Say I'm displaying compassion one more time and I'll send a hundred Sith Marauders to burn your home to the ground. You will live out your days on a torure rack in my flagship.
Now thats the ED we know and love :devburn:
Ach, I can do better.
Say I'm displaying compassion one more time and you'll regret it. I'll send a hundred Sith Marauders to burn your home to the ground and whip you till there's no more flesh on your back.
You will be brought to my flagship and will live out your days in eternal agony and despair. My torures will make you beg for death. Some of them include sticking hair-thin needles through your fingernails and ripping them off. Some include holding you over a reactor by your hair. One of the worst includes spending twenty days in a room with supershadow.
Although it will most likely never happen, I actually wish you could control your own moves, like in JA. You know, using the mouse button and side to side movement, etc.
^^^^
To be precise, the controls in JA rely heavily on targeting. You have to target the enemy by yourself otherwise you don't hit them. Plus, in JA, the rifles have ammo, so you have to find more when your ammo is depleted. I wouldn't want that in KOTOR since it would get tiring if you have to aim by your self and find more ammo.
one thing i'd kind of enjoy would be some new combat feats. i'm kind of bored of the three you get now (flurry, power attack and critical strike, not to mention their blaster related couterparts). Weapon Masters could really use some new combat feats, since a weapon master will rely more on his skills with a lightsaber than the force. (perhaps class specific? i know they already have some non combat feats like extra lightsaber mastery feats, but why not some more combat ones too, Jedi Masters get class specific force related feats, plus force powers). and more strategy needs to be involved in the use of combat feats. the way the game is now, the penalties involved in using a combat feat really dont make that much of a difference, since the character is so powerful. as a result, most people will choose one of the combat feats (usually flurry or critical strike) max it out and spam it the whole game. i know the game suggests using different feats against different types of enemies, but when you come right down to it, it doesnt make much of a difference what you use. In K3 it should make a difference.
i have one more idea regarding combat feats. now, i know what i'm about to say might get me lynched, but bear with me...
i think combos can work in kotor *ducks away from incoming projectiles*
ok, just hear me out! if you had a wider variety of combat feats to choose from, that each had different effects, and their usefulness varried depending on what kind of enemy you were fighting (or even when fighting multiple enemies at a time) instead of spamming critical strike over and over again, you could link certain feats in the que, say up to four feats, and when certain feats are linked in a certain order, it grants you a bonus, resulting in a more devastating move (with a cool animation to boot) you could even tie this into to saber forms. certain feats and combo moves could be more effective when using certain saber forms, for example juyo would use the most agressive feats with ease. you could develop your favorite forms more and become stronger in them. hell, you could even involve force powers (i'm sure lots of people already do this: stasis field and then lightsaber slash, or: slash with the saber, force push, force jump, saber slash.) but at the heart of it all, they would still be combat feats that were based on the D20 system (i.e. these combos would not work the same as, say mortal kombat, it would not be a combination of button presses, but a combination of feat choices)
let the stoning commence!
Sticking to my cinematic battle idea, what would be nice (as I'm sure several have mentioned) is more emphasis on the different saber styles. For instance, Form III (Resilience, don't remember the Japanese name) should you attack them, instead of just showing you stabbing at them after being parried once or twice, it could be that the opponent attacks you, you parry and counterattack. Of course, this would only work in melee fights :P For fighting a blaster-wielder at close range, well, just reflect a shot back into his face >XD.
Also, it might be nice to have "levels" of each form. Like maybe three stages, the first being like just that you know it, second being that you practice it, and the third is mastery of the form. Of course, you'd probably only be allowed to master a few forms. Which would come from constantly using that form for a certain amount of levels or damage. Of course, Form I would probably be maxed out quite easily. <(.-.)>
sooo funnny... :animelol: i agree with chainz, shame on you RedHawke... :D jk...
Really, i'd like to see a more Jedi Academy style fight/combat system, where you can make your PC do the differ. types of stunts and saber styles... I really don't have much of an opinion about the rest of the game, as long as the story and gameplay stay about the same... I would like to see a more universal (updated) graphics engine also... actually, i'd like to see a little better story (more cohesive, better continuity) also...
