All of the three Jedi categories come from the same place: Force Sensitives. Some start as a Jedi and fall into darkness, others find their inner balance and walk a fine line in between and other simply follow the teaching and ally themselves with the light. The Darkness and Light struggle in a never ending battle, while the Gray don't ally themselves with either side and only look for themselves while chaos erupts around them, letting the other two sides destroy each other. My question is, who's right? From their point of view, the Jedi believe the Sith to be a disease that needs to be wiped out for the sake of the galaxy, while he Sith believe that the Force is an instrument to be used by the strong to rule over the weak, and despise the Jedi for ruining their plans and being "blind" to their true potential; and at the end of it all, the Gray don't walk in either territory, for they believe that Force Sensitives should not decide the fates of millions of other beings and endangering everything with their actions. SO I ask you, who is right and why?
Eh, all the grays I've seen seem to be jerks that begrudgingly choose to be alright most of the time. If they were how you described I would go with them but for now I'll have to go with Jedi.
I'd be a Grey Jedi. There isn't too many of them and they're usually my favourite characters in Star Wars (Qui-Gon Jinn, Kyle Katarn). Jedi would be second choice though.
Lightside ftw. :p
Btw. I am still not sure how "starwarsy" the idea of grey jedi is. The films seem to suggest (and Lucas has stated so I believe), that there is only a light and a dark side, and the Force adept has to make his choice.
Of course you could say that grey jedi are the Force users that follow the path of the light, but not necessarily the guidance of the jedi council (e.g. Jolee Bindo, Qui-Gon Jinn and Kyle Katarn), but it seems that someone who truly balances his selfish and benevolent deeds does not exist in the "classic" SW.
Light side. In any and every possible scenario, they seem to win.
I favor Jedi but on who's right...
Nobody's right and everybody's right. Simple as that.
I go with the Jedi.
At least they have the "somewhat" right intentions. They are trying to protect the millions of innocents where the Sith want to rule over them
The Grey Jedi. It seems to me that they don't really care all that much, and that just seems to me a little on the dark side-ish of thinking.
Most of the Gray Jedi stuff is from the novels and games, so is not very popular as the other two sides. I read in wikipedia that a book about Gray Jedi was going to be released next year, anybody know anything about that??
I would be Sith, I believe in the Strong should rule thing … But I am more like a Uthar Wynn type … a more calm type but powerful :D
I wouldn't say Sith, but i'd have to go with a Dark Jedi, not necessarily evil but yet not constrained by the narrow minded confines and opinions of the Jedi Order (atleast the old order anyway) - therefore an individual freer to make more choices without the daily worryings and struggles of controlling emotions. Besides, to become a true master of the force one must study both sides of the force and not just the path of light or just the path of dark, like Darth Revan who embraced the dark side so that he might stand a chance against the True Sith Empire (in the viewpoint of Kreia that is). This would make Revan a fallen Jedi yes but no Sith as he conquered for the greater good of the galaxy and not for personal ambition, defining the key difference between himself and Malak who had all the traits of a classic Sith Lord.
Therefore in relation to the poll, the closest thing to this would be a Grey Jedi, so i'll vote for that.
Has to be Dark Jedi.
If you are granted unlimited power, do you really think you aren't going to get corrupted? Nah. In that case, they are right, you are granted that power, you might as well use it to enslave countless millions. The Jedi and the Gray Jedi know that too, but they are using their powers to get people on the path they think is the correct path (which, ironically enough, also happens to be enslavement, even if it is "enlighted"). It doesn't matter who is good or evil, but who is right and wrong, and the Sith are right in that Force Users do in fact control the galaxy and are superior to non-Force Users.
The question is not who I support, but who is right. If it was "who I support", I might as well align myself with Gray, because they look like good slackers who can do whatever they want, and oppress/save how they desire.
So basically, Gray Jedi are stronger for knowing both Dark and Light sides of the force?
