Well i'm not too keen of making up new force powers that we havent had the chance of seeing either in the movies or the many forms of EU...

But for all that want to enable the light side to give a few bites of it's own without getting into a more dark sidish MO i think we have a very good reference i nthe past jedi knights that is pretty damn well good in my opnion which is Force Blind.

Also, Movie Battles Mod presented a version of Persuation that I find much more true to the name. If you persuade someone (must be targeted) that persona cannot attack for the duration of the power or until it is attacked first by the force user... I was never too keen of force power being a name for invisibility.
I think Force Persuation is a power that could have several uses and it's really poor to reduce it to invisibility. Maybe making it random effects when used, all of them to confuse or other wise difficulting the attack of the opponent. Something like what i wrote above seen in movie battles, a temporary "dizzyness" effect that makes the character less responsive to the players controls or even creating mirror images of the force persuation user... ("I'm not here... I'm actually THERE!" ;p)

I DO agree that the light side is too based on counters and it's always more fun to have one or two powers that dont depend on the opponent's action to work.

right on blood riot

i do agree the light side isn't necessarily weak, but it does need to be less counter based. i still think even just having an attack which was in the form of an enhanced push which could be used when enough energy from force absorb had been obtained.

i think that blinding should be re-introduced :)

also i think that force drain shouldn't have anywhere near the fan it has, i think that it should be targeted like push and pull.

i agree also that both sides should have force 'telekinesis' where they can lift up enemies and objects and throw them around..... why should only the dark side have it?? lol telekinesis is the force in its [U]PURIST[U] form. not darkest lol

but darkies should still get the move around grip ability when on lvl 3

Force Telekenisis as u put it should even be a neutral power... the distinction between telekenisis and grip is that while holding a person with telekenisis it doesnt cause damage.

And grip should not have the move around ability but since JA allows power combinning it COULD be combined with telekenisis for move action.

The new force powers that were reported in the articles sound like a good addition to me. the force sense or something like that appealed to me.

Force drain should be removed in my opinion or at least be really weak in comparison to force heal. and Lightning should be the cream of the crop dark side power that costs big time to have it. Maybe spamming can be controlled likethat.

But to be honest wether its neutral, light or dark side powers... i would prefer to have utilitary powers rather tha offensive/defensive powers.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i do agree the light side isn't necessarily weak, but it does need to be less counter based. How are you going to change it so that it isn't counter-based but not an attack?

Originally posted by Rockstar
i agree also that both sides should have force 'telekinesis' where they can lift up enemies and objects and throw them around..... why should only the dark side have it?? lol telekinesis is the force in its [U]PURIST[U] form. not darkest lol Force Push and Pull are telekenisis, and both sides have that now. Lifting someone and throwing them around to hurt them is using the Force for offensive purposes, which is, of course, the dark side.

Force Push and Pull are telekenisis, and both sides have that now. Lifting someone and throwing them around to hurt them is using the Force for offensive purposes, which is, of course, the dark side.Hmmmm, one could grip someone in self-defence. Luke used it in RotJ on a gammorean or two, too.

Hey, this canon stuff is fun! :D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone in the movies being choked and lifted off the ground by the force alone. DV lifted that guy in ANH with his hands, and all of his other chokes didn't move anyone, just made them cough and hack and so on. I don't think choke would work against a jedi, personally. Those really powerful, insta-kill moves would only work on "the weak minded". In my own personal opinion, I think that those sorts of moves should be taken out of MP and reserved for SP, where they make more sense. The MP force powers should be little momentum shifters, as well a few lightnings and pushes.

I think that those sorts of moves should be taken out of MP and reserved for SP, where they make more sense. Grip's been a part of the series from the beginning... I see no reason to remove it.

Originally posted by Spider AL
Hmmmm, one could grip someone in self-defence. Luke used it in RotJ on a gammorean or two, too.

