Is there an aspect of this game that you guys WONT complain about?
Force Drain, heal, heavy saber stance, grip, saber throw- sheesh, get a life and learn to play the game.
Ok, I think we've made our point, the overwhelming votes are for NO. Can we get a mod to lock this thread? It's only turning into a flame fest... well more so.
Good Day.
Originally posted by PurplWulf
I don't think raven put in the saber challenge to let people have "fair" fights...
and may the best saberist win.
hope you realize you're contradicting yourself. obviously in that case it's not about the better saberist but who spent more time picking up powerups.
also, let's have a short crash course in game design. if your players have more than one option, make sure no option is better than another option. if they have to decide dont punish them for the decision. what would you say if you could pick a class and one class would be superior? it would be bad design but some would probably just say 'stop whining, play the better class'.
and especially jk2 is interesting to watch. you would expect the more experienced and skillful player ending up 1st, 2nd, 3rd but instead it's people using newb-tactics. why? because a trained monkey can use them and only a skilled player can defend against them. no matter what you say, that's pretty much the definition of 'not balanced'.
btw. is it just me or does it seem that you loose your saber a lot more often in sp? a lot of times i throw it and it just ends up on the floor and you have to pull it to get it back. thats never happening in mp.
Emu is the pork of the future.
omfgz teh stun baton rawr :D
hope you realize you're contradicting yourself. obviously in that case it's not about the better saberist but who spent more time picking up powerups.
not at all, there's only a contradiction when someone else puts their own fatalism into my statements. I was dueling in FFA just yesterday, and had mega shield pickup, full health, and my opponent was only at 100 health, 100 shield, he still kicked my ass, and on my own server to boot where my ping was literally "1" to his 200 ping. he had better moves and better strategy, his timing was excellant, and he beat me 9 out of 10 fights because he was the better saberist.
let's not confuse having an "advantage" with being "invincible"
there's a huge difference. you could give someone with no skills all the advantages and people with true skill will still find a way to beat them.
if you choose to give up the fight just because someone else has an advantage, that's your choice, but there's no point in complaining about it. Some people take that disadvantage and find ways to work around it, and the game is that much better because of those people. They develop new moves, new tactics, and new strategies that eventually improve alot of other people's gaming skills as well.
Sure it's easier to just say, "well that's unbeatable so it should be removed from the game", but not everyone has that mindset, some of us like a challenge, and like to find ways to overcome it.
Some of those ways have already been discussed here and immediately dismissed by the people advocating this banning of the saber throw... the question is why? It obviously works as a good counter, but you CHOOSE not to use it. Is that our fault? or the games flaw??? No, it's your CHOICE.
the purple one
BRAVO Purple 1!
Very Well Said. I commend you for your well thought out reasoning. If more people approached gaming the way you did there would be less cries of "l4mer" and "che4ter".
Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
Perhaps you should just post that as a new thread for everyone to read and maybe we can stop these endless threads on so called lame tactics.
Well obviously the person who doesn't have the shields and bacta tank can still win but the point is it would be better if it was absolutely fair. I don't really mind it that much because I can beat almost anyone in dueling but when you have a bacta tank on your side it can change the tide of the battle.
Too many people refuse to have anything change, hey some things might be for the better so don't bash everyone who brings up balancing issues. I'm just going to take Blizzard Entertainment for example, patches are released for their games quite often to fix not only bugs but balancing issues. Now that JK2 has been out for awhile there may be a few things that can be changed for the better so think about that before you call everyone whiners and complainers. There is no doubt that some of these people are just plain bad and lose to a player who owned them with a certain ability and hench they think its cheap but not always. :lsduel:
Originally posted by PurplWulf
not at all, there's only a contradiction when someone else puts their own fatalism into my statements. I was dueling in FFA just yesterday, and had mega shield pickup, full health, and my opponent was only at 100 health, 100 shield, he still kicked my ass, and on my own server to boot where my ping was literally "1" to his 200 ping. he had better moves and better strategy, his timing was excellant, and he beat me 9 out of 10 fights because he was the better saberist.