I thought Gray Jedi were former Jedi who did not obey the order, but didn't fall to the darkside
So basically, Gray Jedi are stronger for knowing both Dark and Light sides of the force?
I thought Gray Jedi were former Jedi who did not obey the order, but didn't fall to the darkside
There are TOO MANY definitions of Gray Jedi.
There is the Gray Jedi that are former Jedi still on the LS according to that Gray Jedi Robe in TSL.
There is the Gray Jedi in the works of True_Avery which calls Gray Jedi the most powerful since they embrace Both Good and Evil.
There is the Gray Jedi I see as the person who is fully in the Gray by becoming psyhotic/insane and doing both good and evil deeds (helping out old lady, then kicking her to death). You know, on second thought, maybe I shouldn't really become a Gray Jedi, I should just stick to being Dark Jedi, who do good deeds, but only because he wants to do good deeds.
There are Gray Jedi who are really just Dark Jedi in denial (since they seek to use the Dark Side), according to Prime.
And there are countless others in post-production.
Hm...maybe I should start a poll about these definitions...
It depends... Grey Jedi's can be Sith or Dark Jedi's that left the dark side but doesn’t want to join the Jedi’s.... Not all know both dark and light...
Exiles maybe? I always believed that the Exile was a Gray Jedi, I didn't like either ending of TSL because it didn't feel right somehow.
If you are granted unlimited power, do you really think you aren't going to get corrupted? Nah.Depends on the person or their own ambitions, a Dark Jedi is not a Sith per say and so do have a balance of good somewhere in them; it's like the old argument as to whether Anakin Skywalker was ever a Sith or merely a fallen/dark Jedi; since he eventually saved his son Luke from Palpatine, undoubtebly a Sith Lord, the good in Anakin still came through in the end to fulfill Anakin's destiny as the chosen one whom would destroy the sith and bring balance to the force; only the Sith use their power for personal ambition whereas a Dark Jedi use both sides of the force in different ways and not necessarily for evil. An example of this would be Mara Jade, the Emperor's Hand. Certainly trained in the dark arts of the force Mara Jade used these dark abilities coldly and efficiently as an assassin for the empire but was never a Sith such as her master Palpatine. Like Anakin, Mara would eventually turn from the dark path when Luke Skywalker "redeems" her and she becomes Luke's wife, therefore i would categorize Mara Jade as a sort of "Grey Jedi of the Dark Side", a Grey Jedi whom has been taught in the dark side of the force.
So basically, Gray Jedi are stronger for knowing both Dark and Light sides of the force?
I thought Gray Jedi were former Jedi who did not obey the order, but didn't fall to the darksideGrey Jedi are somewhat a mysterious group as they are not necessarily Jedi or have ever been part of a Jedi Order, but are force practicers that don't follow the confines of the Jedi Order. A strong example of these Grey Jedi would be the Imperial Jedi of the new Galactic Empire under the emperor Roan Fel, such as Sigel Dare or Antares Draco. The New Jedi Order saw these Jedi as "Grey Jedi" as they served an emperor and not for the good and will of the force and thus didn't fit in to the Jedi ideals of a typical light-sided force user.
Within Kotor and TSL examples of Grey Jedi would be Kreia (before emerging once again as Traya) and Jolee Bindo.
So basically, Gray Jedi are stronger for knowing both Dark and Light sides of the force?
Seems more like a Jack of All Trades situation where they are familiar with both sides but aren't particularly strong in either of them, since they embrace the power of neither side.
Sort or like a multiclassed character in an RPG... you are half-arsed at two things rather than specialized in one. :)
Well, technically one is most powerful when archieveing perfect harmony between Light And Dark. I think Jacen pulled it off once, but it seems to be an extremely draining effort. Then again few have obtained such a state and I doubt anyone could master it.
THAT ASIDE.
While not as powerful as either pure LS or pure DS.
GRAY JEDI WINS AT LIFE.
