So, now that Galaxies is out and doesn't seem to be getting super-fantastico reviews (GameSpot gave it a 7.5 and said that, for the time being, it was like a better looking, slightly more complicated EverQuest in space), how do you think this will affect JA?
Based on what I've read so far, I suspect that it WILL draw a fair number of the RPGers (the ones who like to join a JO game, sit around, emote, and hardly ever draw their weapons) IF a few things happen first.
From what the stuff I've read has said, it sounds like there isn't much content to Galaxies yet. The classes take a LONG time to develop, and require that you do a lot of repetitive, boring tasks. Plus, although there's a need for healers, entertainers, and artisans, their jobs are even MORE boring than being a marksman and going out to kill your hundredth womp rat. In addition, there are still no player-ownable/rideable creatures, mounts, or vehicles, no space combat, and not much going on in terms of the rebellion vs. empire civil war.
And there's still no jedi or force-sensitive characters out there.
So, what does this mean for JA? Well, it means that, unless they can get this content in pretty quickly, people who want the quick and easy way to "be a jedi" are going to turn to JA. Which means that those of us who just wanna frag people are going to have to deal with RPGers in the game.
Now, IF Galaxies can come up with more content, if player-run cities can start developing, if people can begin getting into the more advanced player levels (and thus really develop their characters more -- I don't know about you, but being a level 3 generic marksman isn't my idea of an immersive Star Wars experience), and if they can bring jedi into the game in relatively short order, then I think that RPGers will stick to the game that was designed for roleplaying. Otherwise, people who want to RPG but want to hold a lightsabre while they do it are going to start populating servers in JA where they can do just that (although they may be limited in their emotes).
Time will tell, I suppose.
No offense meant... but personally I'm a bit tired of the RPGers vs Fraggers civil war.
There is hardly a possible comparison between Galaxies and JA other than the fact that they are both Star Wars.
And it's impossible for anyone here to know how the current state of Galaxies will affect JA.
Please allow me for stating my own oppinion about this thread... another debate between RPGers and Fraggers like we've seen so many times already.
Besides Solo... you can't possibly be depending on another game to solve this one's POSSIBLE future problems.
That would be the same as the RPG folks wanting Quake4 to come out ASAP so that most of the fraggers leave the house.
To me the only way to solve this issue is for RPGers and Fragger to have diferent servers with explicit rules and a less exploitable vote system. Each bird in it's own nest. It's the only way and no one has to be in eachother's way.
Cheers.
I suspect that Knights of the Old Republic will draw more RPGers than Galaxies will. It sounds like that game is about ready for primetime and comes out the same time as JA (PC version anyway). It is SP only, but I suspect that it will still be very appealing to the RPG crowd. Hell, it is pretty appealing to me, and I'm not an RPGer... :)
We've all seen how well this idea of "to each their own" works.
Will the jedihonour-noobies stay on their isolated RPG-servers?
Hell no. They will infest ALL servers and bitch and moan and whine about every god damn thing right before they vote-kick you off the server for doing something they consider dishonourable (like winning).
That's what happened to JO and that's exactly what all of us who want to actually PLAY the game must fight against.
I'm serious about this: the crap must be put to an end before it even starts. I want to hear NO WHINING in JA. No BS about "honour this" and "lame that".
I'm afraid that people who play Galaxies or Kotor and buy JA will try to import their character and their ways into the JA, a first person shooter. :mad:
The mix between action games and rpgs was inevitable. Is the future of video gaming. That combined with new engines that introduce realtime physics and a level of world<->player interaction never seen before, will make gamers from all the genres come to a same point.
This point is: first person shooters, with a lot of interaction with the virtual world, with virtual objects that react as they should in the real world, and strong rpg aspects.
It doesn't matter if role games attract shooters or if shooting games attract rolers, at the end there can be only one... kind of game, hehe. A game that sims real life in every possible way, but where you can do everthing you can't in real life, like killing ppl, fight ppl on the streets, be a vampire, be an inmortal, and so on.
Another we hate RPGers thread. Oh goodie.
I remember the good old days of JK1 BEFORE the fraggers came. Plenty of RPG servers and still are. RPGing was respected. Maps were released exclusively for it.
Now I don't go on about honour but I probably wouldn't kill a guy with his saber off. If he suddenly switches it on and attacks me then fine, all the more excitment for me.
Do you know who the biggest whiner ? Those whining about the RPGers.
Every thread apears to be the same..
Ooo! Ooo I hate those people who have saberdown rules.. oo oo their all newbies... oo oo I hate people who come on merely to have a good time! Oo oo I hate RPGers... Ooo look I've gone with the majority.. do I get somthing special from the forum regulars now?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
I'm afraid that people who play Galaxies or Kotor and buy JA will try to import their character and their ways into the JA, a first person shooter. :mad:
Quite frankly, I'm planning to buy Kotor, but I'm not going to import my character from it to JA. I have different playing styles for different games. I play JO, I frag. I play Kotor, I'm gonna RP.
But, as others have said, I'm tired of all the B.S. flying from one group against the other group, with each argument making about as much sense as a band of mokeys screeching at each other.
Personally, I've played Galaxies. And as an RPGer myself, I was greatly dissapointed. It is just like everquest. With a star wars feel added.
But, I am greatly looking forward to JA. And knights of the old republic. Galaxies was a let down, but I won't let that stop me from enjoying these great games.
This is just another reason why we need the ultimate jedi game like i have mentioned in my previous posts.
Whoa now, back up people. I wasn't saying I hate RPGers. I have no problem with them and really enjoy a good RPG myself. In fact, at the moment, I'm actually playing through the old Gold Box games (those of you who are old-school RPGers will know what I'm talking about).
And as for people wanting to RP in JO or JA, I have no problem with that AS LONG as they do it on servers that are designed for that style of gaming. If you go on an RP server and start fragging people, that's not cool, just like if you go on a fragging server and start RPing.
Personally, I think JA isn't really designed for true RPing. By that, I mean truly playing in character, developing your character, interacting with other players, going on quests, etc.,etc. Unless you've got HUGE maps in JO/JA, you're gonna run out of things to do pretty quickly, at least for the style of RPing I like.
I think KOTOR will likely be pretty damn good. I was fairly disappointed with NWN, though more because of the content (or lack thereof) than the engine itself. I also like to have a full party (as opposed to a single henchman) when I'm playing SP.
Galaxies looks like it needs to mature some before it will become truly immersive and fun, though I wonder if it'll ever be fun to be an artisan or a performer. Unless certain bands develop rock-star-like followings, I think the reality of the travelling musician's lifestyle will make more people go towards the combat side of things. Let's face it: the universe is Star WARS, not Star Jazz.
Do I hope that those games pull RPGers away from JA? Absolutely, and for two reasons.
1.) I think it must be frustrating to want to RP in games like JO or JA. You've got all these cool toys to play with, but no level system. You've got cool looking levels around, but little by way of interaction with them (aside from opening doors and such). And, you've got a whole LOT of people who don't want to play the way you want to play regardless of where you go.
2.) I want there to be a well developed RPG community for Star Wars games in true RPG games themselves, so that when I want to go and RP, I can do it in an environment that was designed for that, and not have to go into a game like JO/JA where I'm just going to be annoyed and frustrated. The more people head off and play those games, the more folks there are for ME to game with in that setting when I want to.
Anyway, I never intended to have any kind of negative spin on the RPers (though I still can't understand how one would really RP in a FPS style game), I just think people need to respect the rules of whatever server they play on. Aside from that, I was honestly wondering how the release of what was supposed to be the uber-RPG for this universe, and its subsequent rather disappointing debut, would affect THIS game.
You've raised some intersting points - I would point out that - from what I read - there will never be more than a few jedi around - and there is some mysterious process for becoming a jedi in the game itself. This is because that is how the ep 4-6 movies were - no more than 2 or 3 jedi around - and really only one that a player would become. LA didn't want a game populated solely by jedis - which of course is its major drawback. I'm sure there will be some people who want to be a bounty hunter or a storm trooper or a twi'lek danser - but I doubt that holds the appeal of leaping tall buildings in a single bound and lopping of heads with a glowing sword. If they ever manage to implement a space fighting system, things will probably turn around, but I don't really seeing it holding a mass appeal for very long.
This is all guess work, of course, since I haven't played the game myself ;) .
What would be really interesting is if they allowed the game to progress throughout the course of the Galactic Civil War (which they won't, most likely).