Hey, this canon stuff is fun! :D All the more reason to follow the MOTS system of the Force. :)

I was refering, however, to the comment by Rockstar:

both sides should have force 'telekinesis' where they can lift up enemies and objects and throw them around..... why should only the dark side have it?? lol telekinesis is the force in its [U]PURIST[U] form. not darkest lol

Lifting someone up and throwing them around, all the while gripping them, sounds pretty "dark side" to me :D

umm prime.... i mean no offense when i say you seem to be a stubborn dark sider

in episode 1 qui-gon !PUSHED! the droids to the ground and DAMAGED Them......... he used the force to HURT!!! OMG!!!! ..... OOOMMMMMGGGGGG!!!!!!!! all im saying is allow for a nastier push so the light side aint just a sitting duck who just has a counter button for everything.

in Ep 2 anikin levitates balls in the air, although he shouldn't use the force for leasure (as he saids) it is still in the light side's range and even LUKE!! lifts things like rocks

i was refering to the ability to lift someone up and throw them about in to obsticles, force push can send people frontward into walls, telekinesis would allow more 3d movement

you seem to think that the light side is only capable of creating shields and healing which is just not correct. im sorry.

the dark side however, has grip on the otherhad which is dark due to the fact it kills the victim offensively and painfully (due to stragulation) and a dark one can enjoy watching his victim choke to death .... muhahahaha (gotta love it) :cool:

if you accept that lightside powers aren't usually offensive, then they have to be fairly defensive. You can then make these defensive powers either passive or active.

Personally, i really dislike the idea of passive defensive powers, it often seems as if people just turn on their defensive powers and then forget about them (until they have to turn them on again), almost rurning them into some form of permanent shield.

To my mind that doesn't seem as fun as the darkside powers, where you have to actively aim, time and unleash a lot of the attacks. (rather than just turning the attack on and then it automatically attacking anyone coming into range... the game wouldn't be much fun if it worked that way. )

So, if the developers wanted to make the light side more fun for me then they would need to make the light side powers into much more active, focused defensive powers.

Good examples might be Absorb or Protect, i would rather that these had to be aimed, much like offensive powers, so that to get the most from them you would have to keep the attacker under the crosshairs and have the button depressed.

This might mean you would have to re-balance some of the offensive powers, slightly reducing their damage, but make the defensive powers more efficient (once the defender manages to target their attacker) and make defending more skill based and less passive.

---

Other possible lightside powers might be Slow (reduces the target to walking pace, no jumping), or Shield from Force (prevents the user using force powers while under crosshair)

---

Persuasion (at least in team games) should make you appear as if you are on the other team (model and colour).

----

I liked the MotS system too, although maybe they could combine it with the JO one, and then factor in weapons, so maybe if you pick more powerful force powers you loose weapon skills, and picking higher level lightside powers might close off opposite darkside powers (and visa versa)

eg: player can put one star into grip ok, 2 stars and he can't pick the opposite lightside power, but if he puts all three stars into grip then he looses the opportunity to pick any lightside powers.

This allows jedi to experiment with opposite powers at low levels, but if they truely master the full power of a power on one side then they are tied to that side. (Luke only does small chokes as threats, not full on vader death chokes) :D

Great post toms :) Although I don't agree with you on all points, you have some very good ideas!

Personally, i really dislike the idea of passive defensive powers, it often seems as if people just turn on their defensive powers and then forget about them (until they have to turn them on again), almost rurning them into some form of permanent shield.


Yup, I already find most lightside powers too passive anyway, this would even increase that feeling!! Maybe light and dark side could both have some sort of passive ability, but it shouldn't be too powerfull.

So, if the developers wanted to make the light side more fun for me then they would need to make the light side powers into much more active, focused defensive powers.


I agree, that's why the lightside never appealed to me!

liked the MotS system too, although maybe they could combine it with the JO one, and then factor in weapons, so maybe if you pick more powerful force powers you loose weapon skills, and picking higher level lightside powers might close off opposite darkside powers (and visa versa)

eg: player can put one star into grip ok, 2 stars and he can't pick the opposite lightside power, but if he puts all three stars into grip then he looses the opportunity to pick any lightside powers.


Great!! Although the lower levels of most powers mean nothing :) Except maybe lvl 1 seeing, I use that a lot :)

as people say:

the lightside is dull

and in my opinion, in JKII was made unfaithful to SW when compared to the dark side.

i agree toms made some valid points, tho i disagree that you think that the shields should be aimed because that would be VEEERRY arkward and make the lightside even less appealing lol

i did like your ideas on force powers tho like:

- force slow (decreasing the speed of your target)

- force lightning should DEFINATELY BE BLOCKABLE WITH THE SABRE

- force lightning should be changed so it is not like a fan but like a concentrated stream (like in the movies) and does more damage and pushes enemies back

- imo i also think the idea of light jedi having a new power which once absorbed enough lightning and/or grip to make a small offensive force attack (eg an enhanced push which does damage on impact) would make the light side much cooler

- force conviction: can slow down the enemy targeted and possible null the effect of dark rage

Originally posted by Rockstar
umm prime.... i mean no offense when i say you seem to be a stubborn dark siderActually, I only play using the lightside. Just my opinion, but I find it to be more powerful than the dark side. It provides everything I need to be effective.

Originally posted by Rockstar
in episode 1 qui-gon !PUSHED! the droids to the ground and DAMAGED Them......... he used the force to HURT!!! OMG!!!! ..... OOOMMMMMGGGGGG!!!!!!!! all im saying is allow for a nastier push so the light side aint just a sitting duck who just has a counter button for everything. Note that he pushed a droid. Droids are not living things. Its just like pushing a toaster, blender, or TV. To my knowledge, I don't think we ever see a good guy force pushing another living person. But, this is a game, not a movie, and force push is equally useful for both sides.

Originally posted by Rockstar
in Ep 2 anikin levitates balls in the air, although he shouldn't use the force for leasure (as he saids) it is still in the light side's range and even LUKE!! lifts things like rocks Sure they lift things. And this ability is used when you force push/pull (i.e. moving things with your mind). I am not arguing that lifting things is bad. But you are not talking about lifting people up and throwing them around. A bit different, no? But if you really want to do it, it is already available. Just play using the dark side.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i was refering to the ability to lift someone up and throw them about in to obsticles, force push can send people frontward into walls, telekinesis would allow more 3d movement Once again, the dark side can already do this, so if you like this idea, you are certainly able to use it.

Originally posted by Rockstar
you seem to think that the light side is only capable of creating shields and healing which is just not correct. im sorry. When I did I say that? The light side can also push and pull, mind trick people, see others behind walls, and so on. Add on top of that the ability to absorb and heal, and the light side becomes very powerful. But note that powerful != attacking someone with the Force.

Originally posted by Rockstar
the dark side however, has grip on the otherhad which is dark due to the fact it kills the victim offensively and painfully (due to stragulation) and a dark one can enjoy watching his victim choke to death .... muhahahaha (gotta love it) :cool: If you think the dark side is so cool (which it is), why don't you play that way? Why do you feel the need to have offensive powers added to the light side?

umm prime....... the light side can already PUSH enemies and harm them by slamming them into obsticles. you seem to think that push and pull can move sideways, when ofcoarse you can't. in ROTJ luke levitates C3PO?? he doesn't do this to anyone else because he never has the need (nor did they have the specs to do it without it coming off lame). i really do go the light side but the fact is the light side is DULL

the dark side has the character it should, the light side needs a 'force reflect' to send back lightning and drain LIKE YODA (THE JEDI MASTER HIMSELF!!!) DOES IN EP2!!!!!

you CANNOT counter that arguement
Yoda is the lightest and most powerful lightsider. so! the light side can REFLECT in DEFENSE which still keeps the "only when attacked" attire of the lightside

this move would give the lightside some cool character too
i explained this move in another thread

also blinding and other "mind tricks" would also be cool to the light side

in ROTJ we see luke use grip?? imo that is more dark than pushing or pulling, yet he is a light jedi??

hmmm

i think that it should be made that the neutral force powers are the most used... maybe thats an answer?

