That would be great if people all had the same opinion on the game but they don't. You'll get confliting answers for every issue.

Sides, the game is %60 done, they're too far along to be able to make major changes and still make their release date.

Originally posted by razorace
That would be great if people all had the same opinion on the game but they don't. You'll get confliting answers for every issue.

Sides, the game is %60 done, they're too far along to be able to make major changes and still make their release date.

Of course people will have different opinions. The point is what is right for gameplay. Weak sabers, random flechette fire are a couple examples of what is not right for gameplay. This is why I would research extensively, take into account all the feedback from everyone willing to provide any and give special note to the more reasonable responses.

Isn't determining what's "right" for the gameplay very subjective? I can understand you sending in something that has a group of players group opinion on it (with signatures) but to send something in as claiming it represents a large percentage of the players isn't honest.

Actually, the group with signatures idea is pretty good. If you can come up with a statement that I can agree with, I'll sign it. :)

See the thing is we arent trying to change the gameplay of a gametype we dont enjoy playing. we arent sitting around complaining about how sabers are too powerful and that if i want to use fists i should be able to kill someone that is using a saber against me.


that is specifically what saberists are doing to gametypes outside of sabers only combat. that just is not right. it would be one thing if they actually intended to use weapons other than the saber when playing in an all weapons enabled server but they dont. then they get mad that you are using other weapons enabled by the gametype. whats more than that is that they then go complain to raven and raven listens to them, ignoring the competitive community who did not feel a need to complain about anything until it was too late.


if saberists want to play with sabers thats fine and i encourage them to, since it would keep them and their rpg attitudes out of my gameworld. but on the same token dont try to plunder my gametype simply because you cant compete or are a saber junkie.

well, what i've seen so far is not 1 post in total disagreement with this thread. this is obviously fantastic and Raven NEEDS to see this and realize that if people disagreed with us they would have said something. The competitive community is obviously what will keep teh game going, and encourage future players to buy the game. Hopefully raven will realize that the "saber newbies" are a minority of gamers. So far this has been an excellent discussion. Thank you all for taking the time to post.

I have to agree with most of these guys. The Jedi Knight series is one of my favorites. The integrated force powers and the lightsaber add to the game like no other game has before. However, i find that an unfair emphasis on the light saber is used. I think the saber is a great/fun weapon, but the game is still a First Person Shooter. All i am asking is that you consider us gunners into this next game.

So am I getting a yay or nay for working on a gameplay document? Let me mention that this will be for MP only of course and mostly geared towards gameplay rather things like saber hilt choosing etc... just the 'pure' gaming aspect so to speak.

Although mixed feelings are being sent about wether Raven would even look at this thread what to speak of an entire design document for gameplay - I am completely serious to starting this if everyone (interested in improving the game from Jk2) can read what will be on the document and can (in an orderly fashion, as much as possible :P) voice their opinions on the certain sections, all will be taken into account.

Having said that, I must admit it'd be good (not to mention really helpful and informative) to know what Raven has in store for us in this sequal as well as what they intend to add or not add from our given comments and opinions.

You get a yay from me Legion. \o/ hehe :)

Ok well, how about in team games, ie ctf/tffa/cty, a script that makes different people put together each round instead of team stacking. Plus a max difference of 1 so the game wont lose it's flow.

And yes a better zoom on the disruptor is a good idea. Zoom in/out function as well. It is a bit definitive if you cant zoom out ,after u zoomed in, again ;)

I agree pretty much everything that is said on demo-ing. Watching 650 mb on demos just for a great shot that happens in minute 19.34 seconds is very boring. So plz a forward/rewind/pause/stop button.

Most of the posts are very subjective but it is all in the best interest of the game...so...

Regards,

Oasis

Yeah do it.
I think we are all talking bout MP, i personally didnt play jk2 single version till the end (i am now) cause i started playing the MP one too soon and started enjoying it. I dont mind how the single version would be and i think its pointless to tell them how to do a single version game, i ll play it anyway as long as its different from the other titles

Btw was it possible to change the POV in a already recorded demo with q3 engine? (it was possible with quake 1)

edit: Yes to choose the right gameplay is very subjective, but there are lots of things we can point that were wrong in jk2 that could be changed and make it a lot better. And we are talking bout an fps MP in order to play in ladders. If the game doesnt require any skill at all ppl dont feel like playing it, and game will die fast.
Im not saying that sabers should be removed from the game, but for instance remember an MP CTF game sabers only, its so boring.. ruins the ctf concept of fast teamwork action mod

You also get a Yay from me. Raven should pay attention to the thread and i've seen Chang floating around lately.

who f'n cares about guns in jk, people buy this game for something different, there arnt many games where u can kill each other wich a saber/sword is there? the majority of servers are Saber only if u havnt noticed, thats cos sabers are more fun than standing back and shooting someone hoping to hit them, im not saying guns are bad on MP games, just thay suck in JK. Games like delta force adn the up comming PlanetSide are games where guns are realy good cos they involves skill over a large area, but jk is a small map and the gun abbility gameplay is poor, so sabers rule. That my oppinion anyway, im not saying your wrong.