yes, he did so because he was a MUCH better saberist. if he would have been just a bit better you would expect that he should still win but if he has to land 50-100% more hits that wont happen. maybe i shouldnt see a duel as a test of skill where both players are on equal ground, but in fact i would even (during the duel) strip both players of their shields and increase health to 100. not only because the 1 hit kill wouldnt be so much better than a regular red swing (you need 3-4 if he's 'maxed out').
the better saberist will only win if it's a fair duel. the more advantages one player has, the bigger the 'skill-difference' has to be for the other player to win.
so it probably just depends on what you want to duels to be.
Territo wrote:
Well obviously the person who doesn't have the shields and bacta tank can still win but the point is it would be better if it was absolutely fair. I don't really mind it that much because I can beat almost anyone in dueling but when you have a bacta tank on your side it can change the tide of the battle.
granted, I don't think a single person here is saying there is no advantage gained by having Bacta available, but that's just like saying, "Bacta should be removed from the game because some people grab it before a duel, or already have it, and it's not fair to me because I don't use bacta at all, I find it cheap"
ok, this person finds it cheap, but they DO have the option to use it, they just choose not to, that's not a balance issue, it's a common sense issue IMO. If you're going to deny yourself the same opportunities that others are using, how can you go around saying it's not fair, when it's your choice?
Too many people refuse to have anything change, hey some things might be for the better so don't bash everyone who brings up balancing issues.
once again, agreed, if there is a legitimate balance issue, it should be addressed and received with open minds, but ultimately it's Raven who'll decide what gets fixed in a game patch. Once the tools are released I'm sure we'll see dozens of mods that are "supposed" balance fixes, but again, I still don't see how you can call someone refusing to take advantage of the items in the game, or the moves that come with the game a "balance" issue. It seems to me that's a choice issue, one that individual made, and then wants to blame others for.
There is no doubt that some of these people are just plain bad and lose to a player who owned them with a certain ability and hench they think its cheap but not always
based on the arguments I've seen here, at least for this particular subject, I'd be inclined to lean towards that being the major factor here. Most people don't seem to have a problem with the saber throw, and rightfully so. Nobody is forced into accepting a challenge from another player, it's another choice that they make. If you find someone that challenges you, or you challenge, that doesn't play in a way that you find enjoyable, simply decline any future challenges they offer, and stay clear of them when possible on the map.
Luck plays a factor in any game, as does Lag, Packet Loss, Computer Speed, Location, Reflexes, Mood, Attitude and countless other variables. The minute you fire up your game you're setting yourself to be at a disadvantage to someone out there who has one or all of those factors in their favor. If you tried to ban everything that gave someone an advantage, there wouldn't be anything left to play.
the purple one
i don't get any of this.
personaly i've only been playing between myself and a friend.
light stance blocks just as well if not better than the others because of the fast recovery (its the stance i use!)
Heavy is easy to get past, ya know, while they swing you can let your saber settle down or take a few slashes in till they finally let the blow go.
as for the petition, i vote flat out no.
mostly due to seeing Zuf's pretty blowouts.
hes now on my troll list of people to ignore.
but also because.. i think force throw, like jump, is a should have.
i don't use it myself to often, but the jedi has the saber, now why shouldn't he be able to use it in more than just a slash attack?
Originally posted by Territo
Well obviously the person who doesn't have the shields and bacta tank can still win but the point is it would be better if it was absolutely fair. I don't really mind it that much because I can beat almost anyone in dueling but when you have a bacta tank on your side it can change the tide of the battle.
