Possible Small Spoilers, don't read if you really don't want to know anything about the game until you've completely beaten it.


Does anyone else feel that the enemies, and the saber wielding enemies in particular, lacked any feeling of distinct character? It just doesn't seem satisfying beating any of the characters in the game. Killing a "saber wielding cultist" is just kind of blah. Anyone remember good old Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight? Now THOSE saber wielding baddies had character and were therefore much more fun to do battle with and triumph over. Gorc and Pic were cool! Yun was one of my favorites, a dark jedi with honor. And how about that guy with no legs, Maw. Or the insanely fast twi'lek with two sabers, Boc? Or even Jerec himself. Those were all fairly well done characters and they all had a distinct feel to them. Jedi Outcast didn't quite live up to JK1 in that department, but at least it had Desann and Tavion, both with a decent bit of character. Jedi Academy has .... Alora? She's just kind of there. And Tavion? Whatever character she had in JO is gone. That leaves us with Rosh, who I can't really complain about, and all the reborns/cultists. Oh, and Kyle if you decided to go Dark Side. I have to say that the Kyle fight was the most satisfying. Why? Because fighting him wasn't just like fighting any old reborn. You feel like you know him and his motivations. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is summed up like this: When it comes down to it, which fight will you remember: Fighting Sariss around the crashed ship with Yun's saber after Yun gives his life to give you a fair fight, or killing that cultist in the hallway outside the hanger.

Don't get me wrong, I like having lots of saber fights, but having one that feels like it means something or is different from the 500 others in some significant way would be quite refreshing. Ok, I'm done.... flame away.

Why should they have character. They had the Dark Side controlling them, so they were virtually zombies so to speak. Last time I checked, ZOmbies have ZERO personality. ANd with Kyle, he was in my way, so defeating him was no problem for me, whether he had character or not.. He, IMO, was just another obstacle in my way for my path to the Dark Side:)

The reborn/cultists don't need much character, they're filler. But a fight or two with a sith who had something unique about him would have been nice. Look at the movies. Vader had character. Maul had character. Dooku had character. Palpatine had character. And I didn't say I had a problem with fighting Kyle, in fact I said it was the best fight in the game :p

I agree with you, Peregrine. The only cultists that seemed to have any defining character at all were those who protected Rosh. While I enjoyed the saber combat in JA...by the end I was thinking 'not another cultist' *sigh*

I've said it elsewhere, but I'll reiterate here...I would have preferred a handful of more powerful Dark Jedi to fight, like in JK. Alora was starting to get interesting, until I killed her off, and I enjoyed both encounters with her. Tavion could have been better throughout, but was acceptable. A handful more enemies with their own personalities, who could be encountered and fought, to escape and fight another day, could have been very challenging.

A running saber duel across an entire level, while other things were going on, would have been awesome.

JK still stands head and shoulders above the others in the series in terms of characterisation and plot. Part of that was due to the amount of 'screen time' the characters received in the cut scenes.

If they have designed this beautiful saber combat simulation, I bet they're going to use it as much as possible - hence all the saberfights.

But you're also right in that personality in enemies count for something - you have to be afraid of them, most importantly. I was a bit scared each time I faced a dark jedi in JK. And I hated the shadowtroopers. The reborn (old and new) were just mince meat equipped with glowsticks.

But I think we need some sort of hybrid. More lightsaber fights than JK, but way less than in JO and JA, where you were almost elbow-deep in broken cultists and gutted reborns. Something like 3 dark jedi each level, with the last one being "special" in a minor way - perhaps you know it was he who personally slaughtered all those civilians, or maybe it was he who continually harassed you throghout the entire level and now it's showdown time.

I find the "lone jedi versus a horde of gun users" much more satisfying than the flukey, happy-go-lucky jousts against dark jedi - especially in this game, as you can now block blaster bolts even when swinging the saber - tremendous difference, and much more fun now.

Originally posted by C'jais
But I think we need some sort of hybrid. More lightsaber fights than JK, but way less than in JO and JA, where you were almost elbow-deep in broken cultists and gutted reborns. Something like 3 dark jedi each level, with the last one being "special" in a minor way - perhaps you know it was he who personally slaughtered all those civilians, or maybe it was he who continually harassed you throghout the entire level and now it's showdown time.


Yes, I agree. Definitely more saber battles than JK, but less than JA.

Maybe have a handful of 'Dark Jedi Masters'...and each has a few 'apprentices'. So as you say, you could fight the learners before facing down their masters.

I can just see it now.... Shadow Academy.

Ever since JO, I thought it would be a pretty cool idea to have a sequel where the main villain somehow gets inside the academy and seduces a bunch of students to the dark side right out from under Luke's nose. IMO, it would have been a perfect plot device for academy, given that you play one of the students. It would open things up a bit for far deeper character development....and it beats the tired old 'cult suddenly springs up out of nowhere' idea.

This is why a crack team of master-minds like you need to get toghter and make an SP map pack that revovles around a massive story. I'd download this baby any day if it were to be released. I remember plenty of JK and MOTS levels on massassi.net that were extremely fun to play over and over, one about Han Solo comes to minds were about 10 levels of how Han tries to find Leia and goes to all sorts of places.

Your guy's doesn't need to be long as long as it has something strong and unique.

I agree with the thread's starting statement. This is one area where Jedi Outcast has Jedi Academy beat hands-down. The bartender in Outcast had more character than any of the villians in Academy.

You know you're in trouble when the maiin villian has been dead for 50 centuries.

There were opportunities. For instance, why not confront the Hutt crimelord who has the prisoners who he feeds to the rancor? Then there's the slease who makes the assassin droids.

The only glimpse of this type of characterization is in the mission where you're taken prisoner by the reincarnation of Charles Laughton.

In the droid recovery mission, where you're supposed to learn some "negotiation" skills, you wind up wiping out a whole settlement.

On a related note, the game series has to find a new enemy. The remnant's getting stale, frankly.

I guess you build interaction through cut scenes and interacting with characters. Perhaps a good one for the next game is to find out where all these saber trained bad guys are coming from, and you do that by infiltrating and joining the cult itself. Along the way you do dark side missions, but try and do it in a way that you're actually thwarting their plans while you're undercover.

You meet and work with a whole bunch of bad guys, and during the course of the game, you have to take them down when they 'find out too much'. That way you can have bucketloads of bad guys, and characters you get to know before you fight them. Big boss at the end is the one who is training these guys. Master Swordsman, etc. The big bad.

Call it Sith Academy if you want. Or Academy of the Sith. I don't really want copyright. Just cash.

Originally posted by [PMOH] Wolf-Man
Call it Sith Academy if you want. Or Academy of the Sith. I don't really want copyright. Just cash.

Sorry, dude, but Qaz already had that idea in detail on the "Chilling Thought."

let me start off by saying JA is the only game in the series i have beaten. that said, my opinion is this: don't whine for more personality in your enemies that are made specifically for you to wipe the floor with. the cultists are going to lack special powers because they were GIVEN the force, they did not develop their skills. they lack personality because they suck; they're not designed to last long against you because there are so many of them to fight.

i'm not trying to be a jerk or a smart-a** or anything; i know you guys realize all this crap. what i'm saying is don't mess with the cultists. they were put in the game to be stomped on, wiped out quickly. instead, pick on the designers for not creating more BIG villains, more boba fetts and aloras and maybe more fights with rosh. that is where the mistakes were made. there should have been more memorable boss fights, not necessarily memorable stormie slaughters.

hey, another cool story idea would be to have jaden explore boba's apperance. who hired him and so on. i dunno, another fett fight would be sweet. :fett:

hehe...did anyone else think that jaden's voice (male) sounded hilarious when he turned the dark side? not especially when rosh died, but at koraban, before and after the tavion fight? :nutz3:

I think the idea of more decent Dark Jedi in a JK game is the best idea... I got really bored fighting all of those cultists that always were the same and allways had Red Lightsabers.

I really enjoyed the fight with Alora where she escaped right at the end, and I think there should perhaps be more Dark Jedi and more fights like that (perhaps when you defeat a Dark jedi you only succeed in lopping off his/her arm and they come back next time with a robotic one and a different saber)

Hordes of guys with lightsabers are cool to fight, but more of an effort should have been made with them... At the very least they should have given them random saber colour each time.

And why couldn't I choose a Red Saber! :mad: I mean they let you learn dark side force abilities saying "Its not abilities that are evil but how you use them" surely a red lightsaber is not Evil! :D

Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged
the cultists are going to lack special powers because they were GIVEN the force, they did not develop their skills. they lack personality because they suck; they're not designed to last long against you because there are so many of them to fight.

Yes, you're right, they're just saber-fodder. But if you place it in the context of the game's story (rather than game mechanics), this cultist 'army' is supposed to have been created to take care of the Jedi. If they're so easy to kill, then the whole idea of the cultists as a viable menace to the galaxy falls flat on it's face. If you know you're not going to be as strong as a Jedi in a face-off, then you need an ace up your sleeve.

...instead, pick on the designers for not creating more BIG villains, more boba fetts and aloras and maybe more fights with rosh.

I thought that was what we were doing. ;P

hey, another cool story idea would be to have jaden explore boba's apperance. who hired him and so on. i dunno, another fett fight would be sweet.

Yet another example where loose ends are simply left hanging, and a 'guest' appearance could have had a stronger sub-plot in the game, and been tied in to the overall plot in a more meaningful way.


And Wolf-Man, I like your idea of tracking down the cultists to their base, and infiltrating their organisation. Again, it would have added a great deal more depth, and opportunities for some sneaky behaviour.

Yeah, those Cultists and Reborns feel like mass production:D

Just lots of them. No name, no history, no personality. I liked JK1 Dark Jedis, but these are ok too. But there should not be so many of them, or at least they should be something more important. They are just.. Like stormtrooper.

The problem with Reborn is that they aren't really Sith.

If you guys have played JO in SP to the end and defeated Desann, the story was basically that these people have been imbued with force power and are as such not Sith but just evil men with force powers (Trust me, there's a world of difference between the two) ;)

Being a Sith compromises other diciplines than pure destructive power (although it helps alot) like being able to decieve your enemy, avoid suspecion etc. hence the the reason to the covert operations of Palpatine before the fall of the Republic.

For some reason "true" Sith are only allowed to have one apprentice which I vaguely remember being implied in Episode 1 (correct me if I'm wrong) - Something in the way "There are always two" which also holds true in Episode II, IV, V, VI (Vader and Palpatine). Same thing in JO: Desann and Tavion and in JA: Tavion and Allora

DF2:JK is an exception since there are more Sith than what is normally "allowed", but that can be put aside since they were all really cool :D

But once again - I'd just like to see more people in the JK games in general. I loved the village in DF2:JK where you had the opputunity to save the innocent or slay them at your leasure. :D

Nice one Dethsaint! no kiddin, he's got a point. though many sith would be sweet, the movies prevented it with prophecies. this is a viable reason for the game designers not to have made more potent sith warriors, or just more of them.

stormhammer, sry but i gotta disagree with you on the cultists. i dont think they were designed to wipe out anything; most definitely not the new jedi order. Ragnos was gonna do that. the cultists were made to do tavion's bidding. go snatch this force, release that mutated rancor, so on...

let me point out though that they are rather powerful COMPARED to the other jedi knights at the academy. at koraban, there was only about a 50% success rate in the jedis' duels against the cultists the 2 times i ran thru the game. just cuz jaden can mop em up or because i say theyre made to wipe out nothing doesnt mean they cant put up a good fight....

....if you turn the difficulty level high enough! :smirk2:

I think the idea with only having two sith at a time was this: In the past, there had been many sith, but whenever there are more than 2(a Master and an Apprentice who knows his place) then they end up turning on each other and struggling to become the most powerful. Just look at Vader as he tried to turn Luke to the dark side, he was already plotting to overthrow the emperor. But hey, I have no problem with having many sith struggling to become the dominant master, actually sounds like a cool plot to me. I'm sure theres much more detail to the "only two sith" thing than that, but I only vaguely remember reading/hearing about it somewhere and don't remember any more than I've already said. Anyone else remember reading about it somewhere?

From my understanding, it was like Darth Bane or something like that who came up with the rule of 2 for Siths, because of that very reason. He knew if the sith #'s grew, it would cause chaos, whereas limiting it would allow for more powerful combination.

Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged
stormhammer, sry but i gotta disagree with you on the cultists. i dont think they were designed to wipe out anything; most definitely not the new jedi order. Ragnos was gonna do that. the cultists were made to do tavion's bidding. go snatch this force, release that mutated rancor, so on...


No need to apologise. ;) You make a good point, and I was probably reading too much into things - including a hangover from Jedi Outcast, where the Reborn were supposed to wipe out the Academy. Or something.

As for the 2 Sith rule...well, that was a long, long time ago. There's nothing to say a new bunch of Sith wannabes couldn't care less about ancient rules, and start sprouting up here and there, and get engaged in some power struggles.

I'd actually prefer some 'chaos'...

Originally posted by Templar101
I really enjoyed the fight with Alora where she escaped right at the end, and I think there should perhaps be more Dark Jedi and more fights like that (perhaps when you defeat a Dark jedi you only succeed in lopping off his/her arm and they come back next time with a robotic one and a different saber)

I really like that idea. Its a bit reminiscent of the cutscene at the start of JK where Rahn cuts maw in half. When you next see him, he's missing his legs.

Also, the whole arm thing fits into star wars very well (by my count, in the films, 3 seperate arms/right hands have been cut off!)

ON the subject of the post though, I don't think that the enemies have to have distinct characters like in JK, but they do need to be distinct from one another. I know some had single sabres, others had duals and the rest had staffs but I couldn't tell which were which until I got close and even when they drew their sabre I took them on in exactly the same way.

Compare this to JO. It was instantly obvios which type of reborn you were fighting (from their outfit) and I can honestly say that I took them on in different ways (e.g. I'd always use heavy stance for a shadowtrooper, I'd never run right at a fencer, I'd never throw my sabre at an acrobat...).

Althought the cultists did wear different colours in the game, as far as I could see, this just told you theirrank and not what fighting style they adopted.

What I'm saying is that a variety of oponents is only worth it if it forces the player to adopt a variety of methods to overcome them. Look at the stromtroopers. If you include the rocketeers and the hazard troopers there are at least 7 different types in the game (including the variation in armaments) which meant I had to deal with them differently - for example, say I'm facing a squad leader armed with a flechette. I make sure he's the first to die as he can hurt me badly. If he's got a MSMS, I'll push the rockets back at him....

The one good point about the enemies in JA is the force users. They are a really original idea and forced a change in tactics from the usual grind of taking out the rest of the cultists.

About that "only 2 Sith" thing. Yes, Yoda mentions this in Episode I. However, that doesn't explain how we now have Darth Sideous. Given their relative strengths, I would say that Dooku is (or was) apprenticed to Palpatine. Therefore, Maul was likely apprenticed to Dooku OR Palpatine. Either way, we have 3 Sith running around the galaxy and mixing things up. Discontinuity? YES and yet more evidence that George Lucas' prequel trilogy is a cash grab. (Sorry for that last bit...but I'm not happy with the plot holes and horrible acting that have been the rule rather than the exception)

I have to agree about fewer bigger saber fights. It was slightly disappointing to me that they made all the boss battles difficult only by endless hitpoints. I remember there was a feeling of accomplishment when I first beat Gorc and Pic that was lacking in JA and even JO.

I think the only problem is that there were too many reborn/cultist fights. The characters themselves would've been cool, but there's just too many of them - they get boring. It would've been better if there were just 2, 3, maybe 4 saber battles with cultists per level - they would've stayed special that way. Less cultists but with more health so that the fights would be longer is what I would like to have seen. And the "boss" fights? They were alright, but none of them were really really extra special. The characters once again served their purpose, but I think there could've been more to facing a Sith. And it would be cool if there were the kinds of fights like the one with Maw in Jedi Knight: you go through a whole level while fighting. Just like in The Phantom Menace or Luke vs. Vader in Empire Strikes Back. Being in one room is fine also, but then it should be more of a special event - like the emperor's throne room in Return of the Jedi. None of the locations where you fight a boss in JA had that vibe to them, in my opinion.

we all seem to think that the cultists weren't that difficult. but what level where you guys playin at? i beat the game on padawan, turning to the dark side the second time around, while selecting duels instead of staff. so i've beaten it twice all the way thru on padawan. of COURSE the fights were easy. so i'm gonna turn up the level.

has anyone played the game through at a rougher level? are the cultists still easy kills? :quesbrn:

please say no...

Tavion, Rosh and Alora are all too easy.

'nuff said

On the Sith thing , Desann never really was a Sith, he was plainly a Jedi seduced by the dark side, a Dark Jedi, as they were simply called before the Episode I days, to be a sith you need to know the teachings and philosophies of the Sith and also be able to read their own style of hieroglyphs, if not taught in the ways of the Sith but seduced by the dark side, you are plainly a fallen/dark jedi.

But on the idea,I quite like it, having a group of decently trained Dark Jedi team up and combine their strenghts with their apprentice(s ) as well, and perhaps contract every scumbag in the galaxy worth his salt rather than the imperial remnant since they seem to foul up time and time again, but hey, a original trilogy era, or not too long after it game is not complete without a stormtrooper in it. ^.^ You lose part of the Star Wars feel if you don't throw in stormtroopers.

Anyways, on the note of the cultists and reborn not having any personality, well I can live with that, for all we know an imperial general provided Desann/Tavion (depending if it's JO or JA) with a load of stormtroopers to infuse them with the Force, and we all know how much personality Stormtroopers have, so personally I'm fine with that. ^.^
[/end rant]

Tavion was tougher in Outcast, and more interesting.

I, too, ploughed through the game for the first time on Padawan.

(Waits for snickering to die down.)

I thought I was just incredibly lucky with both Tavion and Ragnos, or "Ragnovion," as it's called on another forum. Then I went through again, and discovered that it wasn't just incredible luck. At least on Jedi level, the "bosses" are not all that difficult.

I played the whole game through on Jedi Knight difficulty the first time through it - and I played light side. It was challenging in parts, and I had some good saber fights with the better cultists (dual sabers and Saberstaff mainly), and I fought with Tavion longer than Alora. But on the whole, the game was too easy for that setting. I breezed through some of the levels.

I'm now replaying the whole game, same difficulty level, but with all Dark Side powers...and it's even easier. Full lightning, full grip and second level drain are just devastating in the tiered missions. The fight with Alora on Hoth took less than a minute...

I'm going to have to go back to play Light Side on Jedi Master difficulty once I've finished it this time.

I played through on the hardest setting, Jedi Master, two times. First with Dark Side powers and duel sabers, then with Light Side powers and a saber staff. I only died a few times, mostly from missing a jump and a couple times in the final boss fights. I was a bit disappointed at how easy it was :( In my opinion playing the dark side was easier for all but the last couple missions. Playing the light side with all the other jedi helping you and not having to fight Kyle made the light side ending a bit easier I think. Out of all the Jedi Knight games I think my favorite duel was the Gorc and Pic fight in JK1. How about you guys?

I was disappointed when I found that Tavion was the main enemy of the game. I think it'd be cool if Tavion could've joined the academy after Kyle gave her another change after he defeated her on Bespin. She seemed very shocked about losing to a Jedi and you'd think that she'd lose interest in the Dark side.

I found that the addition of Alora as the sidekick of Tavion was a very dumb and rushed story. Jedi Academy still has the racism that Jedi Outcast had. With the additions of the Human Mercenaries, Lannik Racto, Rax, miner elders, saboteurs, and everyone I'm missing, there are far too many humans.

Spend about an hour playing around with the npc files and most of the little short failings of the game can be fixed. Suggestion for those of you who would like a little less saber fights/cultists just change one or two of them over to the light side via there npc file and instead of finding two cultists waiting to fight you all over the map you end up walking in on some jedi fighting a cultist here and there. (you'll have to change model for the cultist, sound, player class, saber stuff like that) means less saber fights and adds some flavour to the maps. All the cultist pairings wont be changed, it's up to you how much you want to change and who, just play around with it. There are about 15 different cultists ALL of which can be altered to however you want.

Or you could just make some of em have a blaster instead of sabers, :) or just for a laugh change one to mon mothma and watch her run like hell when they spawn LOL.

Originally posted by Wa'es
About that "only 2 Sith" thing. Yes, Yoda mentions this in Episode I. However, that doesn't explain how we now have Darth Sideous. Given their relative strengths, I would say that Dooku is (or was) apprenticed to Palpatine. Therefore, Maul was likely apprenticed to Dooku OR Palpatine. Either way, we have 3 Sith running around the galaxy and mixing things up. Discontinuity? YES and yet more evidence that George Lucas' prequel trilogy is a cash grab. (Sorry for that last bit...but I'm not happy with the plot holes and horrible acting that have been the rule rather than the exception)

No, Dooku became apprentice to Sidious/Palpatine AFTER Maul died. There is nothing that even implies that Dooku was working with Sidious and Maul in EP1.

Originally posted by TK8242MJL
Jedi Academy still has the racism that Jedi Outcast had. With the additions of the Human Mercenaries, Lannik Racto, Rax, miner elders, saboteurs, and everyone I'm missing, there are far too many humans.

Well, there were hardly any humans in Outcast, if you think about it. Only the occasional Jedi and Rebel on Yavin. Of course I'm not talking about Stormtroopers either, since they are anonymous saberblade fodder.


And yeah, like mentioned, "Sith" is not the same thing as "Dark Jedi" - for one thing, I don't mind the dark Jedi thing in this SW "era" - since most Jedi students have been in hiding, or don't know they had the force, during the grand days of the Empire, most New Order students start training older. Which means they keep their emotional attachments and whatnot, and likely more of them will become corrupted by their new-found powers.


And in any case, don't like the story/villains/enemies/characters? MAKE YOUR OWN GAME THEN.

Hmmmm.....

LOL, people, an idea for a good storyline is always under your nose....


Dark Side........ Light Side
Sith...........................Jedi

Whats in between?


YUP, that's right, the neutral. We can have a new order/mercenary/neutral force user style of thing.


Think about it, what could be more fun then having a supirior force push that could knock people and thier lightsaber's out?

Some of the new concepts might include a new lightsaber style, lets say a light daggo with a lightsaber!

As for the story, let's say the Sith DO come back (that could be the first part of the storyline) and now Jedi and Sith are all over the galaxies again.

Now:

A. You could choose as what to become in the beggining: Train in the Sith Cult or the Jedi Order? Follow stabilization and order or chaos and hate? As the story of your deeds progresses (slaughter stuff, or preventing evil plans) you will locate a strange new group that stayed of the temptation of the dark side and the calmness and peace of the light side to become edge runners, just use the powers of the force that aren't motivated by feelings, and now a couple of branches that can combine:

A1. You see the truth and join the new group
A2. The group is obsessed with balance of the force and believes that the only way to preserve it is to kill of all Jedi and Sith
A3. You don't like the group and want to kill it, or your masters want the group dead.
A4. Because of the different world views the group wants to dominate the galaxy to enforce its visions, but not for Dark or Light Side...
A5. The group is called the Grey Swashbuclkers, etc.
A6. ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THIS F***ING CRAP OF JEDI\SITH UNITING, there should be a 3 way war with one side going for ultimate power and anarchy, other for saving the galaxy and order, and the last one to enforce its views on the galaxy.

