Ghoul2 collision is a option in Jedi Outcast (g_saberghoul2collision) that appears to introduce enhanced collision and mid swing parries allowing for much more cinematic dueling (at the same time) offering competitive play.
With this cvar on, and g_sabertracesaberfirst off, saber battling is exceptional in JEDI OUTCAST! Excellent parries and move BREAKERS often occur giving dueling a movie like feel and look, and also provides for some great gameplay.
Unfortunately, I have heard that this cvar will be removed from Jedi Academy! I hope they do something to make up for this or include it, because it is just a fantastic fighting collision system!
I have a funny feeling that the beta from July 2 isn't going to have it... The GHOUL2 collision in JO MP was crap by default, they're probably redoing it.
Monroe just said that SP and MP will be virtually identical in terms of features, unlike JO.
Well it would be good if they remove it and instead hard code it on :)
I believe Raven knows how much more people loved the look of single play jedi outcast then multiplay. While it would probably be impossible to get it like that (without killing pings) im sure they'll work on it.
For one example, I read somewhere that they were gonna do a max of 16 players instead of quakes 32/64. They said quality over quanity.
This tells me they are going to throw in some things that are a little heavier on connection. I.E. the more data being sent the more detailed and fluid the game becomes (usually).
I believe the reason why it wasn't on by default was because of lag issues.
Jeez...I hope that multiplayer sabre combat doesn't HANDLE like single-player. Eg: It's impossible to land kicks in single-player, executing the DFA is slightly different etc. I prefer the control of multi.
Originally posted by Smood
Unfortunately, I have heard that this cvar will be removed from Jedi Academy! I hope they do something to make up for this or include it, because it is just a fantastic fighting collision system!
What about cg_fpls (used to play First Person LightSaber in MP)? Have you "heard" :o it will be removed too? I'm very worried about it.
Originally posted by defalc
Jeez...I hope that multiplayer sabre combat doesn't HANDLE like single-player. Eg: It's impossible to land kicks in single-player, executing the DFA is slightly different etc. I prefer the control of multi. If you look around here, you'll find you're in the vast minority ...
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
If you look around here, you'll find you're in the vast minority ...
Mike
Exactly.
Well enabling ghoul2 collision online doesn't seem to hurt pings very much, and it brings fantastic gameplay and much more movie like fighting.
Opposed to JO's original MP fighting which was basically running around with swings and misses (a lot of misses). Although this system did require some skill, it didn't feel like true saber battling (like ghoul2 does).
Originally posted by Smood
Opposed to JO's original MP fighting which was basically running around with swings and misses (a lot of misses). Although this system did require some skill, it didn't feel like true saber battling (like ghoul2 does). I'm really just a [SP] person, with rare [MP] appearances. Maybe that's why I prefer Jedi Master ... the whole game is about running around killing and no saber-to-saber battles.
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
If you look around here, you'll find you're in the vast minority ...
Mike
no, i'm pretty sure most people prefer the mp's control to the sloppy sp control
Originally posted by ryudom
no, i'm pretty sure most people prefer the mp's control to the sloppy sp control I won't speak for anyone else but myself, but I found SP anything but sloppy - I was very much able to control hits and locations. That was one of the things that thrilled me so much about the game ... not just hack and slash and pray like JK1 ... I actually felt like a Jedi in control of his saber.
Mike
in sp you'd slide around, which you don't in mp. saber is also more controled. maybe you didn't play the 1.03/1.04 patch, i heard 1.02 was sloppy too. the specials and and hits felt sloppier to me as well... especially the medium special
Originally posted by txa1265
If you look around here, you'll find you're in the vast minority ...
Mike
around *here yes, but the majority of people making up the “die hard” mp community don’t even come here or know these forums exist.
I'm talking about the people who bought the game just for the mp content and only play sp as an afterthought.
The majority of us utterly hated the sp physics because they were so clumsy and restricting.
After playing a year and a half of mp only, when I first went to play sp I felt like someone tied a 200 pound rock around my ankle in the way everything was so sluggish and unresponsive compared to mp.
^yes. and i played through SP before i touched MP
You don't need me to tell you this but, obviously it's a matter of opinion. Those of us (like 'unnamed' said) that play JK2 just about all the time in MP are used to (and therefore like) the control there. Those that play mostly SP (txa, etc) like that one. That's what I'm hoping JA will fix, MP and SP are supposedly very similiar, which is a good thing.
EDIT: I did go through SP first, and I remember when first playing MP how different it felt. In a matter of a few days however it seemed natural.
... then I guess I'll be at an advantage if I decide to play some MP :)
Mike
Originally posted by GC256
You don't need me to tell you this but, obviously it's a matter of opinion. Those of us (like 'unnamed' said) that play JK2 just about all the time in MP are used to (and therefore like) the control there. Those that play mostly SP (txa, etc) like that one. That's what I'm hoping JA will fix, MP and SP are supposedly very similiar, which is a good thing. But 'fix' is a relative term, isn't it?
The majority or players - the OVERWHELMING majority of buyers - still play SP only, or maybe a bit of MP. ESPECIALLY for a Star Wars (or Star Trek) game (check out the 25 people playing Elite Force II MP right now :( ). Therefore I am assuming - and I use the weight of the facts that the SP game is in the top 25 'all time' at GameRankings, and that pretty much all of the complaints (outside of the first five levels having no saber) were about MP, to assume that MP will be altered to be like SP, not the other way around, and not likely a mix of both.
Mike
A little off-topic here, but... is it even possible to kick in SP? I didn't think it was. :confused:
Originally posted by boinga1
A little off-topic here, but... is it even possible to kick in SP? I didn't think it was. :confused:
nope.
or if it is I never found out how.
you could jump on top of them and knock them down though
Originally posted by boinga1
A little off-topic here, but... is it even possible to kick in SP? I didn't think it was. :confused: It actually is, but it is darn hard to land. You do the same walk up double-jump thing like in MP , but it rarely does anything but jump. I
played around on the Doomgiver first level ... I disarmed everyone and then tried to kick them.
I landed one.
So I killed them ... all of them ... ;)
Mike
I meant fix meaning that MP and SP would be similiar that's all. Are you sure that more people play JK2 SP than MP? I highly doubt that. Have you been in MP lately? There are about 480 servers and plenty of people playing in them. Maybe I missunderstood you but I don't see how people can still be playing SP 1.5 yrs after release. MP however is looking as good as ever.
These are pieces of the IGN review, which gave it a 9.0/10.
"Too many cutscenes in games are either unnecessary or overly long. While the cutscenes in Jedi Knight II are pretty beefy, there's always enough action going on to keep you interested."
"The enemies themselves aren't too terribly bright...enemies will just walk back and forth along a single path until you kill them."
"If there's one area in which the game could stand a bit of a tweak, it's the puzzles. Don't get me wrong; I loved every crate shoving, dark maze exploring, platform jumping, button pushing minute of it, but most of the puzzles in the game are a little too hard and a lot too ridiculous. Some of them are of the type that's so obvious once you figure it out that you want to kill yourself for not seeing it an hour earlier; others make you question the enemy's logic in putting the button that sends power to the communication array in a tiny room floating high above an abyss that's only accessible by a sequence of catlike jumps.
At least the game has a quick save option.
"
"If there was a second thing that needed to be improved, it would be the lightsaber interface. Overall, it's quite good but it requires a substantial warm-up period"
'The direct approach is also rewarded in the game's awesome multiplayer games. The standard deathmatch and capture the flag modes (in solo and team mode) are included but there's more to be experienced here. The duel mode, in which only two players fight at any time, is intense but there's far too much downtime for the other players between matches. Capture the Ysalamiri is another interesting idea. Each player tries to capture the Ysalamiri, a small lizard that dampens the use of Force powers. You get a chance to buy Force powers before the multiplayer match starts and there are a whole range of new, multiplayer-only Force powers.
The option to add bots for any or all of the opponents is good. The fact that each of the bots has unique preferences and tactics makes it even better. Unfortunately, like Elite Force, the game has two separate executables for the single player and multiplayer portions of the game so you'll have to quit one to start the other. Even so, the multiplayer side of Jedi Knight II will ensure the title stays fresh long after you've saved the galaxy from extinction. "
I really don't see what you mean. All of the complaints (besides the waiting in duels) were either in SP or affected both SP and MP. Of course that's only one review, but IGN is very respectable.
I simply laugh at the comments about singleplayer being clumbsy, that's pure BS.
And first person lightsaber combat is entirely useless, I don't know why anyone would want it, unless they want to loose every battle they fight...
Originally posted by GC256
I meant fix meaning that MP and SP would be similiar that's all. Are you sure that more people play JK2 SP than MP? I highly doubt that. Have you been in MP lately? There are about 480 servers and plenty of people playing in them. Maybe I missunderstood you but I don't see how people can still be playing SP 1.5 yrs after release. MP however is looking as good as ever.
Singleplayer still makes up the bulk of the gaming world. People buy a game, play the SP, and that's it.
Maybe clumsy was not the best choice of words.
How about much more restricted and slower so as to accommodate those with slower reflexes or those who chose to use a game pad and/or joystick?
The major speed boost in the overall game physics and the *unrestricted player movement (compare the nerfed player roll in sp to the crisp and fast one in mp for an easy example) can not be denied.
Imagine how utterly boring and mundane a game of CTF on warring factions would be with sp physics. It would be like watching a game of senior citizen scooter tag.