They are not so stuck up in personal ideal, nor are they totally focused on personal power. BUT they are much less distanced from the mundanes, and more approachable. This means they are easier to make friends, understand the REAL WORLD things happening at the life of others. Oh and they make more friends too. Friends, and not underlings, fanboys, admirers, co-schemers, unwilling-allies, subjects...
GAY JEDI WINS AT LIFE.
you mean ... Gray Jedi
Well, technically one is most powerful when archieveing perfect harmony between Light And Dark. I think Jacen pulled it off once, but it seems to be an extremely draining effort. Then again few have obtained such a state and I doubt anyone could master it.
Isn't that called being attuned completely with "Ashla" or the Light Side of the Force? I think it's called Oneness... And also that it's a Light Side trait... meaning that knowledge of the Dark-Side would be unnecisary. Dark-siders have that similar trait but it's more like a oneness with their rage or passions.
As for Taoism... :lol: "The Way" or Dao, IS perfect harmony between the dark and light.
A somewhat Light-Side leaning Gray Jedi is probably the strongest type.
Then again... all this is irrelevant compared to how strong the individual is in the Force.
I 'd be a Gray Jedi. I would be a peacekeeper, yet hungry for power.
So kinda like an ex-Sith? I could never picture a Sith leaving its order behind
Well, Jedi and Sith don't destroy each other, it's the Sith that seek to anihilate all Jedis. And a Jedi ultimate goal consist on bringing balance to the Force, whatever that means. Meanwhile Gray Jedi finish tending to one side or another. Remenber Joley?
Who would forget about t4ht gramps!
Well, Jedi and Sith don't destroy each other, it's the Sith that seek to anihilate all Jedis. And a Jedi ultimate goal consist on bringing balance to the Force, whatever that means. Meanwhile Gray Jedi finish tending to one side or another. Remenber Joley?
it's true ... ohh and Bienvenu au forum
So kinda like an ex-Sith? I could never picture a Sith leaving its order behind
Why not? If a Jedi left their Order to go follow Revan, why can't a Sith leave their order to go follow a cause of their own.
I said I could not picture it, not that it wouldn't happen. But why would a Sith leave its Order or Master?
I said I could not picture it, not that it wouldn't happen. But why would a Sith leave its Order or Master?
Maybe they just didn't agree with something. Like the Lost 20 (
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_Twenty) who left the Jedi, maybe there was "a lost 20" who left the Sith?
Maybe they just didn't agree with something. Like the Lost 20 (
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_Twenty) who left the Jedi, maybe there was "a lost 20" who left the Sith?
Strange, most have fall to the Dark side and become Sith’s.
So kinda like an ex-Sith? I could never picture a Sith leaving its order behind
Here is small list of possible reasons:
1)Maybe you are a Sith and you return to the light and don’t want to join the Jedi order.
2)You don’t like you’re master or you think you’re way too powerful to fallow you’re Sith master or the Sith council and for that you get expelled.(Sith case, killed)
3)Possibly you don’t like the way of thinking of Sith and you leave and become a Dark Jedi or Gray Jedi if you found light.
Even though I hate taking the easy way out and not going for either extreme, I think Jedi and Sith both overdo it a lot in their beliefs (I don't think i have to give examples). Therefor Iґd go for gray.
How is being a gray jedi taking the easy way out?
All the peer pressure is to join the Jedi/Sith.
Gray Jedi don't share in the political power of the other two groups.
Gray Jedi don't have the sheer number or power of force using allies to call on in times of danger and/or trouble.
How is being a gray jedi taking the easy way out?
Morality.
"You see Czerka Corporation trying to take over Telos! What do you do?"
Jedi: "Czerka helped out the Sith during the Jedi Civil War! They are corporations, and corporations are greedy people! I have to attack them, even though they may actually be intelligent people who could actually rebuild Telos! Because if I help Czerka, I'll follow the Dark Side!"