Arg.

Whether or not something happens in teh moviez, doesn't mean that it should be in the game.

In the game we have (atm) two sides of the force. You can not "fall to the dark side" suddenly...you choose your side and stick with it.

If we didn't have two sides of the force (which we do have in JO) THEN we might think about having offensive powers for "almost light siders". But with the system we got (Dark OR Light), these powers would not only unbalance the game but also make it much more compicated to light siders (darkies would still have their simple controls) and require a whole lot of additional programming.

If the power would work as desribed in some other thread it would make no difference in MP. And if it actually made a difference somehow, then light side would become overpowered and no-one would want to play dark anymore.

As for "storing" dark side power >> who would keep spamming lightning on someone who has their absorb-like "taking all your lightning and shooting it back in your face later"-power on?

Answer: only those people who waste their entire flechette's ammo on two guys who are in dueling mode and yells "cheat!! U LAMER Y dont U DIE!!1". :D

This isn't quite on topic, but in one of the books, Tales From the Empire, I think, force choke isn't described so much as a physical choke, but more like a force acting on the respiratory system in general.

Um... also, personally, I don't think of Luke as a "light" jedi in the sense of the prequel movies. He is a little more flexible than, say, Qui Gon Jin. He is like the new breed of jedi. He only choked those Gamorreans to get past them, not to kill them. That's just my opinion.


I think the force powers need to be reworked so that they cannot overshadow the saber combat. They should offer slight shifts in the gameplay, not make or break a match, like grip and heal can right now.

i strongly agree with you there

the powers should be reworked so that they should not overshaddow sabre combat. i think that the neutral powers should dominate the game rather than the side specific powers.

think about it, you can't actually gain THAT much advantage by using jump, push or pull, when compared to say... protect or lightning??

you never see the jedi in the movies zap each other etc when they have actually enguaged in a sabre fight

they need to make the force powers slower paced in mp so that they are not so dominating, they should be extra's to aid you in combat but should not decide a battles outcome. to do this they should be slowed down in pace eg one must walk to use lightning, and lightning should affect a single target with a single stream of lightning, the light can counter this with absorb, which is changed so that the jedi can only walk, but with his hand infront of him with a shield infront of him.

also the force reflect idea would be cool (i mentioned in another thread)

drain should be removed all together, not just because of its annoyance, but because i could never really see a sith really using it in the movie :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Rockstar
umm prime....... the light side can already PUSH enemies and harm them by slamming them into obsticles. Not in MP they can't. You can't get hurt by being pushed into something. They can be pushed off a cliff though. :)

Originally posted by Rockstar
you seem to think that push and pull can move sideways, when ofcoarse you can't. in ROTJ luke levitates C3PO?? he doesn't do this to anyone else because he never has the need (nor did they have the specs to do it without it coming off lame). When exactly did I say that? I was saying that the power of moving things with your mind is what gives a Jedi both his ability to push someone, and his ability to lift someone. So, the fact that everyone in the game can push/pull, this represents that everyone can move things with your mind. The point is, the game does not need to allow lightsiders to lift people up and throw them around into things to show they can move things with their minds.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i really do go the light side but the fact is the light side is DULL And here, once again, is the problem. You complain all about how the light side is "lamerz" and "not kewl", and how the dark side is "l33t" and "ownz". Yet you say you play the light side. Why? Why do you insist on playing the light side when it is "dull" and the dark side has the abilities that you want to use?

Originally posted by Rockstar
the dark side has the character it should, the light side needs a 'force reflect' to send back lightning and drain LIKE YODA (THE JEDI MASTER HIMSELF!!!) DOES IN EP2!!!!! Luc has said this best. This is a game, not a movie. Adding something like this would give an unfair advantage to the light side. Just because Yoda does it, who as you say is "JEDI MASTER HIMSELF!!!", does that mean every Jedi can do it? I would say that he is probably a special case. Should every player be able to lift up things the size of X-Wings and move them around too?