Thanks for your opinions folks. Firstly, I'd like to wait till more people agree before starting. Secondly, where would you prefer to access the document? In a seperate thread or on a webpage which I can link to from here? I think it seems abit redundant to create a new thread where we have this, yet perhaps not.

Originally posted by SlapNut
who f'n cares about guns in jk, people buy this game for something different, there arnt many games where u can kill each other wich a saber/sword is there? the majority of servers are Saber only if u havnt noticed, thats cos sabers are more fun than standing back and shooting someone hoping to hit them, im not saying guns are bad on MP games, just thay suck in JK. Games like delta force adn the up comming PlanetSide are games where guns are realy good cos they involves skill over a large area, but jk is a small map and the gun abbility gameplay is poor, so sabers rule. That my oppinion anyway, im not saying your wrong.

No, but I'm saying your wrong.

In case you haven't noticed, the whole saber world in jk2 had NO competition. Sure, there were clans, but what did they do? They sat in pubs all day doing "honourable Jedi Combat". Compare the "saber world" of jk2, to q3. Which do you think is more popular?

I think the reason jk2 CTF was so interesting was because of the force powers. Sure, some of them were inbalanced, but it was nice to have something different in there. The saber allowing to block incoming shots was also pretty cool. I know I would not have made alot of caping runs w/o my saber.

Sure, the saber is important in a Star Wars game. But I think these things need to be fixed so that some more of the gunning people from q3, cs ect, would want to come play this game. I myself am a very competitive gamer, and I know I would get bored by repetive saber battles. :eyeraise:

Btw, you get a "yay" from me also :D . I see no harm in doing it.
:sign2:

Originally posted by SlapNut
who f'n cares about guns in jk, people buy this game for something different, there arnt many games where u can kill each other wich a saber/sword is there? the majority of servers are Saber only if u havnt noticed, thats cos sabers are more fun than standing back and shooting someone hoping to hit them, im not saying guns are bad on MP games, just thay suck in JK. Games like delta force adn the up comming PlanetSide are games where guns are realy good cos they involves skill over a large area, but jk is a small map and the gun abbility gameplay is poor, so sabers rule. That my oppinion anyway, im not saying your wrong.

agreed :D

Originally posted by SlapNut
who f'n cares about guns in jk, people buy this game for something different, there arnt many games where u can kill each other wich a saber/sword is there? the majority of servers are Saber only if u havnt noticed, thats cos sabers are more fun than standing back and shooting someone hoping to hit them, im not saying guns are bad on MP games, just thay suck in JK. Games like delta force adn the up comming PlanetSide are games where guns are realy good cos they involves skill over a large area, but jk is a small map and the gun abbility gameplay is poor, so sabers rule. That my oppinion anyway, im not saying your wrong.

haha, you obviously havent figured out how to aim yet

Originally posted by SlapNut
who f'n cares about guns in jk, people buy this game for something different, there arnt many games where u can kill each other wich a saber/sword is there? the majority of servers are Saber only if u havnt noticed, thats cos sabers are more fun than standing back and shooting someone hoping to hit them, im not saying guns are bad on MP games, just thay suck in JK. Games like delta force adn the up comming PlanetSide are games where guns are realy good cos they involves skill over a large area, but jk is a small map and the gun abbility gameplay is poor, so sabers rule. That my oppinion anyway, im not saying your wrong.

HELLO I AM A GUNNER I CAN STILL ENJOY THE GAMEPLAY OFFERED BY SUPER MAGIC ABILITIES KNOWN AS FORCE POWERS

Logan narrowed it down in a sentence.

I understand you like to play sabers and have duels etc. But guns are a totally differen't level then saberists, so please respect that.

Originally posted by Necrosis
agreed :D

Please try expand on that thought.

Originally posted by alarm
haha, you obviously havent figured out how to aim yet

alarm: He had a totally valid opinion and wasn't giving off remarks about how we can't play with sabers. That comment was uncalled for.

