Not too many people seemed to find it as interesting or useful.
I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.
I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.
Thank the stars. I love the concept of a hybrid RPG with the level of detail that Kotor brings. However, there will have to be another 'level up' as far as the Devs are concerned. A carbon copy of K2 simply won't cut it.
A carbon copy of K2 simply won't cut it.
That's what I think as well. Too many rules have been broken, to be repaired now.
Geez, people! They only have to type in 20 numbers.
Heh, okay, they type in the 20 numbers and do nothing else. Now, you load the game, equip a gun and a sword, and perform an attack. Your character suddenly jumps to an upright snow angel pose, shots fire from the gun, but the player doesn't move at all.
And then there's the coding involved to make the game function properly with 2 different types of weapons equipped at the same time, as it would be a new feature.
Yeah, 'typing in 20 numbers' is a huge understatement.
Yeah, 'typing in 20 numbers' is a huge understatement.
Look I know that I overexagerated and I am sorry for that. But the feature is not that bad. Besides what would it change if it's inserted; First you say that it will make people abbandon the single sabre, then you say that it will cause over empowering of single sabre wielders.. I really don't understand why can this bring so much disbalance, it will only be for looks. It would make a penalty like with two melee weapons, only bigger. That's all.
^^^^
Sorry Vlad but Mono is correct... The penalties would outweigh the usefulness of the so-called form, and in these instances, for example in PnP sessions, as a GM you could allow the player to use this form, but swiftly the player would find out that it sucks... hopefully before his characters hit-points quickly reached 0.
So why include any development time for such a thing in the game. ;)
Also...
I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.
Still a sore spot there I see...
Bioware and OE broke no rules making KOTOR and TSL, they are 'Pure' RPG's... just because the ADD Generation, "button-mashing", adrenaline junkie, console kiddies cannot seem to grasp the concept of what a 'Pure' RPG is, is unimportant! :xp:
So why include any development time for such a thing in the game. ;)
Gamers don't need to use it. And even thoug it will be amost useless, some people would want to still use it even though it would make the game seem like it is way too hard, they will just accept the fact that it is very stupid, but still hold their teeth and use it because they like it.
I know I will.
Bioware and OE broke no rules making KOTOR and TSL, they are 'Pure' RPG's...
Oh, you didn't notice that my friend.
Of course, they didn't break the rules from the point of view of the game play. BUT they broke, at least, 5 rulse concerning the story.
Let me explain:
In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.
But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:
1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.
2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.
3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.
I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.
Heh. First off, that's only 3, maybe 4, if you include the first bold part.
And, sure, they can mention the prequel character's name, especially in a case like this, where the first game's main character gets a 'standard' name after a certain point in the game. It's like if they didn't give you the option to name the character at all. The only reason they tend to stay away from naming the past characters in games like this is because the name was customizable. And the KotOR series is definitely not the only RPG series to do it, remember the old Dragon Warrior/Quest games? (New one looks pretty good.) Specifically I, II, and III. Well known, traditional RPGs. The main character of the third game, Loto/Erdrick, is mentioned throughout the other two. (Not sure about the new one.) He also has a full set of armor, complete with helmet and shield, a sword, and a seal listed as "Loto's ___" ingame. Breath of Fire is another example, with the main character, Ryu, being mentioned between games.
And by the way, I never said anything about overpowering single sabers. I gave you the technical arguement about why inserting the option would be a waste of time. This time around, I want my story first. If they make crappy models, we can fix that, at least.
Let me explain:
In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.
But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:
1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.
2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.
3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.
I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.
Is this actually true? If it is, then these "rules" for RPG are pretty damn stupid. By definition, a game can't be a "sequel" when it has pretty much zero to do with whatever came before it.
Where did you get these rules from?
Is this actually true? If it is, then these "rules" for RPG are pretty damn stupid. By definition, a game can't be a "sequel" when it has pretty much zero to do with whatever came before it.
Where did you get these rules from?
Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry. ;)
@ Vlad your so-called RPG story rules make no sense, and it would benefit you to venture back to the older venerable RPG's and giving them a shot before stating things steadfastly like you have. ;)
Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly! :rolleyes:
The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.
Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion! :xp:
And, sure, they can mention the prequel character's name, especially in a case like this, where the first game's main character gets a 'standard' name after a certain point in the game. It's like if they didn't give you the option to name the character at all. The only reason they tend to stay away from naming the past characters in games like this is because the name was customizable. And the KotOR series is definitely not the only RPG series to do it, remember the old Dragon Warrior/Quest games? (New one looks pretty good.) Specifically I, II, and III. Well known, traditional RPGs. The main character of the third game, Loto/Erdrick, is mentioned throughout the other two. (Not sure about the new one.) He also has a full set of armor, complete with helmet and shield, a sword, and a seal listed as "Loto's ___" ingame. Breath of Fire is another example, with the main character, Ryu, being mentioned between games.
Oh. :indif: Sorry, then. :doh:
Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly! :rolleyes:
Why do you say that? People do that often you know.
Take Diablo 2 for example. The thing is the most played RPG in the entire country here; The thing is older than my brother and people still play it (I don't play it because it gets boring to me after five minutes so I turn always to Jedi Academy to push my adrenaline and cheerfulness back). For the Horadric Cube they insert tons of completely useless combinations which no one uses. But yet, Blizzard still makes patches. So it's not as bad as it looks.
The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.
You can use penalties to solve that problem. You get 1/99999999999999999 chanses of hitting the opponent if you use both.
Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion! :xp:
It's not that bad. (I think)
Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry. ;)
@ Vlad your so-called RPG story rules make no sense, and it would benefit you to venture back to the older venerable RPG's and giving them a shot before stating things steadfastly like you have. ;)
Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly! :rolleyes:
The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.
Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion! :xp:
Well, I suppose that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
Really, though, it's up to the developers and what they've decided to do with the next game.
I really don't see the problem with holding a short saber and deflecting blaster shots, then firing back down the corridor at my enemies. Perhaps, I'm a jedi in training and I can't let go of my blasters just yet. If that costs me points, then so be it. If that seems unnatural to those pure sabarist, then refrain from using this option.
Perhaps this could only work at a certain distance or something. It's just an option for the player. If you don't want the penalties, then, by all means, don't use this option. But, why limit me on my choices?
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, everyone has their own opinions.
It doesn't matter what we say anyway. When/if the game is made, we'll all play it the way they make it. I'm sure it's gonna be fun. I can't wait.
Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry. ;)
I was going to say, if that was the case then most great cRPGs that I can recall all broke his so-called rules, since both Baldurs Gate 2 and Fallout 2 had sequels that had a lot to do with the previous game's stories/universe/characters. Even IWD 2 made mention of the events in IWD.
For the Horadric Cube they insert tons of completely useless combinations which no one uses. But yet, Blizzard still makes patches. So it's not as bad as it looks.
Not the same thing. The Horadric cube recipe was a cool concept at first. It allowed you to convert some useless equipment to more useful ones. However, notice the error they made. Most of these useless combinations have a better and less troublemaking alternative.
If holding a saber and blaster has a less troublemaking alternative, guess what will happen.
But, why limit me on my choices?
Because giving you more choices will mean spend more money for a very small number of people.
Oh, and I want to have sex with the Handmaiden on the Ebon Hawk. A pure explicit sex scene. Then maybe an orgy with all the other attractive females.
Hey, it's my choice and it's just an option!
Interesting example....
Guess it makes the point though.
A saber AND a blaster just seems... un-Star Wars like....
Oh, and I want to have sex with the Handmaiden on the Ebon Hawk. A pure explicit sex scene. Then maybe an orgy with all the other attractive females.
Hey, it's my choice and it's just an option!
That is complete over-exagerating. And guess what? Porn in game=S**t in game. Because Porn=S**t.
