The Story: (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041211%2F1604280438.htm&sc=1110)

Personaly ever since Colubine, school rules have been way too strict. Problably the teachers and principals have nothing better to do.

Zero tolerence makes zero since.

Scisors are a school supply.

Read and discuss.

Better ban pencils too...

Originally posted by TK-8252
Better ban pencils too...

pencils could be used as a stabing weopon too, a BIBLE could be used as a weopon if you bash'em hard enough into the skulls of your fellow human beings.

That is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone involved in that poor girl going to jail should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. They HANDCUFFED a 4th grader and took her to jail for having SCISSORS for chrissakes.

If they intend to ban scissors as they are potential weapons they better ban pens and pencils, because those are just as easy to stab somebody with.

Freakin people these days.

Any fourth grader who planned to kill someone with scissors would have been in a mental institute by now.

This is rediculous, considering the fact that in the vast majority of schools, scissors are a mandatory supply and that she is only in fourth grade.

that transcends idiocy, what the hell did they think they were doing?

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
pencils could be used as a stabing weopon too, a BIBLE could be used as a weopon if you bash'em hard enough into the skulls of your fellow human beings. both instances I would know about personally. *rubs head and hand*

*sighs*


anyway. This zero tolerance stuff is majoratively BS.

I remember one story about some straight A student being expelled to one of those "secondary schools" (read: dead f**king end) because a plastic butterknife had been left in the bed of his pickup truck after he helped his grandmother move. This zero tolerance stuff is bull. I carry a swiss army knife just about everywhere I go, and they aren't going to stop me from carrying it at school. Fortunately for me, I'm part of my school's tech crew, so I'm allowed (not technically, but the pricipal allows it) to carry mine around.

At my middle school, defending yourself during a fight could easily land you in major hot water. But after hearing about this I'm not sure I had it all that bad.

Where I live, you need scissors at school. Banning them is completely rediculous. And what they did to that girl is equally rediculous. Handcuffing her, suspending her for five days...

That is absolutely ridiculous and cruel. She 's ten years old, for God's sake! So she had some scissors in her pack. So what if she forgot the rules. Had she threatened anyone? NO! Had she hurt anyone? NO! I would understand a polite reminder that scissors are not allowed (which is a stupid rule, anyway), but cuffing her, and suspending her. Absolutely uncalled for. I despise for kids, or anyone for that matter, to be treated wrong, and this just really pi$$es me off. :mad:


Sorry for the rant. :o

Hang on, don't most schools have only safty scissors anyway? you can't cut with them let alone stab someone! pencils and compasses on the other hand can do someone a nasty injury. With two pencils and an elastic band... well I'll let you work that out. and as for the handcuffing? why? handcuffs are used to restrain (not just for fun) I hardly see that they needed to use handcuffs to restrain a 10 yr old girl, were they scared she would do a runner or what?

Has the world gone mad? no, don't answer that i won't like the reply.

@Jon: Why the cuffs? Because some people are cruel and thoughtless. That's why. If that was my kid, I would take her out of that school, and get the dumb@$$es that cuffed her fired. What were they thinking?

Things like this make me glad I'm sheltered from the stupidity of society. :D

Perhaps they were just covering their backs to escape blame from above if something did turn bad. It's really the people on top in charge of the rules that are responsible - they overreact because school violence is such a touchy subject with the parents. Foolish, but that's the way people are. :p

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
Things like this make me glad I'm sheltered from the stupidity of society. :D

Perhaps they were just covering their backs to escape blame from above if something did turn bad. It's really the people on top in charge of the rules that are responsible - they overreact because school violence is such a touchy subject with the parents. Foolish, but that's the way people are. :p

I agree. It's things like this that make me so thankful to have been homeschooled. I've never had to deal with so much of the stuff that folks put up with in public school. :)

I heard on the radio that the police chief apologized and said the cops were only following protocol. The radio guy said: "When I heard this story I knew I was missing something. But nope, they're just idiots."

I don't know guys, she did have scissors, and they could kill someone..........:dozey:
There is something seriously wrong with the school system when something as simple as bringing scissors to school, can get you put in jail. And if the police officers had ANY common sense they wouldn't have arrested her in the first place. What were they thinking? Oh, wait, they weren't.
Personaly ever since Colubine, school rules have been way too strict
Yeah, i'm from colorado, and i hear about it all the time. My school, which is a little town northeast of denver, even put in cameras all over the school. In the first place they weren't even working for the first year and second where in the world did they get the money? Oh well, thats just the direction this country's going......acting before thinking.

I don't think schools got safer in any way. I mean, if my goal is to kill somebody, I can do it once he's outside of school and away from their security systems. It makes little difference.

Unless they have several police officers with loaded handguns patrolling the halls, their safety measures mean NOTHING in those schools.

If a kid wants to come in and shoot up the school, they're not going to try and sneak a shotgun in under their coat and go through half of the day before they whip it out and go nuts.

Mostly it's just an attempt at an illusion of safety. If we add a lot of "security" measures then people will feel safe. It's not actually DOING anything, but we THINK it's doing something.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
Mostly it's just an attempt at an illusion of safety. If we add a lot of "security" measures then people will feel safe. It's not actually DOING anything, but we THINK it's doing something.

heeheehee, Department of Homeland Security anyone?

My high school has officers with guns.. but I don't think they're loaded...

:o

I never really had to put up with this kind of stupid crap as a public school kid... cos kids did actually bring guns into school...

creepy now that I think back on it. But it was funny at the time...


:D

Originally posted by ET Warrior
If a kid wants to come in and shoot up the school, they're not going to try and sneak a shotgun in under their coat and go through half of the day before they whip it out and go nuts.

Actually, yes they would, at least according to things I've read on situations like this...

As for the article: Holy ****. 10-year old handcuffed, arrested and suspended from school for bringing scissors to school? The teachers called the POLICE?! For THAT?! O_O

Originally posted by Redwing
Actually, yes they would, at least according to things I've read on situations like this...
actually... most people that shoot up schools go right into it. No way they wait until after lunch so they can have their precious soy burger. ;)

I dont know how long most kids would hang onto their gun before using it, but one thing is for sure: if a kid wants to come in and shoot up the school, they're not going to try and sneak a pair of scissors in under their coat and go through half of the day before they whip it out and go nuts.

I wouldn't go nuts with scissors :dozey:

Seriously, that's lame. If someone wanted to kill his buddies, they'll bring something that can actually be used to kill.

Either the people in charge are extremely paranoid, or it is another "control" thing.

there are a lot of cases where students said somthing and didn't mean it and got in big trouble for it. I saw on the news about a kid who got suspended for bringing a nail clipper.

QUESTIONS FOE EVERY ONE:
what do the powered people expect to acomplish by punishing those who are realy no threat?

My guess is they want to make themselves look good by "catching" them.

Just yesterday, a high school in colorado had a fatal stabbing. Two studets were fighting and the other pulled a knife and killed the other. Now why can't they find a knife and put this kid who brought the knife in some juvy hall, but they sure can arrest little girls to jail.

Police imcompetence. plus, little girls are easier to get a hold of.

Originally posted by Feanaro
Just yesterday, a high school in colorado had a fatal stabbing. Two studets were fighting and the other pulled a knife and killed the other. Now why can't they find a knife and put this kid who brought the knife in some juvy hall, but they sure can arrest little girls to jail.

they don't realy care. They just want to punish the little girls who bring scisors to make it look like they are doing something. Scare the potential weopon bearers maybie.

isn't it strange how the real threats get through and harmles people get all the heat? Even stranger they blame the video games instead of the education system?

I wouldn't be surprised... this is an outrage, but I stopped trusting US police ages ago...

Once we had a "choices day" which consisted of going to various class rooms to listen to presentations. For example "Self-esteem", "drug stories as told by teens", etc.

Well, I went to this law/police thing and this cop spent an hour telling us about how we'd go to jail if we trespassed, wrote on walls, etc. She did touch on drugs and shoplifting, but that's it for serious stuff.

As an example she mentioned two people who got jailed for sneaking into school at night and throwing a football to each others. Someone protested that it wasn't fair and some "adult" chick cried out "life's not fair" (who else hates that cliche:p)?

Rape, murder, robbery? Nah, not important. Writing on walls? Throwing a football in the school grounds after closing time? Skipping school? Better send a policewoman down to pass around handcuffs and show a video from a Youth Detention Centre to scare kids away from doing that...:rolleyes:

On the other hand, this friend of mine (15) got raped and the cops never even cared to bring the guy who raped her into custody (not a matter of insufficient evidence, mind you). They litteraly did nothing.

So at least they've got their priorities straight.

Bottom line: As cool a country as it is, the USA's a goddamned police state.

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
Either the people in charge are extremely paranoid, or it is another "control" thing.

there are a lot of cases where students said somthing and didn't mean it and got in big trouble for it. I saw on the news about a kid who got suspended for bringing a nail clipper.

QUESTIONS FOE EVERY ONE:
what do the powered people expect to acomplish by punishing those who are realy no threat?

My guess is they want to make themselves look good by "catching" them.

Off the cuff response [sorry, didn't realize the pun I was making until after posting!]:

1) To make an example of them. If they appear to be the gestapo, they figure they'll scare the serious offenders from trying anything. "Wow, if even a small thing like that couldn't be gotten away with, etc"

OR

2) They're idiots who are paranoid, and wanting to keep up the image of safety (like someone else said) so the do stupid things that end up not accomplishing much.


Sounds like a case of overreaction to me here though.


The thing about Columbine is that none of these types of security things would make any difference. At columbine they had security cameras even. Sure, it may have saved a few more lives, but they wouldn't have prevented it. I mean the two guys killed a bunch of people then offed themselves. If you're going to kill yourself anyway, then you've got nothing to lose. Those kinds of characters really can't be reasoned with. You'd have to catch them before they acted (how are you going to do that unless they come to school with the bombs and guns in their bag or something?) or while they are acting (with luck, wound them and take them into custody).

Even stranger they blame the video games instead of the education system?
With all due respect, Mr. Frog, 3 000+ studies prove violent video games played by kids make those kids more violent. I've never seen a study showing that kids learning about World War II in school get more violent...

3 000+ studies prove violent video games played by kids make those kids more violent.Three-thousand plus independent studies which have offered incontrivertable proof eh? These I have to see. Let me see them.

They just want to punish the little girls who bring scisors to make it look like they are doing something.Exactly my thoughts, frog.


It's a sad fact, but our punitive justice systems are only there to do two things:

1. keep law-abiding people in line.
2. Prevent large-scale mayhem that may disrupt government.

Our justice system does nothing for prevention. Our police are not ALLOWED to prevent crime. The system is weighted in favour of criminals when it comes to prevention. We have many laws to stop "harassment" of criminals, but (inversely proportionately) few laws that protect the victim from BECOMING a victim. The police (in my country, certainly) arrest very few muggers, rapists, burglars... They do penalise motorists and smokers, though. Oh, and they beat peaceful anti-war demonstrators over the head when possible.

These are relatively law abiding people. Why crack down on law-abiding people? Because criminals are only a minor annoyance to our government. Muggers and burglars don't have any negative impact on the economy, far from it. People who have been robbed have to go out and buy new items. That's why they're not a focus for our law-enforcement. But if ORDINARY law abiding people started stepping out of line, the government would be impacted. That's why they crack their whips when we show signs of independent thought.

Three-thousand plus independent studies which have offered incontrivertable proof eh? These I have to see. Let me see them.
I didn't say plus independent studies. I said 3000 studies. And perfect? Probably not.

I'll show you what I have as soon as I can. It's not much more than a source for what I already said, though.

But think about it, a lot of studies are done globally all the time. 3000 isn't really an unrealistic number, in my opinion.

The police (in my country, certainly) arrest very few muggers, rapists, burglars... They do penalise motorists and smokers, though. Oh, and they beat peaceful anti-war demonstrators over the head when possible.
In Norway, a person can only go to jail for rape if the victim offers resistance:rolleyes: . And even if he does go to jail, it's most often for only two years or so, then he's set free.