Then techinically your asking for an entirely different game. No offence. But, if there was a Jedi Academy fighting system, that would change the entire style of the RPG. Just saying anyway.
What?! What did I do? I just called myself like that. If this situation occured in my country, I would have recieved this title: "Ignorant Jerk". And yes, such situations occured many times.
Well... not in my book. ;) Though we are all ignorant, just in different subjects! :)
So if I insulted you, I apologise... :(
Oh no! No, no, no, no... not at all, we were just having a debate that's all, from the way your last post read I thought you were the one who was a little insulted... But I do see what I wrote made you laugh, if so then my mission is complete! :D
Then techinically your asking for an entirely different game. No offence. But, if there was a Jedi Academy fighting system, that would change the entire style of the RPG. Just saying anyway.
Word! :D
^^^^
*Picks up both ChAiNz and TOK and hurls them down a nearby main power shaft... hears their screams on the way down and sees the blue flash as the main reactor doesn't seem to agree with them...*
*cough... cough...* smoke inhalation is not good for you and the burnt smell, wow, that could last a day or two… it's a good thing there was a maintenance hatch down there... :)
Then techinically your asking for an entirely different game. No offence. But, if there was a Jedi Academy fighting system, that would change the entire style of the RPG. Just saying anyway.
no not really, they could come up with a way to have that type or something similar to that type of fighting/combat style and still have the auto select enemy and the infinite energy weapons/blasters... all i'm saying is it would be nice to be able to do more stunts and utilize more saber styles in combat then we are currently able to use... they can eben be one button actived stunts if you wish...
I think that I have an idea about the combat system (just hear me out, it's not FPS).
I recently saw a video footage on the upcoming Fable: The Lost Chapters, and I can say: The combat system ROCKS! Maybe the combat system can be from Fable, combined with the D20 system. It would work just fine with everybody.
Let's face it. The ai aiming sytem sucks. I was using HK-47 with improved sniper shot next to a rancor and I hit it 25% of the time! I think they need more manual control.
Let's face it. The ai aiming sytem sucks. I was using HK-47 with improved sniper shot next to a rancor and I hit it 25% of the time!
There is no aiming system, it is all die rolls to hit vs the creatures defense rating, nothing more, nothing less.
I think they need more manual control.
FPS elements do not belong in an RPG...
There is no aiming system, it is all die rolls to hit vs the creatures defense rating, nothing more, nothing less.
Which is what i don't like about it.
Then you're going to have to live with it. FPS controls are not meant to be in an RPG. Ever.
I don't want the combat system to changed at all (maybe the animations but not the system itself). I like the "fire and forget" combat system. If I wanted to concentrate on combat I would buy a FPS. RPG's are about the story and the quests, not about combat.
@ RedHawke, lukeiamyourdad:
About DarthLinde:
Give the guy a break, already. He doesn't want it changed, he wants it improved. And as far as I know, I was the one who wanted to change the combat system, so those statements should be adressed to me. :xp:
He doesn't want it changed but he wants FPS controls? That's what manual control is, regarding ranged weapons.
Well, I guess i was wrong. Vladimar-vlada's right, I just don't want them looking like idiots. Maybe taking size in effect for the percentige of hitting?
IMO, the Sniper shot feat should have been given an attack bonus instead of the minus to defense and the stunning abilities.
Anyway, what does size have to do with anything? Are you talking about the size of the gun or the size of the character?
Hmmm...that's not a bad idea. Like shooting a Wookiee or a rancor would be easier then shooting a Jawa.
The targets size in the eyes of the D20 PnP RPG system are allready factored in, any possible modifiers for a creatures size should allready be in it's Defense Rating, this includes Rancors, Wookiees, and Jawas. Or any creature larger or smaller than human size.
Any possible aiming is represented in the RPG by the Sniper line of feats, anything else and you are shooting from the hip... so to speak, none of this is very accurate. You can indeed miss a huge target with a ranged weapon by firing wildly... to be accurate you need to aim, and in D20 this is represented by the Sniper Shot, and Critical Strike line of Feats. ;)
@ RedHawke, lukeiamyourdad:
About DarthLinde:
Give the guy a break, already.
