Just a question... would you like SP mode's gameplay to be similar to Strife's?

It's one of the most interesting FPS I played cuz it had a multiple choice storyline combined with adventure elements.

Speaking for myself... I wouldn't mind having a similar type of gameplay in the SP mode.

The map is continuos but of course divided into sectors... so only the sector you are in is loaded... NPC's walk on the street and you can tak to them for info and quest assignments... these adventure/rpg elements were very well implemented into Strife never straying it from them FPS type of game. It beats running around the map looking for switches and keys. And besides the primary quests needed to advance in the game, you could also choose to undertake secondary quests for bonuses or advantages. Maybe even get a shop for weapons and other equipment on civilian populated areas.

Your thoughts plz.

I played the strife demo a looong time ago :) And well, back then I liked it, but in hindsight, it doesn't look that exciting to me!! I haven't played the full game though...

What's strife?Really haven't heard of it...o_O

....... what is strife??


..... i like beer

What about Deus Ex? Was it kind of like that. I thought that created such a great balance between RPG and FPS and even stealth games. It's a shame so few games have emulated its success. I would think a jedi game would be perfectly suited for that format, as opposed to say, Doom.

Originally posted by Rockstar
....... what is strife??


..... i like beer

Please dont spam. Thank you.

Here (http://www.cdmag.com/articles/009/125/strife_review.html) is the best review I could dig up on the internet on Strife.

Originally posted by Reprehence
What about Deus Ex? Was it kind of like that. I thought that created such a great balance between RPG and FPS and even stealth games. It's a shame so few games have emulated its success. I would think a jedi game would be perfectly suited for that format, as opposed to say, Doom.

No Deus Ex is totally different and Raven shouldn't attempt to get assets of DX into JA!! As for strife, it was based on the Doom engine and Duke Nukem 3D (which appeared around the same time I believe) was way better in my opinion :) Jumping, strafing, ducking and AIMING rules ;)

I agree that 1) more NPCs and 2) more interaction with them would be great, but don't make it too RPG like please :)

Thx for the link wassup. :)

And yes I'm merely talking about interaction and NPCs. Icant speak for Deus Ex since ihavent played it yet... but Strife is by all means an FPS... there was no stats or anything... it just had an interactive kind of play and rules in populated areas (if u fire your gun...security would be all over you)...other than that it's your average everyday FPS.

Originally posted by BloodRiot
Icant speak for Deus Ex since ihavent played it yet...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Really, I suggest you buy it NOW!! It's definately my #1 singleplayer game of all time!!

Oh and the strife thing sounds ok, I'd definately like some of those areas in JA, like Mos Eisly, Nar Shaddaa etc :)

HertogJan...
It's unclear to me from your two posts if you liked DX or strife more? As for DX - it seems to me that JK had some RPG elements - and JA will have some similar aspects - e.g. choosing your force powers and how you ramp up in them - picking a particular saber style (single/dbl/staff) etc. If your talking about XP points and feats and spending them in particular areas as a character levels up - then yes, I agree I don't want to have to fiddle with that. I think I'll like where JA is heading in this regard.

I think we both agree that having civilian areas and interactions with neutral npc's would add a needed element to the game. E.g. It would be nice to get info from an npc you were nice to that later helps you get around a dangerous trap or something. It struck me that in JO you pretty much never had to turn your saber off - you could pretty much go through the game with it on the whole time (except when you were forced to turn it off at the beginning of nar-shadaa). It seemed a little odd - especially when thinking about what jedi do in the movies.

People who just want to run around and kill everything in sight can (and usually primarily do) play MP or ladder maps.

<sigh> i really hope JA ISNT like Deus Ex, its gotta be one of the crappiest SP games ive seen, but people seem to love it for some reason. Theres 3 different endings, WOW! thats really amazing. But- you start off with such a crap character, you cant even shoot somebody who is standing 3 metres away from you (and this is with 'standard' pistol skill by the way), the actual story didnt get me much either.

HL and max payne are my picks for 'greatest SP game ever', ooh and Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries (yes, mech 2 was waaaay better than 4)

But an environment where you can interact with NPC's and explore with a bit more freedom would be nice...like a more detailed Jedi Academy, a center point where you get your new missions or something like that.

Originally posted by Matariel
<sigh> i really hope JA ISNT like Deus Ex, its gotta be one of the crappiest SP games ive seen, but people seem to love it for some reason. Theres 3 different endings, WOW! thats really amazing. But- you start off with such a crap character, you cant even shoot somebody who is standing 3 metres away from you (and this is with 'standard' pistol skill by the way), the actual story didnt get me much either.