^^^^
Here goes Vlad calling LIAYD for over-exaggerating then going off on an over-exaggerating tangent of his own about Porn!
Pure comedy! :lol:
Edit: Thanks Vlad, I needed some humor right now! ;)
That is complete over-exagerating. And guess what? Porn in game=S**t in game. Because Porn=S**t.
I could go and say dual wielding a saber and a blaster=**** in games, because dual wielding a saber and a blaster = ****.
Same logic. Besides, it's only an option. You don't have to choose it.
Okay guys, we don't need a flame fest started here. Keep on topic.
Uh, we are on topic and there has been no flaming as of yet.
You guys are great. This is so funny now. :D
And the funny just keeps on going....
In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.
But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:
1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.
2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.
3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.
I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.
EXCUSE ME. Then what is the whole point of a sequel?
Lucas is know for his trilogies ie Star Wars and Indiana Jones. By the way he wrote both, shelved the Jones story and did Star Wars, his big thing. HE gave the story to friend Steven Spielberg to direct, his big thing.
I was under the impression that a true RPG game is the type of combat system it is. What you have listed here is nothing but nonsense. If the having the blaster in one hand and the saber in the other is going to create problems, then just leave it with only one type of weapon.
"Never tell me the odds."
^^^
You guys are great. This is so funny now. :D
No Mono, NOW it's funny.
I could go and say dual wielding a saber and a blaster=**** in games, because dual wielding a saber and a blaster = ****.
I could go as well and say having female party members that fall at your feet at the first sight of you (e.x. Handmaiden, Visas) in a game=S**t, because having females fall at your feet at the first sight of you=S**t
Same logic.
Nudity=logic (untrue)
Besides, it's only an option.
Nudity is't an option.
You don't have to choose it.
I didn't.
LIAYD, int it clearly mentioned in the rules NOT to discuss porn?
and i say YES since a writer mentioned it in a book called Jedi Trial. in it, a rodian fighting on the Jedi side takes down a whole bunch of droids with a vibroblade in one hand and a blaster in the other. im not lying.
and suppose you are a Jedi who happens to have a blaster and a whole contingent of enemy troops are hounding you. would you want to jump in the middle and get hacked to pieces by melee blades or blasted to crisp by cannons? obviously no. if you have a lightsaber in your off hand, you can just deflect all incoming bolts and pick them off one by one with the blaster.
Damn, this is better than Saturday Night Live!
Lucas is know for his trilogies ie Star Wars and Indiana Jones. By the way he wrote both, shelved the Jones story and did Star Wars, his big thing. HE gave the story to friend Steven Spielberg to direct, his big thing.
I was under the impression that a true RPG game is the type of combat system it is. What you have listed here is nothing but nonsense. If the having the blaster in one hand and the saber in the other is going to create problems, then just leave it with only one type of weapon.
The reason why I am not going to continue this is because this thread isn't about the story or about how RPGs work. I just wanted to show you that if KOTOR continued with Revan or Ry'ghol it won't be bad.
I would have said this earlier... But I thought that it would be spam, since this thread is not about it.
wow, this thread went from onbe weird idea to a mindless debate abput porno and movies.
wow, this thread went from onbe weird idea to a mindless debate abput porno and movies.
I'll stop now. I promise.
On-topic:The thing about those two things being wielded isn't that bad, you know.
@ Vlad: No, I wasn't angry or anything, it's just funny how off-topic the thread got so fast.
On Topic- Like I said, a blaster AND a saber/ A blaster alone seems un-star wars, but both would just ruin it all.
Heh, I don't understand your logic on how blasters are un-Star-Wars, but I agree on the saber+blaster point.
Just an opinion here, FWIW.
OK, here's my premise--the SW world still follows most laws of physics. Granted, we can Force Jump 20 meters, Force Lightening people without electrocuting ourselves, Force-guide a thrown lightsaber to the target(s), and other things that completely ignore physics.
However, the fighting still needs to have some realism to it in order for it to be somewhat believable, so I'm going to accept things like Force powers, but have a little harder time accepting less realistic uses of the more 'realistic' type weapons.
