I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the Paranormal.

First, let me be clear that I'm very skeptical about paranormal claims in general and view the vast majority of paranormal claims as hallucination, misunderstanding, incomplete information, assumption, mental illness, a hope for status among peers, and outright lies.

I think there's a chance that some paranormal claims are legitimate, abeit a very, very slim one. The probabilities are extremely small that they are.

The types of paranormal claims and events I'm talking about include, but are not limited to: UFOs, aliens, ghosts, ESP, Psi powers, telekinesis, Remote Viewing, psychic healing, divination, dowsing, ouiji boards, tarot cards, astrology, etc.

Now, to be fair, I'm likely to be very skeptical about any claim someone makes that has no basis in fact or cannot be verified :cool: But if you believe in that sort of thing, I'm interested in why.

I'll update this first post from time to time with a few references that you can get from the internet and I'll start with these:


The Skeptic's Dictionary - a good resource for explainations of alleged paranormal claims (http://www.skepdic.com/)

Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (http://www.csiocop.org)

The James Randi Educational Foundation (http://www.randi.org)

The Million Dollar Challenge - If you have Psi abilities, take the challenge win $1,000,000! (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)

Well As far as I am concerned The Amazing Randi has put a nail in the coffin of every paranormal claim ever made.


He outed the famous Charlatan & fake Yuri Gheller on the Tonight Show back in the 80s. Not to mention everyone he has run into since.



Science and facts are way more interesting than all that fake paranormal crap.

UFOs, aliens
It's really unlikely, from a logical point of view, that these guys have visited Earth. The story of the first sighting goes something like this:

A farmer in, I think it was Texas, reported to the local paper that he saw a "crescent-shaped craft that flew across the sky like a saucer would if you skipped it across water.

The paper article didn't get much puplicity, but a popular magazine took up the idea and dubbed the UFOs "flying saucers", taking the word from the description of the way the ship(?) flew.

Now, pretty soon after this, others claimed they had seen the "flying saucer-shaped spaceship" over his barn that day. Then, others reported sighting them all over the city, then all over the country, then all over the world.

That's the story of how "flying like a saucer" turned into "a flying saucer".

ESP, Psi powers
Seeing scientists can't explain how cats and dogs seem to know stuff they can't possibly know or sense, I cannot deny this. There even was an article on it in a science magazine I read (a serious, unpolitical one with no affiliations to anything).

ouiji boards, tarot cards, astrology
Far as I know, not even a small minority of the prophecies of these come true. If somebody like a classmate want to tell my fortune from tarot cards, though, go ahead, as I want to see how it's done:).

More on UFOs:
…nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge...further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby.

Okay, I'm a paranormal freak. I'm obsessed with it. Now, I can't much back up my beliefs, its just my thing.

UFOs - I seriously doubt that humans are the only intellegent beings in the universe when you think its size. Earth is a speck in a giant black mass, which makes us even more insubstatial. I think UFOs have come and watched us, but I think abductions are total BS, specially since most of em are half-retarted, drunken, illeterate rednecks(no offense to anyone fitting this description)

Ghosts - Why not? All the stories, sighting, and scientific proof seem to say that something is in those places. And I dare anyone to spend a weeks nights on the Gettysburg battle field. Anyone at all.

ESP/Psionics - We've all had deja-vu. If you haven't, your denying it. Maybe some people have a stronger 6th sense*we've all got different aspects in our senses, why would a 6th be any different?* Though most of these 'psychics' *psychos if you ask me* are sheer bull****, a few of them are legit. Sylvia Brown hasta be a for real one, considering her track record.

Ouija Boards - Bull****, plan and simple.

Monsters - IE: LochNess Monster, Big Foot, Chupicabra, and hell, even werewolves. I've read accounts of all of em, and they all seem pretty real to me. The werewolf thing will get me ridiculed, but whatever. If I find the book where I read it, I'll post the entire thing.

A farmer in, I think it was Texas
New Mexico, man. Roswell, New Mexico...

