Now with Halloween on the way, there are a lot of families that do not celebrate it for their own reasons. Recently a school in colorado (i'm sure many more than just one) has decided to not have a halloween party, and not allow students to come to school dressed up. Now i'm wondering, is this an issue that people should argue to not have in schools? I'm a christian, yet i still celebrate halloween. I have a party with my family and we get together dress up and just have fun. We don't make it anything more than what we want it to be. Halloween doesn't have to be about death and or ghost and goblins. Personally, i kind of like the scary feeling. Schools don't have to make anything other than kids come dressed up. I've always looked forward to halloween as a kid, and it was always awesome to go to school dressed up. I don't think schools are really into the death and scary part of halloween. Is this something that people should really fight? I think this is just something that people take way out of proportion. If you don't want your kid to dress up, fine. but don't ruin the fun for kids, who really don't know what the fuss is over, and just make it fun. Sorry i'm kind of ranting, it's just that it seems everyone is fighting against anything they don't like. So what do you think?
Personally I think it's the most christian holiday in circulation right now. The entire thing is about giving, being together, and just having a lot of ****ing fun.
We have some people going around saying not to celebrate Halloween, but to instead celebrate Jesus-day or whatever their non-sense is. I mean, it's cool that they think Halloween is evil and they have an alternative, but they don't have to go around to the schools and harass people or go to houses and harass people. It's very similiar to what that one lady did in that episode of King of the Hill. Personally I think do whatever the hell you want, as long as you're having fun and everyone is being safe.
The school could easily cover themselves by saying "it's a distraction issue" which is of course bull****, but whatever.
In the end though I say as long as you aren't harassing me or giving me a bunch of crap, whatever.
I think that it is a good thing, because I can then dress up as a pirateninja and still appear halfway sane. I've got no beef with it.
I don't like Halloween, and never have. I'll not explain my reasons, though as they are personal.
Think of that what you will, that's just the way I am. :D
As for schools trying to stop it, whatever. I highly doubt that it'll be totally excepted by everyone, but those who don't agree will certainly be able to find parties and time for dress up away from school. :p
Heh, how do schools stop you from dressing up? I mean, look at all the goths who really do look like they're dead. :p
I never cease to be amazed at how much sway the christian religion holds in the US... though it does seem to be becoming more and more active and fundamentalist over the last few years. Its as if with Bush and the Neo-coms in power they have the guts to finally try all the things they've been wanting to try for years.
Still, its the kind of small minded stupidity that always seems to crop up, be it with fundamentalists, political correctness or whatever. Rather than worrying about the big issues that acutally cause problems and discrimination, they make a big fuss about the pointless peripheral ones.
I think i've heard the same anti-halloween arguments used in the US for the last few years, but hopefully it won't take hold. THese days you never know.
Its as if some of these people think that little jonnie dressing up as a zombie for one night is going to turn him into a satanist or something?!? Now it seems to me that THEY are the people who seem to have trouble telling fantasy from reality... not little jonnie.
Halloween is no longer a religious festival, it is a cultural tradition... and it has as much to do with evil spirits and satan in most of the participants minds as christmas has to do with jesus...
People need to learn how to relax and have fun. I'm dressing up as a Jedi on halloween, I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean I'm worshipping Satan.
It's just like all the Harry Potter nonesense, some people just NEED something to attack, it's as though they aren't complete if they aren't ruining something for somebody.
Heh, I can live with their attacking Halloween. At least it keeps the creeps' attention off the real issues for a time... Can't really see why festivals have any business in schools in the first place, but that may have something to do with the fact that I'm a bitter, stuffy traditionalist where education is concerned. Can't really see schools banning funny suits either, though. Unless they wanted to inpose rather ridgid dress codes. They could do that, of course but I don't see it happening...
Well there are good reasons for imposing uniforms in schools, infact pretty much every school in the UK has a uniform... but I won't get into that now as thats not really the issue. Even in schools with uniforms Halloween events are common, although the UK has never made as big a deal out of halloween as the US.
