Ok, the admins at the AotC TC forums have locked another one of my threads instead of responding to my issues, so, I'm reposting here.
Ok, I got a problem with this. AotCTC has been totally pushing the "don't edit our work" line but then you turn around and flat out use OJP material without following the OJP guidelines. Someone even stripped out all the OJP documentation from the ojp_vehicles_002.pk3!
That's just not cool. Now, I actually know you guys, so I'm not going to demand that you immediately fix the problem or I'll try to get the demo removed from the file servers, but this needs to be corrected for any future releases.
I imagine you guys just didn't know, but it's pretty damn disrespectful to do this when one of the team leaders is ON THE OJP MODERATOR STAFF and then didn't bother to tell the me or Phunk about this.
If you have a problem get hold of me I dont know anything about this, please get hold of me via email and we shall discuss further.
so all this time about majinrevan reskining the jedistarfighter and republic gunship, all this time aotctc was complaining. they were also using others work. bastards.
Look I have no idea what Razor is going on about, and christ I should know. If you are going on about the demo, it aint in there, all the stuff is ours and made by Marz, and who is this OJP Co-Team leader, it sure as hell aint Ch1, is it?
Check the files in your own demo release package. I installed it to a new seperated folder just to see what was in it and....
1. \GameData\aotctc\ojp_vehicles_002.pk3
2. various OJP code aspects are referenced in the AotC TC. These are directly stated at least once in the readme.
And, yes, Chosen One is on the OJP moderator staff at the request of himself and Unique1.
Now, I have no problem with you guys using OJP material. Sharing is the point of the OJP. However, OJP has requirements for using OJP material in publically released mods and none of those requirements were met.
Odd I never knew about this
Oh, and since the other thread got locked, Anikin, just bacause you did it for free dosen't mean we have to like it. Just to let you know. You seemed to infer that we did in your last post.
Ok this is a good point. Anikin has destroid many a good remodle of some of the work donated to him and its getting realy anoying. Don't be so arrogent! SHARE!
I think this thread is a check and mate.
Just keep the flames down guys, and no one gets hurt. I don't want to see this get locked. Yet.
I concur. Let's keep this civil...
I havent seen anything bad from you in the past razorace, thats why I believe you have a really good point here. From the looks of it the people of AotC TC are trying to silence you. I dont think that would be a good idea, plus it will make them look even worse. I think they need to try to talk about it, then trying to cover it up. I think its very rude for them to tell people not to use their work and then use yours with out asking. Also plus them trying to silence you from their forums, isnt good also.
I havent seen anything bad from you in the past razorace, thats why I believe you have a really good point here.
Not to mention its probably frustrating as hell to deal with them now that thier heads are stuck in the sand trying to hide.
It seems to me (and I think I've said this before) that there needs to be clearer chains of organization in AOTC. HOWEVER - I strongly concur with Kurgan and the others. Whatever you feel on this, respect what Razor asked to start with and don't turn this into a flame war. I hope these issues can be worked out within the AotC team, otherwise it'll be disastrous for community unity (as we tended to see in the JK2 community, where it turned into a flaming war of "I hate your guts"). Seriously, let's try to keep to the point of the projects: fun and common base for coding and stuff (in the case of OJP).
Anything else, to be perfectly honest, isn't worth it - simply because of the damage it'll do to the community. I am extremely supportive of OJP and everything Razor does - I am also supportive of Anakin's efforts to keep things civil between the two groups, and can only applaud those who have been trying to be polite. As I said, I think the biggest change needs to happen within the AotC team - but as I'm not privy to that, that's all up to you guys.
I haven't seen any flames yet... I do have some extra marshmellows on hand in case it gets nasty though. :-D
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet
I haven't seen any flames yet... I do have some extra marshmellows on hand in case it gets nasty though. :-D
LOL
Originally posted by Anakin
Odd I never knew about this
:rolleyes:
This will have to be taken up with Chosen One as he compiled the Demo and files.
doesn't explain though why all those topics are locked..might do you guys better to solve it at your side
They are locked because they become off topic and move away from its original post. and then people act like jerks.
They were locked after one single post.
I don't beleive that. Several of those topics were still on topic, but were just being negative about the TC.
I've also seen others' and my posts get deleted from the TC's forum threads when they were negative in any way (including constructive critizism).
Razor, take my advice. Drop the damn partnership. They have been nothing but trouble for you guys.
LOL. Sora, don't start it again. If they don't want me to distribute stuff I editing of theirs, that's their choice.
:fett:
Paternership, well that really never took off, Im not sure we really got around to it and sorted things out. As I keep on saying you guys have really got it in for us at the moment and there are processes in place to make things move along smoother, ok you were expecting all bells and whistles etc, and yes so was I. Im not going to make excuses for the demo, but the code was great you all wanted more than we gave you, and this will be rectified. I dont want to let the community down and im sure as hell aint going to beaten down by some of the a-holes that have been posting on this forums and others. I have had a LOT of support from other people emailing me telling me how supportive they are and 'dont let the basterds get you down' . Im not arguing the fact that this file was in the demo, I looked in there and yes it there, hell shoot me and do something but stop the screwing around with the bitching and crap that I am taking at the moment, this was some week off the TC and all of this, I have taken the day off to sort out stuff and I expect that you guys better cut us some slack. The staff are pissed off with you all and most of the fans are at some of you too, either this stops or there will be no staff to do the TC.
I will state thought this isnt intened at anyone in particular this is just a general feeling that we the 'Attack Of The Clones TC Staff' are feeling.
If you wanted a week off then you should have avoided all these threads for a week.
People acted like jerks!?! We gave you constructive, and non-hatefull advice. Than you got mad at us. Then we got mad at you. The thread ended with a "STFU" form you Ankin. We didn't get mad at you (at first) becuse you made a demo we didn't like. We jsut didn't like it. We shurly don't HAVE to like it do we? Also, why the heck didn't you releace that amazing Corrusaunt map. that alone would ahve made the demo awesome. Anyway, don't call us jerks, you were the one who got mad at us. *Pulls out marsmellows in expectation*
We didnt release Corascant for a very good reason.
Im not getting into arguements over whos right and who is wrong on this, im just speaking out of the box.
Yeah I tried to keep away from this but the rest of the staff made me aware of this and I had to respond to it.
Can't this dispute be handled privately through email? There's been so much sh*t going on in the community lately and I find it very discouraging. I'm not just talking about the AOTCTC demo backlash either. This environment is not good for creativity and collaboration. Resolve all the issues and move on.
STOP!!!!
If you don't understand the following, you may need some serious help:
Anakin and the AotC:TC have been working very, very hard. People definitely gave hime advice, but people also flammed him. They must have had a good reason to not release a whole bunch of stuff. I don't know about the whole "AotC:TC steals OJP stuff." I think I might have said STFU after I just released a demo TC which wasn't received well, but at the same time, WAS MISSING MOST OF IT!! They never put half of the stuff in it. How do you know that it wouldn't get better, huh????
:fett:
Originally posted by Anakin
Paternership, well that really never took off, Im not sure we really got around to it and sorted things out.
Please quit dancing around the issue for PR reasons. You know exactly want happened.
You agreed to the partnership without clearing it fully with your own staff; certain individuals on the AotC staff started making radical decisions (mirage studios) without our consent and then expected us (the OJP people) to go along with it; and finally, your staff started changing the terms of the deal. We didn't want to end up in organizationally hell as AotC's slave labor force, so we killed the partnership.
As I keep on saying you guys have really got it in for us at the moment and there are processes in place to make things move along smoother
What processes? We're hearing jack about whatever is going on inside the TC and that wall of slience has been intentional. You can't blame us for not knowing what you've been keeping secret. If we were given some idea of what reforms/chances are supposely being made, we'd had much less reason to complain.
Im not arguing the fact that this file was in the demo, I looked in there and yes it there, hell shoot me and do something but stop the screwing around with the bitching and crap that I am taking at the moment, this was some week off the TC and all of this, I have taken the day off to sort out stuff and I expect that you guys better cut us some slack. The staff are pissed off with you all and most of the fans are at some of you too, either this stops or there will be no staff to do the TC.
Fix the problems. That's all we want. Otherwise, move over and let someone else take the wheel before you scary off even more modders away from the community.
Secondly, don't blame us for your mistakes. We're not the ones that released a demo that wasn't ready. We're not the ones that sat on important animation data and then lied about it. We're not the ones that hyped the living hell out of the TC.
Originally posted by razorace
We're not the ones that sat on important animation data and then lied about it.
Eh? What's this about?
First of all Razor has some good points and I thought you was gonna turn things over to the rest of the leaders of the TC Anakin and take some time off? From the looks of it your still trying to make excuses for the mod and yourself. If the file was in the demo, isnt it your job to do something about it, since your the head honcho of the TC? Lathain, for your answer go look in the thread about the AOTC TC Demo. You should get your answers and some extra information as well. Majin, just stop ur BS, if im not mistaken you was fighting with them awhile back about your gunship and jedi starfighter skins.
We're not the ones that sat on important animation data and then lied about it.
Not that it matters anymore. We went off on our own and took care of it. And as soon as I get the go ahead from the lucasfiles guys this issue will be put to rest for a very long time hopefully.
