I know, I can't wait...I think that's the ONE.

I know Im going to sound like a sour ole basted but do you really need a lappie? Is portability a huge issue? Speaking purely from experience(I had a Toshiba Satteliite 5200 which was awesome back in its day!!)

1. The cost, damn :( Can build a damn fine deskie for the cost of a higher end gaming ready lappie.

2. Important bits not upgradeable.. Driver support for Mobile GPUs is woeful! Watch the deskie world go through 50 revisions and you get a handful if youre lucky :D

3. Heat! Heat! Heat! It was lucky I had a 3 year warranty on it as I thrashed it so hard it needed to have the drive replaced twice and the CPU once, simply from being overcooked.

If you do decide to go with it, please get yourself a cooling pad, if you're the heavy use type.

mtfbwya

Hey...thanks for the advice, but I ended up getting that one...I love it...
Heat is not an issue thus far, and I love Vista (as I knew I would)...
Thanks for all the help guys!

Update:
I love this computer. Grim Fandango wouldn't even install one file, so I used the installer that put it directly onto my HD, and it now works like a charm...not possible to be mad or upset if GF works...

Update:
I love this computer. Grim Fandango wouldn't even install one file, so I used the installer that put it directly onto my HD, and it now works like a charm...not possible to be mad or upset if GF works...

ok then. Have fun! Just remember Old Astro's advice about cooling pads will ya ;)

mtfbwya

Another one for the AMD list:

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H (Newegg.com) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128090)

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H (Scan.co.uk) (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=775308)

And an in depth review (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/03/04/amd_780g_integrated_graphics_chipset/1) of the 780G chipset and the above mentioned board...

This is now hands down my mobo of choice as I'm an AMD fanboy and this actually doen't make me feel ashamed to say it anymore, with a low TDP, Hybrid Crossfire, integrated GPU that's better than some discrete GPUs and an insanely low price, I wish I could buy it this second cause I wouldn't hesitate! So what exactly does Hybrid Crossfire do? If I were to get this mobo and install a HD 3870 discrete card on it would my games be able to utilize both the HD 3870 and the onboard HD 3200 to render the display or only the 3870? From the bit-tech article it doesn't sound like Hybrid Crossfire will initially support switching between the onboard and the discrete GPU.

So what exactly does Hybrid Crossfire do? If I were to get this mobo and install a HD 3870 discrete card on it would my games be able to utilize both the HD 3870 and the onboard HD 3200 to render the display or only the 3870? From the bit-tech article it doesn't sound like Hybrid Crossfire will initially support switching between the onboard and the discrete GPU.
Sorry I thought it explained that in the article, but I've definitely read it somewhere, I'll maybe try and dig it up at some point.

Hybrid CrossFire means just that, instead of having to use two identical cards, you can use two different ones, but in this particular case, it's an on-board GPU with a discrete card.

The on-board handles pretty much everything in Windows (even Vista Aero) as it's the most powerful on-board solution to date.
When you start up a game, the discrete card will kick in on top of the on-board graphics to give you Hybrid Crossfire, which gives you a decent boost in certain games apparently, even more so because the on-board GPU on the above mentioned mobo is apparently a doozy to overclock without any extra need for cooling. Even though it's not as powerful as an HD3870 or even 3850, boosting the core from 500Mhz to about 700/750Mhz is nothing to sniff at, couple that with a decent mid-range GPU (HD3850/3870) and the mid-range isn't quite as dull anymore!

Updated the second (recommended parts list - new Intel Quad Core!) and third (General FAQ - OEM vs Retail, hardware pricing) posts of this thread with new information. :)

Hybrid CrossFire means just that, instead of having to use two identical cards, you can use two different ones, but in this particular case, it's an on-board GPU with a discrete card.