Sith: "Czerka helped out the Sith during the Jedi Civil War! They are corporations, and corporations are greedy people! I have to help them because they are evil, otherwise I'd be helping out those Goody Two-Shoes...even though those people got lots of posions and stimulants, could easily reconnect me back to the Force, and overall provide me with political cover to do other evil deeds. Becuase if I help them out, I'll follow the Light Side, and lose my powers!"
Gray: "Hm. Czerka offers me money, the other side offers me the Force. I could choose either side and not have to worry about wheter I gain or lose Light/Dark Side Points! Wow! This is awesome!"
See? Easy way out. Gray Side can choose whatever side can help them out in the long term, while the Jedi/Sith cannot choose and have to follow their code.
You can actually do that in the game? I could only help one side.
With the "droid escort" mission I could only give it to one side (Czerka or Ithorians) so I've never been able to please both sides
I meant, in the broader sense, you have to help only the Light Side if you are a Jedi or the Dark Side if you are Sith. If you are a Gray Jedi, you can help the LS and then the DS. So, while you do have to choose between Czerka and the other people...well, at least you can choose rather than being compelled to help only one side. So if you want to help out Czerka today, that's fine. Then later, you can help out the LS faction on another planet.
...altough there was a bug that allowed you to work both factions...and end up making BOTH SIDES hate you. :D
GAY JEDI WINS AT LIFE.
You got that right. *Winks at you from across the bar*
Seriously though, gray Jedi seem to have the best philosophy (Jolee and Qui-Gon). It's how you use the powers that counts. Jolee has some pretty wise and thoughtful explanations, like the love conversation and the dialog he has with Bastila.
...altough there was a bug that allowed you to work both factions...and end up making BOTH SIDES hate you. :DWow i never knew that, any ideas on how to implement theis "bug", i'd love to try it! :D
Is there an example of a "gray" Jedi that hasn't fallen to the dark side?
Is there an example of a "gray" Jedi that hasn't fallen to the dark side?Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)
Wow i never knew that, any ideas on how to implement theis "bug", i'd love to try it!
Unsure really. All I remember was that it was in the Obisidan forums. But after making both sides hate you, you can (possibly) still just access the Ship that will take you down to Telos, because you may have already killed off the Exchange Leader and helped out at least one of the factions, so essentially it's supposed to not be a gamekilling bug.
Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)
But he says he's not a Jedi, just a regural old Force User. :p
As much as I am lighhtsider at heart, I actually prefer the grey Jedi approach. More often than not I see things neither as black or white. I don't like killing but if given the choice for the whole greater good, I probably would. I'm not saying that I would though.
I have liked Kyle Katarn's philosophy that powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use it. I tend to think of the gifts and talents that we have in the same way.
Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)An interesting example which bring up two points.
One, the canon definition of Gray Jedi is a Jedi that does not follow the will of the Jedi Council, and essentially functions outside the Jedi Order. It does not refer to a Jedi who attempts to use the dark side of the Force and not be corrupted (although many people use the term this way). Jolee was being referred to as the former, since he has a lot of philosophical differences on how the Jedi should do things. In terms of the story, Jolee does not use the dark side of the Force, although in terms of game mechanics you can use him and any other party member that way if you choose.
Secondly...
I have liked Kyle Katarn's philosophy that powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use it.I think most of us in canon debates chalk that line up to the description of gameplay mechanics in Jedi Academy. Intention doesn't have anything to do with the dark side, since the evil act is the use of it in the first place. For example, force lightning is the corruption of the natural force which is considered in and of itself an evil act by the Jedi and in the SW universe. So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.
I think most of us in canon debates chalk that line up to the description of gameplay mechanics in Jedi Academy. Intention doesn't have anything to do with the dark side, since the evil act is the use of it in the first place. For example, force lightning is the corruption of the natural force which is considered in and of itself an evil act by the Jedi and in the SW universe. So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.Good point, as DF powers can only really be seen as cruel as they inflict serious harm or death at an opponent, whether that opponent deserves it or not. However they are some powers of the DS that can be seen as grey areas such as the extremely rare power of Force Resurrection that raises people from the dead by directly influencing the midi-chlorians (an example of this use is when Cade Skywalker raises his master Wolf Sazen back from the dead). It can be seen as an act of mercy but because it demands a high use and focus of the dark side it is inherently evil as it corrupts those who use it.