Originally posted by Rockstar
you CANNOT counter that arguement. Yoda is the lightest and most powerful lightsider. so! the light side can REFLECT in DEFENSE which still keeps the "only when attacked" attire of the lightside I just did. :D

Originally posted by Rockstar
this move would give the lightside some cool character too
i explained this move in another thread The light side does not need "cool character". It has all the "character" is needs now. Those of us to play using the light side do so because it has all the abilities we want right now. If I wanted dark side powers, I would play using the dark side. Why don't you do the same?

Originally posted by Rockstar
in ROTJ we see luke use grip?? imo that is more dark than pushing or pulling, yet he is a light jedi?? Of course, he does also almost decend to the dark side at the end of the movie. :)

Originally posted by Luc Solar
Whether or not something happens in teh moviez, doesn't mean that it should be in the game.

In the game we have (atm) two sides of the force. You can not "fall to the dark side" suddenly...you choose your side and stick with it. Exactly. Gameplay is key here.

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
I think the force powers need to be reworked so that they cannot overshadow the saber combat. They should offer slight shifts in the gameplay, not make or break a match, like grip and heal can right now. I disagree. Being powerful with the Force defines the Jedi. Besides, there are many players who do not play the JK series just because of lightsabers. People want to be able to have lots of force powers. Why limit this? This is the thing that lead to nerfed powers in 1.03 and 1.04. Why is it bad that the Force can help decide the outcome of a battle. If you don't like to play this way, you can certainly play on a NF server.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i think that the neutral powers should dominate the game rather than the side specific powers.

think about it, you can't actually gain THAT much advantage by using jump, push or pull, when compared to say... protect or lightning?? Why should neutral powers dominate? Why have light and dark if they aren't going to be as effective anyway? All powers should be equally useful.

Originally posted by Rockstar
you never see the jedi in the movies zap each other etc when they have actually enguaged in a sabre fight Probably because, just like JO, the zapping done by the dark side can be countered by the light side. And so, it is not as effective at that point. The game does this now anyway.

Originally posted by Rockstar
they need to make the force powers slower paced in mp so that they are not so dominating, they should be extra's to aid you in combat but should not decide a battles outcome. to do this they should be slowed down in pace eg one must walk to use lightning, and lightning should affect a single target with a single stream of lightning, the light can counter this with absorb, which is changed so that the jedi can only walk, but with his hand infront of him with a shield infront of him. Slower? Why? What purpose would it serve? Why should it not have the ability to decide a battle's outcome? This is the kind of thing that lead to the dreaded 1.03 patch. I get the impression that you have a hard time countering some of the attacks people do against you. Instead of learning how to defeat these attacks, you want to have them limited or removed from the game all together. You just want the game changed around just to fit how you want to play.

Originally posted by Rockstar
also the force reflect idea would be cool (i mentioned in another thread) Luc has explained why this would not work.

Originally posted by Rockstar
drain should be removed all together, not just because of its annoyance, but because i could never really see a sith really using it in the movie Well, there you have it. You can't counter drain, so you want it removed. Just because we don't see it in the movie, does that mean the power does not exist?

ummm prime

i think you've misinterpreted some facts here

i DON'T want the game changed to fit around ME! i find the light side quite easy to use. its just a simple case of having your absorb and heal keys hotkeyed easily.

i have not trouble at all countering any dark attacks.

its just i like the good guys for some reason in most things. but this isn't a case about ME. i want the light side to appeal more to OTHER people. they gave the darkside grip and lightning which look very cool, its just the lightside imho (which may not be yours) does not compete with the "coolness" of the darkside because its powers all do pretty much the same thing

i don't see what the harm in a "force reflect" would do if LIGHTNING WAS REWORKED. i said that! the current lightning would not work for it. read my description CAREFULLY...

i simply said the game should be slowed to give a more 'cool' and 'realisitic' feeling to the game. you don't see jedis running around in circles swinging sabers wilding with one hand and shooting confetti with the other. i was just SUGGESTING something that might hype up the atmosphere so it would feel more starwarsy and less "quake 3 frag festy" .... if you kinda follow?? i do love the frag festivity for guns, but sabers only it might've been a change of pace.