(especially over recent years when fears over pedophiles have led many parents to stop their kids tirck-or-treating... but then that has led to more organised school alternatives).
There are numerous reasons that events like Halloween make it into schools..
- it can be used to teach kids about the origins and issues surrounding the event
- it helps make the school a part of the outside community
- its a safer environment for such activities
- it gives a purpose and a theme to schoolwork that can help in motivation
- it can teach people ablout other cultures and religions
- it can provide unity and community/school spirit
- its fun
- why not?
Halloween is a secular and not always religious celebration for many people, at least in the US, just like Christmas. So let people celebrate the secular aspect in the public square, in the schools, anywhere. Let Dick Cheney wear a goblin mask to press conferences if he wants to (the guy can be scary enough as it is sometimes). Go for it, have fun!
And if people want to celebrate the religious aspects of it in their homes, churches, or local community, more power to 'em.
Getting the day off for Halloween would be awesome, but so far it doesn't happen. Have your office Halloween party, and if you don't want to participate, again, your free choice.
The case of Halloween being banned in some school because it was feared it would offend wiccans was hilariously stupid. Nobody actually complained, it was just suspected (by non Wiccans) that this minority would be upset (they weren't). PC idiocy.
Yes, it's the PC advocates and a few fundamentalists who are trying to ruin Halloween. Shame on them...
If people are so upset and worried, just put the Halloween fun into the unit on folktales and culture. No problem!
And on Halloween, we all know the rule... leave your porch light on after dark and you can expect trick 'o' treaters. At least give them SOMETHING (if not edible treats, then some cheap party favors, ice cream coupons or even pocket change will do). Don't put out your pumpkins if you don't celebrate, turn the lights off and no worries.
'Sides, we all know you're not supposed to TP somebody unless they really deserve it (and no, I never did that! shame on the kids who egged people's property, that's crossing the line into vandalism).
A lot of myths abound about Halloween, like that people are ritually murdered on Halloween or that hundreds or thousands of kids are poisoned each year or get razor blades in their food (I think a total of 5 people were killed or seriously injured in the last 50 years as a result of "tainted candy"... not exactly a frightening statistic). There's no epidemic of satanic violence on Halloween. Wiccans don't worship the devil. And fundies hand out religious tracts to kids who come to their doors anyway. I got a chick tract one year (didn't taste very good). Halloween is no big deal! It's no more dangerous than any other holiday, and probably safer than some (like Indepedance Day, how many kids hurt themselves with fireworks or start fires then, pray tell? And yet we don't seek to ban the entire holiday or demand people don't celebrate!)...
Fears about pedophiles on Halloween are unfounded. First off, what kind of an idiot parent let's their little kid go trick o' treating at night alone? If you go with your kid, then you can make sure nothing bad happens. You don't let the kid go inside the house and close the door when you stop to get candy anyway. If anything, the kids can be molested by their teachers at school. Despite the legitimate caution of strangers, most kids are molested by people they know, anyway.
Teach your kids to be respectful of others, practice basic safety (inspect their treats before letting them eat, carry flashlights/glowsticks and make sure they can see out their masks, and travel in groups/with an adult closeby, look both ways before crossing the street, etc). It's really a fun holiday if people just relax and have fun. And if you're worried about your kids getting fan, then don't let them eat their candy all at once. Have them eat dinner before going out so they're not wanting to stuff themselves with sugar.
Even the scary "Devil's Night" stuff (as depicted famously in The Crow) has really declined in recent years, thanks to community action ("Angel's Night" and neighborhood watch to prevent arson and vandalism).
'You're not supposed to Toilet Paper someone unless he really deserves it.'
???
Am I just being slow today, or is this some queer American slang I don't know?
'You're not supposed to Toilet Paper someone unless he really deserves it.'
???
Am I just being slow today, or is this some queer American slang I don't know?
Wow.
Its taking several rolls of toilet paper(you know what THAT is, right?) and 'decorating' someone's house with it.
Worse is egging people's house/car. Those things may stay for days (if the people are out of town or something) and eat right through paint. :P
The other classic is soaping somebody's windows (writing on their windows with soap or just covering them). Which I guess seems pretty harmless, but I never hear about anybody actually doing it.
The other prank is to smash people's pumpkins, which is pretty mean (sorry Billy C!). But I always picture the people who do that to be bored teenagers who think they are "too cool" for halloween, and generally jerks.
Btw, despite my best efforts, it looks like I got some of the facts wrong surrounding the "myths" about Halloween. It's still nothing to worry about, but get the straight story here (
http://www.snopes.com/holidays/halloween/halloween.asp)!)
Am I just being slow today, or is this some queer American slang I don't know?
...why queer, maybe mindless... but definitely not queer.
Anywho, I say if they don't celebrate Halloween, its definitely their decision and it should be respected.
...why queer, maybe mindless... but definitely not queer.
I think he means in the original sense of queer, as in nonsensical/absurd/odd/out-of-the-ordinary/etc.
Anywho, I say if they don't celebrate Halloween, its definitely their decision and it should be respected.
I don't think the issue is that people are forcing others to celebrate halloween.
I have to say that I love Halloween! Even more than Christmas in some ways. But I am addicted to haunting. I am a professional haunter and make a nice chunk of change in the month of October. It may be ironic, but I am a Christian, and if you look at the holiday from the past it is a pagan holiday. But I would have to say that it is now a cultural holiday. People love to get the sh** scared out of them, and they pay me and my crew to do it. I can't believe the banning of Halloween happened first in a Colorado school rather in the south where I live. But I guess historically Halloween is a "religious" holiday. Even if it is not a common religion. And if people want separation of church and state you have to have it from all stand points, not just Christianity. But I am a Christian and I absolutely love Halloween, not as a religious day, but as a "fun" day. Nothing more than that. Some people are so up tight.
Actually halloween as it's been celebrated for a few centuries now, is a Christian holiday. All hallows eve was a holiday to take over the pagan spirit honoring/worshipping day. Kind of like Christmas.
Actually halloween as it's been celebrated for a few centuries now, is a Christian holiday. All hallows eve was a holiday to take over the pagan spirit honoring/worshipping day.
True, but started off as a pagan holiday.
Kind of like Christmas.
No Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus The Christ. Has nothig to do with honoring a saint.
He means it started as some other pagan holiday, then the early church converted it to a Christian one.
He means it started as some other pagan holiday, then the early church converted it to a Christian one.
^
Precisely.
^Precisely.
I agreed with you.
I think that's the issue a lot of the people ranting against Halloween have. They see "it started as a pagan holiday" and read that as "and it's STILL a pagan holiday."
And what's the worst sin possible to these folks? Apostasy. And to them, honoring something pagan = de facto apostasy.
That, or they believe the "blood libel" type rumors that witches or satanists are kidnapping kids or virgins or cats to sacrifice to the devil on halloween night or whatnot.
The "pagan convert fear" thing I think is totally unfounded. It's just a fact that for a large part of the past, "most" of the world (or at least the "civilized world") was "pagan" (in the sense of polytheistic religion). But the fact that pagans did something doesn't mean it can't be done by non-pagans. The fact is if you read in the Bible, in what we Christians call the Old Testament, you have plenty of examples of "pagan" cultures doing similar things to the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. That doesn't mean the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews were hypocritical closet-pagans, it just means they didn't necessarily see those things as in conflict with their religion (and before anyone decides to start a proof texting war with me over this, I'm talking about examples where it is NOT condemned and historical parallels can be seen in textual forms, art, or even admitted in the text itself).
