All the special moves are useless... MP is worse than JO 1.04. Please fix this Raven.

Pull / Push is useless...

Prove it before you blurt it out. :rolleyes:

People like you dont deserve to even play this game, whether or not you bought it...

<vorlon>And so it begins.</vorlon>

I own you sucka. I am the best.

wassup... you wanna go 1on1 sucka? i am the best.

Raven have put there heart and soul in to this game and you already want a patch, talk about hard to impress :mad:

Look not every thing about JA is going to impress or amaze everyone, man this is just like what happened with JO, there were guys like you complaing that "this is crap" "that sucks", man just play the damn thing and enjoy it for what it is. :)

If Raven feel the need to release a patch then they will do so, fo now just have your fun in SP if you hate the MP. :)

And don't post anything more about MP without using the Spoiler tag, your ruining it for me, i haven't got the game yet.

The JA forums needs some SERIOUS moderating.

Too many noob LFers coming and spamming the forums...

Originally posted by Tesla
Raven have put there heart and soul in to this game and you already want a patch, talk about hard to impress :mad:

Look not every thing about JA is going to impress or amaze everyone, man this is just like what happened with JO, there were guys like you complaing that "this is crap" "that sucks", man just play the damn thing and enjoy it for what it is. :)

If Raven feel the need to release a patch then they will do so, fo now just have your fun in SP if you hate the MP. :)

And don't post anything more about MP without using the Spoiler tag, your ruining it for me, i haven't got the game yet.


Although I agree with most of what you said, I don't see how he, or anyone for that matter, needs to have a spoiler tag when talking about MP. There's no plot, he's not giving away an ending, or telling you how to get by a certain part. How is this ruining MP for you? All he's doing is pointing out a possible flaw, albeit rather harshly. He is entitled to his opinion.

May gosh, the game has been out for 48 hours and people are already declaring it a failure!

Learn the game first before you bash this or that... trust me, it takes time to master the game.

Even if (and this is a hypothetical) you had (illegally) grabbed the warez and played for 2 weeks (tops) you would still not be a master, especially since you only had a chance to play against a very limited pool of people.

And even now the number of players online is very very small compared to what it will be once the worldwide release has had a chance to sink in (again, most stores won't even get the game in stock until Friday). And these players are still learning, just like you.

One can't expect to master this game simply because you mastered the demo, or even JK2. The subtle differences make ALL the difference.

Then there's my little pet peeve wherein people judge the entire game based on their experiences in saber-only mode. ; p

You're entitled to your own opinion, I just think you lack experience that's all. The game should be more enjoyable once you've learned the counters.

Before you waste your breath (too late) whining for a patch, why don't you learn the game first? Seriously.

Originally posted by megafu
All the special moves are useless... MP is worse than JO 1.04. Please fix this Raven. Please take this game back to where you bought it. It is not for you. Since you cannot master everything in 10 minutes, it must not worth playing. A patch will not make you good at this game :rolleyes:

Anyone one who crys out yelling that a game, which he barely been out two days, sucks is a complete moron because there is no way you could have possibly explored the entire game to its limits.

Maybe if it was a true "new game" there would be a lot to learn but let's call it for what it is people:

Jedi Outcast with nice pretty maps and models (and a great SP game, but I am talking MP here) and with a lot of stuff taken out and a few (emphasis on few) new moves/weapons put in.

There is not an entire new physics system to learn other than the nerfed rolls.

There is not an entire new force system (or any new powers really) to learn other than a few tweaks to a couple of powers (that made them not as effective as they were in multiplayer in Jedi Outcast).


There is not an entire new saber combat system to learn.

As for saber combat, a dozen new moves sitting on top of an entirely recycled saber system is no different than going from base game play in Jedi Outcast to a jk++ server and getting a few new saber "styles".

It's not exactly a major learning curve for the experienced player if you know what I mean.




There is not an entire new gun combat system to learn.

I mean learning how to aim with a crosshair is going to apply to any gun, new or old.
And we are talking only 1 new gun here as well.

A lot of the "this sucks" stuff comes from this basic ideology:

Some are mad because it was not a true “new game” where we *did have to learn everything from scratch (think Jedi Knight to Jedi Outcast in terms of evolution) or,

Many are mad because all the good things were stripped out (from Jedi Outcast) or weakened and the only new additions are hardly adequate replacements for the old combos and styles that are no longer possible due to the removal of a few things.


