I have both my HDD and my CD drive on the same IDE since there is only one connector. Idk if that makes a difference or not.

I'm almost positive I have it all hooked up right. there isn't any question on where to put everything its all pretty straight forward. So I'm lost and really want the first computer I try to build to work

Soo.... Please help me!

Thanks in advance for any help. I know I'm in good hands with the people here :)

Try unplugging it and removing the battery. If there's a clear CMOS jumper, then jump it, replace the battery, plug it in and see if it POSTs. f there is no jumper, then leaving the battery out for ~20 minutes should do the same thing, but it should have a jumper.

you'll also want to research what those beeps actually mean since its actually an excellent diagnostic tool. what is the make and model of the motherboard??

The parts are in the link he provided (it isn't obvious, and I nearly missed it, myself). It's a Gigabyte G41M-ES2L. I've been Googling it, but haven't managed to find out what nine long beeps mean yet.

The parts are in the link he provided (it isn't obvious, and I nearly missed it, myself). It's a Gigabyte G41M-ES2L. I've been Googling it, but haven't managed to find out what nine long beeps mean yet.


Sorry about that :/ Its been a irritating day trying to figure this out. I've spent all day Googling my motherboard with no luck.

I did try clearing the CMOS, there is a jumper. I tried both jumping it and taking the battery out with no change.

I also tried laying it on cardboard and just hooking up the PSU to the motherboard with just the RAM and CPU in it. and the speaker. No luck.

I found one person that has had a simmilar problems. its not the same but its close Problem (http://support.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=pbgt&thread=337527&page=1#3796776)

well, after doing a bit of research, you'll probably have to contact Gigabyte about the problem. that board uses the Award BIOS, and that means that the error codes are not all universally the same since Award BIOS are open for modification by the manufacturers. Gigabyte should have a database somewhere that their tech support can access that will tell you what the error code means.

you can try here for e-mail (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/ServiceCenter.aspx), but i usually just use the phone. ;)

Well thanks for your help. I think I'll try e-mailing them. Or have dad call them. Hopefully this turns out to be simple so I can have a working computer soon


EDIT: I did some searching on Award BIOS and everything I have been able to find has said that the beeps I have been getting mean I have a RAM error.

So should I replace my RAM first or just contact Gigabyte?

Here is what I have for RAM now. It came with the barebone kit I got.

Ultra DDR2 2048MB PC2-5300 667MHz

EDIT AGAIN::
Here are the beep codes in my Users Manual

1 short: System boots successfully
2 short: CMOS setting error
1 long 1 short: DRAM or M/B error
1 long 2 short: Monitor or display card error
1 long 3 short: Keyboard error
1 long 9 short: BIOS ROM error
Continuous long beeps: DRAM error
Continuous short beeps: Power error

Non of those seem to apply to whats happening to me. But I thought I'd share them

Try it again with only 1 RAM stick in the first slot. First one and then the other.

If you're still having trouble, try reseating the CPU.

Try it again with only 1 RAM stick in the first slot. First one and then the other.

If you're still having trouble, try reseating the CPU.

I only have one RAM stick. Its a single 2GB stick. But I tried it in both slots.

I tried reseating the CPU(taking it out checking it and putting it back in, I made sure it was in right even though its impossible to put it in wrong)

So either bad RAM or I got a bad board. Which happens so I'm not mad so long as I can a replacement

Try testing the RAM stick in someone else's computer. DDR2 machines are pretty common, and you'll be able to tell right away if that stick is bad.

BTW: what version of Windows were you planning on using?

Try testing the RAM stick in someone else's computer. DDR2 machines are pretty common, and you'll be able to tell right away if that stick is bad.

BTW: what version of Windows were you planning on using?

I tested the RAM in my dads computer. It didn't work. So I took it out and it worked again. So I took one of his RAM stick(he had 8GB of ram he can afford the lose of 2GB, lol) and put it in my rig and it worked!! Thank you all so much for your help. I'm gonna have dad call tiger direct and get my RAM replaced.. But for now I'm up and running.

Thank you stingerhs and Q. You have both helped so much! I'll let you know when I get my rig finished and my OS setup.

I'm planning on using XP Pro SP3. Since I have a copy of that already. I may upgrade to 7 though if I feel it will be cost effective. But XP still works for me. And I hated Vista


EDIT: Hey is it possible to have both a IDE HDD and CD drive on the same IDE cable? Because if not then I need either a new CD drive or HDD

Yeah, one will be the master and one will be the slave, with the top (black) plug for the master the lower (gray) plug for the slave and the blue plug for the motherboard. There are jumpers on the backs of IDE drives which you have to set to "master", "slave" or "cable select". If you set both drives to "cable select", master and slave will be determined by what plug they're plugged into, so I usually just use the "cable select" setting for both drives.

Glad to hear that you figured out your problem. :)

Does it matter which is the Slave and which the master? since one is a CD/DVD drive and the other is a Hard Drive? Will it make a difference one way or another?
The motherboard end is green now. at least on this one. lol

Thanks for your help, Q. I couldn't have done it without you :)

^^^^
all it does is set which channel the two drives are using on the cable so the signals don't get mixed up on that same cable. channel 0 is the master while channel 1 is the slave. it has nothing to do with boot priority or one drive controlling the other.

while that matters to the tech world, its easier to just have the jumper in the "cable select" setting. in fact, most IDE devices nowadays are shipped with the jumper already set in the "cable select" setting to make the drives easier to install. ;)

I set my CD/DVD drive to slave and the HDD to master. In fact I am typing this from my new computer. So far everything is working great! I got all my drivers and updates installed and its working fine. I love it!

Thank you for your help. I learned a lot doing this. Thanks :)
If I have anymore problems I will post here first.

Well I am in need of a video card. I want something that will play Star Wars the force unleashed USE.

I need something on the cheaper side. I have a 450watt PSU

I was thinking something like this This Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161319)
or
This one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125238)

I need something that is decent for under $150. I know I'm asking a lot.
Thanks for any help!

Sorry that I didn't see this sooner. :(

Actually, you're not asking for too much at all. Not for $150 or less. This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131328&nm_mc=OTC-C173T&cm_mmc=OTC-C173T-_-Video+Cards-_-Powercolor-_-14131328) is easily the most powerful card that your PSU can handle. It's quite a bit faster than either of those other cards that you linked to and it's within your budget. You can get an additional 2% off if you have a Windows Live ID and go to Newegg via Bing Shopping, making the final price $117.29.

EDIT: I'll keep you up to date when I find new deals if you want. I may be able to find a 1GB model for not much more if you want a bigger frame buffer. The 5770 is definitely the card to get in your price range that will run on your power supply.

I actually went for the HIS ATI Radeon HD 4670 1GBDDR3 and I love it. I can't hear it at all, and in runs very cool. I forget how much I paid. but it was under $100. And it plays the force unleashed flawlessly! So I should be set for awhile. Maybe when I update my PSU I'll look in to a more powerful card. Or else on my next build..

Thanks anyway though, Q!

I actually went for the HIS ATI Radeon HD 4670 1GBDDR3 and I love it. I can't hear it at all, and in runs very cool. I forget how much I paid. but it was under $100. And it plays the force unleashed flawlessly! So I should be set for awhile. Maybe when I update my PSU I'll look in to a more powerful card. Or else on my next build..


Hey I just got the same card, works wonderfully, plans TFU nicely (except the first level), plays every other game I have tried at a decent frame rate, even crysis, not bad for a card I payed $60 for. :thmbup1: