I've been following Governor Dean's stand on the issues for some time, and I must say that I don't agree with all of them, but I do like the fact that he seems to have gotten results in Vermont with his leadership style.

I also like the fact that he disagrees with the Bush Administration on many of the same points that I do.

Here's the link to his "Issue's Page" within his site: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=about_issues)

I'm interested in reading what other's think about his stand on the issues he lists.

I'm also impressed with the fact that he's a phsyician, which means that he's more likely to apply scientific method to problem solving rather than the dichotomous style of "professional politicians." I'm neither a strict democrat or republican, I've been known to be suckered by both sides from time to time, but Dean is making sense.

I'd vote for this guy based on the brief glance at the page you linked us to.

The clincher was this statement:-
We must cooperate with the community of nations in pursuing our foreign policy objectives.

i expect that bushes ideal is :-
The rest of the world must cooperate with the U.S of A in pursuing our foreign policy objectives or they die!!!

ok thats extreme and a misquote, but you see my point?

As i said in the Anti-American thread its working with the world rather than dictating to the world that is needed and this Dean fella seems like he's sincere.

I'll reserve final judgement until i've seen him talk, I still need convincing or at least affirmation that he is a force for good.

For more information on Howard Dean, click this link (http://www.deanforamerica.com/)

Some are comparing Dean to McGovern, as in this article: Why Howard Dean won't become president (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1071361744540&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724)

Dean was recently endorsed by Al Gore. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/12/opinion/main588307.shtml)

Current polls (http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm) put Dean ahead of the Democratic pack.

All honesty, I hope Dean beats Bush by 400000 miles. I supported Bush in the beginning, but now, I think he is a taterhead.

Yay for Dean. =)

(Note, I am NOT a democrat, nor do I like Al Gore, but Dean would be a good president regardless)

..You DO realize Dean was praised as a moderate in Vermont because his predecessor, who dropped during his first 300 days in office, raised taxes considerably so he himself didn't have to raise any, because he was rolling in dough. I am going to ram that down the throat of anyone who even mentions his Vermont governorship.

Next.

His smells like a demagouge. Like all the other Democrats seeminly on this field they seem to have virtually nothing except Bush bashing. The only Democratic presidential nominee I'd consider electing is Lieberman, and the fact Al Gore backstabbed Lieberman grants Dean negative points.

..I'd also like to see what historical data says physicans react logically to issues.

Well, now that Saddam is captured, I believe Dean will have a harder time criticizing the Bush adminstration over how the war was a complete waste of time. I believe he will turn his focus upon home issues like the economy and education policy, since the issue of war has just granted the Bush adminstration quite a considerable victory IMHO.

Seems like he has some well thought out policies; that wont kill us all.

He seems trustable, but I don't know. I did like the work he did as Vermont governor.
Especially allowing gay civil unions. :)

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
..You DO realize Dean was praised as a moderate in Vermont because his predecessor, who dropped during his first 300 days in office, raised taxes considerably so he himself didn't have to raise any, because he was rolling in dough. I am going to ram that down the throat of anyone who even mentions his Vermont governorship.

Do you have a reference to cite that information from or did you hear it on Rush Limbaugh? You're basically criticising one person because of the actions of another? That opens up plenty: Osama Bin Laden becomes G.W. Bush's fault because he was trained by G.W.'s father.

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
His smells like a demagouge. Like all the other Democrats seeminly on this field they seem to have virtually nothing except Bush bashing.

Now there's a critique! You don't like the way he smells.

Come on LV, admit the real reason you don't like Dean: you party tells you to. I bet you didn't complain when the tables were turned and it was about "Clinton bashing."

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
..I'd also like to see what historical data says physicans react logically to issues.

You're saying you don't trust doctors? 11 + years of college having "procedure" and "scientific method" drilled into their heads? Critical thinking and ability to reason are mandatory as a physician. But there are plenty of physicians who've gone into politics. Like Michael Burgess (R) (http://burgess.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=2017) for instance.

I'd like to see what empirical data shows physicians cannot react logically to issues. I think they're more likely to than anyone in politics with an MBA.

Originally posted by wassup
Well, now that Saddam is captured, I believe Dean will have a harder time criticizing the Bush adminstration over how the war was a complete waste of time.

You mean he can't point out that Saddam Hussein wasn't responsible for 9/11 or terrorism against the U.S. and that we've let the real culprit slip away for one that we thought we could get fairly easily? And that we wasted billions of taxpayer's money and servicemember's basically on a set of lies when he could have simply made the whole thing a human rights issue rather than a war on terror issue?

And why not make it a human rights issue? Because we wanted revenge for 9/11. The only human rights that concerned us most at that time was our own.

Dean might not be able to argue that Iraq is going to become a honey pot for certain American corporations in the oil industry either right?

Updated 14 December 2003. Total 469 US Dead -- 81 British, Iraqi and others, not included. (http://cryptome.org/mil-dead-iqw.htm)

don't know anything about him... and i guess that is always the problem for the new guy.