Now some of this is based on some personal experience with foils and epees and archery. I haven't actually handled a gun (except waterguns) so I'm going to fall back to the archery experience.
So, the choices for weapon-bearing are, for the purposes of this thread, dual melee/saber, dual ranged, and ranged/saber.
I've fought single and dual foil/epee, and it's a challenge to fight well with one, much less two (it'd probably be easier if I pursued it a lot more often). However, you can use 2 melee weapons with relative ease--it's not hard to keep 2 arms moving at all times, and since you're so close to your opponent, it's not hard to get in a hit with at least one of those swords, unless you're fighting against a fencing master (which I'm not).
Shooting archery requires 2 hands so it's not exactly applicable, but you do have to keep fairly still in order to have the accuracy to hit your target. If you move around, your arrow moves around and misses the target. I'm going to extrapolate to ranged weapons, and say that you also have to hold a gun relatively still in order to hit your target in the right place. Snipers don't run around waving their guns, they stay very still. Real combat is more fluid and automatic weapons take away some of the requirement to remain still in order to hit, but you still have to aim the thing in the right direction, and the farther away you are the more difficult it is to hit if you're moving around. You can shoot 2 ranged weapons at the same time if you're really good, but in that case you're focusing the 2 guns at the same target, and shooting 2 guns does not require a lot of movement, and in fact, the less, the better.
Now here's your experiment for the day. You need a broom stick (or some other long straight object) and a water gun or laser pointer (don't shine this in anyone's eyes!). It's better do do this where you have a lot of room, preferably outside where you can't break anything (trust me, it's really easy to break a lamp or knock over pictures if you swing around a sword inside). Stand up, and with your main hand, sight down your water gun to aim at the very center of a far target. Now, simulating blaster bolt deflection, with your other hand wildly wave around the broomstick in a variety of directions.
Question 1--could you maintain a constant sight on your target while you were moving around, or did your arm movements from your 'sword' throw you off a lot? It's really hard to move one arm around in sudden jerky movements like you'd use to deflect blaster fire and yet keep the rest of your body still.
Question 2--when your 'sword' suddenly moved into your side vision when it was waving around, did you suddenly glance at it, even momentarily? That meant you took your eye off your target, and now you have to re-aim to hit your ranged target properly.
Question 3--now have someone toss some tennis balls or wads of paper or whatever for you to deflect. Could you concentrate on deflecting the balls and yet still keep your eye on the ranged target? It's impossible to focus on the deflection and the ranged target at the same time. Even in the game, it looks like you're deflecting bolts only as you close on a target--it doesn't look like you're deflecting bolts while you're actually close enough to be in combat with an individual.
Yep, I know we're playing Jedi who are unnaturally super-talented, but ranged/saber fighting is really impractical and would jar my sense of 'reality', even for the SW universe. Not to mention that this would require such penalties for use that I agree it would not be as useful as other systems.
I suppose if the devs had everything else covered, they could add this in, but it'd rank in my book somewhere around the level of beast trick--in the game, but not terribly useful. I don't want to just deflect stuff, I want to get in there and stop the shooting altogether. The best way to not get shot is to get rid of your enemies as quickly as possible. :)
My 2c on this.
I think, using a blaster as a offhand weapon is not too weird indeed. Basically you are fighting with a one hand weapon(mainly) with a few shots thrown in.
On the other hand, using a melee weapon offhand is not too bad either. You don't have to actually attack with it, it just gives you a "melee weapon" so enemy don't claim bonus for you being unarmed melee wise. Simple parrying with a melee weapon goes a long way.
tht would actually be awesome
Jae Onasi FTW! ;)
Excellent post, well done! :D
I could go as well and say having female party members that fall at your feet at the first sight of you (e.x. Handmaiden, Visas) in a game=S**t, because having females fall at your feet at the first sight of you=S**t
Thank you for proving me right.
Your reasoning is illogical.
