I want to preface my complaint with the admission that TSL does Dark Side better than KotOR. In KotOR, where the Dark Side choices consist of demanding compensation for deeds done, threatening, and killing those who turn you down, DS acts in TSL are often more subtle, such as telling others to give into their despair or undermining the local "good" faction.

But in trying to role-play a DS character, I've found the general story-based dialogue options to be insufficient compared to the LS options, which often provide a large range of "good" opinions (the deep conversations with Atris actually provide a remarkable range for which you can achieve LS points).

We get:
LS - The Jedi Council was right, the War was a mistake.
LS - The Jedi Council was wrong, and I don't need to defend myself for protecting innocent lives.
Neutral - I don't care much about the Jedi Council one way or another, but if the Sith attack me I will defend myself.
DS - If I come across the remaining Jedi Council members I'll leave them lying in a pool of blood!!!

There aren't nearly enough Dark Side dialogue options within the story-based dialogue trees that offer a more realistic, moderately evil approach. For example, where's the more realistic "If the Sith destroy the remaining Council, then it's no less than they deserve" option? There aren't enough 'evily indifferent' or 'good = foolish' dialogue options IMO.

Anyway...

What's your favorite Dark Side act or strand of conversation in the series?

Incidentally, I actually think that KotOR, despite doing it overall worse than TSL, actually has the best DS conversation in the series. Bastila's attempt to turn you to the Dark Side at the top of the Rakatan temple is so icily logical that I actually agree with her to the extent that the standard "I will follow the Jedi Council" LS options in that conversation seem so stupid to me.

As for TSL, I like the "Sith Lords'" attempts to convert (usually) Atton in Freedon Nadd's temple. Also, sending, I believe it is Aida, on to meet her husband in the intergalactic reunification mission on Nar Shaddaa while the thugs still patrol the entrance to the Quad is deviously amusing to me despite being rather short and simple. There's little "better" evil than giving someone ultimate hope and happiness only to snuff it out. >)

I agree. In fact the Dark Side on TSL is so good, I can't usually play it, because I feel guilty afterwards, while on KOTOR, I didn't really care.

***SPOILERS AHEAD***

KotOR is more conservative on the old good vs evil fight than TSL. As always, we see the darkside forming because of hunger for power, as for TSL we can see some different motivations, especially for Kreia (who's, for me, more a darsided person than grey).

Despite the thug way of evil on the first Kotor, there are moments were we can be real evil, like incitating the two families on a feud at Dantooine to kill each others sons and proceeding to a onslaught of both families with no survivors. On Kashyyyk, where it really does seem so wrong to kill Freyr, Zaalbar's father and aid Chuundar enslave his own people. It's also intriguing how can that Kandon (Personal assistant to Brejik, the Black Vulkar leader on Taris) pervert the mind of Mission, turning her on Gadon Thek, from the Hidden Beks.

But it's at the end of the game, after the revelation, where the character can really show how evil he/she is, by abandoning Carth, killing Jolee and Juhani, and by twist Zaalbar's mind and make him kill Mission. Overrall, Both games have some neat(?) DS acts.

My biggest complaint is that dark side = thuggish bully in these games. Where are the clever manipulations?

My biggest complaint is that dark side = thuggish bully in these games. Where are the clever manipulations?

Exchange Thugs:
"Listen, I know for a fact that you want to kill this guy...but actually, don't. You see, you need money, and that guy has no money. ...So just sell him on the slave market. That should be all."
Thugs: "Good idea. Hey, what's your name?"
"Exile."
Thugs: "Okay, we'll recommend you to the Exchange, they would like to have people like you."

The Psychological War Between Refugees and Exchange:
Refugee Leader: "We will not surrender!"
Exile does a lot of barbaric actions, breaking the refugees.
Refugee Leader: "Alright, alright, we surrender.

Vaklu's Troopers Assaulting Reporters:
"Hey! Don't kill this guy here!"
Vaklu Troopers: "Of course we should! This guy is a spy!"
"I mean, don't kill this guy here. There might be witnesses. Just take him over to the barracks where he can 'disapper'."
Vaklu Troopers: "Oh. Duh. Thanks for telling us."

Still, more manlipuative actions, which are better than these ones, would be nice. I really would wanted to rat out the Republic spy on the Catiana to Vaklu troopers, for instance.

I agree. In fact the Dark Side on TSL is so good, I can't usually play it, because I feel guilty afterwards, while on KOTOR, I didn't really care.

For me it's the other way around. In TSL I'm just a bad guy who kills innocent people.

In Kotor however, I'm forced to kill Mission and Jolee! Now that really hurts..killing characters who have been with you for so long. Characters you know better than the random street guy.
How am I suppoed to kill some of my favourite party members? DS in K1 is unplayable!

I think the dark side system sucks a little.

1) being a sith doesn't mean having to GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to kill innocents. A Sith and a bratty thug are two seperate things entirely. A Sith seeks power over money.

2) when talking to your friends, you can tell that you are a good guy pretending to be evil by the responses and dialogue options... also, you pretty much HAVE to be unrealistically nice or nasty to them to get any where with them

3) you cannot execute hand maiden for her failure, even if you did have a love affair with her

4) you can tell the whole game is ridged and is really just a good guy playing with evil dialogue options... not that I mind overly because I prefer going the light path and it is better this way than the opposite.

I agree with that last point - no matter what, there's always something light-sided about you. Where is the option to kill your least favourite party members? Or to recolor your ship red and black? And why, in The Sith Lords, do your party members still speak in the same way as they did when they were good even though they are both obviously bats**t insane and terribly evil? The fact that Atton seems concerned that the Exile has turned gray when he is the same color plus orange eyes unnerves me. And he speaks so... smoothly. His voice should have become low and dark by now.