And I forget what painting it was of the Virgin Mary, but in the background is a UFO, or maybe an ink blot? We'll see. And since UFO sightings have been around since forever, why not believe it? The pyramid-like structures on Mars, in complete and perfect geological perspective to the Great Pyramid and its little bros in Egypt. A bit convenient for a 'random geological formation'. I say the same wit the face.

i gotta agree with MP, im a lover of the paranormal. The scientests came come up with a theroy for nearly anything that happens, but how many of theses theroys are just that, theroys, ideas with no scientific backing. Why can there be no vistors to this planet? it would make perfect sense, to many 'alien' races we could be primative as we find monkeys or apes. Just beacause a load of people lie about something doesnt mean some could be telling the truth. could it be that overall hummanity is terrifed that it is not alone in the universize beacause it can not cope with the idea of being inferior, beacuse even with all its 'tecnical advances' it could be considered primative. i just feel hummanity has a pre built idea of 'space and aliens' beacause of sci fi movies and books. Alot of people see a moive or read a book and catogize it as fiction, i mean we even call it science fiction for pitys sake! i just want to be alive when we find out that we are not alone, that we are not the greatest beings yet and we find out that we will crash and burn

well thats my theroy off my chest :p :D :p :D
hope you enjoyed it and you now think that little bit differently when you look at the stars...

Originally posted by Captain Wilson
The scientests came come up with a theroy for nearly anything that happens, but how many of theses theroys are just that, theroys, ideas with no scientific backing.

Which theories are you referring to that scientists have made without "scientific backing?" Have you even taken anything beyond basic science in school? There's a little more to Scientific Method than coming up with a hairbrained idea and calling it a theory.

Originally posted by Captain Wilson
Why can there be no vistors to this planet?

There could be, but the probability is infinitesimaly small. A better question is why believe that aliens are visiting our planet from other worlds? There has been no conclusive evidence to demonstrate that this is so.

There could be, but the probability is infinitesimaly small. A better question is why believe that aliens are visiting our planet from other worlds? There has been no conclusive evidence to demonstrate that this is so.

Of course, we have nothing to prove it the other way, either. Thus, a theory is still just that, a theory.

Originally posted by MydnightPsion
Of course, we have nothing to prove it the other way, either. Thus, a theory is still just that, a theory.

Actually it is not a theory at all, but rather a supposition or an assumption. A theory is based upon thorough testing of one or more hypotheses to a point in which a null hypothesis can be rejected as not probable.

If we apply this type of scientific method to obtain a theory, then the theory we are left with is that UFOs are likely the hallucinations, hoaxes, and misidentified visual phenomena that are probably not alien craft. This is because one cannot make only the hypothesis that "UFOs are alien craft," one also has to include UFOs are hoaxes, UFOs are hallucinations, UFOs are misidentified objects or events, UFOs do not exist, UFOs are manmade, etc.

In this explanation I'm using the colloquial definition of UFO, not the literal, which is a flying object that is not identified. I'm assuming that the object has the identity of "UFO" and that this identity itself needs to be defined. Some would say "six of one, half dozen of the other" but I anticipate someone pointing out that "UFO stands for..... " This is already a given.

Now... we've established the hypotheses two paragraphs back so we need a null hypothesis: UFOs are not of alien origin. This doesn't have to be the null, but since this is what UFOlogists want to be true, it, therefore must be the null.

In all UFO investigations, each of the hypotheses listed have been born out numerous times except one. Therefore, our theory must be: "UFOs are frequently manmade or natural objects or events that are misinterpreted, blatant hoaxes, and, on occasion, even hallucinations brought on by physiological or psychological stresses and conditions. UFOs have even been the result of mass hysteria in which all participants see an event that is misinterpreted and generally agreed upon as a group dynamic. The probability of UFOs being alien craft is extremely small and has never been demonstrated."

The burden of proof from here lies with the proponants that the null hypothesis is true, that UFOs are alien craft.

A lot of things paranormal basically belong in the You'll believe it when you see it category.

While it is good in these debates to look at what is logical remember that what is logical changes over time.

For instance to someone living 1000 years ago the technology today would look like magic. To sought of quote Arthur C Clarke.

If we were discussing flying machines 1000 years ago, and people were talking about machines weighing 1000 tonnes flying half the world in a day they might have said that would be illogical since that is heavier than air and the currents wouldn't go that fast. However, in the space of less than a century of flight, what has happened?

Thus, because we don't understand something, does not necessarily make it illogical.

I have had dreams, visions, gut feelings (more like really strong thoughts of something happening/has happened), seen a ghost, and had other weird things happen around me. I could explain these things to the best of my ability. However, as to why or how they exist I couldn't tell you 100% certain. Did they occur? With 100% certainty I say yes.