As far as the jedi thing, I suspect that the force sensitive people will not be so few as to be negligible, but actual jedi will be few and far between. If you become a jedi in the game 1.) your powers should be QUITE weak, unless you happen to find someone to train you, and/or 2.) the Empire should be constantly on the lookout for you, so you probably don't want to go showing off your abilities very often. Both Obi-Wan and Yoda lived in isolation specifically because they wanted to avoid attention. Arguably, Obi-Wan's drawing of his lightsabre in the Mos Eisley Cantina was a VERY risky thing to do, if only because it would naturally attract attention.
Now, personally, I'd LOVE to play as a smuggler or a bounty hunter, but because there's no space combat, there's currently no real way to do that. I'd love to actually be able to join the rebellion and travel among the stars or to play as a Han Solo type (big surprise, given my handle on here...), but until the game is robust enough to allow that, I don't know if I want to pay $40-ish to buy it and $15/mo. to play it.
Likely, though, they won't bring the jedi thing into it because they'll figure that between KOTOR and JA, people can get their jedi combat and jedi RPG fix. Galaxies has the potential, rather, to return to the classic, original trilogy way of viewing the Star Wars universe, where guys like Wedge, Lando, Han, Fett, etc. are the real badasses, and guys like Luke are so rare as to be almost nonexistent (and with good reason).
I've pretty mcuh heard that it's very easy to work for the empire (as a stormie :D)
Thoguh it might be completely false.
What i did play was pretty boring :/ Still as long as KOTR and Galaxies take away 'some' of the rpers i'll be happy - less to whine about.
Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
This is just another reason why we need the ultimate jedi game like i have mentioned in my previous posts. The problem is, who is going to decide what the "ultimate jedi game" is going to be? This leads us right back to where we are now. Those who RPG want to interact using the Jedi code, and the FPSers like just fragging people with the weapons and abilities of the Jedi. Both can be fun, and everyone will want something different. Just look at these boards. No one can agree on what should be included in JA. Really, there is no "ultimate" Jedi game. There are just games that appeal to different types of players.
I just want to reiterate, I have no problem with the RPers in general. If folks want to RP, more power to 'em. What I have a problem with is people who don't respect the rules of a server, plain and simple. If the server is an RP server, don't frag. If the server is a fragging only server, don't RP. If the server prohibits basecamping, don't basecamp. If the server says we never use lightning, the backstab, or the E-11, don't use 'em. If you don't like it, play on a different server.
And when you find a server with rules you like, stay there. I've found servers in different games where I got along with the people and basically just became a regular there. There's nothign quite like having a regular group of folks that you can game with. It really is a lot of fun when you can find a place like that. So, just look for the type of group/place you want to play, and stick with that.
And if you enter a server with NO rules and get voted out because some folks are playing a way you don't like, deal with it. I know it sucks, and you feel indignant, but if it's just a free for all with no rules whatsoever, then whoever is on makes the rules by majority. End of story. If you don't like it, stick with servers that don't have voting.
Personally, and I recommend this for ALL multiplayer gaming, I'd say only go on servers that have admins on regularly and that do NOT allow voting. A well admined server is FAR better than a server left open to voting, I think. It's unfortunate, but it's true.
About RPG'ing...
When I say RPG, I don't mean RPG in the traditional sense. What I'm referring to are those constantly whining retarded hypocrites who try to force their idiotic honour codes on everyone. Saber noobies, fanboys, whatever.
No honour codes = less whining. Therefore we must make people realize that their personal view on how others should play against them on public FFA's matters not.
There should be one rule and one rule only on all servers: DO NOT WHINE. :mad:
It's not just in JO that people do this. People whine about cheap shots, campers, lame tactics, etc. all the time. Sometimes the complaints are justified (I personally HATE basecamping in any game where you actually have bases) and sometimes they're just silly.
I think a big part of the difference between other games and the Star Wars games is that people bring the notion of an honor code (aside from just basic etiquette and consideration for others) largely because of the Jedi content of the game. They figure jedi had codes of honor, thus, so should we. Trouble is, what one person defines as "honor" another defines as fair play. The solution to this, however, is pretty simple: Do whatever is appropriate to the server.
Aside from blatantly exploiting glitches in the game or cheating, do whatever you like as long as the server has no problem with it. If the server has rules against certain behavior, obey them. If the server has no rules, but the admins forbid certain activity when they're on, obey the admins. If the server has no admins, no rules, but voting's enabled, be prepared to vote on issues and accept the majority. Finally, find a server you like and stick with it.
