I've noticed how a morality system is a large subject of discussion here, but everyone seems to be forgetting something.
Assuming there will not be a new playable character (and that you have Revan and the Exile), there really shouldn't be much of a morality system.
I think it would be best if you selected Revan and the Exile's starting alignment from the main menu, and rather than having the choice of the Dark or Light Side in the game, instead you'd go ever further into the depths of evil (or good). Revan and the Exile's alignments have been pretty much determined in the previous two games. It wouldn't make that much sense if the player had the option for the Exile to go Light Side after she had exterminated the Jedi Order.
If you had the option to choose what happened in the previous games at the main menu and got set with an alignment, it probably wouldn't be that restrictive. Say that you selected Revan to be on the Dark Side. Rather than staying the same throughout the whole game, Revan could start to learn far more refined ways of evil, and steadily fall even further into the depths of the Dark Side than he had before.
What are your thoughts?
either way, you know Revan is going to come back and be in charge of a new Mandalorian army. But like in the Movies and the games, there has always been a chance for redemption so this one is going to be a stumper!
A Mandalorian army? Revan will be in charge of the Sith if he's evil, or the Republic if he's good. The Mandalorians will his commandos no matter what side he's on.
And there won't be chance to be redeemed or to fall, Revan and the Exile made their choices... They'd be flip-floppers if they changed their minds.
heck no. i'd be completely disappointed if a system like this was implemented in Kotor III. one of the coolest ideas that had me sold on the Kotor was the ability to start out as a seemingly random person and move them along either dark or light paths, or switch their alignments half-way through. the method you're proposing leaves almost nothing open to the player as to how the character is aligned with the exception of one point at the create-a-character portion. i'd go as far to say that i wouldn't even bother playing Kotor III if this idea was implemented.
oh yeah, and for the last time: I DO NOT WANT EITHER REVAN OR THE EXILE TO BE MY PC OR EVEN A SELECTABLE PARTY NPC.
and don't take this as a flame, Devon. i'm just really opposed to a system like this. ;)
Assuming there will not be a new playable character (and that you have Revan and the Exile), there really shouldn't be much of a morality system.I think there will be a new PC. It would be hard for them to make Revan or the Exile the PC, since you would have to decide a ton of things about what happened in the previous game.
What are your thoughts?
I don't really like the idea. Like stinger said, I love how you can choose your alignment, and change your path whenever. It adds a lot to the kotor games, and I definately hope they keep that system.
I really hope they don't have Revan or the Exile as the returning PC, so I've gotta completely disagree with this thread about not being able to choose LS or DS.
^^^^
I agree.
There should definitely be a new PC. It would save time instead of having to decide a million things about Revan and Exile's past.
But choosing between light or dark during your journey is part of the reason why these games are so good. . .
heck no. i'd be completely disappointed if a system like this was implemented in Kotor III. one of the coolest ideas that had me sold on the Kotor was the ability to start out as a seemingly random person and move them along either dark or light paths, or switch their alignments half-way through. the method you're proposing leaves almost nothing open to the player as to how the character is aligned with the exception of one point at the create-a-character portion. i'd go as far to say that i wouldn't even bother playing Kotor III if this idea was implemented.
oh yeah, and for the last time: I DO NOT WANT EITHER REVAN OR THE EXILE TO BE MY PC OR EVEN A SELECTABLE PARTY NPC.
Quoted for enphasis ;)
Seriously, no offence to Devon, but this is the worst idea we've had yet. It turns it into JA where you "could choose the lightside or the darkside".
The entire fun of KotOR was turning from light to dark or dark to light because of your actions. This would only be:"Darkside press here. Lightside press here."
It would remove one of the core elements of KotOR.
Heck, I could deal with a combat system change but not this.
Quoted for enphasis ;)
Seriously, no offence to Devon, but this is the worst idea we've had yet. It turns it into JA where you "could choose the lightside or the darkside".
No offense taken, but what do you call the encounter with Bastila on the temple summit?
The entire fun of KotOR was turning from light to dark or dark to light because of your actions. This would only be:"Darkside press here. Lightside press here."
It would remove one of the core elements of KotOR.
Heck, I could deal with a combat system change but not this.
It's not like you'd be pressing buttons all the time, just at the main menu. Revan and the Exile would steadily get eviler and eviler. To be able to change your mind after killing off all the Jedi would be - well, stupid.
No offense taken, but what do you call the encounter with Bastila on the temple summit?
Hmm...You are quite right about this though. TSL had no such thing.
It's not like you'd be pressing buttons all the time, just at the main menu. Revan and the Exile would steadily get eviler and eviler.
That would be pointless. Why would they get eviler? Assuming they get to Dark Side mastery, what's left? KotOR left the door open for your redemption. Like I said, your actions should make you evil, not a lightside or darkside button.
To be able to change your mind after killing off all the Jedi would be - well, stupid.
I suppose that it was also stupid when Darth Vader decide to go back to the light to save his son.
Vader was never trully dark side, he made the choice to go down that path to save lives, this is not what a true sith lord would do.
Vader was never trully dark side, he made the choice to go down that path to save lives, this is not what a true sith lord would do.But he killed a ton of people along the way. Can anyone say force choke?
It's rediculous to say that Vader was never truly dark side.
That would be pointless. Why would they get eviler? Assuming they get to Dark Side mastery, what's left? KotOR left the door open for your redemption. Like I said, your actions should make you evil, not a lightside or darkside button .
Why would they get eviler? They're fighting the True Sith, who are far more cruel and vicious than the fake ones. Revan and the Exile would probably learn from their actions before killing them.
Anyways, it would seem rather odd to have exterminated the Jedi Order in TSL and start out neutral. Whether a person can redeemed or not, you probably would be on the Dark Side if you've wiped out the guardians of peace and justice.
The ideal a Sith should strive for is to fall so far no chance of redemption is possible.
I suppose that it was also stupid when Darth Vader decide to go back to the light to save his son.
Yeah, it was. He was a great Sith Lord. Not as great as Sidious, but it was a pity that all his potential was wasted. Given a few more decades on the Dark Side, who knows what he would have been like.
The main reason I don't think this is a good idea at all is because the LS/DS options are one of the most interesting parts of this series. Removing them would make your choices pretty obsolete. If you had to pick to play as a certain alignment from the very beginning, then already 50% of your choices are decided before you even begin the game. No thank you.
(in response to K1's blantent light/dark temple summit choice) Hmm...You are quite right about this though. TSL had no such thing.
Well, it sort of did with the Jedi Masters and whether you decided to kill them or let them live, although it was much more subtle than K1's temple summit. I've never tried only killing one and letting the other two live, but i've heard that even if you don't kill them all, the game assumes you have gone darkside and they will attack you anyway, even if you just kill one. But, like i said, its much more subtle.
however, i have to say that i agree with everyone else here that the light/dark system is an integral part of the kotor experience. personally, i'd like this system to be more in depth with less thugish darkside choices, but being able to pick an alignment at the beginning takes away like, half the game. i really enjoy trying to make the same decisions i would make, instead of hunting out the most obvious dark or light choices, and seeing how my characters end up at the end, it makes for a much more organic and indepth and making me choose an alignment at the beggining means i'm not really playing as myself as much as i am playing a premade character.
The Darth Vader example was exactly what I was thinking of LIAYD. :D
Vader was never trully dark side, he made the choice to go down that path to save lives, this is not what a true sith lord would do.
Correction, he made that choice to save a life, killing hundreds of others in the process. Extremely selfish. In the end, he even attacked the person he was trying to save, because he had gained power, and was afraid to lose it.
As for Vader's potential in a few decades... Well, he's human. He's in his mid forties by RotJ time. Safe to say old age takes over what little is left of his body.
As for the LS/DS thing, it takes away a big aspect of TSL's gameplay. Besides, if you go DS in TSL, Kreia gives you a big speech about why what you did was stupid. It may not have meant much for you, but my DS Mastery Sith Assassin went LS as best as he could after that. :) She had several good points. As for Light corrupting to Dark, uh, that can happen at any time frmo what I've seen in the movies. Even the greatest Jedi has the opporunity to fall.
Why would they get eviler? They're fighting the True Sith, who are far more cruel and vicious than the fake ones. Revan and the Exile would probably learn from their actions before killing them.
So because you see someone killing puppies, you start killing puppies too? I thought Sith Lords were more capable to think for themselves other then following what others do. What you could learn from them is not attitude itself, but knowledge (ie how to have a better control of the Force or better saber styles).
Anyways, it would seem rather odd to have exterminated the Jedi Order in TSL and start out neutral. Whether a person can redeemed or not, you probably would be on the Dark Side if you've wiped out the guardians of peace and justice.
You simply assume that you're going to play as either the Exile or Revan. Yet, by your sayings, you've just added another reason why it's a bad idea to bring those characters back as the PC.
The ideal a Sith should strive for is to fall so far no chance of redemption is possible.
Redemption is always possible. Ideal or not, no one can totally erase one-self.
The question really, is how far can you fall. This is not the object of the debate at all.
Yeah, it was. He was a great Sith Lord. Not as great as Sidious, but it was a pity that all his potential was wasted. Given a few more decades on the Dark Side, who knows what he would have been like.
Your personnal opinion does not stand in the way of facts. Vader was redeemed, so can be a Darkside Revan or Exile. Even so, Revan, if you've played KotOR on the Lightside, was redeemed.
Which also goes back to choice. That was one of the biggest selling points of KOTOR, and of cRPGs in general: having the choice to do with your character what you want.
If you remove the LS/DS options and instead select from the very beginning which alignment you are, then you no longer have a choice about how to approach situations.
No offense taken, but what do you call the encounter with Bastila on the temple summit?
It's not like you'd be pressing buttons all the time, just at the main menu. Revan and the Exile would steadily get eviler and eviler. To be able to change your mind after killing off all the Jedi would be - well, stupid.
Perhaps, but part of what made KOTOR II so cool was that it wasn't as much a decision of morality as much as it was one of strength, one of right, not necessarily good or evil. If that were the case, the exile might have destroyed the Jedi for being weak and flawed in their teachings, and promptly afterwards restructured the order to emphasize the lessons he/she had learned. I think the second game opened up a new side that didn't necessarily stratify the entire experience into good or evil, and made it more open for interpretation. That being so, it seems that the lightside and darkside shifts would have to continue in order to keep the spirit of the game alive. I have a feeling that the system will stay but that the plot will develop even more the ideas behind light and dark so that it won't be tiring to have to be nice or really mean all the time to fuel your powers.
So because you see someone killing puppies, you start killing puppies too? I thought Sith Lords were more capable to think for themselves other then following what others do. What you could learn from them is not attitude itself, but knowledge (ie how to have a better control of the Force or better saber styles.
You just provided the answer to your own question. Learning combat or control of the Force from the True Sith would cause most people to fall to the Dark Side. Look at Atris - she was a member of the council, tried to learn of the Sith by delving into their holocrons, and she fell to the Dark Side. It's actually rather repetitive.
As for what's so evil about their combat, almost all Sith, (and probably moreso the True Sith) use the Dark Side of the Force to fuel their attacks and channel their rage.
You simply assume that you're going to play as either the Exile or Revan. Yet, by your sayings, you've just added another reason why it's a bad idea to bring those characters back as the PC.
A bad idea? Most certainly not. Revan the Exile's stories have to be resolved - and it is usually best to play the character who's story will be resolved. What would it be like to be HK-47 for all of KOTOR I, and simply hearing about how Revan killed Malak?
Besides, what new character can their be? Even if you're on the Light Side, nearly all the Jedi are wiped out, and if you're on the Dark Side, they're gone for good. There's no one to train the new character, and I doubt LA would have your character be trained by the Sith and them redeem him/herself. Usually it's the other way around.
Besides, why would the new character have conviently stayed away from the events of KOTOR I and II?
You just provided the answer to your own question. Learning combat or control of the Force from the True Sith would cause most people to fall to the Dark Side. Look at Atris - she was a member of the council, tried to learn of the Sith by delving into their holocrons, and she fell to the Dark Side. It's actually rather repetitive.
Actually no. You're talking about falling to the Dark Side. I'm talking about someone who's already a Darksider. If a Sith doesn't like to kill puppies but sees another doing so, will he simply imitate the action? Quite unlikely. It wouldn't be in the Sith's caracteristics to just do random killing. Have you seen Uthar do some random killing? Yet his students were little thugs.
As for what's so evil about their combat, almost all Sith, (and probably moreso the True Sith) use the Dark Side of the Force to fuel their attacks and channel their rage.
Of course. But how could it be more evil? It stops at a certain point.
A bad idea? Most certainly not. Revan the Exile's stories have to be resolved - and it is usually best to play the character who's story will be resolved.
You're right. TSL turned out pretty bad with Revan's story unresolved. Hey, both of their stories (Revan and the Exile) are unresolved. Besides, there is a thread for this.
What would it be like to be HK-47 for all of KOTOR I, and simply hearing about how Revan killed Malak?
I have no idea what this is about.
Besides, what new character can their be? Even if you're on the Light Side, nearly all the Jedi are wiped out, and if you're on the Dark Side, they're gone for good.
Yoda and Obi-Wan survived the Jedi purge.
There's no one to train the new character, and I doubt LA would have your character be trained by the Sith and them redeem him/herself. Usually it's the other way around.
*points upwards*
Besides, why would the new character have conviently stayed away from the events of KOTOR I and II?
Disciple, Handmaiden, Atton, Mira and Bao-Dur stayed away from the events of KotOR I and became Jedi or Sith during TSL.
Something similar could be done with a new PC.
I'm just stating a possibility.
I want kotor 3 to have the choice. That's what makes Kotor such a good game.
Actually no. You're talking about falling to the Dark Side. I'm talking about someone who's already a Darksider. If a Sith doesn't like to kill puppies but sees another doing so, will he simply imitate the action? Quite unlikely .
Maybe I will have to explain this in greater detail. The Sith draw upon the power of the Dark Side to fuel their power. Anyone who draws upon the Dark Side - even if they are a Jedi - will become corrupted by it. The more powerful the Sith is, the stronger their connection to the Force - and the Dark Side - is. The True Sith are far more powerful than the fake ones, and no doubt have a much greater command of the Dark Side.
Very skilled Jedi and Sith can learn from their opponents just by watching them. Look at what the Exile did to the Jedi Masters.
Now, for how all that is relevent.... Revan and the Exile will no doubt learn from the True Sith while fighting them, and either learn their techniques, and thus, drawing more heavily upon the Dark Side, or, faced with more powerful adversaries, they will draw upon the Dark Side's power even more, and thus corrupting them even further.
They most certainly won't watch the True Sith kill puppies and do the same...
Of course. But how could it be more evil? It stops at a certain point.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying there's a limit to how evil someone can become?
You're right. TSL turned out pretty bad with Revan's story unresolved. Hey, both of their stories (Revan and the Exile) are unresolved. Besides, there is a thread for this.
Not really. TSL was not about Revan, and since there will (hopefully) be a sequel, there was no need to completely resolve his story. It's like ESB - Vader was still alive and the Empire was still going strong when the film ended.
I have no idea what this is about.
:rolleyes: You had been saying there should be a new character to play in KOTOR III, even though Revan and the Exile's stories will be resolved in that game. It would be like playing as HK for all of KOTOR I.
Yoda and Obi-Wan survived the Jedi purge.
That is not relevent to this discussion. Those were different circumstances, and they were facing weaker enemies.
The Jedi were wiped out in KOTOR II - how they started up again is beyond me. Maybe the Handmaiden and Mical used their sensitivity to the force and the knowledge on Telos to rebuild the Order.
Disciple, Handmaiden, Atton, Mira and Bao-Dur stayed away from the events of KotOR I and became Jedi or Sith during TSL.
Something similar could be done with a new PC.
I'm just stating a possibility.
True, but those party members are not individuals capable of changing the galaxy - a person like that can't really stay in the background for several wars, and if there is a new PC in KOTOR II, you would no doubt be playing as person who is capable of deciding the fate of the galaxy.
Maybe I will have to explain this in greater detail. The Sith draw upon the power of the Dark Side to fuel their power. Anyone who draws upon the Dark Side - even if they are a Jedi - will become corrupted by it. The more powerful the Sith is, the stronger their connection to the Force - and the Dark Side - is. The True Sith are far more powerful than the fake ones, and no doubt have a much greater command of the Dark Side.
Very skilled Jedi and Sith can learn from their opponents just by watching them. Look at what the Exile did to the Jedi Masters.
Now, for how all that is relevent.... Revan and the Exile will no doubt learn from the True Sith while fighting them, and either learn their techniques, and thus, drawing more heavily upon the Dark Side, or, faced with more powerful adversaries, they will draw upon the Dark Side's power even more, and thus corrupting them even further.
They most certainly won't watch the True Sith kill puppies and do the same...
Hmm...That does make sense to an extent. The problem is that in KotOR, using the Darkside alone is not enough to change your alignment. Or else, there would be a lot of Jedi Masters corrupted because of the number of times they used Force Storm.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying there's a limit to how evil someone can become?
Once you've committed mass genocide, killed puppies, drank blood from a fountain and corrupted little children, you end up having done everything.
Not really. TSL was not about Revan, and since there will (hopefully) be a sequel, there was no need to completely resolve his story. It's like ESB - Vader was still alive and the Empire was still going strong when the film ended.
I don't see why not. TSL was not fully about Revan, but a good part of it involves him. Anyway, what I meant was that people wanted to play Revan in TSL and now they want to play the Exile and/or Revan again. For some reason...
:rolleyes: You had been saying there should be a new character to play in KOTOR III, even though Revan and the Exile's stories will be resolved in that game. It would be like playing as HK for all of KOTOR I.
You don't know how it would be resolved. There are ways to reselve their stories without having to play them. Obviously, TSL continued Revan's story without playing as Revan. We heard about him through dialogue only. I'm not saying it has to be done the same way with KotOR 3, I'm saying it's not impossible to bypass those "problems".
That is not relevent to this discussion. Those were different circumstances, and they were facing weaker enemies.
That is VERY relevent. The simple fact that two Jedi could escape a purge means that even back during the time of KotOR, one could've escaped.
Remember Jolee? He was lost on Kashyyyk until Revan found him.
It doesn't even have to be an important and very powerful Master, a Knight ca be enough to train you.
The Jedi were wiped out in KOTOR II - how they started up again is beyond me. Maybe the Handmaiden and Mical used their sensitivity to the force and the knowledge on Telos to rebuild the Order.
Scroll up.
True, but those party members are not individuals capable of changing the galaxy - a person like that can't really stay in the background for several wars, and if there is a new PC in KOTOR II, you would no doubt be playing as person who is capable of deciding the fate of the galaxy.
The Exile did stay in the dark for an entire conflict. I don't see how you cannot be on a very long exile or have somehow dissapeared for two wars. We don't know how long the events of KotOR3 are going to take place, but if we consider both the events of K1 and K2, it would be possible for you to just be a little kid when K1 started and the Jedi were busy and didn't notice you, a teenager during K2 which would mean that nobody could train you and finally an adult in K3, when you stumble upon and old hermit.
I'm just saying off the top of my head, but I have no problem if the story behind the PC's non-participation with galaxy events is credible.
You assume too much and are not using your imagination.
Hmm...That does make sense to an extent. The problem is that in KotOR, using the Darkside alone is not enough to change your alignment. Or else, there would be a lot of Jedi Masters corrupted because of the number of times they used Force Storm.
Notice how you don't see any Jedi Masters use force storm. To use a power like that would go against several of the Jedi's major beliefs.
I imagine a Jedi Master could be corrupted by storm, but it would take a VERY long time.
Using the Dark Side of the force naturally corrupts people. Look at Exar Kun. He was a slightly more brutal (but not evil) Jedi. He goes to Korriban, gets trapped under a bunch of rocks, and under Freedon Nadd's influence, uses the Dark Side to force his way out and keep himself alive. Such a heavy usage of the Dark Side corrupted him.
Once you've committed mass genocide, killed puppies, drank blood from a fountain and corrupted little children, you end up having done everything.
There is a difference between the deeds you do and how you do them.
That is VERY relevent. The simple fact that two Jedi could escape a purge means that even back during the time of KotOR, one could've escaped.
Remember Jolee? He was lost on Kashyyyk until Revan found him.
It doesn't even have to be an important and very powerful Master, a Knight ca be enough to train you.
Those were VERY different circumstances. The Sith were much stronger in TSL than they were in RotS, and the ability to escape them was almost impossible. Not many Jedi would choose to go worlds dead to or completely alive with the force, and as such, the Sith were able to hunt them down with extreme ease.
