:mob:

Who here thinks the Imperial Commandos (Naval Troopers) should be back in the game?

I never understood why they weren't in JO.

If they were in it they would be a hell of a lot harder than stormies and capable to act independantly without their officers.

What do u guys think?

I'd like to see Imperial Commandos in JA. I liked fighting them in JK and sorely missed them in JO. I hope that they return!

i seriously doubt it...they havent been mentioned in any article (that i know of) nor seen in any screenshot. also, the fact that JO and JA are more about lightsaber fighting with enemies (compared to JK, which was gun based) makes me even more doubtful. of course, id like to see them anyway.

Yeah, besides, playing as him in MP is a good idea. It would be easy to whip up the skin, since he's basically a Republic commando model minus the jacket and add some big gloves.

Why? I thoguht the officers were big enough threats (before you got the saber). They'd be little different, with a saber. Really, they would probably be easier than stormtroopers. If they made them like in JK, they would be messed up, because the ones in JK had a 6 foot vertical leap (like Kyle in JK, preforce). :D

Well, they could be identical to the Black uniformed officers ( the e-11 autofire officers) aside from skin. Which would justify the reason why you run into so many of them. Unlike those officers, where they were rarely seen compared to stormtroopers.

If there are going to be Imperial Workers in JA (which I don't know If they are), then anyone could simply replace the worker with the commando.

I'd like it if they're in there. I love their helmets. :D

If they are in, I hope they're tougher than Stormtroopers in some ways, but instead of being like the officers in JO, they should have less HP than the Stormtroopers. I mean, what's the meaning with their white shiny armor if not to protect them? :rolleyes:

Well, although the armor is technically for protection, it mainly serves as a terror weapon. I'd say about 90% of the Stormtroopers never went into battle in the trilogy so it's mainly used as an icon and was never designed properly for combat. But thats just my opinion.
:stormmask

BTW, there have been a couple skins and one model of the Imperial Commando, but I'm really looking forward to the one at HapSlash's JKII Website (hapslash.tripod.com) under A New Hope and then Imperial Navy Trooper (which is the same thing as the commando).

But is it really realistic that a Imperial officer with no armor, can take almost twice as much damage as a Stormtrooper with armor?

In Dark Forces I liked that the officers could take less damage than the Stormtroopers.

StormTroopers, armed with the Star wars equivalent of Small Machine guns and full body armor, really shouldn't be as wimpy as they are in the games. In Episode 4 they seem pretty 1337 up until Tk-421 gives them a bad name by abandoning his post.

Which is another thing entirely - what army EVER gives full body armor to general infantry? Especially when weapons like lightsabers exist, and can cut through them like butter.

Seems like a waste of money, that's all.

Well, in the movies that armor does nothing... I mean, look in RotJ when the Ewoks fire arrows and toss rocks on them. They crack and get pierced by stoneheaded arrows... Seriously, would they stand any chance against a blaster bolt then? Not really.

Conclusion: They should be killed in a single shot. Only game balance makes them not to be that (except for a headshot)

Originally posted by SettingShadow
But is it really realistic that a Imperial officer with no armor, can take almost twice as much damage as a Stormtrooper with armor?

In Dark Forces I liked that the officers could take less damage than the Stormtroopers.

I agree, the armor should make Stormtroopers a bit tougher than an officer, and all the officers in the game should have been more like the gray-blue pistol-wielding Imperial that dies in just one or two shots with the bryar pistol.

Well there's a few possible explanations that I've thought of over the years about Stormtrooper armor and why it appears so useless:

1) It was originally intended to stop things like bullets or fists and weaker weapons (like riot armor). It could be like a modern bullet proof vest: ie: it won't make a hit injury free, but it will make it survivable, so that the trooper may not die, but he may still be taken out of the fight. I guess they don't worry about Troopers being taken prisoner.

2) Since the Jedi were on their side at the time of the Clone Wars, and since the Jedi are now all but extinct, Lightsabers may have been banned (except for Vader's personal use that is) in the Empire. So who cares if they can cut through stormtrooper armor? Besides, without somebody who has Jedi-like reflexes, a Lightsaber would be suicidal, considering he can't block blaster shots and would be mowed down. As with above, for the kinds of jobs the Troopers needed to do, the armor would be more than adequate.

