Just a couple things.
You're right. I did imply that.
Thank you very much. I'd like it if you didn't imply, because I don't.
Sarcastic? How is not putting a cloak on so that the armor doesn't look bad sarcastic?
Because it is the same as using this logic:
"Dude, there are several armors that don't work, the whole armor is just white, and it doesn't have any icon but a white square!"
"Well don't wear that armor, then."
You just completely side-stepped the issue without giving any solution to the problem.
Also, you imply automatically that it might look horrible very often. However, whether it looks horrible or not is based on opinion, not fact.
Hmm... Actually, I'd have to say that it is a fact that red Bonadon armor would look horrible with a cloak. :) I could name a few others, too, and I don't think that many would argue that the horror isn't fact.
But besides that, it would look stupid or unrealistic on some other armors, like ZS/JS armor- or on something like Atton's ribbed jacket, or Mira's ballistic mesh jacket. And that is a problem I have with it: If this happens, I sincerely doubt the devs are going to make this an option for those I just mentioned.
Note that this is my interpretation of your words. Perhaps you did it without thinking about it, but I do believe that was the purpose of those arguments.
I was not intending to "prey on feelings", or try and get you into a "jihad." I was just suggesting some things I thought might be issues.
As far as I know, core gameplay and key parts are pretty close in meaning.
Obviously I did not use the right choice of words (Haven't I said that before?). It must be me using not-so-well-chosen words and phrases that miscommunicate what I am trying to say. I concede, clothing is not really a "key part." If you notice one of my later posts, I used a different word for it. I was just trying to say that it is a element used often in KOTOR.
How does that not imply negative feelings towards change?
You seem to not understand that there is a another view other than "Dude! All change is bad!" and "Dude! All change is good!"
It is not that it changes something- it is about what it changes.
I'd like to thank Hai Wan for summarizing the issues at hand.
I don't believe it. I actually agree with you, for about the first time in this thread. :)
I could go through more, but really don't want to type any more long posts; not to mention that I feel like I'm not really getting anywhere. This might not even be in the game, and we're not in charge of deciding whether it's put in, so... Sometimes I just wonder if there is a point to this. So, whatever.
Just on a closing note, developer is spelled with one p. :D
Because it is the same as using this logic:
"Dude, there are several armors that don't work, the whole armor is just white, and it doesn't have any icon but a white square!"
"Well don't wear that armor, then."
You just completely side-stepped the issue without giving any solution to the problem.
No, I didn't side-step anything. You're going to find a lot of armor ugly. Don't wear them that's all. How do you expect everyone to like every armor piece?
For example, I hate how most armors look on Mira so I use her regular jacket, no matter how crappy it is compared to some medium armors.
The same goes for Atton.
I just didn't use the armors.
Also, if the cloak adds no bonuses, what does it actually matter if you wear one or not? It becomes a nice aesthetic bonus.
Hmm... Actually, I'd have to say that it is a fact that red Bonadon armor would look horrible with a cloak. :)
I think it's a general consensus that the armor alone looks horrible. Period. Thus the developer do not design armors that fits everyone's taste.
But besides that, it would look stupid or unrealistic on some other armors, like ZS/JS armor- or on something like Atton's ribbed jacket, or Mira's ballistic mesh jacket. And that is a problem I have with it: If this happens, I sincerely doubt the devs are going to make this an option for those I just mentioned.
Indeed it would not look good on some armors. However, that is far from an issue to not include such an option. Thus why it's called customization. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.
I was not intending to "prey on feelings", or try and get you into a "jihad." I was just suggesting some things I thought might be issues.
Well, look for other actual issues. In a debate, you might get rammed into for coming up with wrong issues.
Obviously I did not use the right choice of words (Haven't I said that before?). It must be me using not-so-well-chosen words and phrases that miscommunicate what I am trying to say. I concede, clothing is not really a "key part." If you notice one of my later posts, I used a different word for it. I was just trying to say that it is a element used often in KOTOR.
True enough. So changing it will change the feel of KotOR how then?
You seem to not understand that there is a another view other than "Dude! All change is bad!" and "Dude! All change is good!"
It is not that it changes something- it is about what it changes.
True enough, if you quote that alone, it sounds like that.
However, it seems you like to quote out of context.
Full quote:
How does that not imply negative feelings towards change? In how would it change the feeling of KotOR? Did the D20 system suddenly crumble and the story got screwed because one armor slot was added? Does adding a cloak remove lightsabers?
It is really about one particular change. The wording was not the clearest I admit, but I think that reading the rest of the paragraph and the quote posted above said paragraph should lead one to conclude that I was talk about change on the subject at hand.
This might lead to a misunderstanding:
Then you came up with the key parts (which is pretty much core gameplay) argument so that it could stir up an anti-change sentiment.
However, this is on another subject. Perhaps there was some confusion.
I could go through more, but really don't want to type any more long posts; not to mention that I feel like I'm not really getting anywhere.