I have a friend who has also seen his Grandmother after she died. His father saw her to. He also said he used to see ghosts with his friends around the whore house when he was little (back in Cambodia).

This is why I say these things belong in the you have to see to believe category

I too am a sceptic, but I am drawn to any area, where alot of eye witness accounts occur at the same time. I am drawn to the sightings and stories of strange happenings everywhere. So much in fact, I have told a few of my friends that upon finishing school, I am going to devote my life tracking down the paranormal, and either look for possible loopholes or genuine unexplained occurances. I have even found others with similar interests that are planning to join me.

My direct motivation is The Mothman Prophecies. I just recently watched the DVD, and was so fascinated by the story, that I went out and bought the Richard Keel novel, which is even better...

There are also several hotspots in Chicagoland, I want to scope out as well.

At some point, I will publish my findings on a regular basis. My journalistic background will help me in this venture.

Here's an excerpt of an article:

A likely explanation for the "Mothman" is the common barn owl. While it is far from man-sized, due to its big wings (some forty-four inches) and long legs it nevertheless "appears deceptively large, especially in flight" ("barn" 2001; Coe 1994). Allowing for such deception-compounded by multiple unknowns (distance, true
size, size of nearby objects for comparison), as well as darkness, surprise, fear, and other magnification factors-we have what I believe is the most likely candidate for "Mothman." (Of course, given the many reports, there is unlikely to be a single explanation for all, and hoaxes, hallucinations, other birds, etc., may have been involved in the contagion.)

I've seen owls at night and, unfortunately, nearly urinated on myself when a close one screetched and flew away! We used to bump into these all the time when I was in the Army stationed at Ft. Hood, in fact, it was something of a fad to use them to scare the newbies when on guard.... especially city-kids fresh in the Army. When I was 13, I watched a Great Snowy Owl swoop down from a tree and fly across a small lake (4 or 5 acres) and go right over my head.... this powerful bird was HUGE and flapped his wings mabe twice in the whole flight. If it wasn't daylight, I've no doubt I would have a different story to tell of the event.

Good luck in tracking down the paranormal! I recommend A Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan... you can pick it up for $5.98 at Half Price Books.


"barn owl." 2001. At www.thebigzoo.com) (http://www.thebigzoo.com/Animals/Barn_Owl.asp)

Coe, James. 1994. Eastern Birds: A Guide to Field Identification of North American Species. New York: Golden Press, 86-87.

I believe in paranormal. In some aspects of it more, in some less. I have strong convction in reality of telekinesis, bilocation, prescience, I have little trust in aliens (as i can't understand their motivation which is possibly to be part of their world view if that is how it could be understandable for them as for us).

I think about it in optimistic way. at least one virtue of paranormal justifyes it's existence: it provokes scienctific thought on the very edge of it's contemplation, and "true" development is not possible without moving in all directions, considering all possible and impossible, imagining and defending one's beliefs (with scientific proof of course).

Which theories are you referring to that scientists have made without "scientific backing?" Have you even taken anything beyond basic science in school? There's a little more to Scientific Method than coming up with a hairbrained idea and calling it a theory.
not in my world:D. i mean things such as, that UFO was accually a star imploding in in a galxy so many lightyears a way.sorry if my points apper stupid. its probaly beacause they areHave you even taken anything beyond basic science in school?
on account of still being in school...no:D,but i still like putting my ideas foreword,even if they are wrong, being corrected and learning something new

I belive in the existance in extra Terrestrial life, only because it is beyond the laws of science at the moment to prove that they do not exist. The universe is far to big to not contain other intelligent life. Wether or not, we have been "contacted", or "visited" however is a matter of personal opinion. I for one, do not believe we really have. I do believe however, that people see strange things for a reason, and for that reason, I take everything seriously until I can find and prove if it is bogus or genuine.

I love this thread, and it prompted me to start a seperate forum on my site. I invite you all to sign up and take part in the discussion.

http://www.themanipulation.com/forum/index.php?c=7&sid=3ae07c8c1c59c62664a2e6407a1938eb)

This is the sort of thing I watch with profound enthusiam.