And as for this whole "you can't master it in 2 days thing" yes you are right, but when people like myself "mastered" Jedi Outcast and reached a level of play that 99% of the community never came even close to, and considering that Jedi Academy is about 85% Jedi Outcast content (in terms of game play dynamics), I think some of us may have a clue and know a little more about "mastering" game play dynamics than a lot of you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is the truth.

i only play sabers but:

nf:
special moves take force now, why? they already leave you open to attack and that's why they weren't used by elite players hardly at all so why make people who use special moves pay double for using them.
kata = crap, who wants a script that forces you to attack in place for 5 seconds leaving you totally open.
with double sabers it's just a flail fest, no finesse in that.

ff:
there's no way as it stands for a 1 v 1 with 2 decent players to end. kick i think can be turned on/off, but doesn't do the damage, plus combos are nerfed with the fallen opponent being able to kick up and do more damage wtf?
means no grip kick.
grip is nerfed, so no grip and hide.
but for some reason they left drain on... great, so now the nub who runs around with drain down is basically unkillable. this game has managed to become even more defense-based than 1.04.

and all of you need to stfu about owning. you don't know even know what that word means.

K, the games been out for like two days, and granted its alot like Jo but theres enough new stuff (especially saber combat) that itll take more then two days to perfect new strategies (and i dont care how much of a JO junkie you were, it takes more then two days to master the new stuff) Its a different Style of Play, get used to it.

Seems like theres alot of arrogant newbs floatin around this forum too, somehow i think you guys need to stop actin like a bunch of twelve year olds and grow up. "and all of you need to stfu about owning. you don't know even know what that word means." I mean come on, its a friggin game, who gives a crap who ownes and who doesnt. Take a valium or somethin

But to sum it all up Plain and simple like, dont bitch and complain before you even get used to the new strategies that JA has implimented. Theyrell be patches, mods etc. to your hearts content down the road, but till then, at least give the game a bit of a chance.

cheeto101 I'm going to be civil and I'm not going to flame you but I don't really think you have any clue the difference in "skill" level there is between people like myself and pyro and the "average player".

I played Jedi Outcast from the day it came out and I played through every single patch and never gave up because even when 1 or 2 moves got taken out I still knew there was plenty of stuff left to work with.

the problem a lot of us serious players have with Jedi Academy is what is "left over" from Jedi Outcast is the weaker stuff we never used and what is "new" in Jedi Academy is basically fancy looking but ineffective stuff when used on *experienced players.

Sure those Katas look really pretty and do wonders on the bots in single player but trust me; those new special moves are utterly useless on experienced players coming over from Jedi Outcast.


Oh sure you may kill a random newbie on a public server with them, but as I stated above, playing against competition level players/clans is a whole different thing.

Another main gripe is the elimination of complex force based combos that all revolved around the kick system in Jedi outcast.

Why the double tap kicks were eliminated in Jedi Academy is beyond me.

Full Force dueling is really the most glaring example of why this game seemed to have been developed strictly for the “flash” and almost no thought being put into the game play dynamics.

-Duels now have weaker sabers.

-Duels (Full Force) still have an incredibly fast way of regenerating damage (drain).

-Duels no longer have fast “instant killer” combos like grip kicking (100 damage combo) and back to back pull-throw-kicks (50 damage per combo).

-Special moves that do the most damage cost 25-50 of your force pool but none of them are instant 1 hit killers.

See where this is going?

No?

Ok think of it like this:

In a match where 2 people can heal faster than they can cause damage do you see the serious flaw in the combat system that was made?

I sure as hell do.

my friends and i got the full game yesterday, and lanned it straight away, so we had a 4 player MP FFA match, and i must say that the special moves are devastating if you're in close to anyone using them.

On many occasions, one person would kill the other three using one special move.
Kick is very fun, we'd do a kick-kick match, where two of us would repeatedly kick each other over, doing the forward kick to get off the ground. Its very satisfying to kick someone into an 'abyss' tho :)

Push/Pull works better than jk2, in my opinion, you actually have to aim at someone now. Playing jk2, you could be pulling at someone, with little success, then all of a sudden you get a kill because some random guy was pulled into a hole by you...

Although, i dont think pulling and pushing map objects (weapons/health etc etc) is in MP, i wouldve really liked that, make you feel like a real jedi :)

And one other thing, instant kill combos take the skill out of the game, if you can repeatedly kill someone in one shot, it just makes the game stupid. Learn how to fight with a saber properly. Use the wall-jumps! (I love those!)