Nudity=logic (untrue)
This doesn't have anything to do with anything. I was just demonstrating how your "logical reasoning" is absolutely flawed.
Nudity is't an option.
But it could be just an option. You don't have to choose it. Thus the argument that everything is just an option doesn't apply to you.
In the same way, you cannot tell anyone who don't like the blaster/saber combo not to use it because it's just an option.
LIAYD, int it clearly mentioned in the rules NOT to discuss porn?
If it's your only argument...
Yes, we can't discuss porn, but that applies to discussion of where you can get porn, talk about porn stars in a movie or describing the latest Jenna Jameson movie.
I was merely making a parallel.
and i say YES since a writer mentioned it in a book called Jedi Trial. in it, a rodian fighting on the Jedi side takes down a whole bunch of droids with a vibroblade in one hand and a blaster in the other. im not lying.
And that means lightsaber blaster bolt deflection + blaster how?
and suppose you are a Jedi who happens to have a blaster and a whole contingent of enemy troops are hounding you. would you want to jump in the middle and get hacked to pieces by melee blades or blasted to crisp by cannons? obviously no. if you have a lightsaber in your off hand, you can just deflect all incoming bolts and pick them off one by one with the blaster.
First off, if that was the case, considering they had melee weapons to hack me to pieces, they would split up into two groups, one keeping me occupied by shooting at me and the other rushing up to get me in close range. This litterally keeps me from using my blaster.
Or, the other plausible option would be to use one saber, stand back and deflect all the shots on the charging enemies. Then my blaster is useless.
Jae Onasi is awesome :) I'd like to add that you can't expect to hit much holding a simple handgun in one hand unless you're pretty close.
Is there anything that we can agree about, for once? (RedHawke, Mono_Giganto, lukeiamyourdad)
Thank you for proving me right.
Your reasoning is illogical.
This doesn't have anything to do with anything. I was just demonstrating how your "logical reasoning" is absolutely flawed.
*Sits back and doesn't consider lukeiamyourdad seriously. And starts wondering if lukeiamyourdad has any moments when he doesn't make a fuss bigger than Vladimir does*
And that means lightsaber blaster bolt deflection + blaster how?
Penalties are your friend.
Penalties are your friend.
No, his argument is that someone already used a vibroblade and a blaster at the same time in the Star Wars universe. However, as far as I know, vibroblades are not lightsabers.
No, his argument is that someone already used a vibroblade and a blaster at the same time in the Star Wars universe. However, as far as I know, vibroblades are not lightsabers.
Penalties still remain. You don't have much chance when you use a melee and a ranged weapon at the same time. But still, some people (me for instance [since I am stupid. Yes I wrote it so that you or anyone else won't write it]) will hold their teeth thogether and still use it.
One question to everyone....who the hay likes using guns in these games? You're a freakin Jedi, guns are inferior to you....
See Jae Onasi :blush2:
Thanks for the compliments! :noel:
One question to everyone....who the hay likes using guns in these games? You're a freakin Jedi, guns are inferior to you....
:eyeraise:
...
:drop2:
RedHawke, please restrain me...
Penalties still remain. You don't have much chance when you use a melee and a ranged weapon at the same time. But still, some people (me for instance [since I am stupid. Yes I wrote it so that you or anyone else won't write it]) will hold their teeth thogether and still use it.
What the hell does that have to do with his argument?
He's not talking about penalties.
Keep it on subject please. We already discussed penalties and such.
Penalties are your friend.
:rofl: Bwahahahahahaha!!! Stop it Vlad you are killing me! :lol:
Bonuses are your freind Vlad, not penalties! ROFL!!! :lol:
RedHawke, please restrain me...
Ok! *Restrains Mono...* :D
One question to everyone....who the hay likes using guns in these games? You're a freakin Jedi, guns are inferior to you....
Not if you don't have a lightsaber like in TSL. You could use a vibro blade but what fun is that?
"So uncivilized." Obi-Wan Kenobi