The on-board handles pretty much everything in Windows (even Vista Aero) as it's the most powerful on-board solution to date.
When you start up a game, the discrete card will kick in on top of the on-board graphics to give you Hybrid Crossfire, which gives you a decent boost in certain games apparently, even more so because the on-board GPU on the above mentioned mobo is apparently a doozy to overclock without any extra need for cooling. Even though it's not as powerful as an HD3870 or even 3850, boosting the core from 500Mhz to about 700/750Mhz is nothing to sniff at, couple that with a decent mid-range GPU (HD3850/3870) and the mid-range isn't quite as dull anymore! That sounds pretty much like what I'm looking for. Mid-range to high-end discrete card is in a powered off or very low standby power state while low to mid-range onboard GPU runs non-GPU intensive apps like general web browsing, e-mail, office apps, etc. But when GPU activity starts to hit 85-90% utilization or so then the chipset, GPU, or other h/w device powers up the discrete card and both onboard and discrete GPU's are used to render the display.

I'm not sure I'd go for the idea of the onboard GPU switching over to the discrete card and not being used until the GPU load drops enough that the switchback threshold is reached and the discrete hands off GP to the onboard again. I don't know, maybe there are technical limitations around running two GPU's with significant differences in GP computational capabilities but if that is the way it works it seems to me that this becomes a one-dimensional benefit of power savings instead of power savings with increased GP power. I look forward to reading in-depth reviews of hybrid GP products to learn more about how this works.

I need some more help...

I got everything a while back, and last weekend I just got around to putting it all together. But I ran into a problem. The motherboard I bought apparently needs to be plugged into the PSU via a 4-pin ATX 12V cable... it definitely says so in the manual. But I don't have one. I read up on it, and apparently older motherboards tended to require the 4-pin cable in order to give the processor a bit more juice. Is that right? But the mobo I have definitely supports Core 2 Duo. The cable didn't come with the mobo and it didn't come with the PSU either. There doesn't seem to be anywhere where you can buy said cable seperately. What can I do about it?

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7043/12v4pinlz8.th.jpg) (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12v4pinlz8.jpg)

^ Picture (not of my hardware, but a picture of what I mean, in case I haven't explained anything properly).

Huh?

I thought all PSUs came with those. What type of PSU are you using? Are you sure that there isn't one on the PSU?

Positive. I've got somewhere to plug one in to...

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4036/psuja0.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psuja0.jpg)

...but no cable.

(excuse the quality of the pic, it's from a phone since I couldn't be bothered to find the digital camera).

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=602505)

^ This was what I ended up getting.

every computer i know of uses a 12V ATX cable (mostly 4-pin, but some use an 8-pin), and as far as i know, every ATX PSU comes with one. check and see if you didn't confuse it with a PCI-E connector (those should be 6-pin, but sometimes they'll be 8-pin).

if you're using a modular PSU, the 12V ATX connector should be on the non-detachable strands of wires from the back of the unit. and, no, it doesn't detach from the 24-pin main power connector (the part that detaches does so to fit older motherboards with a 20-pin connector).

anyways, let us know if that helps. ;)

unusual.... does the rig start without it??? Check your PSU manual, it should say what cables should be included. Thats a decent PSU btw, silverstone make some good kit ;)

mtfbwya

It's definitely not there. There's even a key next to it on the PSU itself to show you where the cable should be, and it's just not there. All of the cables on the back of the PSU are detachable...

I also seem to be missing a PCI-E cable, but that isn't really needed anyway since I don't have that many expansions. :p

I've just emailed the people I got it from. Hopefully they'll be able to just send me a cable for it, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

@ Astro, I just checked the manual and the manual seems to indicate that it should be there, as well as the relevant technical specs on the site I got it from, but it's not there. I haven't tried attempting to boot it, though. Do you think it's worth bothering?

Is it a modular PSU you've got?

I don't even know what that means, but yeah supposedly it is. Click on the link in post #61 and click on the technical specs tab on that page, and it should tell you everything relevant there is to know... it clearly states there that there is an ATX connector but I never got one!

My bad, I should've just checked that...I've no personal experience with modular PSUs, so I don't know if the 4-pin 12V ATX cable would come separately from the 20-pin one, or if it's the 20+4-pin one that's incomplete...

What motherboard have you got?
And when you connected the motherboard cable, does it fit properly? I doesn't have an excess on either side does it? Cause your pic only shows one side of it...

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=657881)
^ Mobo.