In my opinion you must have not understood DX at all. First of all the thing with the shooting, you might try to upgrade your skills. This is why it was challenging. Also in my my opinion, the game was more about the stealth and story line than anything. It might be cool to see LA and Raven incorperate this in JA. I would also like to thank Reprehence for pointing this out. (at least there are some people with brains here)

Plz delete one of those two posts ;) (Click the edit button en select the delete option)

And I liked DX better, maybe too because I never played much strife, only the demo waaaay back in like 1997 or so :)

DX Gameplay was great, but yeah, you shouldn't bring too much RPG elements into JA. But now I think about it, you're right; selecting certain forcepowers, saber styles etc IS kinda RPGish :) And I'd like to get some info from civilians, but not too much I hope, I'm not waiting for endless conversations (DX had some of those, but it fitted in with the theme). It would be more 'realistic' though, to have a Jedi gather some intelligence first, before going into action :)

i realise that Deus Ex was very popular, and im sure that it's a nicely designed game (generally) but the characters you play are just too weak when you start out, and they're sposed to be cyborgs, very advanced ones at that. This should also apply to JA, but because you are a learning Padawan, you should be weak at the start of the game, and learn new moves/force powers along the way to get better.
To me, the Deus Ex idea of having cyborgs didnt lend itself well to this 'learning and getting better as you go' idea, since cyborgs should be really really good to start off anyway (not to mention 'Deus Ex' means 'Of God' in Latin...rough translation by the way, its an inflected syntax ;) )

But- :) I like the idea of 'RPG' style levelling up and stuff (experience buys you better skills etc etc...) for a Jedi Knight game, because you're essentially a swordfighting mage. The whole Jedi genre would fit really well to an RPG

I don't want to be-labor the DX issue:

I didn't like the "marksmenship" in DX either (at least at the beginning) a good FPS should rely on the mouse/keyboard skills of the player and not try to control it too much - I'd say sniper sway would be an exception - of course that imperial blaster never seems to hit anything anyway :).

It looks like JA will allow players to pick which force/saber skills one improves as the game goes on. This is much better than in JO where you just got what you got as the game progressed. The real question is whether there will be missions where that will matter. Will a push/jump player have to play a level in a different manner than a lightening/rage player? E.g. one path will have harder jumps and another more enemy resistance? That's the kind of depth that would make the game replayable.

The other thing is mystery - what is the mystery? what is the suspence? JO had a decent story, but you pretty much knew how it would end - the crystals - the bad guys - where just revealed to soon. When you don't know what the hell is going on, it makes "investigation" and interaction with NPCs more important and more rewarding. I'd like to be able to fight my way through a story that I'm trying to figure out as well. Of course, that puts a lot of pressure on the ending.

Oh - and Deus Ex doesn't mean "of God," which would be de Deum or more simply Dei. Deus ex refers to a drama/literature term, Deus Ex Machina (God out of (or outside of) the Machine - it refers to a contrivance, usually in the form of a person or occurence, in a drama that solves an unsolvable situation. It's the sort of thing that occured in Star Trek episodes all the time :).

aaah the wonderful language that is latin, no wonder its dead. :)

'Deus' means literally 'to raise up', but when used in an inflection, like using 'ex' which makes the previous word an adjective, it becomes 'Of God'. Trust me, ive gone through many latin phrasebooks trying to find cool sounding latin mottos/phrases.
Just remember that Latin doesnt work the same way as english, Ex Deux means something completely different again :)

And 'Deus Ex Machinma', what a lovely phrase...i felt a bit like that at the end of JK2, and most games these days, sadly to say. Literally it means "The Machines of God", and is a term invented in the very very early theatre days (like Roman theatre, oddly enough, the Romans spoke Latin) It describes a story or play that is ended abruptly with little or no explaination, seemingly by the hand of god. The musical episode of Buffy is a fine example (Xander did it, etc etc). If you want more depth, i think Baz Luhrman goes into it a bit in the commentary track for Moulin Rouge (one of them anyway...he's in both).
So just to clarify that rambling (sorry, its 3am here), the 'Machines of God' are just used to explain away anything that the writer cant think of for the ending...or theres no time to explain it all. Just watch "Once More, With Feeling" and you'll see what i mean :)

Ok - I don't want to get into a big thing here...but:

Deus ex machina comes from the older Gk. theos ek mechanes (little surprise since the Romans "stole" much of Greek culture for their own - though luckily not their battle tactics :)). It originally referred to a crane that lowered the "god" at the end of a play to render judgement and decide the outcome of the drama. So it's not "god's machine" or "The machine of a god," but "a god from a machine." I guess one could say machine of god, but that's an unclear translation. I think the reference is clear in DX particularly at the end. But that is another topic.