i just simply want the light side to have more of a definate characteristical feeling, and just suggested some ways... the addition of force blinding and other such powers would also aid this.

anyways, my 2 cents. catcya:D

to reply to luc solars arguement

one could already argue that the light controls are harder than the dark, but are still quite easy once mastered.

wtf is difficult about having absorbed hotkeyed (lets say "KEY A") and reflect hotkeyed (KEY B). someone uses lightning. press key A. you watch a tiny bar on the side of your screen. then you can press key B when you want and send it back.

as i said DARKIES COULD COUNTER REFLECTED LIGHTNING WITH THEIR OWN! (eg DOOKU & obi wan) and this is NOT unfair as the darkies would have much more mana than the jedi's reflected energy. and if lucas arts made it so the red stance could block lightning at the expense of force, then there is nothing to loose??

and you make it sound like someone could just reflect lightning all day. .... remember you have to absorb the lightning first. and if nobody uses it on you then you are just weaker as u've put points on a non-used move (like absorb when light vs light)

also to make it fair the absorbed energy bar would slowly begin to go down immediately after dark energy and stopped being absorbed.

Originally posted by Rockstar
ummm prime

i think you've misinterpreted some facts here

i DON'T want the game changed to fit around ME! But to me, this is how it comes across. You want to pretend that you are a good Jedi, but want to be able to use attacking powers, like the dark side. This is how you want the game to be. I haven't seen many other people complain that the light side does not have enough offensive attacks. You seem to have decided how you want to play, and want the game system changed accordingly.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i find the light side quite easy to use. its just a simple case of having your absorb and heal keys hotkeyed easily.

i have not trouble at all countering any dark attacks. Fair enough.

Originally posted by Rockstar
its just i like the good guys for some reason in most things. but this isn't a case about ME. i want the light side to appeal more to OTHER people. Again, you are the one that has complained that the dark side has all the cool powers and that the light side is boring. You are the one that thinks that the light side should have offensive attacks. This isn't about other people wanting these changes, this is about you wanting these changes.

Originally posted by Rockstar
they gave the darkside grip and lightning which look very cool, its just the lightside imho (which may not be yours) does not compete with the "coolness" of the darkside because its powers all do pretty much the same thing Your opinion that the light side isn't cool is fine. You are entitled to feel that way. Where I take issue is that you want the game changed to reflect your opinion. This is because I and others feel that the light side powers do not do pretty much the same thing, and that it is fun to play as it is.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i don't see what the harm in a "force reflect" would do if LIGHTNING WAS REWORKED. i said that! the current lightning would not work for it. read my description CAREFULLY... Luc has already explained what the harm is. It would likely cause nobody to use the dark side, because the lightside would have both offensive and defensive powers, and the dark side would only have offensive. This would make the light side inherently more powerful.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i simply said the game should be slowed to give a more 'cool' and 'realisitic' feeling to the game. you don't see jedis running around in circles swinging sabers wilding with one hand and shooting confetti with the other. i was just SUGGESTING something that might hype up the atmosphere so it would feel more starwarsy and less "quake 3 frag festy" .... if you kinda follow?? i do love the frag festivity for guns, but sabers only it might've been a change of pace. I don't see how slowing stuff down makes it more star wars. The lightsaber duels in the movies are fast an furious, with lots of moves and quick counter moves. This is reflected with the fast pace of JO. Slowing it down would make it less like the movies.

And keep in mind, many people play this game because it is a quake 3 frag fest. Raven has to cater to those players as well. Personally, I think they have a good balance between the two.

Originally posted by Rockstar
i just simply want the light side to have more of a definate characteristical feeling, and just suggested some ways... the addition of force blinding and other such powers would also aid this. The game has been designed so that both sides do have a characteristic feeling. The light side is defensive, and the dark side is offensive. Suggestions on how to improve things is great. But I disagree with the suggestions you have given, because I feel that they do not fit into the system in place, and that they would adversely affect the gameplay.