Legion my team and I (BF) will help you however we can. I wanna see this game be the best ever and draw on all sorts of crowds. If we talk enough Raven will have no choice but to hear us, and hey, they changed the game once for the worse by listening to the whining saberists why not change it for the better by listening to the people that actually know what they're talking about and spend alot of time around the game?

sure i respect all your oppinions, i just like sabers cos there different and involve more skill (even though i suck) i barly kill anyone but i enjoy whaling it around like an idiot, jk was made for the saber and i like that.

Originally posted by Jedi220
Personally, I highly doubt we can change what Raven is doing this far into the game. I mean, they've got a lot of it down, and may not be able to go back and do some of the things we want.


Yes, but it can't hurt trying. As you can probably tell, the CTF Community has been far less vocal on these forums, just look at the post counts for instance. This is a great thread for getting our opinions expressed, and if that document actually gets created, there's a great chance of making a better game. I'll express my opinions when I have a little more time to post.

go ahead and write that document, but make sure you include a link to this thread (after the flames have been removed naturally), that way there is proof behind your document that a lot of people agree with it.

hey legion,
being the thread starter, *pats himself on the back*, i'll help you create this document if you wish. also i am totally for its creation. its not too late for raven to change the game. we aren't asking for a total graphical overhaul. we are just asking for simple tweaks to the game really. for instance to change the rocket speed, i imagine, is only a few or maybe 1 line of code. and, if raven doesn't realize to change this stuff they will have created a product that a lot of ctfers/tdmers will not play.

Nice one Legion. Me and mine are with you all the way.

Personally though I think that JO tournament-winning players and only JO tournament-winning players should be used as late beta-gameplay-testers by Raven. :D

Or people that got beat by spider al in tournaments...?
:D
I think should try flattening out the glitches early on and beta testers would probably do the game really good.

God what a retard... you really can tell that pG is all made up of 15 year olds. Can someone delete that post and ban him plz? thanks

p.s. just so alot of you guys know we TWLers flame each other ALOT... it's just a joke to us and we never take each other seriously so dont take Logan seriously either cause that's just what he's used to doing. Retry on the other hand... anyways whatever just delete his post

Yes, please get rid of that profanity-filled nonsense, admins. There's far too much fanboyitis creeping into the forums these days.

Originally posted by Aoshi
Legion my team and I (BF) will help you however we can. I wanna see this game be the best ever and draw on all sorts of crowds.

I appreciate this very much, I believe we're aiming for the same goal here.

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
go ahead and write that document, but make sure you include a link to this thread (after the flames have been removed naturally), that way there is proof behind your document that a lot of people agree with it.

I shall start shortly and include a link, or perhaps I should start up a new thread? If I were moderating here *hint hint* I'd have already cleaned up this thread quickly.

Originally posted by pds.silentsoul
hey legion,
being the thread starter, *pats himself on the back*, i'll help you create this document if you wish. also i am totally for its creation. its not too late for raven to change the game. we aren't asking for a total graphical overhaul. we are just asking for simple tweaks to the game really. for instance to change the rocket speed, i imagine, is only a few or maybe 1 line of code. and, if raven doesn't realize to change this stuff they will have created a product that a lot of ctfers/tdmers will not play.

Thanks for the offer, although it'd be easier for me to compile the individual parts of the documents together myself and then post here to adress each issue one by one. Note: I will need everyone's full concentration and seriousness for this to actually work!

Originally posted by [pG]reTrY
*

What does this have to do with the thread? Good job in exposing you don't have any regard for this forum or its policies. Let me just give you a fair warning: This post will no doubt be deleted/edited soon after I get someone in here. Cheers ; )

Just there i went on to a fairly decent saber server (the guns ones kept kicking me, and some clan owned the sab server) to see jsut what the prob was. When i got my game the leader (was on rampage 8-0, it was up to 10) i gave him a run for his money at the beginning but he turned to the problematic tactics. It was the kicking and pulling.
The thing was, he playing fairly and things, competitive but not obsessed. When he started losing he used pull and kick.
What should be done is that you shouldn't be able to get kicked while staring straight at em, I mean the run straight into your saber and kick you, i believe that an easy way to stop this is that if you keep your eye on them it hrts them when they kick you and your sab. This would probably stop the kicking addicts.
Also the Pulling - If i was to stand any chance it was to pull at him too, so i did but what we need is some sort of counter so that they can't spam it - so like if they do it too much chances are that sometimes they miss them and it odesn't pull properly rather everytime, I think that maybe ull should pull to the ground anbd not bring them closer or bring them clsoer but not deck them.

They're just some of my suggestions in that area.