Too many people refuse to have anything change, hey some things might be for the better so don't bash everyone who brings up balancing issues. I'm just going to take Blizzard Entertainment for example, patches are released for their games quite often to fix not only bugs but balancing issues. Now that JK2 has been out for awhile there may be a few things that can be changed for the better so think about that before you call everyone whiners and complainers. There is no doubt that some of these people are just plain bad and lose to a player who owned them with a certain ability and hench they think its cheap but not always. :lsduel:
Bacta in duels is a double edged sword, sometimes, when I'm on a server with a few people who are willing to just duel, I'll come out of a duel and will have very little health, only to be challenged and when the fight starts, I'll have to use that to get my health up, because the other guy is starting at 100 (I don't always get to use it before I accept the challenge as some people are trying to hack at us so I accept so I won't be cut down).
I will say, however, that I would be more content on a system to where if two people enter a duel their health is automatically boosted to full with no shields, and at the end of the duel the victor's health and shields are set to what they were before the duel. As it is now, some servers have it set to where after a duel you have full health, others not...I'd like to see a consistent system.
Is there a poll for this question, it'd be interesting to see the result. Saber throwing never bothers me personally, its easy to block (even with light stance) and it's the best tactic for heavy stance users who can't switch to another stance.
if you dont like the thread and consider it whining: DONT ANSWER. Logic continues to elude this forum I see. See, The thing is, when Raven goes looking for **** to put in the patch, if no one but the few people that agreed with this were posting, Raven wouldn't know of the overwhelming majority that is against it. Preserving the game for as long as we can before the whinny *****es get everything nerfed just like every other game.
Originally posted by Bronzefist
Umm,
Keep the saber throws in FFA duels. The main problems with FFA duels right now are not the sabre throws, but the ability to use bacta canisters and stock up on shields before the fight.
Bacta canisters should NOT be allowed during dueling--thats total BS because both duelers should be on equal terms. Extra shields should NOT be allowed during duels either. You could be dueling someone with over 100 shield points while you have none. does that sound fair?
The main reason I use saber throwing is to beat the heavy stance unblockable. I've dueled against people who do NOTHING else but this move and its VERY hard to hit them afterwards because of this moves screwed up hit detection.
I know this discussion isnt about No Force duel servers, but I encourage you guys to try them somtime. Once you run into a heavy unblockable user there is little to nothing you can do to counter him after the unblockable.
Peace,
Bronze
then get your own bacta canisters and shield boosters:eek: WHAT A GOOD IDEA!
anyways, it's not meant to be equal (did anybody say that!?) it's meant to be survival of the fittest, like real life:eek:
...it's good to warm my bones beside the fire... (Pink Floyd)
And what a lot of flames there are. :rolleyes: At least my marsh-mallows have toasted nicely.
While Zufuss may disagree with or not wish to read some of the more positive feedback, and possible strategies, other members seem to have taken to flogging dead horses with flaming brands.
Sorry people, but flaming and insults are not appreciated here. Feel free to disagree with someone else's opinion, and state your reasons...but there's no need to descend to name-calling and flame-baiting. It does no one any favours. If someone is unwilling to shift their POV, then simply refrain from posting any further.
Zufuss...I have to say that I feel you've dug your heels in. Some of the other members offered some constructive feedback and advice in countering the saber throw, but you dismissed their arguments out of hand. If there are existing counter-measures to the move, then it is a simple matter to employ them. If you choose only to fight a certain way, using a particular stance, then I can only say that is your choice. There is an old adage, fight fire with fire...so if someone is exclusively using this tactic, then give them a taste of their own medicine. Also, I would imagine the last thing you want to do is prolong such a battle, and personally I would use any tactics necessary to take that person down. If you have defined your own particular code of combat...well, I'm sorry, but a lot of other players don't recognise honour, etc., and it would be unfair to the majority of players to remove a feature from the game simply because some players choose not to adopt the move, or employ some of the counter-measures.
Secondly, you also stated that you are quite happy to hunt down and score easy kills on saber throwers outside of duels. So what is the problem? If you lose in a duel, you can just get your own back later...
It's sad to see a thread descend into this kind of chaos, and it really leaves me no option but to close it. :cool: