... has one saving grace: He is old and will hopefully die soon.

Previously known as the Panzer-Cardinal, Ratzinger was, until his appointment to Pope, the leader of the Inquisition.

His track record includes attempting to suppress reformist South American priests, openly supporting Bush in the last election and fabricating slander and outright lies about various birth control measures as part of the Church's official 'won't see, won't hear' stance on AIDS, women's rights and family planning.

Hopefully his appointment will serve as a reminder that the Church is not a friend of humanity and should be denied at every turn.

I've seen him in some interviews last night, obviously he's not the dumb kind of man. In fact, from the church's point of view he's kind of a "genius" (well not really but.. you know).

What i found interresting is that he obviously knows about the "conflict" between the church's values and the time we live in, and that he has some argueable thoughts about it.

The crazy thing is, he said something like "protestant church is not a church" and such, considering that he's pretty much some kind of a hardliner..

He's also responsible for the decision that the "german" catholics church does not support any kinds of antenatal classes (?) because those are necessary to take if a woman considers abortion. But besides that these have mainly a supportive or informative task. I think it is wrong to leave pregnant women alone without any help, wether they consider abortion or are just unsure what they have to expect or want to know where to go for pregnancy-gymnastics.

So after touching that topic, again, I just add I cannot really imagine that any other possible pope would do any "better". It's the Catholic Church, after all.

Its possible he may change his tune now he is pope, like a lot of public figures do when they change roles....

but on the whole he is a very disappointing choice from both a compassion and a modern world standpoint. sigh.

I felt I should contribute with some sources:

For:
A Ratzinger fan club. (http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com) Unfortunately, my browser fails to connect to it, giving me a "connection timed out" error.
Amicidi de Josef Ratzinger (http://www.ratzinger.it/). This page I could link to, but unfortunately it is in Italian or Spanish.

Against:
Could not find any.

Unbiased:
BBC News' biography of Ratzinger (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/profile/), from which I quote:
The new Pope has been chosen from what could be termed the traditional side of the Catholic Church. To some, he heralds intellectual salvation during a time of confusion and compromise. To others, his record as Pope John Paul II's prefect of doctrine showed the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to be an intimidating "Enforcer", punishing liberal thinkers, and keeping the Church in the Middle Ages.

While many theologians strive for a Catholic Church that is more open and in touch with the world around it, the new Pope's mission has in the past seemed to entailing stamping out dissent, and curbing the "wild excesses" of this more tolerant era.
Promising:rolleyes:.

A compilation of articles on Ratzinger. (http://www.cardinalrating.com/cardinal_84.htm)

I find it sad that a fundamentalist is now in charge of the Catholic Church.


Hopefully his appointment will serve as a reminder that the Church is not a friend of humanity and should be denied at every turn.
That is a pretty harsh statemet there, and I expect you to take a good deal of 37mm flak for it from the religious right;). The Church has arguably done a lot of good things, too, and you have to admit it gives strenght and a feeling of community to many people, the troubled and the happy alike. But their stance against other religions (of course, the Christians aren't the only ones with such problems), homosexuality, contraceptives, and having children outside of marriage bothers me more than a little bit.

Originally written by Cardinal Ratzinger
"Rock" . . . is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe.

In other words, according to Ratzinger, rock music equals devil worship.

And don't even get me started on his inhumane views on homosexuality and abortion.

I believe the Catholic Church is digging their own grave. Cruel medieval beliefs have no place in a modern world.

(...) a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe.
Sounds like a Catholic sermon to me:D.

With the talk of the Da Vinci Code going on, added with the new pope election, I feel I should recommend Dan Brown's book "Angels and Demons". No claiming that the Holy Grail is Magdalena's private organ, just an informative read about the Vatican, including detailed accounts on the Swiss Guard, how the Pope is elected, what national treasures reside in the Vatican, and which attractions it offers. In fact, when I saw the news broadcasts about voting for a new pope, I thought "wow, it's just like in Angels and Demons";).

Click (http://www.cafeen.org/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=47135)
)

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle For:
A Ratzinger fan club. (http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com)[/B])

People who spell 'truth' with a capital 't' should have their heads examined.