Even though i don't like bush and think he went to war for the wrong reasons, you know that he is going to make a lot of political capital out of the capture of Saddam. The whole problem with this "war on terror" thing is that peoples expectations have been so controlled by the way the politicians have phrased things that they are going to be all excited and jubilant about totally the wrong things.

Still, you could elect cookie monster and it would boost the rest of the world's opinon of you, so you can't loose.

It will make all the comedy sketch writers jobs harder if GW isn't re-elected though. :D

Originally posted by SkinWalker
Do you have a reference to cite that information from or did you hear it on Rush Limbaugh? You're basically criticising one person because of the actions of another? That opens up plenty: Osama Bin Laden becomes G.W. Bush's fault because he was trained by G.W.'s father.



Now there's a critique! You don't like the way he smells.

Come on LV, admit the real reason you don't like Dean: you party tells you to. I bet you didn't complain when the tables were turned and it was about "Clinton bashing."



You're saying you don't trust doctors? 11 + years of college having "procedure" and "scientific method" drilled into their heads? Critical thinking and ability to reason are mandatory as a physician. But there are plenty of physicians who've gone into politics. Like Michael Burgess (R) (http://burgess.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=2017) for instance.

I'd like to see what empirical data shows physicians cannot react logically to issues. I think they're more likely to than anyone in politics with an MBA.

What? I wasn't criticizing Dean over it, I was more or less setting the record straight, by saying he could act like a moderate because his precessor had raised taxes for him. It was a side comment from some Democrat on the O'Reilly Factor at the last second, whose name totally slips my mind.

Oh come on, while I'm obviously Republican I didn't like how they were dogpiling Clinton UNTIL he comitted perjury, and had the guts to go on national TV and deny the sex charges, then, after recieving thousands of sympathy letters, breaking the news that "Hey! I was lying! Hehe!". Don't you DARE mention WMD yet, you can't even prove Bush lied with intent to mislead.

One editorial of the Daily News whose name (again) slips my mind, summed up my opinion on Dean nicely. He's a man who believes his and only his diagnosis is right, with subdued arrogance.

Even though this doesn't concern me directly, I think Dean would make a better president then Bush. Well, it's just a thought, only time will tell.

Listening to editorials without making up your own opinion is not a good thing...it just means people can easily put stuff into your head without you looking deeply into them yourself.

As for Lieberman, I believe he's the one who wanted to ban violent video games. As a gamer, I just hope he never becomes a president :D

Bad idea to criticize me on that, I just like reading editorials and that quote stuck.

Surprisingly enough I'm a gamer, and I LIKE Lieberman. Go figure.

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
One editorial of the Daily News whose name (again) slips my mind, summed up my opinion on Dean nicely. He's a man who believes his and only his diagnosis is right, with subdued arrogance. And that thought process is different from Bush's, how?

Exactly. :P

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
Exactly. :P lol, I can see what you are talking about. While I do understand and see Dean character flaws I just leave myself out of this because all of these candidates are pretty much pricks and *******s. Except Al Sharpton, he's pretty fun to watch on the Democratic debate.

What i don't understand is how in hell can people like Dean when he is just as much of an ass as Bush can be, only he's an ass more often?

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
What i don't understand is how in hell can people like Dean when he is just as much of an ass as Bush can be, only he's an ass more often? True he shows up to be an ass quite often but I did like his stance on gay civil unions and getting it placed as legally acceptable. That's about as far as I know 100% of what he did as governor, but I also heard he fixed up their tax problem but... I'm not certain about that.

That was the preceding governor, who died after 300 days in office.

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
What i don't understand is how in hell can people like Dean when he is just as much of an ass as Bush can be, only he's an ass more often?

Perhaps because there are many who don't see him as an ass. I see that he echos many of the same sentiments as I, though not all. His economic plans (if elected) make sense. Tax cuts of the Bush admin are stupid. The demographic that gets the most benifit is the one well above the average American income. I, personally, would be willing to forego a few hundred dollars if I knew that the money was going to benifit the social programs that the Bush admin has mandated: "no child left behind; the health insurance legislation; etc.

Dean also seems to believe about the War in Iraq exactly what I've always believed. Go back and search out some of the heated discussions we had here just under a year ago and you'll see what I mean.

His comments at a press conference yesterday were dead on. The United States is not safer from terrorism now that Saddam is caught. I'm sure this comment made quite a stir as the average American citizen equates Saddam Hussein with 9/11.

Why? Because Bush has mentioned 9/11 in every single speech he's ever given to the media or public regarding Hussein or pre-war Iraq. This is a calculated deception. It's the kind I would use if I were President (that would be a warning to never vote for me, BTW). In other words, its a lie. But one with plausible deniability.

Dean is willing to stand up and offer valid criticism about and to President Bush when everyone else is bending over kissing his rosey cheeks. Bush is this country's biggest threat.

*Yawns in boredom* Why i expected that I have no idea. And you say I'M partisan?

My main reason for liking Dean is his consistent stance against the hyper agressive anti democratic administration run by Cheney and his step & fetch boy, Bush.

The other Democrats have completely screwed themselves with their on again off again support of the white house policies.



Of course I would vote for a potted plant before I would vote for a bush.