Originally posted by Matariel
Push/Pull works better than jk2, in my opinion, you actually have to aim at someone now. Playing jk2, you could be pulling at someone, with little success, then all of a sudden you get a kill because some random guy was pulled into a hole by you...


Uh, hello? Push/Pull at level 3 had a cone AOE. Thus the concept of "pushing or pulling multiple people at once."

Originally posted by Matariel


And one other thing, instant kill combos take the skill out of the game, if you can repeatedly kill someone in one shot, it just makes the game stupid. Learn how to fight with a saber properly. Use the wall-jumps! (I love those!)

umm ok not trying to be a jerk but you do realize how impractical that is in competitive play and how much it shows you lack the experience of a skilled player right?

I'm going to break this down one more time nice and slow:

You can "fight me properly" all you like, without high damage/instant kill combos I can and will drain back any and all damage you cause faster than you can inflict it.

Take two players with this mentality and matches simply do not end until one says "screw it kill me" and lets the other kill him.

Now multiply that by 10 rounds with no time limit.

That ^ is how league and ladder play goes.

I had ladder matches in Jedi Outcast that lasted 2 and 3 hours.
The reason was because both myself and my opponent were experienced and played defensive because we knew one wrong move meant we would be killed.

The skill was there because when you have something to fear you have to be cautious and play smart.

Does a tight rope walker sprint across the tight rope in the circus?

Of course not.

But now in Jedi Academy those 2-3 hours matches will be because we simply can not inflict damage faster than they can heal it back.

I can rush in, play like a total fool and never have to worry about be killed because I made a stupid mistake.

Multiply that by 2 players and you have one very long drawn out boring match where nothing that requires strategy or skill is ever required.

gee thats funny, cause i just got off of a server where
A: It didnt matter what saber you were using, dual, single our double, it was still possible to win, everyone was winning.
and B: Katas were being used, and were gettin kills

I too have played JO since it first came out, ive been through every single ladder map and rip off created, ive played dozens of mods (Style over Substance Bein the Best ever created :D ) and yet, after playin JA, im finding that the katas are still useful when properly implimented and im also finding that dual sabers are more then just swinging wildly.

I honestly dont care how "good" at JO you think you are, or how much better then the average player you think you are. The fact of the matter is that most of the stuff implimented in JA like the Katas are fun, and usefull if you give them a chance. The games been out for like 48 hours, give it a chance. And if you dont like the force in duals, play forcelsess servers, on the server i was just on, there was force, but no one was usin it cause we all found it more fun not too. Find a decent noob free server and its all good.

One strategy that ive seen come up, is that when dual sabers use the saber shield thing, use the roll stab to get them, but even that doesnt work all the time, cause if you catch the other person off guard with the saber shield, theyre basically fried anyways.
The double bladed kata is def good for a straigh out attack, it spins so much that its hard to get a good attack in and you have to time a counter attack just perfectly to be effective.
For the singles, i havnt used the light kata much or the medium. The heavy is good for breakin through defenses and as you can still turn a little when usin it, its possible to score some decent hits with it.

Well, the game seems to be marketed around giving more advantage to *new* players, meaning the skills that we used to practice in our own time, GK PK PTK, are now useless, nonexistent. So I think the newbs in this case would love the game, because of the lack of danger of being new to the game. The veterans on the other hand would have a hard time regaining lost skill.

BTW, the ones who are complaining are probably people that invented half of the crap you used to use in jk2, so please have some respect.

heh, considering im defending the People Who Created JO and JA's work , i think i am having respect. Personally, i have alot more respect for raven and the crew at lucasarts then the gamers who play the games. (Invented half the stuff i used in JO??? dude, all those strategies dont come from core groups of people, the gameplay evolves, people find what works, and it slowly spreads around, its no one or two people, its the comunitee that creates good gaming strategies, at least thats what ive observed)

Theres a hella lotta time gone into makin the game, and hows their work repaid?? A bunch of people who complain about all the new features before theyve even given the game a full 2 days of play.
But thats my rant for the day.
Personally, as a Dark Forces Series Vet myself, i think JA is a great addition to the series. And Besides, anythin thats horribly glaring about the game will either be absolved in a patch, or some vets will make a mod that will change everythin, so its all pretty moot anyways.

