In Outcast, as in Academy, while playing single player and running, I feel like I am ice skating.

This really has a big impact on the game for me. It is hard to control running in tight spots (near cliffs and thin walk ways). Second, it is harder to fight enemies because I move more to the right or left that I wanted to.

1. Constuctive Criticism to Raven and Lucas Arts-As much as possible, SP and MP movement should be the same. The running in MP is more controllable.

2. Help-Is there a console command that would change how the character runs in SP (make it more like MP)?

Any info anyone can give would help, otherwise, SP is jut to irritating for me :(

Thanks...

You can use the "g_speed #" cheat.

Replace "#" with a number. (I think 250 is the default speed)

NOTE: You might need to type "devmapall" in the console first before you type "g_speed".

is it me or does Jaden run slower than Kyle did in JO

Its more of a jog than run I supose

I had no problems with this, never veered over an edge either ^.^ and I dunno, when Jaden walks she/he does walk faster than Kyle did. Running, I'm not sure about.

I certainly didn't notice any difference.....and never had any problems with going over edges.

Originally posted by Remirol Nacnud
I certainly didn't notice any difference.....and never had any problems with going over edges. This is my experience as well. Certainly the walking animation is a lot faster in JA. I think more or less the actual walking speeds are the same.

IN what context do you mean the 'ice skating' effect?

Is it when you've just been running...and then stop, but you still slide forward/left/right? Well, in my view, that's more realistic. You shouldn't simply come to a direct halt after running - so a little 'skid' makes perfect sense to me.

As for another potential issue - where you seem to be skating while running (or even walking)...this is largely down to last minute game balances. If the devs have to change the speed of your character moving through the levels in order to make it more acceptable, the trade-off is that you get this effect, because they often don't have the time or budget to go back and record new animations (or tweak existing ones) to fit the new speed ratio. So you have the same character leg movements...but they cover more ground, and so end up looking like 'skating'.

Reducing the rate of movement would fix the issue...but in the end, you might get frustrated that it takes a lot longer to get where you're going. For example...I think they actually tried to make walking in Unreal 2 'realistic'...and it felt like you were a slug wading through molasses.

So more realistic movement doesn't always work.

It seems to me that jogging speed seems more realistic than running speed as you would tire out quickly running everywhere. As for the animations...yeah, they may seem a bit odd, but I quickly got used to them. Now I hardly think about it.

Anyway, if it's speed you want, play the original JK. That had one FAST running speed. On top of that, they didn't have "bullet time" technology, so your character simply sped up using Force Speed. Ah, those good old days where I'd go running around in empty MP levels turning on Force Speed and killing myself by slamming into walls...

...What? Why are you looking at me like that? STOP IT!!!

*runs away and smacks into a wall*

Originally posted by Neverhoodian
On top of that, they didn't have "bullet time" technology, so your character simply sped up using Force Speed. Ah, those good old days where I'd go running around in empty MP levels turning on Force Speed and killing myself by slamming into walls...
Whats bullet time technology? never heard of it...

Originally posted by killabilly
Whats bullet time technology? never heard of it...


Like the scenes out of the matrix when the world slows down. Copied in Max Payne too :P Only in Jk2/Ja sp.
The jk2/ja mp speed just speeds up your character like jk.

Originally posted by Comm539
Like the scenes out of the matrix when the world slows down. And every action movie since :)

Originally posted by Prime
And every action movie since :)

Exactly. Where've you been killabilly, in some locked padded room?

running semmed fine to me:cool:

Ahh...

I know what it is, but i just got confused cos there aint no bullets in Star Wars??

Plus the way Neverhoodian said it 'bullettime technology' it sounded like some sorta special feature of the quake 3 engine i dunno...

But hey anyway enough of embarassing myself...


I didnt have a problem with the running animations in JA but ive recently got Max Payne 2, and my gaming standards have suddenly stepped up another level.

The running animations in that game is so natural it makes jaden looks like he is ice skating. :p

Heh, sorry about the confusion there. I believe the phrase "bullet time" in video/computer games was started with Max Payne. (correct me if I'm wrong) Now for every game that slows everything down I like to say they have "bullet time" technology.

Yeah in the original Jedi Knight (and Mysteries of the Sith) not only did you run and walk faster, but as you ran you picked up speed, plus Level 4 Speed was WAY faster than Level 3 Speed in JK2/JA....

So in the end it was possible to run so fast you could smack into walls and die! (but this only happened to newbies, pretty much)

; )



An intersting way this was handled in the other LucasArts FPS game "Outlaws" (made in 1996, between Dark Forces and Jedi Knight) you had a "tired meter" that slowly got more red as you ran and jumped around, until it finally got all filled up you'd move slower and make huffing and puffing sounds that other players could hear, until you "rested" (walked only or stood still) and then it would go down, then you could run and jump like a monkey again. Haven't seen another game use this idea though...