Well, using Force lightning to kill an enemy isn't much worse than using a lightsaber to do it.
Wasn't Qui-Gon considered a fairly gray Jedi? He disobeyed the Council many times, and even had the skill to be on it, but he focused more on what he thought was right rather than the Council's will. Of course, he had good intentions anyway, so he didn't fall to the dark side.
Well, using Force lightning to kill an enemy isn't much worse than using a lightsaber to do it.
Wasn't Qui-Gon considered a fairly gray Jedi? He disobeyed the Council many times, and even had the skill to be on it, but he focused more on what he thought was right rather than the Council's will. Of course, he had good intentions anyway, so he didn't fall to the dark side.Well killing someone with a lightsaber is a lot better that killing someone with force lightning, as it is slower and more painful, a lightsaber can be considered as more merciful.
I think canonically Qui-Gon was classed as a Grey Jedi as the Jedi Council didn't view him as a true Jedi (the reasonings why he never progressed from Jedi Knight to Jedi Master) because of his unorthadox views and disobediance to the council, arguably having similar traits and qualities to a future Anakin Skywalker.
So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.
How then can you explain away Destroy Droid, a LS Force Power that has the main goal of harming droids. Not only is it LS according to the KOTOR series, but it is also said to be LS in that Droid's Essential Guide as well, discovered during the Great Droid Revolution by LS Jedi.
Why is this a LS power, and not DS? All it does is destroy Droids, and doesn't droids feel pain?
How then can you explain away Destroy Droid, a LS Force Power that has the main goal of harming droids. Not only is it LS according to the KOTOR series, but it is also said to be LS in that Droid's Essential Guide as well, discovered during the Great Droid Revolution by LS Jedi.
Why is this a LS power, and not DS? All it does is destroy Droids, and doesn't droids feel pain?
Droids doesn't seem to be included in "others" in the Star Wars universe, being considered objects and possessions to buy, sell, dispose of and generally do with as you see fit.
Thus the "Destroy Droid" power would at most be useful for destruction of property such as droids and security systems like turrets, cameras or other electronics. Apparently it's a lightside act to smash up things, as long as it doesn't harm anyone physically. :p
I do find the LS classification of Destroy Droid to be a bit peculiar as well, seems like a neutral/utility power like Push/Telekinesis. I suppose you could consider overloading an electrical system to be a more brute force variant of the "mind trick" powers used against living beings.
And then there's emerald lightning or electric judgement or whatever it was called, which was essentially the same as lightning, except that it drew from light energy.
I vote somewhere between Gray Jedi and Jedi.
Let me repost something that got deleted:
So, this is how it goes. The Sith are all like "hellz yeah, we dominate all y'all, got that?!". Then, the Jedi are all like "Yo, you can't go pushin' us around like that! Why ya gotta be frontin', son?" The Jedi roll out, sending a couple of knights to kill a Sith Lord, then the Sith are like "d00d, I could be t3h Dark Lord!" and they all kill each other. The Jedi are then like "OMG, we just totally beat them! Girl power!", then Yoda says "A shameful victory, it was."
The whole time, the gray Jedi are hiding in the trees, and they're like "WTF, mate? What's going on?" And the whole thing is disappointing, really.
In other words, the Jedi take out a prime factor in the Sith (i.e. Nomi stripping Ulic of the Force, Revan killing Malak), and the Sith end up destroying themselves in a power struggle. The whole time, the gray Jedi are helping when they can, but they don't follow the Order. In summary, the Sith are a bunch of back-stabbing idiots, the Jedi are too afraid to take the Sith on their own, and the gray Jedi are loners (usually) who have good intentions, but don't let the Council hold them back.