It doesn't matter how remote Jolee was, he would have been found out eventually. The Sith were targeting their enemies through the Force.
it would be possible for you to just be a little kid when K1 started and the Jedi were busy and didn't notice you, a teenager during K2 which would mean that nobody could train you and finally an adult in K3, when you stumble upon and old hermit.
If the person was a little kid in KOTOR, he wouldn't be a teenager by the time of TSL.
Besides, wouldn't a few Sith Assassins have gone to take care of the kid?
There is a difference between the deeds you do and how you do them.not really. if Taris was destroyed by a Death Star instead of a bunch of ships firing a barrage of blaster fire, would that make Malak eviler??Those were VERY different circumstances. The Sith were much stronger in TSL than they were in RotS, and the ability to escape them was almost impossible. Not many Jedi would choose to go worlds dead to or completely alive with the force, and as such, the Sith were able to hunt them down with extreme ease.
It doesn't matter how remote Jolee was, he would have been found out eventually. The Sith were targeting their enemies through the Force.okay, then you just completely ignored the fact that Darth Vader was the most powerful Dark Jedi in existance. also, just because the circumstances were different doesn't make it irrelevant. the Sith were hunting down the Jedi in both instances. and it is quite logical that there are survivors to any catastrophe.
did the Jews escape the Holocaust while living in Germany?? obviously not all of them, but that didn't mean that a number of them didn't escape.
If the person was a little kid in KOTOR, he wouldn't be a teenager by the time of TSL.
Besides, wouldn't a few Sith Assassins have gone to take care of the kid?well, not everyone can detect a child. although Vader was the most powerful Sith of all time, not even he could detect that Luke or Leia was his own children until they had gained power.
and yes, a 10 year old kid could be a 15 year old teenager during the timespan between K1 and K2. :dozey:
Notice how you don't see any Jedi Masters use force storm. To use a power like that would go against several of the Jedi's major beliefs.
I imagine a Jedi Master could be corrupted by storm, but it would take a VERY long time.
Using the Dark Side of the force naturally corrupts people. Look at Exar Kun. He was a slightly more brutal (but not evil) Jedi. He goes to Korriban, gets trapped under a bunch of rocks, and under Freedon Nadd's influence, uses the Dark Side to force his way out and keep himself alive. Such a heavy usage of the Dark Side corrupted him.
You totally missed the point. I don't doubt that using the Dark Side would corrupt someone but it doesn't work that way in KotOR. You'd have to force the gameplay mechanics so that Dark Siders only use Dark Side powers while Lightsiders only use Light side powers. However, modifying a pretty much hardcoded thing into the concept of KotOR wouldn't be smart now.
stingerhs answered the rest.
not really. if Taris was destroyed by a Death Star instead of a bunch of ships firing a barrage of blaster fire, would that make Malak eviler??okay, then you just completely ignored the fact that Darth Vader was the most powerful Dark Jedi in existance. also, just because the circumstances were different doesn't make it irrelevant. the Sith were hunting down the Jedi in both instances. and it is quite logical that there are survivors to any catastrophe.
You misunderstand me. Say someone kills a puppie. The person would be eviler if they enjoyed it, rather than if they were bullied into it.
Darth Vader is a Sith, not a Dark Jedi. Please make sure your facts are accurate before arguing over them.
The Sith were also hunting down the Jedi in different ways. In RotS, there are a couple thousand Jedi, and two Sith. In TSL (When the Sith begin hunting down the Jedi) There are a hundred Jedi, and thousands of Sith Assassins who target their enemies through the force. The Sith Lords in the events of TSL were far stronger than the ones in RotS. Those are different circumstances, which will have different results.
did the Jews escape the Holocaust while living in Germany?? obviously not all of them, but that didn't mean that a number of them didn't escape.well, not everyone can detect a child. although Vader was the most powerful Sith of all time, not even he could detect that Luke or Leia was his own children until they had gained power.
That is because he didn't know they existed. When he last saw Padme, she had given birth to his children, and Palpatine told Vader he had killed her. And when he met Leia on board the Tantive IV, he had no way of knowing she was his duaghter. Her last name was Organa, not Skywalker, and he had no other way of recognizing her.
and yes, a 10 year old kid could be a 15 year old teenager during the timespan between K1 and K2. :dozey:
We must have different definitions little kids, then. In my opinion, a little kid would be five.
You totally missed the point. I don't doubt that using the Dark Side would corrupt someone but it doesn't work that way in KotOR. You'd have to force the gameplay mechanics so that Dark Siders only use Dark Side powers while Lightsiders only use Light side powers. However, modifying a pretty much hardcoded thing into the concept of KotOR wouldn't be smart now.
Being a video game, Lucasarts could not make everything realistic. Instead, they just made force powers of the opposite alignment cost more.