I guess we're to assume that Jedi are just great atheletes or they use the Force to keep themselves going!

About the athletics thing....
The Star wars books talk about that allot....
Force has nothing to do with athletics but in the academy luke's wife talks to students and helps them get athletic abilities.....
BUT you can use the force to give you athletic abilities but thats only for jedi atuned with the force.

StormHammer (and all).

The context I am talking about and maybe should have clarified is going from left to right and back. I will give you a brief example.

I am standing in the middle of the walkway, which is 10 feet wide. If I press the left strafe button once (in running mode) the character would go 8 feet to the left in single player, 4 feet in multiplayer and 2 feet in walking mode.

The problem is if you strafe in single player while in running mode, your character takes 1 step but covers a distance of 8 feet. Numbers are given as an example only. Multiplayer is noticably different and in my opinion waaaaaaaaay better.

The character moves more to the left and right in 1 step than it does going foward which is stupid. This gives me problems in tight situations and messes me up when attacking with the saber on enemies. I miss them too many times.

I have played every version of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight Series. Outcast was the version that I rarely played single player because it was frustrating. I played mostly multiplayer.

I will try the suggestion that |GG|Crow_Nest's suggestion. I know about this, but I am afraid it will only compound the problem. I appreciate all the help and suggestions and maybe this problem will be fixed through a console command or a patch?

Have fun!

Hmmm...well, I don't have any problems moving around in single player. I think I use the opposite sidestep key to help keep control of my player, but I don't really pay any attention since I seem to be in control of my player...

i find running in JA flawless but walking is the problem ur moving ur feet faster than ur speed and if u walk backwards with ur saber out its kind of a broken animation

I've been waiting for a game to have the 'tiredness' you mentioned. But obviously they've tried it and it was unpopular, so we probably won't be seeing it again.

And as far as Jedi's athletic abilities goes, and correct me if I'm wrong.
In ESB we see Luke in training, running around, jumping and flipping in the air etc. He's sweaty, as he should be, but I don't remember him looking tired. Doesn't he just carry on with his lines without needing to get his breath back?

Originally posted by Remirol Nacnud
I've been waiting for a game to have the 'tiredness' you mentioned. But obviously they've tried it and it was unpopular, so we probably won't be seeing it again.

Well, Doom 3 has a thing where you get tired if you try running around too much, so the idea is still alive.

Originally posted by Remirol Nacnud
I've been waiting for a game to have the 'tiredness' you mentioned. But obviously they've tried it and it was unpopular, so we probably won't be seeing it again.

Well...Severance: Blade of Darkness also had a fatigue meter - so if you tried too many swings with that hefty sword, you had to rest for a bit.

More recently, Enemy Territory has a fatigue meter as well. So if you try bunny-hopping all over the level to get somewhere faster...the fatigue meter will kick in until you have to resort to normal running. I think in this kind of MP context, a fatigue meter is more important if it can deal with bunny-hoppers.

Bunny-hopping in JA MP is dead easy, with no cost to your Force mana, and in fact, you can turn on speed and bunny hop to move radically faster, especially when going downhill, or off a slight rise.

But I digress. I also have not had any problems running around in SP.

Whats wrong with bunny hopping? After they nerfed rolls to become useless (they're not faster than running and they're not enough to move you out of an attack) bunny hopping is the only way to travel. I couldn't stand walking a level its just too slow.

Originally posted by Comm539
Whats wrong with bunny hopping? After they nerfed rolls to become useless (they're not faster than running and they're not enough to move you out of an attack) bunny hopping is the only way to travel. I couldn't stand walking a level its just too slow.

Er...read my post again. I said it was okay to nerf bunny-hopping in the context of ET...because it's supposed to be a more 'realistic' type game. You don't see real troops bunny-hopping across battlefields to get to their destination faster...

I didn't say there was a problem bunny-hopping in JA. If you can have laser-swords and psi abilities...well, anything goes.

Basically, I think bunny-hopping suits some games, and not others. But that's just me.

Anyway...each to their own. Some people like it, some people hate it...and no one's right or wrong whatever their opinion.

Well...Severance: Blade of Darkness also had a fatigue meter - so if you tried too many swings with that hefty sword, you had to rest for a bit.
omg ive finally seen one person who has played that besides me now:D
oh and dont forget gta3 if u sprint too long u get tired for about 3 seconds lol

I know what the original poster is referring to.