Originally posted by cheeto101
gee thats funny, cause i just got off of a server where
A: It didnt matter what saber you were using, dual, single our double, it was still possible to win, everyone was winning.
and B: Katas were being used, and were gettin kills

I too have played JO since it first came out, ive been through every single ladder map and rip off created, ive played dozens of mods (Style over Substance Bein the Best ever created :D ) and yet, after playin JA, im finding that the katas are still useful when properly implimented and im also finding that dual sabers are more then just swinging wildly.



umm "ladder map"?


I'm talking about competitive gaming leagues not single player fan made maps.

www.teamwarfare.com)

Damn people, are you guys really this clueless?

I'm not trying to get frustrated but it's like with every reply you guys show just how little you know about this game and it's predecessor...


Originally posted by Cupid
Well, the game seems to be marketed around giving more advantage to *new* players, meaning the skills that we used to practice in our own time, GK PK PTK, are now useless, nonexistent. So I think the newbs in this case would love the game, because of the lack of danger of being new to the game. The veterans on the other hand would have a hard time regaining lost skill.

BTW, the ones who are complaining are probably people that invented half of the crap you used to use in jk2, so please have some respect.

Thank you very much, that is dead on true.

I don't see any problem with MP.
:confused:

I dont have the game, ill get it the 27th, but i read all the posts carefully (because i am interested in your thoughts of MP) and i wondered, why are you all so concerned about drain if you can counter it with absorb?
While i was playing the demo, i realized that a side slash, using red stance for example, takes out a litle damage, but an up-down slash does a lot of damage, and if you leave your saber in his body for half a second you will kill the other.
It would be nice if you all say what kind of saber you are using, because as i said in another thread, the game wasnt made by morons, i man, raven knew what he was doing, and they aded and removed stuff its because thats the way to balance the game.
In JO all they had to balance was dark and light side, and well the single stances. But in JA they had to do the balance of using dark or light side in any of the kind of saber types. If you do the math its very very complicated.

Ohh and one last thing, weiner dog you sound like a complete moron, i cant wait to kick your friging ass, i dont like you, but i agree with you.

:hit4: :smirk2: :punch1

why do you play JA?

for the star wars stuff and the fun of it?

or do you only play it *only for the fun of serious competition on gaming leagues and competitions?


If you are a star wars fan it is fun (mp) and looks really cool and movie like.


If you a a serious gamer it's pretty sad and so baby like that a 2 year old could "master" it in 30 minutes.

isnt re-working the way you play the game pretty much the point of a new game?

you know, having to try new stuff and see what style your gonna have to play

i tried MP 2day (FF power duels) and it was pretty fun
im still trying to figure out what saber i should use cause i know that my old style wont work

there probably are things that are gonna have to change in the game but you should try changing yourself first

i knew what you were talkin about, I simply enjoy the ladder maps (they seem a lot more slick, i cant wait for some for JA). And frankly, if your as great of a player as you say you are, youd simply just get good at JA and learn a few new moves.

I agree with crow_nest, i dont see whats wrong with multi, Its fun, it needs a few tweaks granted, but those will come with time, and finally, it NEW, something the JK comunitee has needed for awhile.

Originally posted by AxVegetA
I dont have the game, ill get it the 27th, but i read all the posts carefully (because i am interested in your thoughts of MP) and i wondered, why are you all so concerned about drain if you can counter it with absorb?
While i was playing the demo, i realized that a side slash, using red stance for example, takes out a litle damage, but an up-down slash does a lot of damage, and if you leave your saber in his body for half a second you will kill the other.
It would be nice if you all say what kind of saber you are using, because as i said in another thread, the game wasnt made by morons, i man, raven knew what he was doing, and they aded and removed stuff its because thats the way to balance the game.
In JO all they had to balance was dark and light side, and well the single stances. But in JA they had to do the balance of using dark or light side in any of the kind of saber types. If you do the math its very very complicated.

Ohh and one last thing, weiner dog you sound like a complete moron, i cant wait to kick your friging ass, i dont like you, but i agree with you.

:hit4: :smirk2: :punch1

1- Drain > absorb. Much, much greater.

Why is that? You simply wait until it runs out, run to keep out of pull throw range then drain it right back and are at 100 hp and have an opponent with no force to defend himself.

If the absorber uses forced based attacks like pull throws he pulls himself out of the absorb state that much faster and if he only uses basic saber attacks.. Well it’s not that hard to strafe jump out of range of a guy flailing with a saber…

It was the same in Jedi Outcast, and the same in Academy.

If you were any good or knew anything about the game you would know there are things “in theory” that should work but do not always play out that way in actual matches with experienced players.