Well bugger me, You dont see DF TC showing you the inners of thier project and hows it run, when you learn to grow up and piss off Razor then we might be able to talk again, you and me have never got along, this whole thingabout the partenership was going fine, the whole Mirage Studios thing was something else, we agreed, and I remember this VERY well that ojp.com was something that we would work together on, hell I didnt want it taken over I wanted to work closer with you guys, I think it was you that was afriad that we might be getting along and we could do better together as a team rather than enemies.
And about the demo and animation files, yeah well
a) The demo was ChosenOnes baby and he worked his nuts off to get it done with, it was a base code change nothing more, the fans should of read the readme file a little more,
b) the animation data I havent been sitting on it, If I could find it i would give it to you I even had this talk MONTHS ago with ask, I told Keshire I had it because I know I have it some were, you try living my life Razor and you will find it is nothing like a walk in a park like yours.
DF TC hasn't used OJP material incorrectly, screwed us over in a partnership, or sat on critical animation data for months.
And I was the one that approached you, not the other way around.
If the mirage studios thing was seperate, how come you stated that you were going to register ojp.com and then instead registered mirage studios the next day without explaination? When we asked about it, all we got was guff expecting us to have to join into that whole deal. And what was your response to my posts on the forum? You deleted them without explaination.
This occurred after both me and Phunk had specifically wanted to make sure everything was ok dokie with both teams before anything was announced publicly.
And what about at the same time when you were suppose to give me access to the staff forums? Instead you stalled for days, only give me access to a coding forum with one thread in it, and never gave me access to the forums where all the discussions about mirage studios, or hell, everything is/was being discussed. Then, a month later, Keshire announces that he cracked the animation issue and he's on the staff forums within 24 hours.
As such, I've been forced to get everything second hand thru other people.
Also, I talked to ASk about the animation thing because I didn't want to accuse you of anything until I was sure that you had not been honest about this. And just like I remembered, he stated that when we grilled you about this, you only coughed up 2 files and nothing else. There was no mention of anything remotely like 100 megs of Raven's animation data that you apprenently have.
And, finally, you've done nothing to fix the problem(s). Instead, you're apprenently spending all your AotC time complaining about people who have given you guys flak about the horribly undocumented and unfinished demo and dinking with your website.
Meanwhile, you've already lost Unique, who did more for the project in a month than the rest of the team did in 6 months, and Chosen One has disappear and/or quit. That's your whole damn coding staff and the only ones able to deliver any of their assigned material when you signaled a demo release.
EDIT: Well, to clarify, the demo isn't so much unfinished as it was not fully updated before release. Unique apprenently had multiple fixes/additions that were never included in the demo because noone contacted him.
Everyone is complaining that the demo "doesn't do anything" simply because the documentation of the features (which are mostly subtle) is non-existant. You can't do 2,000 lines of NPC AI coding and then forget to tell people how to turn it on.
I think if documentation is added and some of the rough edges smoothed, people would probably like the demo. Some examples....
1. there's way too many stances for the amount of animations we currently have for the game. I know Unique was really big on it, but it totally makes stance switching impossible. It would be much better to just have the stance position be selectable.
2. The colored lighting bug has got to go. It's been around since the AI mod days and it should be easy to fix. I had the exact same problem with TCK's new RGB code.
And the reason your being grilled so bad is because you've constantly danced around and dodged the various issues. No concrete answers have ever really been given.
Exactly. We can handle you having a different opinions (boy, I got some biggie differences with Phunk), leadership styles, etc, but we can't handle half-truths, dishonesty, intentional informational blackouts, or the withholding critical community data from the community.
This isn't life or death, we're willing to forgive and forget (at least I am) as long as the above is addressed.
Originally posted by Anakin
when you learn to grow up and piss off Razor then we might be able to talk again,
this right here shows that your level of maturity is no where near razor's. i mean, sure it would be easy for razor to curse and insult, yet he doesn't.
You're living in a naieve world anakin, calling those that did not like the TC(??TC?! Stances Mod!) Demo 'jerks and *******s trying to ruin your life and dont like you :'( '
Instead of saying "ah yes I see, how clumsy. Expect your TC demo in ** weeks" you go ":'( :'(". Screwup 1
Screwup 2: raping OJP. Instead of thanking them and use the data you grab everything and give them the finger. The demands you guys asked were totally ridiculous ("change name")
Will there be another screwup? Are you Anakin going to ruin the image of this tc by another one? Ruin all the work? Every company knows that besides good products you need a good image, and like Benetton they do something about it. Really come to your senses and 1)dont rape OJP 2) continue the work and release a TC demo, everyone will be happy and admire the tc if you stop screwing up, its not too late for that
Originally posted by Anakin
And about the demo and animation files, yeah well
a) The demo was ChosenOnes baby and he worked his nuts off to get it done with, it was a base code change nothing more, the fans should of read the readme file a little more,
I hate to interject here, but that wasn't the issue. What confused ME for example wasn't that the "readme" said this was a code-change only demo, rather there really was no readme.