Deus doesn't mean to raise up - it means deity. Maybe there is some obscure etymology there, but no Roman or medieval would think "raise up" if you said Deus.

ex is a preposition - it doesn't turn the previous word into an adjective automatically (perhaps you were thinking of magna cum laude)- for one thing they'd have to agree in case and number - dea ex machina - which would mean "from a divine machine." I don't remember in particular if ex is used that way much - I admit my latin is rusty (though I did have two years of it). Also I don't think Deus is used adjectivally very often (if ever). I think they would normally use divinus,a,um. And it certainly doesn't change ex from meaning "from" to "of".

I'm sure you realize Ex Deux means nothing - it's bad grammar.:)

As you correctly point out, it later came to mean any contrived ending that solves all of the problems - and sometimes - anything supernatural or external (divine) to the system and context the work creates. For instance magic in a Dirty Harry movie but not blocking blaster bolts in Star Wars.:)

as i said before, Latin is a very compliated language, and simple words do not have a set meaning (like Deus means "God", it doesnt every time) its a very contextual language. In most occasions Deus means to raise up, or to elevate, but when used in 'Deus Ex' it becomes 'Of God', or more literally, 'Of a Higher Place', which can be interpreted as simply 'Of God'

I dont wanna make a bug thing outta this either, but i wanted to know what 'Deus Ex' meant, and it bugged me for a long time. So i 'learned' latin, since it wasnt in any of the phrasebooks ive seen, i had to actually find a translation according to the rules of Latin, and it really is all to do with context. I have a friend who is studying linguistics right now who helped me out a bit, but it really is a complex language- takes years to learn.

But anyway, i hated Deus Ex the game, but some elements would be cool for JA, as long as there was a better, more compelling story. :)

Haha very nice, this, very offtopic too :p :p

This isn't a Deus Ex topic, but a JA one :D And I think we can agree that if JA manages to be as great as DX, it will be a great game :p Too bad the title isn't as inspirational as Deus Ex :D

Yes, way off topic - yes, years to learn (I took two) - yes, all languages are contextual - yes, please find a latin teacher and have them do a transliteration of it for you - don't take my word for it.

Do people think good story line/developing skills/npc interaction are RPG? I've seen some people yammering about keeping the "RPG types" out of the discussion in another thread. Isn't the point of JA to bring back some of the nice RPG elements present in JK1 while still keeping the saber/gun part of the game pretty much the same? There also seems to be a large focus on the MP aspect when discussing these topics (particularly when it comes to balancing) when I think most people will play the SP and a smaller percent actually play MP very much. I seem to remember a poll from one of the sites asking whether people would prefer new SP or MP maps. SP won by a striking percentage.

Well you have RPG and RPG. Most people here would like some RPG elements in the SP portion of the game. Choose your forcepowers, sabers, character etc. It's all about choice (couldn't resist, sorry :p)

But the RPG people here are often referring to is online RPGing; die hard star wars fans wanted to 'roleplay' on, say FFA, servers, enforcing their rules on everyone there. For example: they would all sit (using a /amsit command) in a circle, just chatting and pretending they are the Jedi council :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now if they do that on their own servers, it's OK with me, fine, but when I'm going on a normal FFA servers, I want to fight. But when you slaughter some of those RPGing 'fanboys', they vote you away... ON A PUBLIC SERVER!!!

That pretty much divided the community and it spoiled the fun for many people :(

Now I see. Can't we all just git along?! :)

now, sitting in a circle and singing coombayaa is just stupid! its a phreakin action game, where you are supposed to kill other people!! Dont get me wrong, i dont mind the occasional bow, and i dont attack ppl with the chat icon above their head, but thats just really really stupid!!

If you want to take the Jedi mythos seriously and apply it to a game, a server full of light Jedi would not have any fights at all, they are taught to defend themselves- never to attack. But of course people dont take that part literally, so killing abounds- but taking the 'roleplaying' waaay too seriously is just really really dumb. Ive never seen anything worse than a bow before a duel. My mates and i do it cos it looks funny while we're at a lan, the jedi occillating up and down while you shout out: "So we meet again, Jolly Elf! This time you will surely die!!" its really entertaining :) Looks like the guy is talking/taunting his opponent. I really should look up some of the emote commands to wow my lan-mates...

JA looks to be RPG based anyway, you make your own character, complete with clothing, lightsabre colour and style, character race and gender, and even choose which force powers you use. I didnt like the JK2 SP method of just recieving the force powers once you'd gotten to a specific point in the game, i prefer to earn it through fighting, solving puzzles or perhaps finding hidden secrets or something.

But i truly, truly hope that JA wont be like Deus Ex, where your character when you start off just plain sucks, and the storyline is flimsy...frankly the less said about that game, the better :) So nobody speak of it again!! Lest you incur the wrath of my random smilies!!! har har har!!!:deathstar :biggs: :bdroid1: :bdroid2: :amidala: :c3po: :jawa :fett:

Actually in the beginning, I thought bowing was really great, because back then, it was kinda showing respect to your opponent. PPl were really nice in the beginning. But later on all the rules came, and I don't want to be part of those roleplaying whiners. Now I just nod if someone bows :) But if they choose to fight right away, it's fine with me :D

Oh, I don't attack ppl with the chatting symbol or their saber off in Duel mode. In FFA I just might kill someone with saber off, unless it's against server rules. In the last case, I quit the server most of the time :)

I did have one server though, where they were all very strict about the rules, so I obeyed those rules and had some fun with them. Duels were quite nice there too, since everyone fought and not just stood there doing nothing...

I've been to some Jedi Academy mod servers... and some where entertaining.

Well I never actually saw one of those 3d graphic chatrooms, the servers i went where basically FFA at bespin cloud city divided into 2 types of fighting... the main street for all out war and the landing pad for duel like battles.

It was a bit fun and people were polite and fun all the time... most of the chat was something like "who's next?" or "so.. we meet again!" and of course the "GF".

Being on a waiting list in DUEL can be boring sometimes cuz you cant do nothing... in these server people actually waited in line and the fights were interesting to watch and fight.

Well it was in the server rules and there was no bossy like gammer at 10th place yelling them out.

Anyway... going back to the topic of the thread.. I see that most people never played Strife... heck damn.. i was hoping that was the least used choice... ;p

Well then let's just say that im merely talking about the possibility of choice on how the game's storyline procedes (aparently it will be like this) but most importantly to enrich the link between storyline and gameplay by adding more character/NPC interaction.

Let's face it... the find the door switch/key or escort the NPC puzzles get old real fast... the first example is the main puzzle ever since Doom.

Well, im going to create an example situation for all those who dont know Strife. I'm going to re-create the nar shadaa cantina scene... or at least how it could have been done for strife.

-(...)Kyle: Do you know how I can get in touch with Reelo Baruk?
Chiss: Trulies?
K: Trulies!
C: Ok...I'll help you... for a price!
K: Figures! How much?
C: It is more of a task rather than payments! I have this problem with a debts. Theres this guy at "placeXYZ" who owes me alot of moneys. Go to his place... and bring me the moneys he stoles me.
(...)-

There would be more detail to the story but you get the picture... you'd have a lil task before he'd help you... willingly. the speech would end with a "will you this for mes?" with a yes/no reply from the player... choosign yes, you'd have to find this place and get an object from inside... either using stealth or walk~ing in with saber in hadn.. players choice.. and the no would probably start the cantina fight scene we know in JO's nar shadaa. Both choices would have pros and cons...and would balance the path you follow in the game... obviously the task could be to assassinate someone.. which could lead to a more dark sidish path to the one who takes it.

Cheers.

Hmmm I dunno, sounds an awfull lot like Deus Ex to me.

Smuggler: "Hey a friend of minde was captured by MJ12, if your rescue him I won't charge these rediculous prizes!"
JC Denton: "I'll see what I can do"

And if you rescue him you only have to pay half the money or so... But the smuggles sells crap anyway :D

So a few sub-quests would be ok, but I don't think JA will be the game for this :( Ah well, I'm looking forward to DX2 too!!

Well you may be right... I wouldn't want useless subquests... i'm talking about bonus stuff and primary stuff.. the primary stuff are things you must do to complete a level..the others are not necessary and the player may very well chose not to undertake them. Let's say the extra quests grants 1 extra point of force at the end of the level... or gives you a key that unlocks an easier alternate way into the finish area.

I reckon Deus Ex has alot of RPG into it... Strife from what I reckon is a simpler version of Deus Ex.

Anyway... if anyone still thinks it's best not included I dont have anything to say to that... this is a opinion sharing thread. :)

Cheers.

deus ex rules, but JA isn't going to be DX. I would settle for npcs that said entertaining things when you clicked on them, ran away when the shooting started and, maybe, gave you powerups or led you to hidden areas if you saved them... with killing/saving infulencing your lightside/darkside progression.

I like the strife/DX stuff you're talking about - esp. if you can get the same thing more than one way - maybe you get an access code to the roof from one guy or an access code to the basement from another guy.

By the way I thought Elite Force II had some nice NPC interactions - not great - but you could ignore them or listen and they often added to the story. Occassionally you could solve a "puzzle" faster - even if there weren't "choose the answer" kind of responses - if you just kept clicking on the NPC. it defintely added to the immersion factor.