Pretty much those of you who spent a lot of time in JK2 SP then ventured into MP after playing SP quite a bit have trouble noticing the "skate effect".

Those of us who (like myself) never, ever even touched JK2 SP, and then after over a year straight of MP tried it for the first time noticed this right away.


It's not so much a "skate effect" as it is a much less responsive play control system.


JK2 MP had ultra crisp "turn on a dime" play control, but in single player it was much more "floaty".


A lot of us have made mention of "the nerfed roll in Jedi Academy".

If you notice, the roll in JA MP is now like JK2 SP roll.

In JK2 MP (1.04) you could start a forward roll, and half way through it, pull back to halt your forward momentum.

This could not be done in JK2 SP, and now it's been removed from JA MP.

This is just a small example of what we mean by you had much more crisp control over your player in JK2 MP than you do in JA MP.

The overall camera movement in JA is much slower as well now too (like JK2 SP).


I can actually snap my mouse and change directions faster than the third person camera can (I use a mouse sensitivity of 50) keep up.

This causes a "pan and jerk" effect in JA MP (and JK2 SP).

Even with that high sensitivity, the JK2 MP camera would trace direction and movements flawlessly.


I'm not bashing the new (old SP JK2 actually) physics system so no need for anyone to rush to it's defense, I'm simply saying there is a huge difference, especially in the third person chase camera and the responsiveness of the play control.


Like I said as well, those of you who played JK2 SP quite a bit got used to the way it felt, so the differences are not going to be obvious.

Those of us who never touched SP and only played MP for over a year can't help but notice them.

Originally posted by StormHammer
Well...Severance: Blade of Darkness also had a fatigue meter - so if you tried too many swings with that hefty sword, you had to rest for a bit.

More recently, Enemy Territory has a fatigue meter as well. So if you try bunny-hopping all over the level to get somewhere faster...the fatigue meter will kick in until you have to resort to normal running. I think in this kind of MP context, a fatigue meter is more important if it can deal with bunny-hoppers.

Bunny-hopping in JA MP is dead easy, with no cost to your Force mana, and in fact, you can turn on speed and bunny hop to move radically faster, especially when going downhill, or off a slight rise.

But I digress. I also have not had any problems running around in SP.

/off topic for a second

True it does have a meter, but to be honest, ask any RTCW: ET vet, the meter is more for "straight on sprints" and has little effect on "bunny hopping" if you know what to do.


Perfect example:

On Gold rush I can sprint out of the initial axis spawn point (the little house) and my meter will be depleted before I ever get outside...

However, even with a depleted stamina bar, I can build enough speed by strafe jumping that I can actually (if it's parked at the first barrier) hop up onto and damn near over the tank.


Check out this RTCW: ET trick jump video, there are two very good examples of what I am referring to.

(avi format)

http://www.student.ntnu.no/~oddrune/etmoves2.avi)

or in smaller zip format
http://www.student.ntnu.no/~oddrune/etmoves2.zip)


it's 48 megs, and I know you are on dial up, but if you like RTCW: ET, it's worth it, trust me.

Well this wouldn't be problem at all if only multi and singleplayer were the same.

One thing I've noted is that JA SP seems to be more responsive than JKII SP...it's definitely different. For over a year I've been working on a SP level for JKII, and since JA is such an improvement in what can be done in levels, I had no doubt I'd switch to JA. Since I'd been working on it so long, I knew the first part of the first level like the back of my hand, if you know what I mean. Well, I loaded up that first level in JA SP, and it feels different...it doesn't feel like JKII. The animations seem better controlled, so that they don't hinder control as much as JKII SP (which it didn't really do, so it's not easy to really pin point what's different, but that seems to best describe how it seemed different).

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Check out this RTCW: ET trick jump video, there are two very good examples of what I am referring to.

(avi format)

http://www.student.ntnu.no/~oddrune/etmoves2.avi)

or in smaller zip format
http://www.student.ntnu.no/~oddrune/etmoves2.zip)


it's 48 megs, and I know you are on dial up, but if you like RTCW: ET, it's worth it, trust me.

Thanks for that. :thumbsup:

And no need to worry about dial-up any more...I got beautiful broadband over a month ago. :D

Thank you FK | unnamed...

You understand what I am talking about!!! The more I think about, the more I am beleiving that there is no tweak. I guess that is the way they programmed it. But if someone in Lucas Arts or Raven ever reads this, why have different player movements in SP or MP?

I am mainly playing Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield now. The single player and multiplayer movement is the same. There is no adjustment needed to switch between modes. That is the only way to go....

OH well...

May the force be with the programmers!