Originally posted by Rockstar
anyways, my 2 cents. catcya:D And your two cents is certainly welcome :) I'm not trying to dump on your ideas, but I do disagree with most of them, and I state why. I'm not trying to make it a personal attack. :)

thats all cool man

Another thing u misinterpreted was the fact that i just wanted the use of !force powers! slowed down. NOT saber combat. the saber engine was by far the greatest enhancement of JO. if you think about it if force powers were slowed down, and the saber combat remained the same, then the battles would be much more saber based.

i have no beef with force powers, however i know for a fact i am not alone when i say that there are many people who wish to keep the force powers but at the same time without them overshaddowing saber combat. this is a long arguement and i simply think that that is a POSSIBLE fix, that is all.

i think the speed of saber fights is great personally. this was just a suggestion to the problem that hundreds complain about

Originally posted by Rockstar
thats all cool man

Another thing u misinterpreted was the fact that i just wanted the use of !force powers! slowed down. NOT saber combat. the saber engine was by far the greatest enhancement of JO. I stand corrected. Sorry about that :D

I think the MOTS system would be great. Maybe not imposed but at least as an option.

Using the argument that the force is equal to both sides and it's a matter of HOW you use them that separates the 2 sides of the force... one could easily pick what one considers to be the best force configuration.

yes i agree with you entirely.

the force isn't distinguished as many think it is "dark jedi shoots, light blocks".

its how you USE it. yoda said "you must never use the force to attack, only defend". this is a statement that imho people have interpreted the wrong way.

lets think hypothetically here. if i had a gun and a murderer ran at me and i shot him, i killed in defense. being the defender does not imply anything pacifistic, simply that you are the subject to an aggresser. we've seen light siders use dark powers and dark siders use light powers (Vader uses protect in Ep 5)

..... so i say GO the MOTS system :cool:

I want to play mots :( I don't have it though. But from what you guys describe, it sounds good. Another vote for MOTS.

hello again

i guess the main thing i feel is wrong with the mp mode atm is the that they achive balance in CERTAIN MODES!. this i think is the incorrect means of doing it. they make each side stronger in different game modes, like light is renoun for sucking in duels, yet is good for CTF.

imho i think that if they achieved balance so both sides were equal in just the duel and FFA and TDM modes, then i think that everything else would fall into place. I think trying to suit all modes really just makes it too hard for the makers.

and example is a TDM or DM, when saber only is on. if you happen to get gripped with guns around its kinda funny pulling out a gun and shooting em (hehehe). but if you get drained, or are just low on force (maybe from healing) then you get gripped, you have no way of fighting back as you don't have enough force for absorb or saber throw, and you remain helpless to be chopped or run out of hp. there is probably a counter to this specific eg, that i probably know about, however one does learn not to get into the situation where you are low on force, just comes with practise. but the eg reflects a one sided advantage. this was just a simple eg that bothered me as a newbie (which was LONG ago before you gob off again prime ;) hehhe jk mate)

and before you say so, yes there are such eg's for the darkside, however, i find them slightly less severe.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but on the issue of light siders never using offensive powers, the whole 'knowledge and defense' deal, doesn't Luke force choke two of Jabba's guards on his way into the palace in Return of the Jedi? If not, he definitely did something that at least seemed like some sort of attack. I could be mistaken.

Originally posted by JediLurker
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but on the issue of light siders never using offensive powers, the whole 'knowledge and defense' deal, doesn't Luke force choke two of Jabba's guards on his way into the palace in Return of the Jedi? If not, he definitely did something that at least seemed like some sort of attack. I could be mistaken.

No offense intended, JediLurker, but have you heard the expression 'RTFM'? Change the M to a T for thread, and then say 'aahhhh!' Then do it ;) There was a lot of discussion of that earlier on. You just need the patience to work through the thread.