That is a pretty harsh statemet there,

Actually, I think not. Every hour...

- 600 humans contract HIV. Most are young, half are women.

- 2400 women recieve an abortion under hazardous conditions

- 11000 women are impregnated against their will.

Source: Politiken (http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.sasp?PageID=372573)

And that's every hour. A year has 365.25 x 24 hours. You do the math.

The Papacy is the single biggest factor in this abomination. So, actually I'm being kinda moderate...

I heard from one person I know that Ratzinger used to be in the hitler youth corp. I don't know if that's true or not. But if it is then my religion is very screwed.
I wasn't that suprised by his election though. On a whole. conservatism has been on the upswing. I just wonder how long it will be before power swings in favor the other side.

- 11 000 women are impregnated against their will.
Counting consentual sex that's not planned to lead to pregnancy? Or just rape?

And there are much more than 11 000 rapes globally each hour, just that most of them fortunately don't lead to pregnancy.

Originally posted by JediLiberator
I heard from one person I know that Ratzinger used to be in the hitler youth corp. I don't know if that's true or not. But if it is then my religion is very screwed.
I wasn't that suprised by his election though. On a whole. conservatism has been on the upswing. I just wonder how long it will be before power swings in favor the other side.

I wouldn't count on it. The church is becoming more conservative because the number of catholics is tanking in the western world, but shooting up in more conservative africa.

A conservative pope will just cause the numbers to nose dive even further in europe, america etc... leading to a church that is entirely conservative in membership.

WASHINGTON -- German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, played an indirect role in the 2004 U.S. campaign when he directed Catholic bishops to deny Communion to abortion rights supporters such as Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

But Kerry, a lifelong Catholic and former altar boy, declined to criticize the new pontiff Wednesday.

"The election of a new pope is a great moment of hope, renewal and possibility for the Catholic Church," Kerry said in a statement.

Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote a letter last June to U.S. bishops stating that Catholics who support abortion rights are guilty of a "grave sin" and are unworthy of Communion.

Although he did not mention Kerry or any other person by name, it was widely viewed that he was referring to Kerry when he said the sacrament should be denied in "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws."

Further, his letter said any Catholic who votes for such a candidate is likewise "unworthy."

However, "Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia," Ratzinger wrote. Disagreeing with the pope "on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war" would not make someone unworthy to receive Communion.

Originally posted by JediLiberator
I heard from one person I know that Ratzinger used to be in the hitler youth corp. I don't know if that's true or not. But if it is then my religion is very screwed.

He was forced to be a Nazi. Not all Nazis were bad, you know, just because you were a German soldier at the time of Hitler's rule doesn't mean you were some evil person.

Although this doesn't mean that I disagree with your last sentence. ;)

He was nazi alright. to tell you the truth I think that is kinda cool.

as for this:

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Click (http://www.cafeen.org/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=47135)
)



thanks that was KOOL!:D

Just because he was member of the Hitler youth, doesn't mean he actually was or still is a Nazi. Like said before, there was not really a choice, you had to join. Many Germans were frightened in those times.

And I don't think anything that supports Nazis (to use a common term) could be "kinda cool".

Originally posted by JediLiberator
I heard from one person I know that Ratzinger used to be in the hitler youth corp. I don't know if that's true or not. But if it is then my religion is very screwed.

I've read that as well. And in a fairly trustworthy paper too. Of course, he deserted towards the end of the war, but - frankly - bailing out after '43 shows nothing about his political or ethical views, only that he wasn't a complete idiot.

Still, the vast majority of all German children during those years were in the Hitler-Jugend. It was if not compulsory then... recommended to enroll your children. Failure to do so could be... unhealthy.

So, on balance, I wouldn't hold that against him.

Counting consentual sex that's not planned to lead to pregnancy?

Amongst other things, yes. However, 'consentual' on part of the woman is a bad joke in most cultures.

However, "Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia," Ratzinger wrote. Disagreeing with the pope "on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war" would not make someone unworthy to receive Communion.