However, there's a large-scale campaign to prevent speeding and other traffic violations. The fine for speeding is now... what was it, $300? I'm not excaggerating here.

So speeding=bad. Rape=OK if the victim is scared of you (which "never" happens, huh):confused: . Add to that the people who are allowed to go out of jail temporarily for "good citizenship" or whatever, only to go commit some heinous crime...

Video games don't make people more violent. No matter how many "studies" are done. Only someone that is dangerously mentally-unstable could truely be effected by violent video games.

*Cough* (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145463)

If a 5-year-old gets GTA: Vice City, he won't be unaffected by it. To say the least.

"Studies" in quotation marks? Studies that disagree with you are still studies, friend.

The "only the weak are affected" argument does not hold water, to be frank. War games and FPS games do soften your perception of what fighting is like. People who don't play such games are far more emotional about war in reality than people who don't. Proven fact.

Good idea linking to an excellent, well-researched paper that opposes your view (joking, you obviously meant the ensuing discussion).

Agreed.
Plus games don't tell you to get violent or hurt anybody nor do they make you do negative things. One could get ideas rom games but the person has total control and choice of what they do, not video games.
Plain wrong and contradicting. First it's said that "well, they're mentally unstable", and then it's said that they're "in 100% control"? Wake up.

And violent games do tell you "this is neat". No game cover has the phrase "this game is horrific and thus sucks".

As for the "well, their parents should have seen it" argument: With all due respect, if there was a 100% surefire way to tell that a person is going to commit suicide or murder, I'd be a lot happier. But in most cases, it's dang near impossible, even if you have a degree in psychology and is a veteran in the field (ask anyone who's been a therapist for several decades).

And thus, many people, not just the "weak", as you put it, TK, start associating guns, bombs, and conflict with fun, because they've played it in a game.

Take a person playing RTS games. He'll start thinking fighter planes are cool (I do). Play skiing games and you'll think skiing is cool. Play a soccer game and it could get you interested in soccer. That's not to say he'll necessarily be violent, or a skier, or a soccer player, but it certainly means he's affected by it. Basic psychology: Associating things with other things, as proven by numerous people, including Pavlov and his drolling doggie.

And face it, those kids at Columbine wouldn't have gone on a killing spree without violent video games and movies. Why? They wouldn't have seen a gun fire. But their unstable brains started associating guns with fun and thus... I'm not saying games are to blame for those two being unstable in the first place, but you see what I'm getting at, right? A lot of children who finally snap and kill themselves or others are thrown over the edge by movies or games glorifying suicide or homicide. You simply have to admit that, no matter how much you love violent movies/games. Take this example from the article you was so kind as to link to:

On February 25, 2004, police in the United Kingdom found the body of fourteen year-old Stefan Pakeerah. He was beaten to death by a claw hammer and stabbed, it was later discovered that Stefan was murdered by his best friend, seventeen year-old Warren LeBlanc. The two had been playing a video game called “Manhunt”, in which both the claw hammer and knife are used to kill enemies. The game is Stefan’s father, Patrick Pakeerah calls for a ban on this game because of the death of his son Police believed that the two were acting out a scene in the game and it went too far.
I'm not saying the game made him unstable. But I'm saying it made him kill that friend of his because of what he saw in the game. It'd be a too huge co-incidence otherwise, wouldn't it? "Oh, it's identical to that game I played before that? Geez, I didn't realize!" Nah.

I'm not saying we ban violent games and movies. BUT

- Follow ESBR ratings, they're there for a reason. Don't give Doom to a ****ing seven year old. Don't take your two year old to see the Passion of the Christ. It's amazing how idiotic people get...

- Get better at psychology. As it is boys aren't allowed to be sensitive and nobody has a clue as to what therapy or psychiatric hospitals are all about - most have a completely skewed picture (like I did before I got admitted).

Also, you only focus on serious stuff like murder. What about less serious things like martial arts being acted out because of a game? Simply too many cases exist to deny that. And you don't have to be unstable or "weak" or whatever to beat someone up, you know;) . Just pissed.

This debate could be done to death, but since it's pretty off-topic, I'll refrain from continuing it. *Note this is not admitting you're right* :p