I beleive in most everything paranormal, it fasinates me, as for monsters-big foot ect. i like cryptozoooligy, so i belive in it all, eccept the lockness monstor, since the fist photograph was an admitted hoax. now, my poste is gonna sound fox mulder x-file stuff, but i think our government knws alotmore then they say, roswell thing, coverups. i watch alot of sci fi channel , and discovery, history. i have come aopn no proof what so ever that can put down the idea of life betond death, goasts, poltergeys ect. but more than enough eveidence supporting it. now i dotn beleive any old story i hear, but ive heard stories from people i trust alot, my grendfather, a sceptic had stories. my grandmother tells alot of stories about ghostes, and id like to beleive them, but the stories get longer and better any time, so i just listen to them i dont beleive them any more. since my grandfather ides, in 2002, things happened to lead me to beleive in ghostes and such. now i beleive in phycics to a point, this taroh card stuff i th9nk is crap, but people who can contact deciesed, or solve crimes , id o believ in, now this is just what i heard from a person who knew things about my family, that noone could know, for not knowing us. she new about deaths, and things from the past, and she said, that when peope die, there spirit remains for 2 years, then assends to whatever is there (i beleive in heaven).

i also beleive in extra terestrials, for many reasons.eveidencde from old civilisations, seeing pictures, hearing stories, and i like to beleive n that, and there isnt much evidrnce agaiunst it, but i think the governmaent know about these, and hide it from the public, i beleive that the govt. has tried to make there own, i beleive that alienas have landed, ubducted, i beleive they have crahsed. i know alot of hoaxes are out there. on sci fi channel they had a guy who used to work for the govt. , and he said things that made me think, he said he worked on projects involving othr beings, and he knows that we have ttacket them when they came into our air space, he said that attempts ahve been made on his life since he said what he knew aout govt, cover ups. ive seen video from one of our shutle orbiting with an object flyoing then turning in a 9o degree angle and shoot off in another direction just missing being hit byt what is thougt to be the deffense and attck program called "star wars" where we have deffense against missles, i beleive.
if i may quoye from x-files , "the truth is ut there"

Daring, don't take this the wrong way, but.....

I'm curious as to why you believe in these types of things. Have you ever seen conclusive evidence to support these paranormal ideas, or do you rely on anecdote only?

I have a hypothesis that I'm working on that says that the majority of our "beliefs" stem from cultural mythology and group norms, but that there is some mental predispostions involved as well. By that, I think that it is, perhaps, a genetic coding that wires the brain to look for ideas that will allow the individual to gain group acceptance and/or status.

Please believe me when I say I'm not criticizing the beliefs, but rather I am genuinely interested in what the foundations are for them.

In retrospect, one cannot truley explain why he believes one thing or another. A general rationilization might be 'I was raised to believe', but because your raised to believe this dosen't mean you do. I was raised Lutherin, but I'm flat out Atheist. Why? Because its what I believe, not what I was raised to be. I believe in the paranormal. Why? Because I just do.

Agreeing with Skinwalker I too believe alot of the belief in the supernatural can be attributed to base psychological aspects, such as the need for connectedness. Humans have an astounding ability to deluding themselves into believing anything as long as it suits them, consciously or subconsciously; i.e. people will believe something because they either want it to be true or fear it to be true.

As for daring dueler's argument of promoting the validity of anything supernatural because there isn't any proof against it, I say that this argument is (almost) as inapplicable to the realm of the supernatural as it is to religion. I can come up with any farfetched fantasy and claim it true because it cannot be disproven - hardly holds water, no?

This being said, I admit that I do not adamantly deny any possibility of the supernatural, I just hold a scepticism and simply await what may or may not come of valid proof of any of it.

Regarding sentient extraterrestrial life the odds are greatly in favour according to scientific calculations. Whether or not they have visited and/or communicated with us, I have no guess. But it's easy to imagine a civilization somewhere out there thousands or even millions of years ahead of us in evolution and science/technology. (Just as a sidenote, I don't think the term 'supernatural' should be applied to otherworldy intelligent life.)

I hold little to no belief in extraordinary psychic abilites such as telepathy, psychokinesis, clairvoyance, etc., for if viewed strictly from the point of evolution they hold no real justification for the survival of our species. Granted, they would be handy - but they're not vital.

Finally, on to the realm of spirits and ghosts, apparitions and poltergeists....Let's just say that this is an aspect of the supernatural where I remain a passive sceptic awaiting solid evidence.