I'm not saying sp physics are bad, I'm simply saying for those of us that thrive on the speed and freedom that came with mp physics, sp is really a watered down, slower restrictive experience for us.
Sp really reminded me of the typical “console FPS” feel you get when you try to play games like RTCW on say, a PS2.
Sluggish, unresponsive and just flat out slow, and that should not be the case on a PC platform when using a mouse & keyboard set up, but it was when compared to mp.
Originally posted by GC256
I meant fix meaning that MP and SP would be similiar that's all. Are you sure that more people play JK2 SP than MP? I highly doubt that. Have you been in MP lately? There are about 480 servers and plenty of people playing in them. Maybe I missunderstood you but I don't see how people can still be playing SP 1.5 yrs after release. MP however is looking as good as ever.
What Emon said:
Originally posted by Emon
Singleplayer still makes up the bulk of the gaming world. People buy a game, play the SP, and that's it.
Think about it - there are probably a couple or so thousand people playing JO on average, right? And, what - hundreds of thousands or so of copies of the game sold? Imagine if you could figure out the number of individuals who had actually played MP - more than say a couple of hours, since less than that is like not playing at all. What do you figure - 25,000? 50,000? Again, a vast minorty of the SP numbers.
That doesn't mean that if you could poll all purchasers of JKII you would find that same balance. Most people play a game and then shelve it - many people never finish. I know I'm a rarity in that I actually HAVE played JKII SP again and again for the last 1.5 years. Most games I shelve after finishing, but many I leave on my HD in case I decide to pop some heads in SoFII, for example. But also people don't all buy games when they first come out, they often get them later or just when they happen upon them. So you may have an equal balance between MP and SP now. I'm actually glad to see how well (despite all of the b*tching you see around here) the MP community has sustained itself over the 1.5 years - after a short burst it settled in and has stayed fairly consistent. Very respectable actually ...
All I'm saying is that the market for Star Wars games is predominantly SP, and that LA/Raven would be loathe to ignore the needs of that market.
As for reviews ... always a tough thing. Problem is - the reviewers have favorite games and game types, just like us. Some have to bear the SP part so they can get to MP, others fiddle with MP a bit after enjoying SP. Others would rather be reviewing a RPG or RTS or maybe Britney's Dance Beats ... but whatever, we all have our own bias and perspective - I'm horribly biased towards SP ... I'm sure you've all seen this, and I'm clever enough to have noticed it in myself ;) You wouldn't want me reviewing your new MP game ...
Mike
I'm horribly biased towards SP ... I'm sure you've all seen this, and I'm clever enough to have noticed it in myself You wouldn't want me reviewing your new MP game ...
You can say the same about me with MP ;). I'm just surprised that you can continually play an SP game for more than a year. In no way do I mean that as a bad thing, in fact, the opposite. I can't say I've even played my favorite SP game (probably Link's Awakening for GB, or Ocarina of Time) more than three times.
All this talk about SP got me playing it lately. I'm about half way through, on my second time playing it.
Originally posted by GC256
I'm just surprised that you can continually play an SP game for more than a year. Continually - no. But repeatedly - yes. In that ensuing 1.5 years I've also played Serious Sam SE, SoFII, Deus Ex (for the first time), Unreal II, Elite Force II, NOLF, Red Faction II, and a number of demos. I've also repeated MoHAA, tried to repeat RtCW, repeated JK, MotS, DF, played some DoomLegacy, and who knows what else.
I've gotten a few new computers since the one I first played JKII on ... and each one was broken in with JKII :)
I have found that I learn about how much I really like a game through the second play-through (I know they talk about replay value in reviews, I guess this is similar). Like RtCW - I liked it the first time, but after playing MoHAA and other things, I really don't enjoy it all that much - whereas MoHAA feels 'tight', RtCW feels 'loose'. At first I liked them about the same ... a year or so later I definitely prefer MoH - and that's without MP. Of course there are some games I won't bother playing again - like my 5 hours of Red Faction II. Fun enough to be worth my $10, but not to pick up again ... or Postal 2, Unreal II, and so on...
There is a unique feeling I get playing JKII. Most FPS I get charged up and am not relaxed - it is great after work to release stress, but not relaxing. JKII, however, I find both releases stress and relaxes me.
Mike
Hm... I never really felt you were "clumsy" in neither MP or Sp... Maybe because I'm still a little kid and adapts to anything in 5-10 minutes :P
single player is more fun and a more star wars environment. But in multiplayer I don't live for fun. I play it to win and only to win. The fun comes from winning. Personally the thing about single player is. It has more cinematic effects and camera angle changing. And the physics are so different because you can't strafe jump and its a bit slower but its not a bad game. Its more fun than multiplayer but you do have to be very pacient.