3) Stormtrooper armor is meant mostly for NCB (nuclear, chemical, biological) warfare. Ie: with sealed armor stuff like nerve gas, tear gas, radiation, etc, has little to no effect on them (at least short term). Also they can survive for a short time in vaccuum.

4) Stormtrooper armor is optimized to resist blaster shots, not blunt physical instruments (it could be a slightly flexible plastic rather than a hard rigid metallic substance like steel). Thus it would be light weight and resist blasters, but could still be penetrated by heavier objects (like stone tipped arrows or heavy rocks). So like Borg shields, they are good against one thing, bad against another. So how are the Rebels able to penetrate them so easily? Perhaps the Rebels, having been former Imperials and having fought them so long, have realized that setting their blasters on the highest possible settings (which eats ammo faster) they can puncture the suites or at least disable the troopers (even if they are not dead, they are out of the fight). Or they aim for the rubber "body glove" (the black thing underneath) which is far less resistant than the armor itself. This could also help to explain the arrows (aim for the body glove instead of the armor).

5) Even the strongest armor won't survive sheer raw power. If you're in a body armor, and somebody drops a 50 pound rock on your head, your neck could be snapped and you would die, even if the helmet isn't even dented. The armor survives, but the person inside is killed. Likewise with a blaster shot that transfers the heat or kinetic energy into the suit enough to kill the man inside without necessarily destroying the suit.

6) Perhaps the Empire, realizing they had won over the Jedi and their enemies reduced their budgets (to save money for things they really wanted like Death Stars and SSD's) and made armor that looked the same as before, but was cheaper quality and lighter. Their enemies wouldn't know the difference unless they attacked first or had intelligence on the switch.


And we can always theorize that better techniques for armor production that made them stronger without hindering the troopers movements came about in the later games (why it takes 3 hits in JK and up to 6 in JK2).

As to the Officers taking the same or more hits than a Stormtrooper, we can theorize that they wear body armor underneath their uniform (example: in DF1 Kyle Katarn is shown wearing regular clothes and a trench coat, but he has a Stormtrooper like metallic vest under his shirt). It may not be the signature ST armor, but it is similar in part. Also, we know the Biker scouts have lighter armor than Stormtroopers, so its possible that their's is optimized for surviving falls off their bikes (like motorcyclists of today) rather than for surviving blaster shots (and of course in the movies we see them dying mostly from their bikes exploding in their faces or their bodies smacking into red wood trees at high speeds).

The only thing in the films is that they should have shown a Trooper or two survive a glancing blow and crawl to safety or struggle to keep fighting. So I guess the Rebels are just crack shots. ; )


The only part I really didn't like was the part in ROTJ where Leia swats a Scouttrooper in the chest with a stick (a stick!) and it appears to knock him out cold. Now granted, perhaps she somehow used the force by accident (she has Jedi potential, and she did strangle Jabba to death earlier), but it makes the armor appear next to useless. At least they could have shown her use a bigger stick or hit him in the throat or something. ; p

Another theory for Attack of the Clones:

Perhaps, since the Republic's various factions seem to use Droids almost exclusively in battle, perhaps the Clonetrooper armor has some kind of built in jamming effect against Droids. We after all, saw very few casualties on the Clones side and the droids seemed to just be mowed down one after another. Perhaps even the white color and shininess of the armor has something to do with this (bouncing signals off of them and distorting them)?

The Kaminoans, eager to prove their superior skill in biological armies were still up to snuff against mechanical armies, may have done this deliberately, as well as outfitting them with heavy blasters that cut even Droidekas in two with one shot. We know that the Kaminoans are not "just cloners" but also manufacture weapons (the saber dart that Jango used for example) and they surely made the armor (how could they keep it secret otherwise?).

Notice also how the Troopers are able to keep fighting even in that huge dust cloud, while the droids seem to be confused (perhaps their sensors are disrupted? or the signal from the Droid Control ship is being interfered with?).

Though I've heard (non-canon) explanations that Clone trooper armor is heavier than Stormtrooper armor. Perhaps after the wars again, it wasn't deemed necessary to have them always wear the unformtable heavy armor, and so a cheaper and more comfortable (but less protecting) version was created for the Stormtroopers.


One thing that bugged me about JK2 single player, was how anybody who carried a normal blaster dropped NOTHING when killed, not even ammo. Now that you have a BlasTech DL-44 blaster pistol in JA, I think that pistol packing enemies should at least drop a BlasterPack unit. Or are we to assume they died after having expended every single one of their shots?

From what I've gathered, the Imp Commandos are the "regular army" of the Empire, while the Stormtroopers are "special forces" (though of varying degrees of training, like the crappy guards on the Death Star vs. the elite shocktroopers sent to attack Leia's blockade runner and to find the droids on Tatooine). The Officers of course are from the Officer corps who would go through the Imperial Academy. I don't see any in-universe explanation as to why the Stormtroopers and Officers would survive, but all the regular army would be gone. So bring 'em on! Even if they are identical to some other enemy, at least it's another new skin to keep it interesting and more Star Warsy. ; )

Well...according to EU lore, Grand Admirl Thrawn wore armor under his uniform...so the same is likely for other officers.

And I think that clone (and storm) trooper helmets have infrared vision and such, so they can see through the dust cloud. Although you'd think the Super Battle Droids would be equipped for fighting in a huge dust cloud, they were built on a dusty rock, whereas the clones were grown on a pristine, every-thing-is-spotless-white waterworld.

The idea that the brown and black Imperial Officers wear some armor under their clothes does make sense, but it would be completely wrong the way George Lucas visioned Imperial Officers. In the movies, Imperial Officers were seldom in battle, but when they were, they died just as easy as Stormtroopers which were useless as everyone says. Perhaps when the Empire was weakened and became the Remnant, they began to protect their few commanding officers by giving them armor so they wouldn't lose their leaders as quickly. Or maybe Lucasarts just wanted the Imperial Officers to be more of a challenge. Although the standard blue-gray pistol-wielding Imperial isn't much of a challenge.

The other problem with the in helmet HUD theory (which is official) is that how was R2D2 then able to delay the troopers in ESB by firing a big smoke cloud at them?

Unless of course not all Troopers have built in HUD equipment (infared, etc). A few times in the movies you can glimpse a Troopers helmet and see through one eye hole out to the other side (as if it were just a simple helmet). This could be chalked up as a costuming glitch, or it might be another possible explanation.

Or perhaps the gas R2D2 fire was somehow "sooty" or hot enough that it goofed up their IR goggles enough to delay them.


Appearance wise, the Officers don't look like they're meant for battle (except at the back giving orders). In the Endor battle, it appears they were waiting simply to ambush and arrest the Rebel strike team with little resistance. The Commandos appear similar to the black suited officers, except they have big gloves and a helmet (like the Rebel Commandos and the Commandos Queen Amidala had in her personal guard).


One thing I always wondered.. who are the TIE Pilots? Are they Commandos just with breath masks on (since TIE fighters don't have direct life support, they need space suites) or are they Stormtroopers with pilot training?

We also used to think the Imperial Guardsmen were from the Stormtrooper ranks, but not it seems they are from some other source.

Well, George Lucas just couldn't make up his mind. Did he want Stormtroopers to be superior soldiers, or easily-fooled keystone cops? The visual dictionary explains the gadgets that the Stormtrooper helmet uses, but that makes absolutely so sense that they could get lost in a water cloud with all that equiptment. And whenever you can see into an actor's helmet, its just due to a low-budget poorly made movie. (I mean poorly made by all the bloopers, not that the story is bad) The Stormtrooper costumes were very poorly made, as you could see through out A New Hope.

Now, I don't understand how this thread has gone from bringing the Imperial Commandos back in JA to the features of a Stormtrooper helmet. :p

TIE Fighter Pilots are basically just people who enlisted in the Imperial Army/Navy and then requested to be pilots. I read somewhere that only about 10% of those who request are actually accepted and then trained, and the rest of them become Imperial Death Star Gunners.

I see what you're saying about the Stormtroopers. I figured the Death Star Troops were pretty much crap troops (since after all, they thought the battle station was impenetrable, so they would just have boring guard duty for months and months).

The Endor troops were supposed to be the Emperor's "best troops" (maybe they were the best he had left and all the good ones were dead? or maybe he was just exaggerating to scare Luke?). Though there is historical precedent for so-called "Elite" troops doing poorly due to tactical errors and overconfidence (for example the events recalled in "Black Hawk Down" about the mission failure of US special forces in Somalia).