The 20+4 pin cable is fine, I'm just missing the seperate 4-pin cable.

yes, it is a modular PSU ;)

This means that rather than one mess of cables snaking out of a PSU, that there are specific individual cables/connections for each area of a mainboard ie. "module"

The pci-e cabe usually comes with your 1337 powered graphics card. If I were you, I'd
contact the place you got it from to inquire about the seemingly missing cable!

Funny that you havent tried booting it though ;)

good luck

mtfbwya

Looks like that 4-pin and the PCI-E cables were just left out. Weird.:(

Yeah, you should contact who you got it from because it's definitely supposed to come with those. Ask for the PCI-E cable as well because a lot of video cards require 2 of those now.

Just an update: it turns out that I was not missing anything. The 8-pin connector that came with the PSU splits into two 4-pin connectors., and you're supposed to use that. Nothing in the manual tells you that, though.

Just an update: it turns out that I was not missing anything. The 8-pin connector that came with the PSU splits into two 4-pin connectors., and you're supposed to use that. Nothing in the manual tells you that, though.

ah, I remember a similar caper on a build using a Thermaltake Toughpower 750W modular PSU....!

glad to hear it's sorted!

mtfbwya

i had a funny feeling about that. oh well, best of luck getting it all together. hopefully, you won't run into any other problems. :)

You know, it just occured to me that these new 780G motherboards would make terrific HTPCs on their own; no video card required.

They also appear to be very reasonably priced.

You know, it just occured to me that these new 780G motherboards would make terrific HTPCs on their own; no video card required.

They also appear to be very reasonably priced.

lolz...just occurred to you! The HTPC milieu have been excited about that for a whiles now. Im sure Iv ebeen rabbiting on about it in the news thread. :D

I use onboard video for my main HTPC... intel, would you believe... the shame of it...!! :p Shared 256, works fine at 720p. As I am limited by my smallform case which has only two exp slots(being used for dvb-t and dvb-sat tuners) onboard video is a must, alas.

mtfbwya

lolz...just occurred to you! The HTPC milieu have been excited about that for a whiles now. Im sure Iv ebeen rabbiting on about it in the news thread. :D
I concur that Astro has been raving about it in the news thread, a lot :xp:

Yeah, well, it's my fault for not paying any attention to anything that AMD is doing as of late. It's usually too damned depressing. :xp:

Yeah, well, it's my fault for not paying any attention to anything that AMD is doing as of late. It's usually too damned depressing. :xp:

I think people are starting to wrongly focus in on the brute power pissing contest.... when the CPU market is so much more than that... what % of world users want a fully decked out crysis rig?? (replete with over $1000US of GPU hardware!) ...lolz

Hence, for most users, as long as AMD can out out some competitive prices on the low to mid end stuff, then their sales will augur will. As for the server and HTPC market, AMD are deifnitely starting to look like they have a an edge.

mtfbwya

hey, real quick: i'm looking to get a new monitor so that i can finally put to rest my old 2x 17" CRT monitors (both monitors are over 10 years old). i'm looking for a widescreen monitor, probably in the 22-24" range. my main caveat is that it needs have a max resolution that can support a full 1080p resolution since i'll have my Xbox 360 hooked up to it in addition to my computer.

right now, i'm looking at the following manufacturers: Gateway, Dell, and Viewsonic. i also prefer to use Newegg, but let me know if i can get one cheaper somewhere else, too.

thanks for the help. :)

Nope, Newegg is the best place to go and I would prefer ViewSonic I've had a ViewSonic monitor for 3 years and they rock.

How much are you willing to spend? There's a pretty big jump in price from 22" to 24" and up. Bear in mind that 24"+ LCDs are able to display 1080p natively, anything lower is not going to be able to display it pixel by pixel.

well, the price isn't that much of an issue since my parents are going to pay for either all or part of it as a birthday present. i've already done some pricing, and anything under $500 should be more than reasonable.

**Edit**
i found one that i'm going to go ahead and grab. its an Acer 24" monitor from Newegg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125) its a good price for a nice monitor; so, i can't complain too much.

anyways, thanks for the help. :)

welcome to the world of HD stinger, soon you'll be wanting a bigger one with more pixels, believe me [/screenjunkie]

mtfbwya

Hmm, I would've gone for a 22" ViewSonic VX2240W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116096)

"Why?" You say?

