What exactly do you feel should be offered in CTF and Siege game types. Do you want anything changed or added to the CTF gametype? What about Siege, what exactly do you expect from this? What are your ideas on it? What about objects used IN these gametypes?

My views on the CTF game type: I personally didn't like the overall "flow" of CTF. I felt the levels were bland and nothing really interested me. Personally I would love to have better CTF levels, and pretty much a lot of diversity in them as well.

I'd like one CTF level to go with that fortress type. I'd like one to be small, one large, etc. I just want some memorable CTF levels. And if such things like turrets and the like could be placed, I would like that even more. Traveling in a swoop from base to base would be cool. I don't know if it could be implemented, but I would love to travel ground on my swoop through the desert toward an enemy base, dodging blasts from enemies that were using turrets to stop me from capturing the flag, twisting around rocks, dodging enemy fire, then when close enough to the base, hopping off of my swoop bike and whipping out my light saber, then proceeding to capture the flag. Then hopping back on and escaping to base, with two enemies from the opposite team trailing me from behind.

Something like this really intrigues me, and if something like this were implemented, I would be extremely happy about it.

My views on Siege

We really don't know a lot about the Siege game mode. But I can guess. A team on offense and the other on defense. A team trying to "infriltrate" a base during a certain time limit, having to go through constant attack and objects that are in the way.

I also hope they get really diverse in this mode as well. I hope its not just " open door siwtch, blah blah, open door switch blah blah, rinse, wash, and repeat. For example, perhaps a level like " Yahla the Hutts Lair" could be made. The Offensive team starts outside of the desert, running toward the base, and must not only shoot/slash off the locks to the gates, but must also defeat the shielding there as well. All while the defense is running to stop them by sniping, and firing with turrets or fighting head to head. Then the offensive team gets in and must go through a chamber in which holds a Rancor, who blocks the door. The offensive team must fight off the rancor and enemies from the other team at the same time, etc.

Like I said, I don't know if anything like this could be done, but if it could it would be nice.

What are your ideas, hopes, or feelings?

Yeah for Siege I want it where you can get in and out of veicals.

And For CTF I want Offense and Defense.

So to make it easy I want it your way.

You have some nice creative ideas. You thinking of something like NOLF2? Where you get a snow mobile to go from base to base? I really liked that and think it would be easy to put it, just not on such a huge scale like in your description. Who knows though, it could be there, but it's too late if they haven't put it in.

Im not thinking INCREDIBLY large. I dont want to have to ride a swoop for 5 minutes to get to a base or anything like that.

But I would obviously have to know how fast these swoops were and how much ground was covered before I could estimate a map scale.

Well the maps in No One Lives Forever 2 weren't that big. The vehicles moved pretty fast though and it seemed like a perfect length. On paper, what you wrote sounds like a lot of fun, but from playing in CTF in NOLF, it's not that exciting. At first it was, but it wears off fast. Most people don't choose to use them, and for those that do, its not that exciting. Most people tend not to try shoot you down because they are just too fast.

Some good points raised there.

For CTF...

I'd like better maps. I agree that some of those in JO were bland and not very interesting. Having played the CTF and Bombing Run maps in UT and UT2K3, there are some very nice and tight designs in those games. I particularly like those where you have terrain between two bases, and I'd hope to see maps like that in JA. You could have much more interesting scenarios, when you think about it...

...like two hover barges speeding over the sands of Tatooine, one for each team, and the objective is to destroy the opposing team's barge (or steal important plans). To carry out this task you get swoop bikes and/or skiffs to travel between the barges, each of which has manned turrets. Then once aboard, you can disable enemy turrets, gain access to the hold to steal plans, or the engine room to plant a bomb (or both) and then return to your own barge.

Or you could have a giant Sandcrawler as the base for one team, and the other team has a smugglers den in some cliffs. The smugglers have to steal an important piece of junk from the sandcrawler, while the sandcrawler team has to steal an important piece of junk from the smugglers.

Notice there's a pattern forming here...I'm a bit sick and tired of stealing flags. It just doesn't make much sense to me in a Star Wars context. I'd rather have something to steal that is more in context with the setting. Why not have holocrons, VIPs, secret plans, even prototype weapons to steal to carry back to your base? Or how about a prison break, where you have to free a VIP or gang leader, and escort them back to your base?

As for Siege mode...

...it does sound sort of like the Assault mode from UT, but with vehicles and classes. And yes, I'd love to see some really large levels, with multiple objectives to be completed within a certain time. Personally, I'd love to see something that appeared in some of Unreal 2's 'Defend the Base' levels...a number of portable turrets and forcefields you can set up as you please to defend particular routes to your stronghold. You'd have to be given a time limit to set up your defences...but if the 'assault' team has to travel a distance to get to the perimeter of your defences, then it could work quite well.