Oh yeh typings bad, i know :)

If you all agree then maybe there could be osame way we could include it in the document that Legion is writing up :)

what matches would those be retry? considering i am undefeated in matchplay. its not like i let some foreigner come on to a server in my country and totally destroy me and any credibility my clan had by losing to his ping and superior skills. no you merely let matt do that to you. losing to his 200 ping in front of your teammates and even begging him to join your european clan. pretty sad you needed someone with 200+ ms to actually improve your team :(

As much as yous like to snap at each other coudl you at least throw some suggestions and keep on topic? :)

in my posts i have completed a layout of the most important things, if i see any actual interest in what is said here by raven then ill prepare an even more in depth list. until then its a waste of time.

Well then you shouldn't really post in the thread. You could pm him :)

logan just come in eruope irc and we make a fair game on ur server not @ euro like i made against meta and blow him up with 222 ping i will do the same with u if u accept

I have no time for this childish quibbling. DSbrLogan and [pG]reTrY - Take the argument to PM's.

Legion are you gonna have a a document and then make it a petition for us to sign? I think that would be the best idea.

Yep, and we could send it to raven with all our names on it and we could also link it in our sigs so any devs browising the board can't miss it.

very good idea. if it turns into a petition i'll try and round up all my old clanmates because i've been have a discussion with them lately about jk3. and all of them said they probably wouldn't play unless the changes i outlined and DSBR outlined specifically were made. so, if this petition style thing happens i can guarentee a few signatures.

If and when it's done, I'll publicise it on the major Euro networks. Here's hoping.

I can't create a petition until a good number of issues/points have been composed and adressed. Things don't happen just overnight, it will take a good day or so to work on this document (that doesn't include discussion time on the boards) so patience will be required.

I shall post up a link later tonight to where the document will be updated, I'll also put in bold quotations the topic at hand needing attention in this thread (if something is mutually agreed upon between all the members then we can move along faster on to the next topic). Or should I create another thread? (I ask this for the last time :P)

Dont create a new thread, it would become confusing I think.

Perhaps on certain subjects you should amke new threads.
And also i think we should round up all our ideas so we can see them clearly.

a *bump* is needed every now and then. this is obviously the most in depth and meaningful thread that has been on here in a very long time. i haven't been a member long but i've read the boards for awhile. and this baby needs to be at the top :D

Yep, Hopefully Raven are taking notice.

I think I'm going to like this game... :D

Originally posted by P4ulo

Btw was it possible to change the POV in a already recorded demo with q3 engine? (it was possible with quake 1)

Yes, just set cg_thirdperson before you start up the demo.

Drdeath: Thank you for adressing the topic at hand! :|

For those who are wondering how the document is/will be coming along; let me just say that I've bought two liters of coke to help me through the night. ; )

Smeh... get the 3 litres of virgin coke, 4 times as much caffeine i believe ;)
And Dr death was only telling us why they're here and what trouble they are..... :/

WOO thanks legion it's great to see that we can get all aspects of varied communities to work together for the betterment of a game. If you need some help or someone to proofread or something just IM me it's in my profile. I'm a college student so i might be of some help anyways just let me know.

Finally, a non-retard post on these forums...

Here's a suggestion; actually beta test the game before you release it?... that usually works. And, when you test, use people that aren't complete idiots. I'm sure bf, dsbr, rise, fk, shock and whoever else would gladly volunteer to promote a decent game. Those clans contained some of the early "innovators," people who knew/know the engine and are quick to find exploits.

I think that when they started JO (JK2) they were making a FPS with sabers. This is what their whole goal should be all along. It should be more focused around guns; that seems to be the community favorite. It should be guns with sabers, not sabers with some guns. I think that the reason people don't like JK2 or just don't play JK2 very much is because the guns weren’t worth getting "leet" with. sure any new-b that has played a FPS before could just pop into the game and blow every one away, but I think what made counter-strike and other FPS games more successful is because it was very competitive, you could become very, very good at the game, and you were rewarded for it, (classic conditioning) people appreciated how much time you spent on it and how hard you worked to become good at the game. In JK3 Raven needs to definitely fix the guns issue. Meaning they need to fix, more ammo, more accuracy, speed it up.
Speeding it up could also help the saber combat and would even help the "saber only" people in this game. Also I think that the reason there are so many "saber only" games out there is because maybe they didn’t make the duel option well enough. I read the article that LEC posted about it, it is suppose to have more Jedi in combat, well maybe they could put in an option for perhaps teamed duels. But one of my main points is definitely speed up the game play. And please limit the use of force pull.