The Demo was essentially just an installer inside a zip archive.
We saw the screenshots (which we removed from LucasFiles as soon as we tested the thing ourselves) that showed new maps and new skins being used for the "demo." We assumed that was part of it.
Were was this readme file to read?
There was an introduction text inside the installer but it was just a "thank you letter" and introduction to the project itself. After installing you got a "list of features" that you guys admitted was not even complete. And it was for the entire project, not just the demo. It never said "oh btw, no skins or maps included guys."
Finally the installer itself listed Models/Skins and Maps as part of the install.
Only by doing a Custom Install and UNchecking those options could a person put 2 and 2 together and realize that these didn't increase or decrease the file size so they were obviously not included.
Most people would simply have installed the whole thing, then looked in vain for the new maps/skins, not found them and wondered why they were mislead.
Just wanted to say that. If it was as simple as reading a readme "more carefully" I'm sure people would have done so.
It wasn't enough to say on your site (after the demo was released) that there was no skins or maps, because as you know your site went down for many hours during that time. The majority of people got it from lucasfiles or other site(s).
This isn't and shouldn't be a "get Anakin crusade."
Rather people should work out their bad feelings that resulted from where this project has gone. So that's the point of all this discussion. Right?
I hate to see you the target of all the criticism, but as the project leader who makes the big decisions, you've got to take some responsibility right?
Not many people flamed you. Only those who had dial up and spent hours dnling a 54MB demo with nothing in it but a menue chance and some very buggy stances. We suggested you do some more work get some content, and then release a good demo that would show off your work. Then you got mad and the flames started.
OT, but E3 2004 is starting today!! w00t!
Hey Razor,
I was on a business trip to Boston for two days this week. Saturday and Sunday I was not at home at all. I'll talk to ya when I get home from work today...
Later,
Mike
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Hey Razor,
I was on a business trip to Boston for two days this week. Saturday and Sunday I was not at home at all. I'll talk to ya when I get home from work today...
Later,
Mike
http://www.lucasforums.com/images/sendpm.gif)
It's within the constraints of the thread Alegis. Shut it.
This is one big PM that needs to be aired, if you think about it.
Hi
I have absolutely nothing to do with either the OJP or the AOTC Total Conversion, but ive been reading this post and i must agree that alot of the things that looked like they "should" shave been in the demo arent.
1. I like the bot AI, but unless you do something to get ther attention they run right past you.
2. The amount of customisation on sabers in regards to blade thickness, color and hilt are good.
3. Ther are far too many saber stances, ok they look nice, but it makes the logistics of changing stances nigh impossable in the middle of a fight.
4. I thought that in a previous news post on jediknight.net that the multiplayer was going to be done in the style of the cartoon of the clone wars. And this being a multplayer demo, and some of the PR screens ive seen for the demo have been very misleading.
5. Weather effects are very good.
It does look amazing and im sure once all the features have been included in the final release, it is gonna be worth the wait. But i did think that the demo was under parr. If it was me making the decisions i would of put the cel-shaded multiplayer with just one or two maps into the demo. That would have made it a demo.
I think the single player would be enough to wait for tho... ther is still gonna be single player isnt ther? :confused:
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
It's within the constraints of the thread Alegis. Shut it.
This is one big PM that needs to be aired, if you think about it.
Amen to that...Razor broadcast I dropped off the face of the earth or quit...So I thought a global broadcast of my whereabouts would be sufficient.
wow... all i want to know is what the heck an OJP file was doing there.
anyway Rad, I see you love the new "realistic" looking Zelda, just as I do :) Can't wait for it, the trailer made me drool
Amen to that...Razor broadcast I dropped off the face of the earth or quit...So I thought a global broadcast of my whereabouts would be sufficient.
That might be very sufficient right now, considering people are wanting answers.
Originally posted by Raith80
4. I thought that in a previous news post on jediknight.net that the multiplayer was going to be done in the style of the cartoon of the clone wars. And this being a multplayer demo, and some of the PR screens ive seen for the demo have been very misleading. I think that was a 'maybe'; they weren't sure about it.
I thought that in a previous news post on jediknight.net that the multiplayer was going to be done in the style of the cartoon of the clone wars.
Different Mod.
Thats the Clone Wars Side. Pretty much Led by a totally different person and team.
And has shown much more progress.