There's a great book called "Military Misfortunes" (by Eliot A. Cohen & John Gooch) which I haven't read in awhile, but it shows historically how superior armies have made major blunders, even to the point of securing victory for their enemies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you may be a little confused. I meant the Death Star GUNNERS. Not the Troopers, the gunners were the ones with the odd-looking helmets that operated the superlaser and the turbolasers of the Death Star.

http://starwars.com/databank/organization/imperialgunner/index.html)

BTW, someone should make a model of this guy, but sadly there's no room for them in single player.

True. I would find it odd if the entire Imperial army was limited to operating on the Death Stars (the first Death Star supposedly had only a million personel on board) with the other 1% as TIE Pilots (how many TIEs does the Empire have? thousands? tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? millions?).

I would think if anything, the Commandos would be more numerous than the Stormtroopers (1.2 million Clonetroopers in AOTC always struck me as a pretty measly force for a Galactic army), though most of them might simply be on board Star Destroyers, with plenty on the Death Stars and SSD's of course, hence the nickname "Naval Troopers."

Though we did see some on the Endor surface, so they can't just be for ship security.

Originally posted by Kurgan
True. I would find it odd if the entire Imperial army was limited to operating on the Death Stars (the first Death Star supposedly had only a million personel on board) with the other 1% as TIE Pilots (how many TIEs does the Empire have? thousands? tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? millions?).

I would think if anything, the Commandos would be more numerous than the Stormtroopers (1.2 million Clonetroopers in AOTC always struck me as a pretty measly force for a Galactic army), though most of them might simply be on board Star Destroyers, with plenty on the Death Stars and SSD's of course, hence the nickname "Naval Troopers."

Though we did see some on the Endor surface, so they can't just be for ship security.

Now I am confused. Your post doesn't seem to relate at all to what I just sayed.
:confused:

It was more in response to the statement you made right before your last post (the one about George Lucas "not being able to make up his mind").

I thought it would be odd if the entire Imperial Army (ie: the Imperial Commandos/Naval Troopers) were composed of Death Star Gunners (ie: they would be on the Death Stars right?) and TIE Pilots. Obviously we've seen them elsewhere, so they must be doing something right?

If the vast majority of personel in the Empire's armed forces are Commandos, you'd think they'd have other duties. Originally we all assumed the Stormtroopers were the most numerous, but now it seems (at least to me) George doesn't intend for us to think that. Hopefully Episode III will help clear this up.

Well, Stormtroopers were the most plentiful force of the Empire, and when you enlist in the Empire you start out as a Stormtrooper. Navy Troopers were elite troopers that were picked from the Stormtrooper ranks by Grand Moff Tarken. We saw very few of anything except Stormtroopers in the movies, the Death Star Gunners were only seen on the Death Stars, the Navy Troopers as you said, had boring guard duty on the ships and were also in the Endor Bunker managing the shield controls, and TIE Fighter Pilots were only seen in their ships and briefly evacuating the 2nd Death Star. George probably did intend on Stormtroopers being the regular cannon-fodder forces of the Empire.

Now back to the other issue of what their health would be in the game, the commandos probably do wear some armor under their uniform since they are technically a defence unit unlike the Imperial Officers who are not meant for fighting. (when Han, Luke, & Chewie got into the detention block in Stormtrooper armor, the officer had to reach for a stowed weapon while the Navy Troopers had them out in their hands. I was kind of disapointed that there were no Scout Troopers or AT-AT Pilots in the game like there was in MotS.

****JA SPOILER****

Since JA goes to Hoth, there will be Snowtroopers, maybe AT-AT Pilots, but maybe not since I haven't seen them or AT-ATs in the game. Scout Troopers are unlikely too since I haven't seen any of them, but there are special Hoth Scout Troopers shown in the vehicle cross-sections book, but it's unlikely they will be in JA.

It's just the SPOILER tag.

[ spoiler ] hidden text here [ / spoiler ]

(remove spaces for effect)

Thanks! :thumbsup:

I can use spoiler tags now!

:guard:

I just found out some info on their role in JA.


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They have been upgraded to an imperial officer with a cloaking device, I'm kinda disapointed though because of the title and uniform change.

[ I just showed people how to use spoiler tags. But do they listen? noooooo... ]