I read PC gamer today about JA and this magazine as been one of the Jedi Knight series strongest supporters (it voted JK the best game ever once) and they gave it only 70% this shocked me as before they gave JK1 91% and JK2 92% they referred to it as Outcast with a few more bells and whistles and said the levels were bigger but not better and that it was far too simple. I think they would have given it a higher mark if it was an expansion pack but after playing the demo I have to agree the game plays very much like Outcast; I really hope the next game if it is released is on a Doom IIIesque engine and you get to play Kyle Katarn again because quite frankly I don't think you can do much more with Jaden and bringing someone new to the series would be crap and lets be honest: Kyles "Da" Man.

I`m inclined to agree with you. From what i have seen of JKA it just seems like Raven have took some of the best mods from JK2 and packaged it and stuck a price tag on it. I`m sticking with JK2 until i can get JKA cheap off ebay.

i wouldn't give it such a bad review. here in germany the "pc games" gave it a 90%, which is a little bit to much. a 87% would have done it too.

it should have been an expansion pack. remember the good reviews "mysteries of the sith" had? it was not realy much different than jk1, but because it was just an expansion...and so on.
a new game should realy be based on a new engine. but that could take years. i don't know if raven can go on like this forever. elite force1-2, jk2-3, all first person shooter with a linear, movie like story. all nice, atmospheric and compact games. but this wears off i think. mabe they tried to go an alternate way this time. baby steps... first just the choice how the player looks, next mabe a non linear gameplay and a more epic story. who knows...

Originally posted by NITEMARE
a new game should realy be based on a new engine. but that could take years.

I disagree. :) I seriously don't believe every new game in a series should have a new engine. That's just pandering to the graphics junkies, and selling a game on the basis of whizz-bang special fx, IMHO.

If the story is good and strong enough, and the game content is compelling and enjoyable, while building on the strengths and addressing the weaknesses of the preceding game, then that's all that really matters to me.

Now that my copy of JA has arrived, I plan to play it and see for myself. I'll reserve judgement until then - and I certainly won't base my opinion on some review in a game mag. I've totally disagreed with PC Gamer before...

70%? That's impossible, isn't it? How can PC Gamer give it such a low score? :mad:
Here in Finland it was given 89% by Pelit -magazine and I think it's OK.

yea ign gave it a 88% on their site, guess we will have to see for ourselves when we all have it and beat it

Personally I'd give it 80% (90 if it was was an expansion) however yeah I can wait for another engine to play it on as I'm sure Jedi Academy and its MOdswill keep me happy till then and as I'll be off at University I wont have much time for video games.

yes StormHammer, i would normaly say the same thing. BUT, it has been going on to long with this Q3 engine. i understand the reasons why raven has to work with it. they are total speciallists with this engine after so many years, it would take forever to convert to a new one.

ok there are always more important things than fancy grafix. but JO and JA are games, which are based on the atmosphere the grafic makes possible. at some point, it's just necessary to upgrade the engine and allow more freedom for mappers and modellers. also gamplay features are often bound on the limits of the engine.
i don't blame raven for releasing JA so soon, but without a new engine and totaly new features. it's a marketing decision to make the best out of the old engine, which ensures the quick development of the game and to make use of the fame of the predecessor.
but i realy hope for a total new game after episode 3.

I haven't played it yet (won't be til next week) so I won't rate it til then... however, I think it's unfair to say that all sequels need a new engine. I remember loving all the Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale series then they decided to stop using the engine they were using and go for something new and 3D, I really didn't like Neverwinter Nights and I still haven't bothered to get more than halfway through the game.

That saying, then X-Wing Alliance should've been an expansion pack of X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter because it used an updated engine of said game >.> I bloody think not. It would've been injustice to make XWA an expansion pack seeing all the improvisations it brought to the series. Shame on you, shame on you graphic oriented gamers. XD

that is another genre. always consider the genre, and what it means for the requirements. a rpg has the grafics as the last important requirement, thats the tradition. and fps like doom and quake are always about grafics and fast action. this aplies to JO and JA. the story is short and exciting, atmospheric... the Q3 engine is realy at the end of its era...