Interesting... Where did you get that snippit?

- 11 000 women are impregnated against their will.Amongst other things, yes. However, 'consentual' on part of the woman is a bad joke in most cultures.

Hrm, sounds like a bit of a skewing of your figures there. ;)

Reminds me of the old ultra-feminist self-fulfilling adage that "all sex is rape, therefore all men are rapists and all women will be raped at least once during their lives".

Originally posted by Spider AL
Hrm, sounds like a bit of a skewing of your figures there. ;)

Reminds me of the old ultra-feminist self-fulfilling adage that "all sex is rape, therefore all men are rapists and all women will be raped at least once during their lives".

Well, that kinda is the situation south of the Sahara...

May be, may be a generalisation. Doesn't alter the earlier statement's skewing of the figures however...

Not really. One has a right to choose whether or not one wants to be pregnant seperately from whether or not one wants to have sex.

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Still, the vast majority of all German children during those years were in the Hitler-Jugend. It was if not compulsory then... recommended to enroll your children. Failure to do so could be... unhealthy.

He was installed as pope the day after Hitler's birthday.... Not that this is really significant to anyone with critical thinking skills, but the conspiracy-theory nutters have got to be going bonkers! :cool:

"Say five heil Mary's and five our fuhrer's".
--- Ratzinger in confession :D

Originally posted by SkinWalker
"Say five heil Mary's and five our fuhrer's".
--- Ratzinger in confession :D [/B]

:eek:

Waging war against any non-Catholic group!

WASC's? Somehow that just doesn't sound as "powerful" as WASP. :p

http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/article/2439745)


By WENN
............................................
New Pope Benedict XVI has blasted J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter books for "undermining the soul of Christianity".

Nicknamed 'God's Rottweiler', Pope Benedict is set to confuse Catholics across the world because his predecessor John Paul II praised the multi-millionaire for her Christian lifestyle.

Benedict, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is grateful to Harry Potter: Good or Bad author Gabriele Kuby for revealing the hidden agendas behind the popular children's books.

He says, "It is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow properly."

Leading Christian theologian Uta Ranke-Heinemann, 77, comments, "The Vatican feels it has the copyright on what is good and what is evil and it does not want anyone else infringing its right to this monopoly.

"It will condemn anyone who tries to enter this territory without its permission."

He says, "It is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow properly."
Better ban the Q'uran, too;). It disagrees with Christianity on several points, you know.

And Star Wars too, since the Force conflicts with god's powers...

uh oh. then you'd have a real holy war. stars wars nuts vs catholocism. :p

One has a right to choose whether or not one wants to be pregnant seperately from whether or not one wants to have sex.Sounds suspiciously like another old ultra-feminist fallacy that "a woman has the right to walk naked into a biker bar and not be molested".

Lol, technically. But realistically if she chooses to walk naked into the biker bar and IS molested, she bears some responsibility.

Likewise people who choose to have sex must bear some responsibility, even if they used contraception. No contraception is 100% perfect, and it says as much on the label. Men are in many cases made to support a woman they've gotten pregnant unintentionally, so why should a woman not be made to support a child she's unintentionally produced?

Bear in mind while pondering this that I am pro-abortion because it helps our global population problem. That's the main reason for abortion of unwanted children I think, we're filling the world up with unwanted kids. Who needs to produce more?

To the book banning comment, sadly no seems to learn that suppresion never serves the people who use it. All it does is backfire.

To my mind everyone who's seen Ratzinger in action has seen him as the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In that office (almost for the entire time that John Paul II was Pope) his JOB is to "go after" the theologians who stray too far from the traditional teachings. It's his job to be a hardliner and "defender of the faith" etc.

Liberals in the Church hated him because he didn't say anything they liked, but I doubt he'll be more radical than JP2 was (then again, who knows). Remember, that JP2 had a lot of friends as well as enemies. Liberals wanted him to do more, conservatives were horrified everytime he did something new. Of course Fundamentalists who aren't Catholic are going to hate him for disagreeing with their own beliefs, and atheists are going to dislike him for supporting a religion, period.

