So the LotD is the 8th underworld, paradise is the 9th, so what are the other underworlds?
Probably other "Land of the deads"... maybe with another languages? I mean, in the 8th underworld they all speak... english? or maybe spanish (because they say lots of words in spanish, I don't know). Maybe in the other underworlds there are other languages or something like that :D
Yeah i was thinking that. Maybe there are 8 different LotDs and the everyone who dies goes to one of them. This may explain why there are'nt that many dead people in the 8th underworld considering the number of people who actually die in the world.
The 7th is probably Earth.
You think too much, get a gf pal :D
I guess you've even heard of 7th heaven. I don't know where I got that from, does somebody know?
I thought these underworlds had something to do with Dante's Divina Commedia (Divine Comedy?), where there are nine underworlds too.
I think that when you get sprouted you go to the 7th ect and you make your journey back up again except there is only 9 and once your at 9 you can't or don't want to go back
Tim Schafer himself said that when you get sprouted you go back to Earth to start over or somehting like that.
What?
Now that's something I don't like. At all. It takes away much of the feeling because now we know that Lola, Salvador, Olivia and even Hector get to start from a scratch. While it's great for the good guys, I think it completely ruins the sad and bitter feeling of the game. It basically means that any of the losses didn't mean a thing. Why should we mourn Lola or Salvador anymore?
No, Naomi, they wonґt be Salvador or Olivia again, in my opinion, they would be someone completely different.
It doesnґt make any sense that the other underworlds were other "lands of the deads" because when you are in the third its quite stupid to think you are going to pass to the ninth directly, there should be something in between. Perhabs underworlds for other spicies we donґt even know.
Even if they are born again as different people and don't have any memories of who they used to be, I hate the idea. The reason everyone was so sad to see Salvador and the others go was that they were gone. Perhaps I'm alone with my opinion, but having them start over in another world is a really lazy way to take away all the saddness. A much better option would have been that getting sprouted is a straight way to the Ninth Underworld.
"A much better option would have been that getting sprouted is a straight way to the Ninth Underworld."
All the contrary
Well, I'm ready to give you that one. It wasn't such a good idea.
I think I'm angry because when I played the game part of the sad and mysterious feeling came from that nobody knew what happens to those who are sprouted. Now that Schafer himself has apparently come up with such a disappointing response, I feel like I've been cheated.
Take your time and read this:
The Mayan Underworlds
The Nine Underworlds of the Cosmos and their corresponding levels of Consciousness
Now where are these Nine Underworlds? the modern person may ask. Being currently unable to observe this aspect of reality people have in recent centuries for the most part tended to dismiss such ancient myths of different worlds as mere myths or fantasies.[...]Thus, in the Far East Nine-storied pagodas are commonly occurring, among the Jews there were Nine doors to the holiest part of the Temple and there are Nine arms of the Hanukkah candelabra. Among the Muslims the Holy month of Ramadan is the Ninth month of the year and in Viking mythology the Cosmos was described as being composed by Nine worlds. Thus people in different parts of the world all symbolically expressed the holiness of the number Nine. Maybe then there is some kind of universal truth underlying this number, some profound reason that it has independently in different cultures come to be considered as holy.[...] When the Christian missionaries heard about the Nine Underworlds of the Maya they interpreted these as Hells, but this seems to be way off the mark. If these were Hells, or some locations below the surface of the earth as some have inferred, why then would the Mayan kings have climbed to the top of these supposed Hells to perform sacred rituals on the pyramids. Rather than a hierarchical structure of Hells the Mayan pyramids were viewed as World Mountains - symbols of the Cosmos. And since we ourselves are living in the Cosmos it thus seems more reasonable that the Underworlds are located right here in the physical world "Below" - where we ourselves are living our lives.
Why then Nine Underworlds? Why not just one Underworld? To answer this we need to look at the longer cycles of time described by the Maya and see how these conform to the facts and datings for key steps in Cosmic evolution provided by modern science.[...]Upon this the most basic of the Nine Underworlds, are then built eight other Underworlds each carrying and developing a special frame of consciousness for the life that it creates. In this way a hierarchical nine-leveled structure is created where lower levels of consciousness provide the foundation for new and higher levels. Each of these nine creation cycles thus gives rise to a specific Underworld and each of these Underworlds is characterised by a certain frame, or dimension, of consciousness. This frame of consciousness is then created in a series of thirteen steps, through the sequential influence of Thirteen Heavens. The beginnings of these sequences of Thirteen Heavens are marked by crucial events in cosmic evolution such as we know them from the datings of science
An article I read some time ago. I'll post more of it some time soon.
[I am aware that this doesn't exactly help much, but if you take into account that the game is based on the Mayan Mythology, it will become much clearer.]
EDIT: Added another part.
My theory is that when you get sprouted you don't die.. again. The roots of the plants just block your ability to move/talk but you still see and hear everything that's going on around you, you just can't react.
That was really interesting! Thanks for sharing that, Virus. I hope to see the rest sooner or later.
No problem.
And as for the sprouting thing, the melacholy created by the loss of those characters "killed" (I can't seem to find a better word, but let's just assume they are killed) adds a great feeling to the game; thus it is one of the many aspects GF has which are better left unanswered.
My Theory: What I think is that the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, underworlds are all areas in which people go to when they die. The reason of my theory is: Becuase usually the people there in the 8th underworld spoke pretty much the same (with a Spanish accent) and others who didn't speak spanish were probably just visitors and tourists. My Opinion: So i think that the 8th underworld is probably Mexico to California becase Hector Lemans was a big-time gangster and the Spanish dialects. (But it could be bigger). :rifle1: :blast5: (Much bigger). (Maybe). (Not Really). (But maybe).
Perhaps underworlds 1-8 are also LotD's, a soul journeys across them trying to get to the next world, but when they arrive in the next world, they can't remember the previous journey that brought them to the world they are currently in (memory loss?, I don't know..) So they journey again across the land,
Perhaps, like I said, each underworld is a LOtD, only with diffrerent locations, like the 8th underworld, with the sea of lament, maybe another underworld, instead of having a great sea in the middle, has a large desert instead
Those are my ideas....they suck lol
Anyone seen the Triplets of Belleville? If there were different kinds of LotDs, Belleville would be good one, it's like a French El Marrow.
I've seen Triplets of Belleville, which I really enjoyed watching but according to one of my friends, I didn't get the movie. She goes, "Hmm....it's an optimistic film for dealing with heavy topics like poverty." and I'm like, "That movie's about poverty?!"
I don't believe that the underworlds are other LotDs because that would take a lot of significance away from the 9th underworld being the land of eternal rest. I see the other worlds more to be...other plains of existense.
My theory is that when you get sprouted you don't die.. again. The roots of the plants just block your ability to move/talk but you still see and hear everything that's going on around you, you just can't react.
I agree. I believe that was the way it was in MeddlingMonk's (or was it CK's?) novelization of Grim Fandango. Hmm....I should try to look for that again. That wasn't half bad.
My theory is that when you get sprouted you don't die.. again. The roots of the plants just block your ability to move/talk but you still see and hear everything that's going on around you, you just can't react.
A bit OT, but that reminds of "totemization" in Zork: Grand Inquisitor. It was a form of punishment that was worse than death, it involved being trapped in a small disc where you couldn't move but could comprehend the environment and feel pain.
...that would suck.
But if when you're sprouted you do go back to the 7th Underworld with a lost memory, you'd still be a different person because you could be in a different environment to your previous life, with a different upbringing, etc. So basically that still means that all the death scenes are still just as sad.
Besides, they had to fit guns in there somehow, didn't they?
I've seen Triplets of Belleville, which I really enjoyed watching but according to one of my friends, I didn't get the movie. She goes, "Hmm....it's an optimistic film for dealing with heavy topics like poverty." and I'm like, "That movie's about poverty?!"
I don't believe that the underworlds are other LotDs because that would take a lot of significance away from the 9th underworld being the land of eternal rest. I see the other worlds more to be...other plains of existense.
I agree. I believe that was the way it was in MeddlingMonk's (or was it CK's?) novelization of Grim Fandango. Hmm....I should try to look for that again. That wasn't half bad.
There a Grim Fandango book! OMFG! Link!
There a Grim Fandango book! OMFG! Link!
You can download it here. (
http://home.alltel.net/cf14312/) As far as I know it's not an official novelization, only fanwork, but that doesn't make it any less good. I really recommend it.
Wow, that's an interesting article!
The Maya intrigue me deeply. Their symbols and references to death are fascinating.
7th Underworld is the Land of the Living, or Earth. Not exactly sure about Underworlds 1-6 though. Perhaps some sort of creation and evolution of the soul? o_o
I'm sure there'd be Mayan historical texts about it somewhere.
It talks about it in Chapter 2 of the strategy guide. I can't be bothered to type up the whole thing, but here's a relevant excerpt:
Depending on how one died and which deities claimed your soul, you could end up in one of a number of underworlds. Those who died in battle were property of the sun god, for example, and went to his underworld. Those who died by drowning went to the paradise of Tlaloc, the water god.
But souls unclaimed by a particular deity were forced to undertake an arduous four-year journey through the Eighth Underworld, Mictlan, the land of the fleshless, until they could rest at last in the Ninth Underworld.
Oooooooooooh.
<3 That helps. How interesting.