Ok, and I take it I said something harsh to him? I don't see where I did?
Red Hawke
Didn't know about the size moddifier being rolled into the defense rating, thanks for the info.
How about some other elements of PnP RPG's like deathblows. I know in KOTOR you got them if the enemy was level 4 or lower and incapcitated but why not have this if any character is incapacitated. If you're stuck in stasis and a dark jedi takes a cut at your head with a lightsaber then you should be killed, PC or not. As the manual for D&D says "a dagger in the eye is still a dagger in the eye."
Also maybe some bledding damage if you take a critical hit. Could provide another use for health, to stop the bledding.
Also have a situation where if like 50+ damage is taken from a single blow then a fortitude check must be made or the character dies. I'm pretty sure that's from D&D to.
Also there could be damage to specific parts of the body. As an example give a head attack a higher DC than just a normal attack but also make a hit do alot more damage. I don't know what specific numbers should be used but just the idea of location based damage.
Ok, and I take it I said something harsh to him? I don't see where I did?
You two really need to lighten up a little, seriously. I mean, every time a new guy comes here and sugests something to improve combat, with a TINCY WINCY little amount of FPS elements, you two go defensive like:
"Oh, no! He wants to change KOTOR to an FPS! TUTU-RUTU-TU! FPS elements don't belong in a RPG, we cannot allow you to change that. You have to understand that the RPG rules must be upholded, we're quite content and you should be too." :rolleyes: :rofl:
Geez, and whenever someone wants to insert something that ABSOLUTELY has NO EFFECT on RPG rules (vehicles for example), you to go: "Oh, no..." and so on.
So give some people a chance (you gave me, and you don't have to again), all right?
Now, on with the thread.
Also there could be damage to specific parts of the body. As an example give a head attack a higher DC than just a normal attack but also make a hit do alot more damage. I don't know what specific numbers should be used but just the idea of location based damage.
Best argument I heard to support deathblows, I agree.
Lord Pickle, unfortunately the game does not integrate "house" or "optional" rules, the ones you listed are all optional rules, Deathblows, Called Shots, Blood loss from wounds, and Death From Massive Damage, are all optional in the PnP D20 RPG system and the computer version of the game does not make use of optional rules for various reasons. The biggest one is that the 'Vanilla' version of the game rules usually has the widest acceptance, so the game makers go with that.
You two really need to lighten up a little, seriously.
I mean, every time a new guy comes here and sugests something to improve combat, with a TINCY WINCY little amount of FPS elements, you two go defensive like:
"Oh, no! He wants to change KOTOR to an FPS! TUTU-RUTU-TU! FPS elements don't belong in a RPG, we cannot allow you to change that. You have to understand that the RPG rules must be upholded, we're quite content and you should be too." :rolleyes: :rofl:
:roleyess: You really need to lay off your caffiene intake Vlad, and learn to get your story straight too. I typed one line to a person and you tell me to give that person a break, then you type this?
Still sore at me for dashing your dreams with reality I see...
It is actually you who needs to lighten up a little... seriously! ;)
Geez, and whenever someone wants to insert something that ABSOLUTELY has NO EFFECT on RPG rules (vehicles for example), you to go: "Oh, no..." and so on.
Yup, because the Idea will never happen, it competes with Galaxies, no need to pick on me again for being realistic about such things.
So give some people a chance (you gave me, and you don't have to again), all right?
Nope, I posted one line Vlad, one line...
FPS elements do not belong in an RPG...
How is that not giving someone a chance? :dozey:
I think that I have an idea about the combat system (just hear me out, it's not FPS).
I recently saw a video footage on the upcoming Fable: The Lost Chapters, and I can say: The combat system ROCKS! Maybe the combat system can be from Fable, combined with the D20 system. It would work just fine with everybody.
So you want TFHS (third person hack and slash) rather then FPS? I have played Fable and its not a tactical game, you slash and hack your opponent till he/you dies, repeat with next enemy.