Yolkboy - if you don't have MotS - GET IT!!! You can get it off eBay for a few dollars. What, you want my copy? NFW!!! :)

[edit] Here's a link I just found - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3532722875&category=11047) ends Friday afternoon (July 4th). Gets you JK & MotS and TPM game.

Mike

My bad. I overlooked that part, and I did read the thread. Just missed some of it. No need to get worked up about it. Here, have a cookie. :p

Originally posted by JediLurker
My bad. I overlooked that part, and I did read the thread. Just missed some of it. No need to get worked up about it. Here, have a cookie. :p

Not worked up at all. Just that RTFM has been so commonly used in the groups I've dealt with through the years, but I've also people use it like a hammer, and others take it badly, so I wanted to provide some context so you would know I wasn't being irritable (even putting a smiley there). Oops ... didn't work ...

Thanks for the cookie ... urp ... excuse me.

Mike

Originally posted by txa1265
No offense intended, JediLurker, but have you heard the expression 'RTFM'? Change the M to a T for thread, and then say 'aahhhh!' Then do it ;) There was a lot of discussion of that earlier on. You just need the patience to work through the thread.

Yolkboy - if you don't have MotS - GET IT!!! You can get it off eBay for a few dollars. What, you want my copy? NFW!!! :)

Hehe... I guess I have to look around. What does RTFM mean? and RTFT?

Originally posted by yolkboy
Hehe... I guess I have to look around. What does RTFM mean? and RTFT?

Read The ... errm ... Manual

and

Read The ... errm ... Thread.

And, in case you were wondering, NFW is not Northen Fort Worth in Texas, it is No ... errm ... Way.

;)

Mike

but if he missed the first half of the thread he is still entitled to state his opinion.

and yes, i agree with you man, the lightside defensiveness is very twisted, despite evidence of jedi using dark powers...

all i really want is "force reflect", coz i think light jedi using grip and sith using protect in mp is a bit far, but reflect may as well be in there. peeps say only yoda has been seen to use reflect, however, in mp EVERY player who uses lightning can eminate a fan as LARGE AS THE EMPIRORS!!! while we are on the topic of rediculasness, we saw dooku, the APPRENTICE of the sithlord, and a jedi for many years (who is FAAAAR from weak and unknowledgable of the force) used lightning and it was a single stream. it doesn't BOTHER me that in mp all have an Sideous style lightning! im just saying, who cares if it aint 100% movies, its just cool and gives character ;)

Nahs, it doesnt really needs improvment, i like it, and its way better than the dark side which has an "in-complete" ending. If you know what i mean.

Wow, talk about reviving and old thread...

I think that certain powers should be usless against jedi, grip and mind trick namely. It makes no sense that powers used on the "weak and weak-minded" should affect fully trained force users. As for there being an absorb and reflect power I think that should be an expensive thing to have because you are walking the edge between dark and light. Also rage should not make people invinsible and the light side should have a power that boosts their sabering ability. Also I think you should be able to hold down the button on push or pull and have a continuous affect, like dragging someone backward a ways or holding someone against a wall. Just my two cents.

MM..... I dunno... was thinking of a type of freeze force power >.< Or a reflect force power... that would be cool... but I don't know..

Here's an idea. How about if players could pick to be either lightside or darkside, but could still pick powers from the other side at an increased cost?

Just an idea.

To the basics of it, I like using Lightside powers just fine as they are. It does seem like mindtrick still works on lightsiders using Force Absorb, and that does not make any sense, though maybe I'm mistaken and it doesn't work when Force Absorb is being used.

As for grip, well I'm certain that does not work while Force Absorb is in effect, much to the chagrin of many darkside players. Force Absorb seems to be the Great Equalizer of Force Powers, though there are a bunch of ideas well worth considering in this thread.

I've never played MoTS, I'd like to see how Force Powers were handled there. I've got the game now, and plan to play it as soon as I finish DFII:JK. Maybe that'll show me some better ideas.

Ya it would be cool if you could combine light and dark powers, like in single player.

Anyway, i think light and dark are prety balanced, no need for changing that, unless some NEW powers are add =) .................................................. ....... =( jk4