No debate here will ever take us anywhere.
This might not even be in the game, and we're not in charge of deciding whether it's put in, so... Sometimes I just wonder if there is a point to this. So, whatever.
There is no point to anything we post or do on these forums. Whenever there's a debate going, we just keep going for the sake of it.
And I personally enjoy a good fight once in a while :)
Just on a closing note, developer is spelled with one p. :D
Thanks for the tip ;) Then again, for a french speaking guy, my spelling isn't too.
@RQD
Complexity: Why can't it be made in a way that can be as complex as you want it?
You don't have to put a cloak over armor if you don't want the effects of balancing them. You don't have to equip upgrades to every available spot if you don't want to spend the time sorting through them.
You've said that story should be focused on more then item management. Do you want more planets than TSL had, do you want more NPCs than TSL had, do you want more quests than TSL had, do you want more detail to the plot than TSL had?
Those are some of the most important parts of the game, I want them taken to the next level, I also expect the same for item management and character customization.
"Dude...white armor"
That does not apply as it is a problem with the actual item files or lack thereof, it in no way applies to personal taste (which is the only meaning I can translate from your I would puke if Carth wore that comment).
Do you want a solution to programming bugs that haven't happened yet, or an effeminate guy to review all item possibilities and make sure you can't be seen in anything that would affect your social status??? (you could simply hire him to play with you and make sure that you don't wear anything hideous)
I for one think it would look good on mira's jacket, but that's just my opinion, carrying the same weight as your opinion, and both opinions become choices in their own item select screen with absolutely no impact on the other.
Some people just have different tastes, I'm pretty sure most high class clothing manufacturers would imitate your puking after seeing what I wear:D
@Hai Wan, You were close, Actually all I want is for KIII to completely revolutionize the next and subsequent generations of gaming and entertainment, and be the game that all others are weighed against for the next 30 years:)
@LIAYD, It did come of as sarcastic, but no less true;) If you don't like the Ubese Environmental suit then don't wear it:lol:
I do disagree with you, to a certain extent, on the cloak though, I think it still needs it's own bonuses as a unique item class.
If a system of layers is used, then each part must be able to be swapped while retaining it's "identity", So I can wear a a Jedi Tunic with a robe (or cloak) and then switch the tunic for armor while still wearing the robe and retaining some small attributes from it, and then get rid of the armor completely and and wear the cloak over basic clothing while still getting effective use out of the cloak's attributes.
There is nothing wrong with adding aesthetic only cloaks and items in addition to statistic based versions though:)
I guess we still have a discussion over this. The Jal Shay armour has a cloak and it doesn't restrict Force powers, good for someone who wants extra protect. Butt ugly to look at. I was thinking that the look could be improved on. The textures could be rearranged to look more like samuraii armour which I still think the devs were attempting at. On the other hand, upgradeable robes are cool too and they could add the option to have the hood up or down.
If they use seperate models for layers, that would make "hoodies" simpler, you could just make animations for the cloak instead of using an "up" and "down" model.
I really see this whole thing as greater customization/choice versus increased administration/management. I like the idea of having the ability to add a cloak/cape as long as I don't have to worry about cape upgrades or something like that. Because knowing me I'll be trying all the different upgrades I could to see what cape upgrades work best with what armor upgrades and yet getting irritated with myself that I stopped playing the game to figure that out. Yeah, strange. I know. :giveup:
And I personally enjoy a good fight once in a while :) ***remembers Revan's real class debate***
Really? I would have never guessed... ;)
You were close, Actually all I want is for KIII to completely revolutionize the next and subsequent generations of gaming and entertainment, and be the game that all others are weighed against for the next 30 yearsYeah, RJM, I can see now how you would have such grand aspirations. My bad. Should I go back up and edit my post? :xp:
So Hai Wan would you stand with the idea that armour with a cloak is an option to see? Personally this whole discussion has me depressed over the technically and the rules of RPG. Still I say stick with what we got in TSL just try not to make it such an eyesore.
So Hai Wan would you stand with the idea that armour with a cloak is an option to see? I believe I've made it abundantly clear in this thread that I like the light armor with a Jedi cloak concept, right? ;)
Personally this whole discussion has me depressed over the technically and the rules of RPG. Still I say stick with what we got in TSL just try not to make it such an eyesore.I hope you don't get too depressed over it. Really, because it's not worth it. It's just a bunch of us passionate KotOR fans debating the merits of mixing armor and clothing and to what extent, if any, the game should allow said mixing to occur. In the end, it will be the developers who make the decision on what ends up in the game. If they think enough people want something in particular and they feel they can work it in the game without too much problem then I'm sure they'll do it. If not, then there is always modding (hopefully).
Yeah you're right. I've actually had some fun with mods that others have come up with. I can see that it is just fans being passionate about it but don't turn it into a soap :p The light armour option is a good one and maybe we may see it in KOTOR 3