Yet again RedHawke, I was trying to make a joke. It obviously didn't quite get a result I expected (expected result: Everyone goes :rofl: ). :rolleyes:
Sorry, if I insulted you by the way.
All right, D20 rules with more animations or Fable combat system...
Choose carefully.
Yet again RedHawke, I was trying to make a joke. It obviously didn't quite get a result I expected (expected result: Everyone goes :rofl: ). :rolleyes:Remember that joking and sarcasm do not always come across well in text form. I didn't think you were making a joke either.
^^^^
And yet again I do something wrong. Geez, I'll just stop posting on this thread.
RedHawke
So if the dev made the "house" rules optional, like being able to choose massive damage or deathblows ect... from the gameplay screen, then it could
work eh. I think that those elements add more realism and interest to the game.Imagine using insanity on ten guys then just tearing through them.
Also fearful presence would be cool. Like if you just tore through said ten guy then the eleventh is either petrified or hual's ass away from you as fast as possible. It always seems odd that a low level character will stand and fight even through a gang of his buddies were just swiped out by my PC without him breaking a sweat.
Could also be neat if you are a Sith Lord and you spook people due to your presence. I mean if you were in the presence of a Sith Lord like Darth Sidious or Darth Nihilus you'd probably by scared half to death.
Also fearful presence would be cool. Like if you just tore through said ten guy then the eleventh is either petrified or hual's ass away from you as fast as possible. It always seems odd that a low level character will stand and fight even through a gang of his buddies were just swiped out by my PC without him breaking a sweat.
That sounds great to me. It would make it more real. I do beleive that more enemies should run from you if your character is awesome.
Could also be neat if you are a Sith Lord and you spook people due to your presence. I mean if you were in the presence of a Sith Lord like Darth Sidious or Darth Nihilus you'd probably by scared half to death.
Vader, yes, Sion, yes, Sidious, probably, Nihilus, not unless you are afraid of clowns.
Also the effect of pain would be cool. Say if you use force lightning on a group of low level characters then afterwards each needs to make a will saving throw or be immobilized by pain. Maybe that would make lightning too powerful but it seems unlikely that a regular sith trooper could take a powerful blast of electrical energy, which would probably burn a significant protion of his body, without at least wincing in pain. Have the effect last for a couple of rounds since their body would be in shock. No pun intended. But a higher level character like Sion or Traya could ignore this effect since they are so powerful.
^^^^
And yet again I do something wrong. Geez, I'll just stop posting on this thread.
You don't need to stop posting. We all need to listen to each others ideas and try to put them together so we all agree. Wait, I'm supposed to be a sith lord! Uh, scratch that thought. Your anger will make you strong! :sithk:
"You don't need to stop posting. We all need to listen to each others ideas and try to put them together so we all agree."
GENIUS!
And yet again I do something wrong. Geez, I'll just stop posting on this thread.
Can't you just feel the drama in Vlad's post? :D
RedHawke
So if the dev made the "house" rules optional, like being able to choose massive damage or deathblows ect... from the gameplay screen, then it could
work eh. I think that those elements add more realism and interest to the game.Imagine using insanity on ten guys then just tearing through them.
Unfortunately these optional "house" rules are not widely accepted by everyone, so to be neutral, the game companies go for a more "vanilla" version of the game system.
But I have never been one to shy away from adding options, if they could add in these optional PnP rules, possibly activated individually in the 'options' screen somewhere, or in an ini file, I'm sure it would be a big hit. :D
More PnP rules options in the KOTOR Series = Good :)
FPS or TPHAS features in the KOTOR Series = Bad :(
More PnP rules options in the KOTOR Series = Good :)
FPS or TPHAS features in the KOTOR Series = Bad :(Amen, borther, amen.
I totally AGREE with every thing you posted Vladimir-Vlada, I tired of hering these idiots crying about keeping that boring stupid D20 combat system. If the developers listen to them Knigths of the Old Republic will dieout, they should have change the combat system in Sith Lords.I want the fighting styles to be like in ROTS game with KOTOR style with more realism like I want to have the ability move around, duck, jump, strafe, crouch and aim in ranged combat. I also want to drive vehicles and pilot starfighters & also explore entire worlds and the galaxy. Lastly the the damage system from Deus Ex you mention will be a welcome addition that many Jedi games have been lacking I mean the realism is missing.