As prefect of CDF Ratzinger's reputation has been one that makes liberals blood boil. While JP2 does the ecumenical thing, Ratzinger says "oh yeah, we're right and you're wrong, just so you know." Then again, most churches says that, he's just being up front about Catholic belief. While there are plenty of teachings that not only Catholics can be saved, the main teaching is that THIS is the Church that Christ founded historically, so we're on the right track. Anyway...

The Pope has a much different role. He's more the diplomat and unifying force that leads the church.

So in a sense, it's a "good cop/bad cop" kinda thing (or "good bishop, bad bishop" if you want.

The Pope calms everybody down and builds the bridges, the prefect of CDF is the watchdog and defender of orthodoxy.

As Pope I doubt he'll do much more differently than JP2 has, since he's surrounded himself with pretty much the same administration as before, and he's got this huge legacy to live up to. Yes, he's an old man, but all of this stuff doesn't say how he's going to perform.

Remember, that John XXIII was an old guy who nobody thought would do anything, and he called the Second Vatican Council which made HUGE waves in the Catholic world (and the rest of the world with the relation of the RCC to everyone else). It was so radical that some groups even LEFT the Church because of it (see Mel Gibson's church for example). Then we have somebody like John Paul I, who seemed like a young, healthy (it turned out later he wasn't so healthy) guy who was very liberal, and he didn't last much more than a month (33 days in office), felled by a heart attack (some suspect he was assasinated, but that's a conspiracy theory, anyway).

He just moved into the Papal apartments yesterday, I say give him a chance.


If the Malachy prophecy doomsayers are correct, we're at the end, but then anything can happen. He could live to be 100, and the next pope might keel over within seconds of taking office. Personally I think this particular 'prophecy' is probably a forgery, but if it makes you feel better to prepare, good luck to you! We'll find out...

As to the Harry Potter thing, I don't know what to make of it. Assuming he's not being misquoted of course, this sounds like another one of those PR moves that is just going to backfire. Look at Jerry Falwell and the Teletubbies or that Focus on the Family guy and Spongebob. There's far more important threats in society than some children's entertainment. JP2's focus on the Culture of Death was spot-on I think, so hopefully Benedict XVI will see the wisdom in not going after the small fry. I mean seriously, how many people has Harry Potter corrupted? As I see it, it's encouraging kids to read, and on the other hand its' part of the fad materialism like any other popular kids thing (pogs, pokemon, whatever). It'll pass...

The article itself doesn't provide a lot of info. First off it talks about Harry Potter: Good or Bad by Gabriele Kuby, which I haven't read. Ratzinger read the book and then said (I assume they're quoting the Pope here):

It is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow properly.

So kids who read Harry Potter might not grow up to be good Christians? Not that I agree, but it sounds like that's all that's being said, not that they should be banned.

Some person named Uta Ranke-Heinemann ("Leading Christian Theologian") then blasts the pope saying:

The Vatican feels it has the copyright on what is good and what is evil and it does not want anyone else infringing its right to this monopoly.

It will condemn anyone who tries to enter this territory without its permission.

Certainly this "theologian" (what denomination does he or she represent?) is pissed!

Apparently the previous Pope praised J.K. Rowling (sp?) for being a good Christian (again, no details).

I'd be interested to read this book he refers to and see what the author says about Harry Potter books, to better understand what the Pope was saying. Anyway, this isn't an infallible declaration of dogma, so Catholics who don't agree are free to decide for themselves.

Edit:

According to another (see below) article, the statement above from Ratzinger was made 2 years ago when he was still a Cardinal.

http://www.wizardnews.com/story.200504242.html)

I couldn't find the book listed on Amazon.com, I'm guessing that's the english translation from a (?) German book title.

Edit #2:

Harry Potter gut oder bцse (from Amazon.de) by Gabriele Kuby, published December 2002. Seems to have a lot of negative reviews (not surprising if it attacks a popular book series). My german isn't good enough to read through all of them, and I didn't want to get the poor babelfish translation, but there you go.

So this is being brought up now because he's Pope!