Also there could be some fun plot twists and ideas, for ex: Sith inventing a new LightSaber which feeds off not a crystal, but of the dark side and works like a shaft of light emitting darkness....

So, what do ya think?

pretty cool; kinda off the wall.

good ideas, almost all of em. i wasn't too sure about the grey side thing until you said that they could possibly attempt to destroy both sides, then i knew for sure: that idea is the one that wouldnt fly. why? as soon as they attacked -- hatred, violence, death, and destruction. all these lead to the dark side. there is a praxis evil, pure anger motivating your actions making you more powerful without turning you to the dark side, however the greys wouldnt be interested seeing as how they are not motivated by emotion.

no, how about some yuuzhan vong? thudbugs, amphistaffs, and crab armor along with worship of self-inflicted pain, mutilation, and death.

wonder if lucas has any new jedi order games in the works? they have good characters in them. (yes that was a sad attempt to stay on thread's subject):disaprove

I don't know about having 'neutral' Jedi...but the idea of different factions working against each other to achieve a particular objective is sound. After all, that was the basic premise of Deus Ex.

So I can well imagine starting off as a Jedi apprentice again...but the story is built in such a way that you don't really know who to trust, including the supposed 'good guys' at the Jedi Academy.

A nice scenario like the time Obi-Wan did the dirty on Luke, and told him his father was dead. If there was an even more momentous lie that was discovered...what then?

Mix in some shades of grey and uncertainty, with opposite sides that are 'believable' and can justify their actions convincingly. Then it really does become the player's choice about who is their enemy, and who must be stopped. Being able to switch sides depending on your actions...and maybe even becoming a free agent working for your own ends.

That kind of freedom of choice could lead to some very interesting scenarios.

Of course...it's unlikely ever to happen, but as people have stated before, there's always the possibility of a mod...

Without getting into one of those 'this is how things happen in the star wars universe' arguments, its not a huge surprise that the reborn are just hot heads running at you with sabers, as opposed to the characters in JKI. Seeing that they were suddenly granted force powers, their ability to use it effectively would be diminished compared to a jedi, light or dark, apprentice or not - namely someone who has lived and trained in using the force, be it for good or bad......

But still, in JA you get Alora, Tavion etc.

Gorc and Pic were great, did anyone ever make a skin or either of them for JO ? Gorc(I think he is the larger one??) had a saber hilt the size of a baseball bat !

MTFBWYA

yeah yeah yeah, whatever. come up with new ideas, speculate all you want, (the ideas are good tho, and i would download the mods, or pay for the game) but i think lucasarts should roll with what works. go with storylines predtermined in the books, as in SOTE. the vong are so freakin cool. now THERE are some tough kills. and there are so many of em. they are impervious to the force, heck they dont even exist in the force (tho we are learnin a little bit more about that in the last of the NJO series with them researching the living planet of zonama sekot.) their character is already developed... it'd be a great game or games.

another idea. someone said why not make JA an expansion instead of an entirely new game? why not make our ideas into an expansion? wind it into the existing storyline, fix the voices for the characters, add more customization for the player, so on. make the choice for the force early. add more meaningful fights, cooler characters.

whats not to love?

Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged
whats not to love?

The yuzxoyang Vuong.

:D

I, like many others, think that the idea about Vongs is horrible. It's like something a bunch of 8-year-olds would come up with after having a "LIEK WHAT CULD EVAR BEAT TEH MASTAR JEDI!!!?"-debate. :D

(I only read the last post of this thread :o )

Originally posted by Luc Solar
The yuzxoyang Vuong.

:D

I, like many others, think that the idea about Vongs is horrible. It's like something a bunch of 8-year-olds would come up with after having a "LIEK WHAT CULD EVAR BEAT TEH MASTAR JEDI!!!?"-debate. :D I agree... That EU comic stuff is kind of... dumb. And if you want to see what could beat a Jedi Master in Jedi Academy, spawn Boba Fett, Sand Creature, Rancor, or Mutant Rancor.

Damn I wanna use the mutant rancor skin in MP... :(

I can already picture myself bunnyhopping around drain whoring peeps before I use Kyle's grappling techniques to kick the crap out of them!

Oh and imagine a 20 ft tall Rancor going all KATA on your ass! OMG pH34R!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by Doug Thompson
I agree with the thread's starting statement. This is one area where Jedi Outcast has Jedi Academy beat hands-down. The bartender in Outcast had more character than any of the villians
On a related note, the game series has to find a new enemy. The remnant's getting stale, frankly.

Agreed. Though there is something satisfying about cutting down swarms of stormtroopers it is getting a bit old. With the Empire shattered and the New Republic still not entirely in control yet you'd think that there would be a lot of other factions at work around the galaxy. Lot of politics, intrigue, that sort of thing.

Originally posted by Akai
Agreed. Though there is something satisfying about cutting down swarms of stormtroopers it is getting a bit old. With the Empire shattered and the New Republic still not entirely in control yet you'd think that there would be a lot of other factions at work around the galaxy. Lot of politics, intrigue, that sort of thing.

Shh. I want my SP episode to be original. ;) :p

But I agree with that statement, although you can't beat the pure gracefulness of a saber going through the mighty white armor of a legion of stormtroopers!

Actually, I guess adding on to this, is the fact, that a story doesn't have to involve the FUTURE OF THE ENTIRE GALACTIC EMPIRE/REPUBLIC/REBELLION. How about a smaller scale story, about some individual ending up in quite a big mess with all the crap going around the galaxy!

For example, I liked the storylines in X-wing: Alliance. I mean the character's name was stupid: "Ace? Maybe Acehole..." - but it had a story of a fairly simple family trying to make it in the middle of the Galactic Rebellion.

One problem with all these, though, is that the guns in Raven's Jedi Knight games, well, aren't exactly the best - the saber is so much better, and that requires a Jedi of Force-attuned character to be in the story.

I thought JK/MotS were well better off in this respect, I mean there were some very well done single player episodes from the community, and they didn't have to be Jedi-based - which allowed for more options with the stories.

Just some more thoughts.

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Shh. I want my SP episode to be original. ;) :p

But I agree with that statement, although you can't beat the pure gracefulness of a saber going through the mighty white armor of a legion of stormtroopers!

Actually, I guess adding on to this, is the fact, that a story doesn't have to involve the FUTURE OF THE ENTIRE GALACTIC EMPIRE/REPUBLIC/REBELLION. How about a smaller scale story, about some individual ending up in quite a big mess with all the crap going around the galaxy!


My thoughts exactly. It's a big galaxy after all and not every game has to revolve around saving the galaxy from the latest uber-villian. One of the things Jedi do is get involved in regional disputes, trying to mediate things. Have some gray area in the story, not neccessarily a battle between good and evil, have some long term consequences. Maybe not quite up to the usual epic scale, but that could be a lot of fun in itself.

Anyhoo it will be neat to see what you have in store with your episode.

I could live very well with that, doing what a Jedi would be doing during a time of relative peace, helping settle smaller problems to prevent them from becoming big problems.

Well, the missions that you go on give you just that.
Saving the Elders, the crashed ship, the guy making robots etc.

Although I agree. I like the occasional game/film where the story isn't about saving the whole world.

Obviously there'd be little point in a SW game without a jedi, but I'm sure that you could have some 'simple' disputes.

i like the x-wing alliance missions, too. winding a game into the movies' storyline and letting the game's character be in famous places like battle of hoth or endor is really sweet.

but that would be cool if the story and mission you were involved in mattered only to the main character, like in alliance. this could be done with mods in JA...:D