1. Then I might suggest that RPG games aren't your cup of tea... while I personally do not like the D20 system, it is now the established system for the KOTOR series, to change this would kill the series... it would be like making the next Jedi Academy game, a long series of First Person Shooter games, into a Real Time Strategy game. The fans of that series would not sit well with that decision. Why do you expect us to with KOTOR?
2. You can keep your "idiots" comments to your self, little children like labeling people who's opinions differ from their own, and name calling of this sort is a sign of this. :roleyess:
3. It is you people who want to ruin the KOTOR series with all the different game genre elements... not everyone has the manual button mashing dexterity of a cat, and the ability to endure long hours of FPS or Action styles of gameplay. RPG's are cerebral not a test of your reflexes.
No my freind, it is people who think like you do that want to ruin things.
^^^^^
Again with the "You'll ruin KOTOR if you add anything there" thing, now aren't you? :xp: :lol: :D
Oh, yeah. RedHawke, he was quoting me, refer that to me please. :D :lol:
2. You can keep your "idiots" comments to your self, little children like labeling people who's opinions differ from their own, and name calling of this sort is a sign of this.
Oh, don't be so hard on him. He just wants to make sugestions? If anyone should be called having "idiot" comments it should be me. :D
No my freind, it is people who think like you do that want to ruin things.
Oh, come on. It can't be that bad.
Oh, don't be so hard on him. He just wants to make sugestions?
Vlad, windu6 wasn't kidding or playing around, that "idiots" comment he made was an unwarrented insult to all those who happen to think differently than him, pure and simple. I see nowhere in his post where he was kidding? Quite the contrary... while he has absolutely every right to his opinion, he has no right to call others who have differing views "idiots"
Quite the contrary... while he has absolutely every right to his opinion, he has no right to call others who have differing views "idiots"
He said that? :eyeraise: Hm :/ then I surely haven't read his post clearly. But since he said that that's bad.
And to think that I recieved that rant by just sugesting...
Hmm, just like the rest of the entertainment industry, gaming has "genres." Big surprise?
The Jedi Knight series is a real time FPS.
The KotOR series is an RPG.
The Battlefront series is strategy gaming.
To help distinguish the various genres they're given each their own theme. JK is post OT. Battlefront is Prequel/OT and KotOR is of course Old Republic.
Firstly, if you like real time combat/FPS style what are you doing at the KotOR site trying to pawn every else's genres? You should be at the JK sites begging them to release a pre-Prequel version of their gaming system.
That way, we get to keep our RPG and you get to have your FPS.
On the combat, of course the d20 system can be enhanced with improved animations such as holstering weapons when not in use unless selected otherwise, limb severs/mild mutilation when 50% creature VP is done in one blow, Darth Maul style instant kills when 90% creature VP damage is done in one blow, and telekinetic powers to move or summon objects rather than only to knock down creatures, such as disarming a single opponent Darth Vader style.
Could also use some increased difficulty variations such as being disarmed to enter certain areas, but perhaps hiding a lightsabre in T3 (at last he'll have a reason for being selected as a companion), and yes, starship combat and general development is a huge area for the game and doesn't really need all that much game focus.
Turret control can be more optionally selectable, Dark Side characters may choose to lay waste to a city as they leave it, perhaps to reduce pursuing fighters if a hostile location (like Korriban or an enemy capitol vessel), the turret shell can be rearranged to be a starfighter cockpit and a whole adventuring dimension could be added.
Ship modification and berthing are important elements and could vary hostile starship encounters.
But if you want FPS style real time with keyboard/mouse control and 200 hotkeys, go play JK and leave KotOR to its fans. Someone at Obsidian or LA might overhear you and confuse you with one of us.
I mean you don't watch a drama and then start whingeing it doesn't have enough action. Drama is for the people who like drama. Ergo RPG etc.
