if yoda and palptaine duelled
in the OT, Palpatine for sure. Yoda has grown weak. in the PT, don't know for sure. In his prime though, I'm sure Yoda coulda kicked anyones ass. :D
Yoda for sure. Palpatine wasn't THAT strong. Vader easily threw him over a ledge while missing an arm. :p In the OT tho, like Sithy said, Yoda probably wouldn't last long.
Originally posted by ZBomber
Vader easily threw him over a ledge while missing an arm. yeah but anakin/vader was the chosen one, of course he could throw palpatine over the ledge, it was his destiny.
Ok I will re-phrase.
Yoda in his prime and palpatine in his prime, who would win?
I think palpatine.
Yoda any day of the week i still say yoda
Palpatine.
He obviously pwned Yoda. Who lives in a swamp and who is king of the universe?
Yoda.
You think that if Yoda didn't want to stay in the swamp he would have stayed there? Even at that, where you are staying is irrelevant.
He is the greatest Jedi. Of course he is going to kick Palpatines arse.
Originally posted by idel
He is the greatest Jedi. Of course he is going to kick Palpatines arse. Then why didn't he?
Originally posted by Prime
Then why didn't he? he's an old little midget frog. He could barely muster the strength to take out dooku. He's getting old man.
Originally posted by Prime
Palpatine.
He obviously pwned Yoda. Who lives in a swamp and who is king of the universe?
LMAO. So damned true. Im looking forward to seeing what palpy might get up to in ep3 :p
mtfbwya
I'm saying yoda --- never dis kermit. Or his cousins
(I like yoda really)
Vader easily threw him over a ledge while missing an arm
but vader was wearing a rubber suit and palpy was doing lightning. That's why he could pick him up. Otherwise palpatine (I can type the whole name ;) ) is just a little old man. Sure he's the head sith, but without force powers he's small, old and ugly --- very ugly.
The only thing that palpy can really do is lightning. Yoda would absorb the lightning and reflect it. Palpy can't do much else (let's check ep3 though there is the moment in the trailer when i think palpy is holding a lightsaber )
Yoda in his prime!? Yoda would kick Palpatine's bum!
If yoda in his old age did the things he did yoda in his prime couldve done just about anything.
Yoda for sure. Even in his old age. They were both old anyway. Palpy didnt have a lightsaber at the time of the OT anyway since he didnt use it against Luke. Yoda woulda used his lightsaber or if he didnt have one used Luke's. Cause Luke would have definetely been there.
Originally posted by Prime
Palpatine.
He obviously pwned Yoda. Who lives in a swamp and who is king of the universe?
exactly.
I say Yoda won because if he hadn't, he wouldn't live in Episode IV and V, and VI.
Originally posted by Evil Dark Jedi
Palpy didnt have a lightsaber at the time of the OT anyway since he didnt use it against Luke.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. I suspect that the reason Palpy used lightning on Luke was to inflict the most pain, rather than the most damage. Why slice a guy in two when you can slow cook him?
Originally posted by Revan Solo
I say Yoda won because if he hadn't, he wouldn't live in Episode IV and V, and VI.
It is if they did duel. Not if they have dueled. ;)
I see your point Shok_Tinoktin. Though Luke coulda forced him to use his lightsaber when he was electricuting him.
What are you meaning?:confused:
We never saw Palpatine fight with a lightsaber. Most probably will in Ep III.
Anyway they are the most powerful Force users. Oh well, "the dark side is a quicker answer" , so Palp wins
Originally posted by Revan Solo
What are you meaning?:confused:
What I mean is he coulda pulled his lightsaber to him. Then threw it at palpy. He would have to stop the lightning to stop it. he would of dodged. Luke would have stood up. Got his saber and forced Palatine to use his saber. If he had one.
If he could pull his saber to himself, he would have. My theory is that the excruciating pain associated with the lightning made him unable to concentrate enough to call on the force.
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
If he could pull his saber to himself, he would have. My theory is that the excruciating pain associated with the lightning made him unable to concentrate enough to call on the force. not to mention electrocution... causes loss of motor function. His moving was caused by the electricity running through him.
Yoda's fast moves are caused by electricity?
Originally posted by Revan Solo
Yoda's fast moves are caused by electricity?
They were not saying that. They were saying that when Luke was jolting around when the emporer was electrifying him, is because of the electricity. I'm not sure of the science behind it, but i think it's the same as if you get an electric shock you jolt.
(someone correct me if i'm wrong.)
As Yoda has said, Yoda: Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you. Yoda can see much fear in Palp so Yoda could beat him! ;)
Yoda in his prime was way to fast for Palpatine. If it was based on lightsaber skills, then Yoda hands down. If based on Force powers, Yoda wins yet again. He was probably the strongest creature in the Force. I think the real question is: How long would Palpatine last against Yoda? :D
Originally posted by Prime
Who lives in a swamp and who is king of the universe?
<sings> who lives in a pineapple under the sea? </sings>
:p
im sure there was a spoiler pic for episode 3 of a defeated Yoda....
Yoda...If paply didnt have his giant army Yoda would kick his butt all over the galaxy :). + Plus who spends his time meditating while the other just plots ;) :xp:
Yoda would win in his 'good' times but in the OT he was just really weak.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. I suspect that the reason Palpy used lightning on Luke was to inflict the most pain, rather than the most damage. Why slice a guy in two when you can slow cook him?
Dark Side power of Force lightening requires hatred and fury to fuel. By shooting bolts of force lightening, Emperor P was releasing his rage on Luke. I picture it more like how a domestic cat kills a mouse. It doesn't just kill right away. Oh no. It has to maim limbs first. It takes pleasure in it. This is how I see Emperor P in his actions.
In his arrogance, he pays no attention to the mind of Vader, and how Anakin was fighting back. Vader turns, and chooses to bring balance back to the force.
With that said, Emperor P in his prime vs. Yoda in his prime? Yoda all the way. Emperor P was arrogant in all things. As Darth Tyranus in TPM, he was arrogant and overlooked the coming of the Jedi to Naboo, overlooked the innovation of the Gungans, overlooked the ineptitude of the droid army. Yep he overlooked lots of things. He believed his Zabrak apprentice would never fail. And yet not only does Maul fail, but he also mistakenly spills out the presence of the Sith, when the Jedi believed they were dead.
Yoda was not arrogant (or at least not as much). Yoda doesn't tend to overlook things. Because of this, he would wipe the floor with Emperor P
Originally posted by jedispy
As Darth Tyranus in TPM, he was arrogant and overlooked the coming of the Jedi to Naboo, overlooked the innovation of the Gungans, overlooked the ineptitude of the droid army. Yep he overlooked lots of things.
Assuming you mean Darth Sidious, I'm going to have to disagree with you. He actually foresaw all of this happening, and planned for it. The victory on Naboo showed people that he was able to take action, and that would make it easier for him to get his emergency powers. He no longer had use for the Trade Federation, so he didn't mind if ther failed (not to mention the fact that Sidious' betrayal helped them go to Dooku, which also helped him get his emergency powers). Basically, Palpatine was playing them all for fools, and they all did exactly what he wanted.
Originally posted by jedispy
He believed his Zabrak apprentice would never fail. And yet not only does Maul fail, but he also mistakenly spills out the presence of the Sith, when the Jedi believed they were dead.
As far as I see it, Maul's death was the only thing that might have gone against Palpatine's wishes. However, I suspect that Palpatine already intended to trade Maul in for Tyrannus, so he was sending Maul to his death in order to cast fear and doubt on the Jedi. The timeline, as far as I know, is ambiguous enough that Dooku may have become Tyrannus right before or after Maul's death, which would make it possible that Maul was intentionally sent to his death. Almost forgot to mention, the dialogue between Sidious and Maul shows that they intended to "spill out the presence of the Sith".
That said, yes, overconfidence was the Emperor's weakness. As far as the topic, I can't really decide because I've never seen Palpatine in a fight.
Errata: Yes I am stupid. I meant to say Sidius, not Tyranus. <Jedispy slaps his own wrists>
I see it this way, by the time of AOTC, Yoda had had 700 + years of lightsaber training. (Yes I know that he was 800+ in age, but for argument sake, let's just say 700+ since 800 > 700. It's a conservative number). At the time of ROTS (yes that's S as in Sith), Palpatine would be around 60-80 years old at best.
He could barely muster the strength to take out dooku.
Yoda wasn't trying to kill Dooku. He was trying to capture him. Same reason why the U.S. didn't kill Hussein <sp?>. Capture the leader, question him/her, and find out as much as possible. (Let's not get into U.S. foreign policy just because I brought that up. O.k?)
Yoda sensed the dark side in Darth T. Just as before in TPM, he knew that the Sith were back. Now whether or not he knew Dooku was a sith was another matter. All the more reason for capturing him, not killing him. Yoda would have succeeded too except for the fact that he had to save Kenobi and Skywalker from being crushed.
Basing Yoda's dueling ability on that one fight is not enough to call it whether he'd beat Emperor P or not. Heck, we don't even know who would have won in a duel between Darth M and Darth T (ooh!!! New Thread topic!!!)
Still, I say based on yoda's duel ability at 800, and the fact that Palpatine can't possibly live as long as him, Yoda be da mac daddy.
Originally posted by jedispy
Yoda wasn't trying to kill Dooku.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
LOL. Well I was just trying to clarify. There's a difference between Yoda dueling Dooku, and Kenobi Dueling Vader. Elderly Ben was no match for Cyborg Vader. The duel was over before it began. Whereas Yoda and Dooku were both old men (for their respective species).
Anywho, Yoda would have beaten Emperor P in a duel.
Originally posted by jedispy
LOL. Well I was just trying to clarify. There's a difference between Yoda dueling Dooku, and Kenobi Dueling Vader. Elderly Ben was no match for Cyborg Vader. The duel was over before it began. Whereas Yoda and Dooku were both old men (for their respective species).