You might not know these games, but Might and Magic 7 and 9 are very different. MM7 has most of the good points of the predecessors, features a one-game-old engine, and is a great game. MM9 is based on Lithtech engine, but donwgraded a lot of everything else, increased linearity in levels etc.

Environment graphics in JA are great (I have seen the demo so far), and the game is not that taxing on system resources as some others like U2. Characters look really good!
The melee action kicks the ass of many other games - and I think the new saber setups add to it.

I find the gameplay upgraded, which is exactly the way it should be. So to conclude no, a new game in the series shouldn't necessarily be based on a new engine.

Im sorry to say it, but I agree with PC Gamer for once, the game was too easy, now I had it on Tuesday and it taken me about a day and a half to complete, the lack of difficulty and making the game much more than just a 'expansion' pack feel to Jedi Outcast.

It was plain to simple, the new Q3:TA modded engine couldnt cope with the ammount of graphical shaders and lighting that was been throwen at it, now my 3D should just churn through it as I use the card to create 3D Animation's at Ј560+ and 256DDR on board I would expect better results.

The maps were great huge and playable, but it just made it all too easy, not enough desicisions to made.

Oh well at least I have a new game to edit for the TC.

Well, after all, Jedi Academy has nice levels, but not that good ones, to be honest.

Jedi Outcast Single Player and Multiplayer had waaaay better maps, but of course JA beats JO in being more advanced with the lightsabers.

I agree JO being mostly better in all the things, but with a little map importing from JK2 (including the famous map jedicouncilgc)

Well, that's my two Ђ or more like :-

Ahh the siege maps, play well, glad to see that the SAGA code was used and there is no hidden bits in the game that I can see so far. Im just glad that I/We dont have to worry about coding it as it done for us.

The game really is a lot like outcast. I would say 70% is fair from a standpoint of expectations and standards in the series.

I didnt agree but did understand PCG rating JK best game ever, it's just that you can't mess with success, and logically, each new game can only change so much.

The graphics tail has waved the gameplay dog for years now. I applaud the decision to stick with the same engine for more than one game, rather than make a lot of fans' computers obsolete with every new release.

============

The review in question complained that JA was simplistic compared to Outcast. Another big complaint is that the game is "dark," making it hard to see needed objects.

Darkness is what force sense is for, and force sense is great.

As for the lack of puzzles and jumping, the amount of inter-related jumpiing and puzzle-solving in Outcast was somewhere between excessive and ridiculous. Outcast should have been named "Hopalong Jedi."

There were times while I was playing Outcast, especially when trying to set up the com-link with Rogue Squardron, where I'd sing the an old song from a Bugs Bunny cartoon to pass the time:

"Here's the Easter Bunny, hooray
The happy Easter Bunny, hooray
The whole thing is looney.
It's touched in the head.
The whole thing is gooney.
I should have stayed in bed."

Lucasarts didn't change the sequel to Outcast in a vaccuum. They obviously did market research. Things about Outcast that fans obviously didn't like included:

1. No light saber or force powers until well into the game, and no tutoring at all in how to use a saber. The assumption was that you already knew what to do from having played previous games in the series, so you were sent straight to a barroom brawl.

2. Far too much jumping.

3. "Gamey," artificial puzzles.

I appreciate the designers' response. That reviewer didn't.

Pffff.... Never liked PC Gamer. PC Zone gave it 89%, didn't reward a classic because it's a bit too much like JO even though IT IS better than Jedi Outcast...
Judge for yourself though, Graphics don't make a game, gameplay does.

Frankly what places give games is simply down to the individual reviewer. Personally I have enjoyed JK:JA immensly, I got it yesterday and played all the way through on the darkside already, yes it is a little easy, but not much easier than the original JK2. MP is a little scrappy at the moment, but it will improve as people get used to the new sabers.

Personally I wouldn't give it above 90, as it really isn't that original, it is, afterall, based very heavily on JK2, on the otherhand it is a lot of fun, and there is definitly more there than an expansion pack worth, I am happy as it being standalone, happy that I bought, and will play it a lot over the coming days, I would say 85% -> 88%, as it is still an excellant game, it just isn't that different to JK2.

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Judge for yourself though, Graphics don't make a game, gameplay does. Absolutely.