Were you talking to me? :confused:
You're not the center of attention all the bloody time. He was referring to windu6 obviously.
^^^^
I asked a dumb quetion. Geez! :xp:
*Gives vanir a cookie!* :burg1:
Well said! :D
Wow! A lot of good ideas on this thread. And there seems to be a lot of charged emotions in some of the posts here too... ;)
I like a lot of the ideas posted here. If I don't credit the appropriate poster just correct me later cuz I just spent 20 minutes reading all the posts and may not give appropriate credit as all the info is floatin around in my head.
1) KotOR is based on D20 and needs to continue with that combat system. - I agree with the camp that thinks the D20 system is a part of KotOR now. If LucasArts drops D20 in favor of another system I think they'll risk alienating KotOR's core group at the expense of satisfying what I perceive as a fringe group.
2) Improved Combat Animations and Combat Variations - I like ED's ideas as well as the others who have stated they want improved combat animations. I've seen my PC take a blaster shot to the chest on more than one occasion and I've always thought that a serious hit like that should have at the least temporarily incapacitated my character. So in short I don't think the animation always correlates with the dice roll result and would like to see that improved. I think some have stated in effect that the animations should be indicative of damage done and a character's health, e.g. if character has full hit points then takes a hit reducing hit points by 5% then the combat animation should be a cut to the arm or the leg. If character takes a serious reduction in hit points from an attack then the animation should be a serious hack to the character's more vital areas.
The other big thing that I think has already mentioned and I would like to strongly support is changing the animation such that when characters are just walking around they don't have a weapon in their hand all the time. When combat is initiated then the lightsabers are ignited, blasters are pulled out of their holsters, and the melee ensues. After combat is over everybody puts their weapons away because they don't need them anymore. No more running around with a weapon in hand all the time.
3) Improved/Additional Force Powers - Isn't this always a demand from game players? :D Although I do think that sometimes force powers get overdeveloped because everyone loves them so much. But I think a Force Pull should definitely be added to the game. A Force wielder should be able to pull a weapon out of the hands of a non-Force user during combat. I'm not sure if Force Pull would work during non-combat situations though as that becomes more FPS-like. But in conjunction with my next point I think the use of Force pull should require the user to have a free hand. If the user is using both hands then he doesn't have a free hand to pull the weapon to.
4) I would like to see new penalties/restrictions with using certain Force powers during combat.
Force Push change- Akin to the game (when not modded of course) restricting the use of certain Force powers if the character is wearing armor, I think the same should be done if the character doesn't have a free hand, e.g. using two weapons or two-handed weapon. I'm not usually one for comparing KotOR with the movies due to the large time gap between the two but to me there seems to be a physical connection with the use of certain powers like force push. IMO force push should be unavailable if the character doesn't have a free hand. The use of force push in the movies seems to always be indicated by a corresponding hand movement. Darth Maul uses force push with his free hand after Obi-Wan hacks his dual-bladed lightsaber in two thus rendering it a single bladed lightsaber. Obi-Wan and Anakin use force push with their free hand as well. So I would like to see Force Push and Force Whirlwind available only if the character has a free hand. I also think Force Storm should only be available if the character unequips his weapon since it's such a high level force power. Force Storm is such an effective power but I think that the user should be subject to a significant defensive penalty because it requires the use of both hands. While not a direct comparison, I regard Force Storm at the same level of force power that Yoda used in AotC. Yoda deactivates and holsters his lightsaber so he can use both hands in his use of the Force to stop that big pillar from falling on Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Force Lightning change - Other examples, not having to do with force push but I think are noteworthy are the use of Force Lightning by Darth Sidious as well as Count Dooku. Whenever Sidious or Dooku use Force Lightning they don't have a lightsaber in their hand. So I would like to see Force Lightning increased in its effectivess but its use would require the character to not have a weapon equipped and a defensive penalty applied. If the character targeted by the FL attack is able to dodge/make saving throw then he should be able to put the whammy on the character that originated the attack.
I thing the Fable combat system was the best perhaps a little bit too simple but with some change it could be good, using the lighting strike in Fable was soo funny and also the option of first person shooting.