I think going above that for a 360 is overkill as anything above 720p is upscaled anyways (there's even controversy about certain games being upscaled to 720p, making the 1080p and upscaling of an upscaled image = ouch!), and you will lose some of the sharpness in the image (some people say that it makes no difference, but if you're a psycho purist like me, it would bother you ;) )

Here's (http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-312-2827-41.html) an excellent review of that Viewsonic screen, which got the much sought after 5 star rating on LesNumeriques.com, there's even a video of it in action there...

If you must go 24" I'd get the Viewsonic VX2435WM, of which you can read the review here (http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-240-2024-41.html) (can't seem to find it on Newegg though), though it expresses my concerns about upscaling, and more!
It says that from a PC input, everything looks amazing, but from consoles or other inputs, 1080p gets upscaled (once again!!!) to 1200p, which means another loss in quality! Like I said, maybe it's not that bad, but I know it would bother me personally...

Just my two cents ;)

well, the 1080p thing isn't just for the 360. i'm going to be getting a BD drive for my computer soon anyways. having a monitor that can support full 1080p natively will be a big plus for that, too. ;)

I would rather have a projector that I could use to change the size of the screen...
perfect for gaming! :D

I would rather have a projector that I could use to change the size of the screen...
perfect for gaming! :D

I have one. projectors are ok for movies and some types of games.... the image just isnt bright or pristine enough for games where you have alot of detail on screen. Not to mention that a decent 1080p projector will kick the bejesus out of your bank balance :D

@negsun. dont mistake a a gfx cards straining for upscaling ;) Some 360 and ps3 are capable of true 1080, the rest 720. They still look cool on a monitor simply because images are non interlaces, as opposed to your run of the mill TV ;)

Stingers monitor is future proof and blu-ray ready. The bluray+PC paradigm shift is almost here ;)

mtfbwya

@negsun. dont mistake a a gfx cards straining for upscaling ;)
I'm not, I know full well that 1920x1200 will strain your GPU way more than 1680x1050, and I'm sure stinger does too ;)

Some 360 and ps3 are capable of true 1080, the rest 720. They still look cool on a monitor simply because images are non interlaces, as opposed to your run of the mill TV ;)
I know some are capable of running movies and such at 1080p, but gaming wise, virtually nothing on the 360 has a native 1080p resolution, the 1080p a 360 puts out is an upscaling of whatever resolution that game was made in, mostly 720p or under...Hence the loss of quality I was talking about ;)

I have one. projectors are ok for movies and some types of games.... the image just isnt bright or pristine enough for games where you have alot of detail on screen. Not to mention that a decent 1080p projector will kick the bejesus out of your bank balance :D

@negsun. dont mistake a a gfx cards straining for upscaling ;) Some 360 and ps3 are capable of true 1080, the rest 720. They still look cool on a monitor simply because images are non interlaces, as opposed to your run of the mill TV ;)

Stingers monitor is future proof and blu-ray ready. The bluray+PC paradigm shift is almost here ;)

mtfbwya

you should get one of those super bright projectors that you can see with a lot of lights on, my church has one of those, it's freakin' bright, it gives new meaning to "Blinde by the light" ;)

Negsun, the quality loss you should be thinking about more is when your GPU drops frames, or simply cant draw them quick enough :) The quality of our kit improves rather than goes backwards...many games I had trouble running at full spec with my 7950GX2 get murdered on 1080p(and beyond) on my measly 8800GTS.

In one year, simply because of BR drives alone, having a 1080+ display is going to be run of the mill. PC gamers always look onwards and upwards.... so how could they ever say no to 1080+ display :D

M@RS >> are you kidding ?? I do custom home theater installations, I know my projectors undies out! ;) Unless you belong to a super rich church, that feels ok at squandering $50,000 on a theatre grade HD digital projector, you'll find most standard projectors clock in at 2000-3000 ANSI Lumens. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumens) I have no need for a 3000+ lumen device in my modest home theater/projection room ;)

Even with one of those, you can never have the sharpness that you get when you have your eyes peering at some tiny detail on an LCD/OLED display some 30cms from your face :)

mfbwya

This is the 4850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127370) I'm looking at getting. The one thing I don't like about the 4800's is how hot they run. I've been looking for a dual slot 4850 that would vent air to the outside of the case like the 4870 does (per Q's recommendation) but haven't found any of those around and this looks like the closest I can come to an OEM over-cooled solution. If anybody has any better suggestions I'm open to hearing them. :)

On another note, I guess it's an expansion card design standard but I think it counterintuitive that single slot graphics cards have the cooling fan mounted so that it points down instead of up in a tower case. Heat rises right?

