Yes, but just waiting for something to happen is a decidedly boring thing to do on a web forum ;)

However IGN is reporting that according to a source close to the development team, Obsidian may not have sealed the deal yet for KOTOR 3. So this little ditty brought out the Curious George in me. How does a game developer "seal the deal" for developing a game for a game publisher like LucasArts or EA (sorry Hannibal :()? Do they invest resources in making a demo to present to LA execs? Does it involve storyboarding? Of course I'm sure it involves schmoozing, wining, dining, trips to world class golf courses, etc. You know, the usual American business fair. But I'm interested if anyone has any idea of how a game contract gets inked between publishers and developers. I'm all :ears1:

So this little ditty brought out the Curious George in me. How does a game developer "seal the deal" for developing a game for a game publisher like LucasArts or EA (sorry Hannibal :()? Do they invest resources in making a demo to present to LA execs? Does it involve storyboarding? Of course I'm sure it involves schmoozing, wining, dining, trips to world class golf courses, etc. You know, the usual American business fair. But I'm interested if anyone has any idea of how a game contract gets inked between publishers and developers. I'm all :ears1:

This is my theory:
I think it means they have started work on it because they want the contract. Lucsarts has given them the go ahead to begin with the basics and get ready to present their ideas. If Lucasarts likes what they see, they give the full go ahead and back the project, at which point it would be announced and be officially in development.

So this little ditty brought out the Curious George in me. How does a game developer "seal the deal" for developing a game for a game publisher like LucasArts or EA (sorry Hannibal :()? Do they invest resources in making a demo to present to LA execs? Does it involve storyboarding? Of course I'm sure it involves schmoozing, wining, dining, trips to world class golf courses, etc. You know, the usual American business fair. But I'm interested if anyone has any idea of how a game contract gets inked between publishers and developers. I'm all :ears1:Well, presumably it is like most third party software contacts (I am in the telecom software industry). It would usually break down something like this...

Lucasarts decides that they want to make a game. They decide that they want it to be an RPG, along with many or few other requirements. In some cases they may decide to approach a company that has experience and a reputation for doing such things (like Bioware), but most of the time several development houses will develop proposals (usually called bids). These proposals will define how much money it will require and how much time, along with a lot of other details. Likely at this point there isn't too much about the story and that sort of thing. It's more about the technical, legal, and financial stuff.

From all these proposals Lucasarts chooses the most appealing one, which in the simplest terms means getting the most for the least money and time. Lucasarts has their own budget for what they are willing to pay, and the proposals will have to fall within that. Note that the development house may be payed in a variety of ways, from flat fee to percentage of the game's revenue. That is part of the bargaining process and depends a lot on who is asking what. Bioware could probably negotiate a better deal than Obsidian, for example, since the former had a stronger reputation than the latter.

Once the winner has been selected and the contracts signed then the development begins on the game. In the case of SW Lucasarts usually provides guidelines but lets the devs come up with their own story/gameplay ideas. Then there is back and forth to make sure that the design and story fit with what Lucasarts desires or finds acceptable. Then the usual development kicks into fifth gear.

I would say here that I think Lucasarts gets criticized too much for the flaws of K2. Obsidian would have looked at Lucasarts budget requirements and made a proposal that fit within them. If they were unable to meet that proposal that is Obsidian's fault, not Lucasarts'. That being said, things can (actually, always) happen that create delays and budget increases. It just turned out that Obsidian didn't plan well enough and could not complete what they had designed with the time they had. This happens.

Yes, but just waiting for something to happen is a decidedly boring thing to do on a web forum ;)

Maybe for you but I have more fun speculating as to what might be in it. What freaked me out was how right I was in predicting what happened to Revan in TSL. Somehow I knew that Revan would disappear into the Unknown Regions because something called to Revan. Now we know it was the evil of the True Sith but it still gets me how I knew that, and that was before it came out! Must be the will of the Force :)

Yes, but just waiting for something to happen is a decidedly boring thing to do on a web forum ;)

:giggle1: Which, of course, is why we're all here speculating with fellow forumites. ;)
The little tidbits of info, useful or not, do tend to keep the hopes up.

I would say here that I think Lucasarts gets criticized too much for the flaws of K2. Obsidian would have looked at Lucasarts budget requirements and made a proposal that fit within them. If they were unable to meet that proposal that is Obsidian's fault, not Lucasarts'. That being said, things can (actually, always) happen that create delays and budget increases. It just turned out that Obsidian didn't plan well enough and could not complete what they had designed with the time they had. This happens.
I remember having a discussion with someone who was working on K2 I think it was MCA .. but I cant remember for sure. Anyway I recall them admitting Lucasarts change or release date for the x-box version wouldnt make them have to do the game quicker as they had a date to have the game done by and that was before the christmas release date.

Ie: OE were making the game to have it done on XXX XXX so LA could Q&A it and get it ready for a Feb release.
LA changes the date for the x-box version to Dec.
OE doesnt need to change the date they have to get the game done as XXX XXX is still before the Dec release date.

Im not sure if it was MCA I was talking to so dont want to get him in trouble with the public to much if it wasn't him.

Yes, but it still leaves less time for LucasArts to do proper QA. No matter which way you look at it, there is a flaw in this concept.

Yeah I agree, Feb would have been a better time line for both versions. Shovingout the x-box version two months early really didn't help them. But hey, I still consider the stuff ups as both companies fault rather then just OE or just LA.

Yeah well, of course no side is 100% guilty,just as no one can be 100% innocent ;)

In some cases they may decide to approach a company that has experience and a reputation for doing such things (like Bioware), but most of the time several development houses will develop proposals (usually called bids). These proposals will define how much money it will require and how much time, along with a lot of other details. Likely at this point there isn't too much about the story and that sort of thing. It's more about the technical, legal, and financial stuff. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, Prime. Hmmm, so it sounds to me like you think LA's decision on a developer is primarily based on reputation and financial considerations instead of actual demonstration of story writing or game design expertise. Did I interpret that right?
I would say here that I think Lucasarts gets criticized too much for the flaws of K2... It just turned out that Obsidian didn't plan well enough and could not complete what they had designed with the time they had. This happens.But hey, I still consider the stuff ups as both companies fault rather then just OE or just LA. All I really know about this is that the LucasArts press release from E3 2004 said that both Xbox and PC versions would come out in 2005 Feb. IMO, whomever decided to move the release date up to 2004 Nov. and effectively shave off about 3 months from the originally planned development timeline should shoulder most of the blame for TSL's shortcomings. Only problem is I don't know who made that decision. :giveup:

Don't think too hard. I rather not have you blow a head gasket. I think the best way is to just wait and check the tidbits coming in.

The decision to pull he date ahead of the holiday was LEC's decision.

I wouldn't get it if it was an action based kotor.

If it was Jade Empire-style action based, I'd probably keep an open mind.

If it was Jedi Academy-style action based, I'd more than likely ignore it (although if the reviews were good enough, I can't say 100% that I'd not be tempted).

I wouldn't worry about the action-based rumours too much...

Same here because as others have stated, they wouldn't change the engine or combat system because they wouldn't damage one of their cash cows.