Edit #3: For some Abortion Statistics see here (http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm), here (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm), here (http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html), and here (http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/statistics.asp).

Originally posted by Spider AL
Sounds suspiciously like another old ultra-feminist fallacy that "a woman has the right to walk naked into a biker bar and not be molested".

Now I'm going to hit you over the head with the UN charter. The UN established that

The chapter goes on to state that "reproductive rights" is a concept that embraces certain already recognized human rights. "These rights rest on the recognition of the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so, and the right to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health. It also includes the right of all to make decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence as expressed in human rights documents".
(my emphasis)

more than ten years ago. Linkage (http://www.un.org/Depts/escap/pop/journal/v09n4dn2.htm) provided.

Curiously, this means that the Vatican is in direct violation of several UN resolutions. Add to that the fact that the Vatican is presided over by a non-democratically elected government and you have almost the full range of criteria dubya employed when pulling off his Iraq scam.

To my mind everyone who's seen Ratzinger in action has seen him as the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In that office (almost for the entire time that John Paul II was Pope) his JOB is to "go after" the theologians who stray too far from the traditional teachings. It's his job to be a hardliner and "defender of the faith" etc.

You fail to consider that the very fact that he has been head of the Inquisition for so long is incriminating.

Of course Fundamentalists who aren't Catholic are going to hate him for disagreeing with their own beliefs, and atheists are going to dislike him for supporting a religion, period.

I like the fact that you bother to make the destinction between hate and dislike. Thumbs up to that.

But the rest of that paragraph is BS. While it is true that people who hold non-religious world views would probably dislike the Pope on general principle, this does not in any way invalidate the specific critisism leveled against any particular Pope. That one may agree or disagree with the institution of Pope does not detract from the current Pope's guilt or innocence of the crimes that he is accused of.

EDIT: Your linkage is screwed. Links 2 and 4 are from untrustworthy organisations.

Now I'm going to hit you over the head with the UN charter. The UN established that
You didn't catch my drift, Shadow. You said:

One has a right to choose whether or not one wants to be pregnant seperately from whether or not one wants to have sex.And I pointed out that- as in the old feminist fallacy- a woman ALSO has the right... to walk into a biker bar naked, and not to be molested in any way.

She has that right, under the law. But as I pointed out, reality isn't paper law, and since we all know that having sex can equal pregnancy no matter what the contraception used was, we must accept our share of responsibility for the outcome, whatever it might be.

Whether we have the foetus aborted or brought to term, we must always be aware that that organism is a result of our actions. We are not untouched by the consequences. They are our consequences. They belong equally to both parties in a consentual tryst.

WE are responsible for what happens after we have sex. Law or not, it's on our head. Rights? Heh.

Originally posted by Spider AL
Whether we have the foetus aborted or brought to term, we must always be aware that that organism is a result of our actions. We are not untouched by the consequences. They are our consequences. They belong equally to both parties in a consentual tryst.


I do agree with that.


As for the pope. As Kurgan said his previous record is, to an extent, mute.

However, one has to assume that the people who elected him did so, to a large extent, BASED on his previous record. So they must be expecting (or at the very least not opposed to) a similar style of "hard line" position.
And knowing that a lot of the world sees him as a hard line pope, you would think he might have been careful with the harry potter comments for a month or two... assuming he wanted to soften his image that is...

Kurgan, which pope was it that set up that commission into contraception that came back with the recommendation it should be allowed? You know, the recomendation JP2 totally ignored?
Was it the pope that died off quick?

The conservative Catholics get their man (and they are really the only ones that practice anyway), and the rest of the world gets to see the RCC for what it is...as they withdraw further from the modern world.

Looks like everybody wins.

Look, I used to be a church going Catholic, so I didn't exactly grow up with hate for that religion, or ANY religion for that matter. But the way this church deals with so many issues, be it priest scandal, missionaries & AIDs, contraception/abortion, homosexuality, or just general stupidity.... is truly dangerous.

This Pope's a lot more hardline than the old one. This means that more people will ignore the Catholic Church's opinion. As it should be.

has he died yet? I wasn't paying attention? :D