On another note, I guess it's an expansion card design standard but I think it counterintuitive that single slot graphics cards have the cooling fan mounted so that it points down instead of up in a tower case. Heat rises right?
That's why it's important to have good airflow in your case, at least one intake at the front and one exhaust at the back is a must...

The GPU you've linked to looks like it's got a Zalman VGA cooler on it, which is like the Mecca of VGA coolers for most PC enthusiasts (before liquid cooling that is), so I'd say it's very adequate, as long as all the hot air gets extracted from your case properly...

i'm still waiting for Sapphire to put out a 4850 with one of their Atomic coolers on it. those things did an incredible job with the 3800 series, and they should do a good job with keeping the 4800 series running cool.

i'm still waiting for Sapphire to put out a 4850 with one of their Atomic coolers on it. those things did an incredible job with the 3800 series, and they should do a good job with keeping the 4800 series running cool.

In the meantime stinger > why dont you and your 8800GTS join our folding team. The 8800GTS does some phenomenal work once CUDA drivers are installed.

mtfbwya

i'm still waiting for Sapphire to put out a 4850 with one of their Atomic coolers on it. those things did an incredible job with the 3800 series, and they should do a good job with keeping the 4800 series running cool.
Is that the vapor cooled ones aye?

i'm still waiting for Sapphire to put out a 4850 with one of their Atomic coolers on it. those things did an incredible job with the 3800 series, and they should do a good job with keeping the 4800 series running cool.

Is that the vapor cooled ones aye?
Very interesting. Not having purchased an ATI/AMD product in quite some time I haven't paid much attention to Sapphire and this Vapor Chamber Cooling technology appears to be quite effective. Looks like Sapphire has put out a Toxic version of the HD 4850 (Zalman cooler) but so far no Atomic versions of HD 4800 series GPU's. Also checked Sapphire's forums but no indication that an Atomic 4800 is on its way. Maybe I can wait for another month to see if something comes out but I'm really starting to feel the need for a new graphics card (games, video editing, folding@home) so I don't know if my patience will last that long. :D

In the meantime stinger > why dont you and your 8800GTS join our folding team. The 8800GTS does some phenomenal work once CUDA drivers are installed.

mtfbwyaactually, its a Radeon 2900 Pro, if you remember correctly. ;)

and, yes, i'm planning on joining the LF team. right now, though, i'm currently undergoing a maintenance cycle (driver updates, HD defrag, antivirus upgrade, etc), so its probably going to be a couple of days before i get everything going. if its any consolation, i've downloaded the installation files already. ;)

@ Char Ell - i would be surprised if Sapphire didn't come up with an Atomic product for the 4800 series, but that's not to say that a lack of one wouldn't catch me off guard, neither. :)

lolz..stinger I couldve sworn you had a 8800GTS... ah well ;) anyway, for folding you may just want to run the standard, console or GPU client. If you want to be a points mogul... on your setup you could get A GPU client going for your 2900 and at least one cpu core with a console client. DONT mix to gui clients together ;)

I'd be extremely interested to see what the 4870 does with FAH. I was a bit dissapointed with the HD3450 folding prowess...

mtfbwya

The HD4000 series fares no better compared to the nVidia client because atm F@H attributes more points to nVidia hardware than Ati, because Ati's been doing this for a while, but nVidia just jumped on the bandwagon last month or so...

there's a bit mere to it than that negsun. Nvidia Gpus are faster at folding... even folding project designer said so source (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/713/1/)

The 3450 256 isnt exactly a bottom barrel card, yet it folds 100 times slower than the 8800gts. From all i've read on it, The CUDA functionality is the key difference. Of course, it is probably the only thing CUDA is good for ATM :p

mtfbwya