2-As for calling people “morons” can you say you ever had an undefeated record in competition play on ladder and leagues in the year and a half Jedi outcast was out?

I can.

Can you say you are part of a clan that has multiple members who all held #1 spots on both the individual duel ladders and team based ladders for over a year straight with several undefeated records?

I can.

Please, before you start flaming or bragging about killing some random “Padawan” with your Kata keep in mind there is a whole community of competitive gamers who can do things in these games you have never even seen, let alone could hope to ever pull off on your own.



I mean really guys, no offense but you really seem to know nothing about mp game play mechanics.

Do you know why push-throw-kicks were more effective in Jedi Outcast than pull-throw-kicks?

(The stun animation for push was slightly longer and gave you a larger window to land the kicks)

Do you know why dark rage was an amazing power if used right in Jedi Outcast full force saber only CTF/TeamFFA, but totally useless in Jedi Academy?

(rage+dfa was the single best way to kill a capper in CTF but now that specials cost force you can only do 2 dfa's after the initial 50 activation cost)

I mean really guys, there is so much you guys don't know about this game beyond "my guy looks like darth maul!" that I don't even know why I'm wasting my time trying to open your eyes...


:rolleyes:

Originally posted by the weiner dog!
1- Drain > absorb. Much, much greater.

Why is that? You simply wait until it runs out, run to keep out of pull throw range then drain it right back and are at 100 hp and have an opponent with no force to defend himself.

If the absorber uses forced based attacks like pull throws he pulls himself out of the absorb state that much faster and if he only uses basic saber attacks.. Well it’s not that hard to strafe jump out of range of a guy flailing with a saber…

It was the same in Jedi Outcast, and the same in Academy.

If you were any good or knew anything about the game you would know things that “in theory” that should work does not always play out that way in actual matches with experienced players.

2-As for calling people “morons” can you say you ever had an undefeated record in competition play on ladder and leagues in the year and a half Jedi outcast was out?

I can.

Can you say you are part of a clan that has multiple members who all held #1 spots on both the individual duel ladders and team based ladders for over a year straight with several undefeated records?

I can.

Please, before you start flaming or bragging about killing some random “Padawan” with your Kata keep in mind there is a whole community of competitive gamers who can do things in these games you have never even seen, let alone could hope to ever
pull off on your own.

Hahaha, dude all i know is that i was good at JO 1.02 (to be modest, ;) ) and i dont really care if you consider me a noob or if you have 100 titles of some nerd competitions, and worst of all, seems that you are proud of them (keep them for your children).
You know what part was the funniest? when u used the dark letters to say competitions........ hahaha

And well, about the topic, if you wana run away from me till i run out of absorb, either of two, or you are a coward noob without skill or you are a really coward noob without skill.
A cheap mediocre attitude that doesnt deserve to be considered as a thactic for an "experienced player". hahahahaaaaaaaa

you guys, before I would get depressed about the 100 or so people who come here and spam saying they dont like the game or its trash, I would remind myself they still bought it and play it. and I would also remind myself of the probably over 1 million in sales of all the titles thus far...and certainly over 250,000 for JO, and probably for JA....and all the 95 percent of them who love it.

the naysayers are such a small group.

JO v1.03 > JO 1.02, 1.04, JA 1.0. Nuff said...

Raven killed JO with 1.04.. now they've made it even more noob with JA 1.0. Have fun spammin and prayin.

Everything Wiener Dog says is true... fix this RAVEN

hey weiner dog, what was your playing name in JO.

To those claiming they are so "leet" please post a link that proves it. I can claim just about anything and try to get myself a reputation, but proving it is hard.


Now, onto the meat.

Although never did competition matches in JA or JK, i was decent. I know the problems (aka drain) and i know the cheap strats (grip+kick). I miss being able to kick flip when some moron came head on. But times change and either you adapt... or dont play. Very simple.

I was part of a very good group for Tribes 2 CTF tournies. But Tribes2 got some patches that ruined my possition in the team (scout ship pilot/flag chaser) by making the scout only slightly quicker then the transport. Now i couldnt intercept well and i couldnt chase a good capper. I had to make a decision.

Either find a new possition, or stop playing.

I stoped playing. But i never once went to Dynamax and said "you suck now, you ruined everything". Frankly it helped most gamers but hurt competition. Welcome to the real world where the MAJORITY rules.

Dont like it, dont play or stick it out until someone (you and your leet group maybe?) makes a mod that has everything you want.


Either way shut up with the whining.