Darth Vader is a Sith, not a Dark Jedi. Please make sure your facts are accurate before arguing over them.my facts are quite clear. no matter how you look at it, Darth Vader is the most powerful of any Dark Jedi or Sith that has ever existed. and perhaps unknown to you, the term 'Sith' is often synonimous with 'Dark Jedi'.That is because he didn't know they existed. When he last saw Padme, she had given birth to his children, and Palpatine told Vader he had killed her. And when he met Leia on board the Tantive IV, he had no way of knowing she was his duaghter. Her last name was Organa, not Skywalker, and he had no other way of recognizing her.once again, you are missing the point. the Assassins didn't detect the Exile because s/he could not feel the Force. the same can be said about children to a certain extent: unless they recieve training, a child couldn't have enough power to make an impact in the Force enough to attract the attention of the Sith Assassins. note that a disturbance in the Force wasn't felt by either Palpatine or Vader concerning Luke until he had met up with Yoda on Dagobah.We must have different definitions little kids, then. In my opinion, a little kid would be five.then you are quite ignorant. the general concensus refers to young humans as "children" before they reach adolescence, which is around 11-13 years old depending on differing biological factors. that means from the age of 8 in K1, that child would be a teenager in K2.Being a video game, Lucasarts could not make everything realistic. Instead, they just made force powers of the opposite alignment cost more.which is logical considering this is a story-based RPG, and not an action oriented game. having your alignment modified in the middle of combat, based solely on the alignment base of a Force Power you use, doesn't fit in the genre of story-based RPG's.
The Sith were also hunting down the Jedi in different ways. In RotS, there are a couple thousand Jedi, and two Sith. In TSL (When the Sith begin hunting down the Jedi) There are a hundred Jedi, and thousands of Sith Assassins who target their enemies through the force. The Sith Lords in the events of TSL were far stronger than the ones in RotS. Those are different circumstances, which will have different results.
But in RotS, the Sith had all the clones (which numbered more than the number of Sith Assassins in kotor) to kill all the Jedi, plus the Jedi weren't expecting the clones to attack them. So the ways that the Jedi were attacked were not so different.
my facts are quite clear. no matter how you look at it, Darth Vader is the most powerful of any Dark Jedi or Sith that has ever existed. and perhaps unknown to you, the term 'Sith' is often synonimous with 'Dark Jedi' .
Darth Vader doesn't have the power to kill a whole planet with nothing but the force, does he?
Sith and Dark Jedi are seperate. A Sith is a person who is a member of the Sith, and has been trained by a Sith Master, and has achieved a rank within them. A Dark Jedi a force-sensitive individual who uses the Dark Side, but is not a memeber of the Sith (Empire).
once again, you are missing the point. the Assassins didn't detect the Exile because s/he could not feel the Force. the same can be said about children to a certain extent: unless they recieve training, a child couldn't have enough power to make an impact in the Force enough to attract the attention of the Sith Assassins .
Get your facts straight. When a person sensitive to the Force is born, their strength in the Force does not increase by natural means. Instead, they learn how to effectively channel and wield their power.
note that a disturbance in the Force wasn't felt by either Palpatine or Vader concerning Luke until he had met up with Yoda on Dagobah.
That was because when Luke met up with Yoda, he learned how to effectively wield his power. Before that, he had power, but could wield it.
then you are quite ignorant. the general concensus refers to young humans as "children" before they reach adolescence, which is around 11-13 years old depending on differing biological factors.
I only said little kid, not child. My definition of a little kid is someone five and under. A kid is six to adolescence.
having your alignment modified in the middle of combat, based solely on the alignment base of a Force Power you use, doesn't fit in the genre of story-based RPG's.
Which is exactly why Bioware did not include that realistic factor.
Get your facts straight. When a person sensitive to the Force is born, their strength in the Force does not increase by natural means. Instead, they learn how to effectively channel and wield their power.
In TSL, there is no mention of Sith assassins targeting Force Sensitive children. Only Jedi, but even so, if the Sith believe the Jedi extinct, why would they bother killing Force sensitive children if nobody is there to train them?
That was because when Luke met up with Yoda, he learned how to effectively wield his power. Before that, he had power, but could wield it.
So that counters stingerhs' argument how?
The fact remains that nothing was felt until Vader came very close to Luke (the Death Star trench run in ANH).
I only said little kid, not child. My definition of a little kid is someone five and under. A kid is six to adolescence.
You can't live by just following your own personnal conventions.
Which is exactly why Bioware did not include that realistic factor.
And the reason they should include it is?
ok heres wat i think
1 jedi could use dark powers but it would be harder for them to use because they dont no how to draw energy for that type of attack in this characters case
yaddle - same races as master ypda
Morichro, a method for killing a being without using the Dark Side of the Force
2 if u no how 2 use it then it would become easier to use think of it like a skill such as typing the more u use the better you become so there isnt really light or darkness
Darth Vader doesn't have the power to kill a whole planet with nothing but the force, does he?
Sith and Dark Jedi are seperate. A Sith is a person who is a member of the Sith, and has been trained by a Sith Master, and has achieved a rank within them. A Dark Jedi a force-sensitive individual who uses the Dark Side, but is not a memeber of the Sith (Empire).
Umm... Nihilus didn't have that sort of power either. According to Kreia, it was just gut instinct that happened thorough a person's feelings and therefore Nihilus didn't have any way to control it.
Besides, who wants to kill a planet with the force when you have the Death Star? That's like buying an electric pencil sharpener and still sharpening pencils manually (srry. couldn't think of a better analogy).
Although I agree with your points on the difference between Sith and Dark Jedi, I am confused as to why Malak sent Dark Jedi after us in KOTOR instead of full-fledged Sith Masters. Anyone have any theories?