Anywho, Yoda would have beaten Emperor P in a duel.
I agree with you 100%.
In my opinion Yoda has always been in his prime, for example he beat Dooku without a blink of an eye, and is 850 and probably wise and knows how things work....Palpatine however, as for age 850 and 50-60, achieved "prime" in the period where Episode III takes place and of course we know how Yoda vs Palpatine's duel ended. Yoda was beaten badly and forced to run into hiding to Dagobah system....:) so my vote goes to Palpatine
I'm going to have to agree with you on Yoda's prime. He gained wisdom as he got older, so I would say that Palpatine and Yoda were each in their prime at the same time, Episode III. I'm still going to wait and see how it all plays out before I committ to one side or the other.
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
I'm going to have to agree with you on Yoda's prime. He gained wisdom as he got older, so I would say that Palpatine and Yoda were each in their prime at the same time, Episode III. Yoda was past his prime in ep 3. :\
His prime was about 400 years I'd say, which was WELL before the movies. :p
Well, to be honest its difficult to really defend either position, because we have little to no clue what his capabilities were before the movies. The reason that I assume ep. 3 to be his prime, is taking into consideration both physical capabilities and mental capabilities. He undeniably gains knowledge and wisdom as time goes on, so he is always getting stronger in that respect. Physical abilities are much harder to determine. I assume that through the force he is getting the strength, mobility, etc. that he always had, so I assume that his physical abilities are hardly (if at all) deteriorating as he gets older (in combat any way). Its possible that he was even more impressive before, but we will never really know. My own belief is that ep. 3 is his prime, and it stands to some measure of reason.
The problem so far with this conversation is that we're arguing physical ability. If only taking physical ability into consideration, then you would have to say the following.
Playnet Myrkrr (You know, the ysalamiri homeworld) is the setting. Palpatine vs. Yoda based on prequel era. Palpatine would win in a second. Why?
1. He is taller than Yoda. His reach alone is an unbelievable advantage
2. The gravity of Myrkrr, while undocumented, can be assumed to be closer to what is considered "human" homeworlds (i.e. Coruscant, Corelia, Alderaan, Naboo, etc...) Palpatine is human, so this would be most suitable to his natural development. Yoda's species is unknown. To me he seems to be some sort of reptile (green skin, sharp teeth, talon like hands and feet. This of course is unsupported). Reptiles on human worlds tend to be sluggish, being able to speed up when needed. Therefore Palpatine would have an advantage over Yoda by sheer natural development.
Now, that's if we're just talking physical ability. However in a true duel between the two, there is this little thing we call the FORCE. Yoda is more powerful in the Force than Palpatine. Any force attacks made by the enemy, Yoda has the ability to not only absorb such attacks, but reverse and repost them.
Using the Force, Yoda goes from slow and sluggish to fast, aggressive, and primed.
Now of course we've never seen Darth Sidious fight, so it remains to be seen. However, he did train Darth Maul. Based on what we see with Darth Maul, Sidious must be impressive. Maul was able to use a difficult weapon (dual lightsaber is more difficult to master than single blade) and not only hold off two jedi, but kill the one who was a master. He was well trained.
Still, with that said, my vote goes to Yoda. However, come May 19, we will all see who would truly win
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
*clip* When someone is in their prime, that is their top physical condition. Yoda has to use a cane to walk around, definitely not his top physical condition, true he's wiser, but he's also much weaker than he used to be.
Okay, thats it. One word we were using differently. Yes, he was more physically able far before ep 3. Nonetheless, I get the impression that through the force he was able to reach a level of physical capability that is at least nearly what he could reach in his prime. His mental abilities however, are improving all the time. In a duel, it seems logical to me that he has the best chances around ep 3. The reason I say 3 instead of 6, is that being alone in a swamp seems to cause him to lose it a bit. But yet again, I'm going to say that I need to see ep 3 before I make up my mind about this.
But the force doesn't make him stronger.
Originally posted by InsaneSith
But the force doesn't make him stronger.
You don't think so? Before and after his duel with Dooku, he barely had the strength to stand, but during the duel...
Like I said before, its basically impossible to defend any position on when he was at his most capable, since we have seen him in action only once, and thus have no comparison. We can only guess what he was like in combat at age 400 or 900 or 7, etc.
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
You don't think so? Before and after his duel with Dooku, he barely had the strength to stand, but during the duel... That doesn't mean anything about his strength, for all we know his attacks could have been incredibly weak, but because of his speed he was able to keep Dooku on the move and such. When we saw him parrying with Dooku, he was very weak, losing strength.
I'm not saying his attacks were necessarily stronger, but it takes strength to be able to jump like that. The fact that he goes from barely able to walk to leaping around, implies to me that in at least some form, his strength is enhanced by the force. Also, if I'm not mistaken, they do lock sabers, and its not like Dooku was able to knock him around. I extrapolated from that the idea that most of his capability in combat flows from the force, and this seems to improve with age, so I imagine the most able Yoda to be ep 3 Yoda.