Again, I hope there is a proper context, and some interesting objectives to complete, rather than simply find switch A, pull switch A, find switch B, pull switch B...etc. If the emphasis is on team work, as it claims to be, then I want to see some interesting scenarios where you truly have to work together as a team, and have to watch each other's backs.

I have high hopes for Siege, so I hope it doesn't disappoint.

I have low expectations for Siege and CTF.

Just one look at Raven's multiplayer track record shows me they have not demonstrated the capacity to develop something as complex as Siege mode with classes, vehicles, and objectives. Combined with their inability to produce quality CTF or Deathmatch maps for JO, I will be surprised if their more complex multiplayer offerings sufficiently entertain me.

On a bit of a side note, if I could expound on something StormHammer mentioned... why can't they make good use of the Star Wars universe when crafting levels? It kills me how there is so many inspiring and immersive backdrops from the SWU to draw from yet they made poor use of almost all of them.

That was supposed to be a Star Destroyer we fought on? You call that a bridge? Would it have killed them to put another SD or 2 in the skybox or whatever they used to depict the space outside to add atomsphere?

Nar Shadda? Yeah, right. Let's carve out an already unconvincing level from single player and stick two non-sensical flag platforms in it and cap flags. :rolleyes: As StormHammer mentioned, there are ways you can fufill objectives that are actually make sense and add to the immersion.

Yavin Temples? ZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz.
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Not a single redeeming quality of either the DM or CTF maps.

The only semi-decent map was the outdoor one with vague Bespin-ish clouds and architecture, and perhaps that bespin Shafts level, but only for the gameplay... who the **** wants to play in gray drab, shaft? Ug.

All of the duel maps were boring and uninspired.

The rest were so terrible they have been stricken from my memory.

I don't mean to be dramatic but I sincerely hope they FIRED the last multiplayer level designer or we are all screwed again... big time.

Better, diverse and MORE CTF maps would be a big plus. One thing I'd love to see would be extra maps (and perhaps models, hilts, etc._ by the designers being added in patches or available for download from the official site; amateur maps simply are not as easily available and widespread. This would keep the online experience changing and evolving for much longer than did JO.

I like the idea of a huge map with vehicles required for transportation between bases... not just necessarily CTF bases, but different map areas in Siege (i.e., different objectives may have to be fulfilled in different locations-- get map to secret base in one place, go steal plans in another, return to home base, etc.)

I agree with a lot of you, right now my expectations aren't that high.

I mean, as Sargasso ( sorry if it was someone else) mentioned, those maps were dreadful at times. They included the death star...they could have had some other noticable locations.

The Geonosis Arena, Duel of the fates, maybe others. Maybe they'll make an apperance in JA. I mean...if they include power duel, something encouraged by Ep1 DotF battle....they might as well actually include the map.

But I hope they do a good job on Siege mode at the very least. Right now we haven't really seen any hint of multiplayer game play.

is siege mode anything like battlefield 1942? That's a kick ass game right there.

Im not exactly sure. But it sounds like an Attack/Defend scenario.

- Bot orders. Ie: the ability for a human player to become "the leader" and give orders to bots on his team that they will follow, which is in Quake3 Arena and has been in other games like UT.

- Lots of varied maps to use in Siege and CTF. Not just a half dozen maps or converted DM maps, but well designed and interesting maps that will hold up under repeated play, which will be suited to different numbers of players and give us some fresh gameplay.

- Lots of customizable options. I mean don't just give us four Siege Maps and four CTF maps and four classes and that's it. Give as many options and cvars as possible that are integrated into the admin panel so we can setup the games we want to quickly and easily. Take a hint from MotS and recent multiplayer focused games...

- (see above) Option to use "cheap and powerful" sabers in CTF and Siege. I'm not saying make the saber the ultimate weapon at the expense of all else, but something akin to the 1.02 sabers so they are useful as more than just a specialized dueling weapon. Keep the option to use "weaker more stylish sabers" for dueling if people desire longer battles there though. This would NOT be hard to implement.

- Allow more item use in MP (ir goggles, macrobinoculars, droids, keys, field lights, etc) and more interactivity with the map like in JK/MotS (ie: creative traps, switches that can be activated not just blundered into especially for doors, medical droids, force field panels, destroyable glass/furniture, alarms, cameras, REAL swimmable water not just floating in space, lightsabers that work in water, water the "distorts" the path of blaster shots" and bubbles from people swimming, etc).