Although I agree with your points on the difference between Sith and Dark Jedi, I am confused as to why Malak sent Dark Jedi after us in KOTOR instead of full-fledged Sith Masters. Anyone have any theories?
Dark Jedi mercs I guess. Or maybe followers who haven't trained under the Sith yet.
In TSL, there is no mention of Sith assassins targeting Force Sensitive children. Only Jedi, but even so, if the Sith believe the Jedi extinct, why would they bother killing Force sensitive children if nobody is there to train them?
SOmehow, they might become Jedi. They could stumble across some old holocrons.
And the reason they should include it is?
I've already said that's realisitc. Put two and two together.
Darth Vader doesn't have the power to kill a whole planet with nothing but the force, does he?
Not that any of his D6 or D20 stat sheets ever showed. :D
[Fond Memories] Yes, the D6 RPG power Create Force Storms I remember it well... it comes from the Dark Empire sourcebook. And you can indeed consume whole planets! :emperor:
Get your facts straight. When a person sensitive to the Force is born, their strength in the Force does not increase by natural means. Instead, they learn how to effectively channel and wield their power.
Actually if we are talking pure game mechanics here, a person is not usually born Force Sensitive in the eyes of an RPG system...
WEG D6 RPG you have to spend 40 Character Points to become Force Sensitive or take a Character Template that starts that way... then you can spend CP to purchase the Force Skills of Control, Sense, or Alter plus the obligatory CP's per Force Power learned, if you have a "Master/Holocron" or at Double the CP cost if you are learning by yourself. Or lastly you play the printed adventure "Battle for the Golden Sun." ;)
D20 RPG you have to aquire the Force Sensitive Feat, either through the GM or when you gain a feat through levelling, or start as a Jedi class.
Both these systems allow for learning the ways of the Force without a Master/Teacher...
Just FYI! :D
SOmehow, they might become Jedi. They could stumble across some old holocrons.
Or they could train them to be Sith. That's not the point. There's no indication whatsoever of the Sith Assassins targetting Force Sensitive children.
I've already said that's realisitc. Put two and two together.
You've also agreed that changing alignment in the middle of combat based solely on the kind of Force powers you use didn't fit the story-based RPG genre.
stingerhs said this:
having your alignment modified in the middle of combat, based solely on the alignment base of a Force Power you use, doesn't fit in the genre of story-based RPG's.
to which you replied:
Which is exactly why Bioware did not include that realistic factor.
It obviously means that you agreed that it didn't fit into a story-based RPG.
Or perhaps you want JK of the Old Republic...
I think that Devon spook some truth, because lucasfilm has stated that the true chronicle end for both games is the lightside one, and as the third game might be the end of the story, there must be something certain.
Well, we all like to choose, and the both games gave us this pleasure but at this game you might choose from the beginning, like choosing Revan/Exile alignment, gender and other things…and about changing your alignment during the game, I believe that this well make the story a little bit silly, you know what I mean; light then dark then light...etc, changing their alignment will make the characters look as a shaky personalities, like they don’t know what they want to do, and this is not how the leaders are (as they are both leaders).
After all I believe that I am now starting to fall from the light side as I sensed some wrongs in the Jedi philosophy, and for this I think that me and Devon agreeing on the not-choosing matter because we deals with absolutes. :vadar:
Wow i missed a big conversation lol, all i want to say is isn't the KOTOR games based on your choiced so LS/DS should be there change your path at any time or just be LS or DS fully.
if there will be a new PC then it will be with choices, but being Revan or The Exile then choos again, it will be silly as i said before, anyway there must be an absolute end for Revan and the Exile's journey.
I think that Devon spook some truth, because lucasfilm has stated that the true chronicle end for both games is the lightside one, and as the third game might be the end of the story, there must be something certain.
No, there doesn't. Remember's TSL questions?
Well, we all like to choose, and the both games gave us this pleasure but at this game you might choose from the beginning, like choosing Revan/Exile alignment, gender and other things…and about changing your alignment during the game, I believe that this well make the story a little bit silly, you know what I mean; light then dark then light...etc, changing their alignment will make the characters look as a shaky personalities, like they don’t know what they want to do, and this is not how the leaders are (as they are both leaders).
Which is why it's bad idea to play with Revan or the Exile.
I still don't understand why people have such a small imagination. Doesn't anyone here think that their stories can be resolved without playing as the both of them? In TSL, we got the continuation of Revan's story without the character ever appearing.
KotOR got praises from everyone, pretty much everyone who played the game, for being able to change your alignment through your actions and some of you even consider scrap one of the fundamentals, one of the things that make KotOR what it is?
I said that if it's about a new pc then you must have a lot of choices, and that’s why I am with the idea of a new pc.
About the questions, yes you have choose your own story through them, such as Revan's gender and alignment, but now you will encountered them so if you have two possibilities for both (gender and alignment) then there will be 8 ones and if you add your choices which are four: so just try to imagine how much possibilities you will have in the storyline, off course we did not feel this in TSL because answering the question only effect the dialogue, but now it will effect the whole storyline, because if the characters did not appear as it was in TSL, then it will be -in my opinion- a big disappointment, I mean imagine some one tells you in the game that Revan was killed by the true sith, or returned to the republic and you didn’t encountered him, and that the same thing happened to the exile…we accepted this in TSL because we knew (or at least hopped) that there will be another episode, I don’t know what the people will think if it happened like this, but I will be disappointed.