I'm predicting SP jk3 will be more similar in the fact that you get the same force powers. But the physics will still be different. You still wouldn't be able to strafe jump.
go in sp in third person view, and move around a bit. strafe back and forth and forwards and backwards. stop and notice yourself slide. try jumping and rolling too.
now load up multi and do the same. theres is no way you shouldn't be able to tell the differance in control.
i don't think i'm really bias sp or mp wise, i ususally love sp, but i'm just saying that i'd like even more with more responsive and no sliding control. even the camera angle goes kinda funny, when you turn it takes a while to catch up or something. so it seems anyway
Hm... I didn't really notice this. After all I ran through the entire game by running up to enemies and bash them with the glowstick, even though this lead to many serious laser poisoning scenarios :D (except against those snipers on Nar Shaddaa... one of the worst things ever happened to a game IMHO) and after that I never played anything but MP... Still do at the occasional LAN, and get to beat up my friends with earlier named glowstick due to my superior JK2 experience compared to them.
"Hr hr............ So 0wned"
Well although I see a certain relevance in this discussion I also see a growing digression.
The fact is not so much that MP will 'feel' like SP. I could care less if it did or did not. I care for it to feel like GHOUL2. The simple fact of the matter is that DIE HARD players simply play the game (they do not question the games feature sets, but just play it). This is fantastic, but at the same time, it is important to understand what hidden features could potentially enhance an experience.
I REPEAT never mind the MP vs. SP discussion. The point is ghoul2 brings saber combat a much more 'battle like feel'. Saber combat is drastically affected by the ghoul2collision system (there is an introduction of midswing parries and all sorts of dynamic animation interrupts dependent on actual saber collision).
At the same time increasing saber damage becomes more sensible since sabers rarely go through each other (visually) when the ghoul2 collision system is activated.
The style of combat introduced by GHOUL2 is unparalleled and unmatched. Feeling more like a true SABER BATTLE, rather then a move and swing (or hack) match. Timing just as the main system is still key to sucess, and reading your opponent's movements to know when to yield, when to attack or when to change tactics. But combat is simply far more involved then the HACK and run style of the base combat.
I tend to agree with Smood more on this issue. It just doesn't feel like real lightsaber combat when sabers fall through each other.
This is why I like SP combat a lot more. I find lightsaber combat to be more realistic do to the "animation breaks" when you actually interrupt an attack with a parry of your own.
I just want to be able to kick without taking 5 minutes to lne up a target (what I have to do in singleplayer), miss DFA's because I forget it's done differently in SP, etc. You'll notice that it's harder to control the swing of the sabre in single-player. I don't mind ghoul2 collision, or the cool parries and all, but I just want the fine control.
You're probably confused by the saber auto aim, which variates your moves to more appropriately attack the target based on their position reletive to you. It's a good thing, very good, and I'm sad that MP lacked it, hopefully JA will be different.
Originally posted by Smood
I have heard that this cvar will be removed from Jedi Academy! I hope they do something to make up for this or include it, because it is just a fantastic fighting collision system!
You're sources are obviously working from unofficial, uninformed and incorrect resources.
Ghoul2 collision is still in SP and MP, why would we remove it???
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
You're sources are obviously working from unofficial, uninformed and incorrect resources.
Ghoul2 collision is still in SP and MP, why would we remove it???
WOW! Thats fantastic news! If I knew I would not have created this thread! Well at least we have some awareness about ghoul2collision. I'm sorry I brought up this falsehood. :(
Maybe you guys could enable it by default and turn off sabertracesaberfirst.
Ghoul2 does not really distort or take away from control at all. In fact I would say it adds to it. It allows you to have more combative moments and actual fighting with similar control to base saber play.
As for single player, I would say it is different then ghoul2, not quite the same, but also has similarities. The key is trying it for yourself.
Originally posted by Emon
You're probably confused by the saber auto aim, which variates your moves to more appropriately attack the target based on their position reletive to you. It's a good thing, very good, and I'm sad that MP lacked it, hopefully JA will be different.
Ah, I'm a multiplauyer gamer by nature. I dislike auto-aim pretty bad; negates skill. It's a bad thing because you don't need to use skill to aim as much.
auto aim is good in mp games like counter-str...
:eek:
nm
Auto aim isn't really the issue here. It is the enhanced collision detection and animation breaking offered by Ghoul2 collision. Please check out my previous posts in regards to it.
yes no one is bashing goul2 now shhh heh
Well since the combat system is only marginally based around skill in the first place (targeted towards the casual gamer, the largest market), I see no harm in it, but that's me.
Actually a skilled saberist can cut down an attack spammer or new player quite easily.
Of course, but it's not entirely skill based like some want it to be, which I think's a bad idea.
Originally posted by Emon
Well since the combat system is only marginally based around skill in the first place (targeted towards the casual gamer, the largest market), I see no harm in it, but that's me.
There is truth to this.