- A return of the "Force pull items from the map" option (this was present in JK2's single player btw). Not just pulling items from enemies. A "drop item" power would also be nice to aide teammates if pulling from teammates was not allowed.

- Keyservers to keep out pirates. 'nuff said...


Three other options I would like to see, but probably won't just because this is the Quake3 engine and it seems like it's a rule or something that these can't be done (maybe it's too limited):

- Lightsabers that are real light sources again and cast light and shadow (ditto for fired blaster shots that can light up a room briefly)... not just a pasted on decal that casts no light. Use of darkness became a real strategic element in JK/MotS in this way (IR goggles and force seeing worked well with it in addition to the field light and lightsaber).

- A scalable overlay automap (and data pad map that was rendered in 3d vector based displays). Even if it were just a dark forces style overlay, this would rock. Used with force seeing, you could track the movements of friends and foes alike.

- When you kill somebody, they don't drop JUST the weapon they were last holding when they died (and if they die with their default pistol, saber or stun baton they drop nothing). In JK/MotS they dropped backpacks, which contained all the weapons, and ammo they were carrying at the moment of death. And yet somehow the game still managed to be balanced. Quake engine games all follow the "only last held weapon dropped." Yet this isn't anymore realistic... and in fact it can be exploited if people quickly switch to one of the three default weapons before they die.

PS: At least in JK1 they had color coded "security droids" (like the Stormtroopers used to look for Luke in ANH SE) for flags in CTF.

I was disapointed to see the uninspiring non-futuristic looking standards in JK2 that looked like they belonged in the middle ages.

If visibility is the thing, give the user a slight colored glow or a big icon over their head, but make the flags look cool.

One little nitpick and pet peeve. Why is the Empire Red and the New Republic Blue? Everywhere outside the game, I've seen the NR using a red (like the Rebel Alliance) symbol and the Empire use a blue (or black or gray) symbol. I guess they got carried away with the blue = lightside and red = darkside duality (even though force lightning, a supposed darkside power is blue.. and we have green powers, etc).

A siege scenario like the battle over Carkoon in ROTJ (with skiffs) and the battle of Endor (with ewoks and AT-ST's) or Hoth with walkers and stuff would totally ROCK. 'nuff said...

Lots of Star Wars battles that could be re-created in an FPS context like that would only add value to the game and respect from long-time fans.

For CTF I have VERY low expectations. How funny is it to tak a flag from point A to point B?
CTY was a small twist, though I felt it was on the right path. Disabling forces both for and against someone grabbing it isn't really what I mean, but to capture something else that makes more sense in the SW universe, just like StormHammer said. I mean, a LIZARD? We might as well have captured a smaller Desann...

For Siege though I have slightly higher expectations. It sounds good on the paper, and if made in a decent way with fairly good maps I think it could be a success, especially if teamwork gets the key factor, like BF1942 or CS (though CS was a little bad example, I think you get the picture).
I never felt JO had any real TW modes. CTF was mostly a struggle about numbers. The team with most players usually win.

I 'm hoping by "vehicles" in seige they refer to swoop bikes and tauntauns, not AT-STs. Sure, it might be cool to yell "Bring in the artilliery!" "Fire!" etc.

But what if you 6 year old egts the thing? He doesn't want to fight and get it killed, so he runs and tries to hide. He steps on teammates and enemies alike getting there. How do you fight that? Besides, trying to take down At-STs is just hard. I do like what STormhammer mentioned, "Raid the enemy skiffs and return to base" or such.

Personally, the very name "Siege" is probably inaccurate. The very word makes me think of Star Wars:Clone Wars MP, where you start off in a vehicle, take over outposts to build turrets and units, and then attack the enemy bases. That sounds like a siege; however, I doubt that'll be in JA.

What'd be nice would be some tank-style vehicles, like the Trade Federation AATs. Those are pretty big, pretty powerful, but you can really fight them. They can't step on you. :D

Well keeping out of the way of a vehicle would be a good thing anyway. I'd imagine you can be stepped on by ATSTs, run over by swoops, and obliterated if hit with an xwing.

I don't think X-wings will be there. And my point is...how the heck are you supposed to fight people in an AT-ST? The SP AI ATSTs are hard enough...but a thinking person? [shudder]

I dunno. But when I hear "siege" I think heavy assault...not infantry ssault. That means tanks and such....which is NOT what JA is about. Personally I think the game mode may be mistitled.

I agree with what all of you have said. Kurgan wrote a lot :D and I agree with him. I also want them to fix the flag targeting. I don't know how many times I've run over the flag without picking it up / capturing. It just gets annonying... Better Levels definitely. I'm looking forward to Siege a lot :) Hope I don't get let down