On the small issure of voting, I think everyone on the server should vote rather than just the 2 that are playing (if 2 clan members meet each other, one probably won't disagree with the other)
Even though i don't agree with voting, it would be better than nothing imo.
Like most have said, I don't mind the RPG people buying JA. Just as long as they stay in their servers. And of course the FPS people stay in theirs. It would be in the best interest that the game has a filter for RPG and FPS servers so people don't have to go out and look for them. Then there really won't be any excuse for people coming in and trying to force their code, if they have any, :D on other people.
I think that Galaxies is popular, but JA and KOTOR will take more i feel. as of what i know about Galaxies it is full of bugs at the moment. That and it is probably(i'm still trying to find this out) useless to anyone with 56K modems. KOTOR and JA may have MP but they are more focused on SP in all aspects.
Originally posted by MasterJo
KOTOR and JA may have MP but they are more focused on SP in all aspects. Very true. And KOTOR doesn't have any MP aspects at all. Personally, I rely on SP game for my Star Wars "feel".
Originally posted by Solo4114
I think a big part of the difference between other games and the Star Wars games is that people bring the notion of an honor code (aside from just basic etiquette and consideration for others) largely because of the Jedi content of the game. They figure jedi had codes of honor, thus, so should we. Trouble is, what one person defines as "honor" another defines as fair play.
Exactly. Well put :)
Yes, this is the "why", I guess.
About the voting system: it sucks. It's horrible. You get kickvotes and counterkickvotes every 10 seconds followed by "VOTE YES!!!!!1"-screams.
99% of the time the ones who vote have no idea WHY the vote was started. I ask for a reason every time, and 99% of the explanations I get are something about "he lamed meee!"
Clan members and/or friends will always vote what their buddies vote. And usually we got more than one clan member on a server, so the problem is obvious.
The thing with "simply find a server that you like with people who aren't retarded" sounds easier than it actually is. Especially with JO, since there aren't that many servers left. I'd much rather try to fix the problem (JA) than spend my time avoiding it.
What worries me are all the existing clans and idiots, who will surely take their clan and their honour codes over to JA. And they will turn every FFA-server into a FightWithHonourz-server and infest the minds of countless clueless newbies into believing that what they do is the only acceptable, honorable way of playing JA whilst everyone else is lame, gay and must be whined upon and votekickbanned.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
What worries me are all the existing clans and idiots, who will surely take their clan and their honour codes over to JA. And they will turn every FFA-server into a FightWithHonourz-server and infest the minds of countless clueless newbies into believing that what they do is the only acceptable, honorable way of playing JA whilst everyone else is lame, gay and must be whined upon and votekickbanned.
I get your point but you are generalising. I can name at least two clans that RP and Frags. My Clan Jedi Masters of Honor (we are now on break until JA's release) and the Knights of Alderaan. Both of us do not "invade" servers and start RP. We both go to our own servers and start RP but we Password it. When we go to the zone or other servers we follow the servers rules. Basically we expect our members to follow our rules and the servers rules but when it comes to others they can play however they wish, that what makes the game interesting. I would have to say though I have never meet any of these evil RPGers so I guess I've been lucky in that respect.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
What worries me are all the existing clans and idiots, who will surely take their clan and their honour codes over to JA. And they will turn every FFA-server into a FightWithHonourz-server and infest the minds of countless clueless newbies into believing that what they do is the only acceptable, honorable way of playing JA whilst everyone else is lame, gay and must be whined upon and votekickbanned.
all the more reason to have people like myself, fallen/fk and other players/clans continue to make it very difficult to pull that crap on public servers by beating the hell out of them once they start and ridiculing them for it afterwards.
Remember that stuff started as a sort of "are those noobs serious?" type of minority movement. If enough people start telling them where to stick their codes of honor once the whining starts, JA will be just like JK2 was when it was in it's prime prior to all this nonsense.
Originally posted by Prime
Very true. And KOTOR doesn't have any MP aspects at all. Personally, I rely on SP game for my Star Wars "feel".
exactly. me im on 56k. so i dont even know if it would be worth it to ask for galaxies at xmas. im still waiting for that question to be made. the only good thing to MP is most of the people surrounding you are real humans workin the mouse.. no silly stupid NPCs when you are in a real bad dog fight.