[Fond Memories] Yes, the D6 RPG power Create Force Storms I remember it well... it comes from the Dark Empire sourcebook. And you can indeed consume whole planets! :emperor:
Fond memories indeed... And also the undoing of the first Eclipse.
That was one thing Bioware got wrong... They called a buffed-up version of lightning "storm".
Or they could train them to be Sith. That's not the point. There's no indication whatsoever of the Sith Assassins targetting Force Sensitive children.
There was no indication of the True SIth or the Exile in KOTOR I. Who's to say they can't bring that point up in KOTOR III? Anyhow, it would be illogical for them not to eliminate all potential threats.
It obviously means that you agreed that it didn't fit into a story-based RPG.
Or perhaps you want JK of the Old Republic...
You are now resorting to feeble accusations to make your arguments look superior. I have already stated my opinion about a JK of the Old Republic. If you would like to know it, use the search function. In KOTOR I, a Light Sider using death field (or some other Dark Side power) would not make much of a difference. It would take years for someone to be corrupted by that - and KOTOR does not last years.
I still don't understand why people have such a small imagination. Doesn't anyone here think that their stories can be resolved without playing as the both of them?
They could be, but it would not feel as fulfilling.
In TSL, we got the continuation of Revan's story without the character ever appearing.
But not the resolution. THose are completely different things.
KotOR got praises from everyone, pretty much everyone who played the game, for being able to change your alignment through your actions and some of you even consider scrap one of the fundamentals, one of the things that make KotOR what it is?
There is a difference. In KOTOR I, Revan starts out without his memories, so he is free to determine his alignment without flip-flopping. Revan can change his alignment in the game whenever he wants, up until the temple summit. Would it make much sense if Revan goes from Light Side to Dark Side to Light Side? No. That's not "redemption". That's flip-flopping.
I am with the idea of a new pc.
*raises eyebrows*
Would it make much sense if Revan goes from Light Side to Dark Side to Light Side? No. That's not "redemption". That's flip-flopping.
Anakin/Vader did that...
Over a period of decades, not several years.
There was no indication of the True SIth or the Exile in KOTOR I. Who's to say they can't bring that point up in KOTOR III? Anyhow, it would be illogical for them not to eliminate all potential threats.
Why? They'd be hunting shadows. They are not potential threats if nobody can train them. Falling on a holocron is not nearly as good as falling on a teacher.
If that was so, why wasn't the Empire after Luke before his encounter with the droids?
And no True Sith or Exile in K1 is a poor example. During the time of K1, it was uncertain if the game would do well enough to make a sequel or not. Thus starting to talk about characters in a potentiel sequel would only seem weird if there is no sequel.
Besides, the True Sith and the Exile had nothing to do with the events of K1. Only when Revan started having flashbacks of the True Sith did it become relevent.
Anyway, the explanations were clear. The Sith targeted the Jedi, not the potentiel Jedi. I think that killing Force sensitive children is a serious enough information to be mentionned somewhere in the game.
You are now resorting to feeble accusations to make your arguments look superior. I have already stated my opinion about a JK of the Old Republic. If you would like to know it, use the search function. In KOTOR I, a Light Sider using death field (or some other Dark Side power) would not make much of a difference. It would take years for someone to be corrupted by that - and KOTOR does not last years.
I did not accuse you of anything. I did say "perhaps". If I said that you indeed wanted a JK of the Old Republic, I would have said so.
Second of all, you missed the entire point or went over it in haste. You agree obviously that using the Dark Side force powers does not corrupt enough (or at all). You also agreed that changing alignment during combat just because of the Force power you're using is not fitting with the story-based RPG genre.
Yet, your whole argument rested upon that single fact, that using rage and passion (therefore Dark Side powers) would make the character eviler. Of course, it doesn't work that way in KotOR because it's a story-based RPG. I will remind you again that you agreed that it didn't fit in.
You've pretty much destroyed your own argument.
They could be, but it would not feel as fulfilling.
People said the same thing about the Exile, saying that it wouldn't be as fulfilling to play as him instead of Revan. Nonetheless, as I already said, there's another thread for this.
But not the resolution. THose are completely different things.
Not at all.
They could be present in some form or another. Playing as them or having them as NPCs is a completely different matter. Besides, discussion for another thread.
There is a difference. In KOTOR I, Revan starts out without his memories, so he is free to determine his alignment without flip-flopping. Revan can change his alignment in the game whenever he wants, up until the temple summit. Would it make much sense if Revan goes from Light Side to Dark Side to Light Side? No. That's not "redemption". That's flip-flopping.
Call it whatever you want, look at Anakin. Light Side-Dark Side-Light Side. Also, note that there's not enough DS or LS points in the game to make you really a flip-flopper. Besides, who gets to the Light, falls to the Dark and comes back to the Light and then falls back to the Dark again all in one game?
Over a period of decades, not several years.
20 years. We don't even know how long K3 is going to be set after K2.
devon im seroius ur idea sounds o ...... k...... becuase i allways decide before i play wat alignment im gona be but half the fun is watching the character go either way