The way I see it, two people can do some activity for different reasons. A pagan does something to honor their gods and a Christian does it to honor their God. If you believe your deity(ies) exist, but the other's does not, then your action is the only one that really matters.
I have no problem with people refusing to celebrate a popular holiday. That's their personal choice and they're free to do that and enjoy it. It's when they try to stop others from practicing it, that's a problem. This may be why some resort to the blood libel type theories.. to try to make it look like it's harming society. If something is DANGEROUS to society, then you can start arguing that it's okay to ban/censor/restrict it, even if it's somebody's religion or it's fun for them.
But when you show that the danger is overstated or even nonexistant, you can defeat that argument.
Okay, I'm just going to say how I feel about Haloween.
Haloween, regardless of it's past, is currently a celebration of the dead returning and causing the living suffering and pain. Unless, of course, the deal is "sweetened" by sugar. As a religious person, I do not believe that is our purpose in the afterlife - to find a just reward for our spirituality, however, is.
I know this was already posted, but it did start off with the pagans. Then, the Christians made their own holiday - Hallow's Eve. Now, the holiday has been turned into a celebration of the dead.
I do not know who is responsible for turning the holiday into what it is now (I didn't read the entire thread, just the highlights of it) but I do know that it is not what it should be. It would be much better if our Haloween was like the first Spanish Dia de la Muerte - The day of the Dead, in which the living honor the souls of the dearly departed. Not like the second day, which is akin to our Haloween.
In summary: We can respect the dead without dressing like our fantasies of the dead.
Now, the holiday has been turned into a celebration of the dead.
And here I thought it was about kids dressing up and going door-to-door in their neighborhoods for candy.
I think the religious read too much into everything. Personally, I'd like to see all the religious nonsense taken out of all holidays. Trim the tree on xmas; hide eggs for the hunt on Easter; dress up as your favorite goblin or superhero on halloween.
The religious people just get in the way. But that is strictly my opinion. Thought I'd share it since everyone else did. :cool:
Fair enough. But I think we don't need to dress up like dead people for that. That's all for now, folks...
I think the religious read too much into everything.
Amen to that.
Fair enough. But I think we don't need to dress up like dead people for that. That's all for now, folks...I dressed up like a Jedi for halloween..Prior to that it was Neo...
I suppose back in my day I did dress up as a skeleton...but overall, the vast majority of my costumes weren't dead...the ONLY thing I remember about halloween as a little kid was how much fun it was to dress up as something cool and get free candy. There was nothing religious or evil about it. Just good ol' fashioned fun.
I dressed up like a Jedi for halloween..
Same here, and same as my friend.
Halloween, regardless of it's past, is currently a celebration of the dead returning and causing the living suffering and pain.
What? I am a Christian along with you( at least I think you are), but I don't see your point. I don't celebrate the dead. I create a haunted house, dress up, and then scare the hell out of the public. And they pay me to do it. To me Halloween is a time of good 'ol fashion fun, as ET Warrior put it, not a reason to celebrate the dead. Tell me where you see people out in a cemetery on Halloween singing and celebrating on Halloween? I see people and there kids going door-to-door dress up and getting candy. Or a teenage couple coming to my haunt and having a great time. Halloween has nothing to do with the dead on any plain. It is just a day to dress up and have fun. There is no since in looking into it any more. Most "religious" people make a big deal out of nothing.
I think the religious read too much into everything. Personally, I'd like to see all the religious nonsense taken out of all holidays. Trim the tree on xmas; hide eggs for the hunt on Easter; dress up as your favorite goblin or superhero on Halloween.
All these holidays are Christian holidays. Just some people added eggs on Easter and such. I don't see how you can take the religion out of a religious holiday.
What? I am a Christian along with you( at least I think you are), but I don't see your point. I don't celebrate the dead. I create a haunted house, dress up, and then scare the hell out of the public. And they pay me to do it. To me Halloween is a time of good 'ol fashion fun, as ET Warrior put it, not a reason to celebrate the dead. Tell me where you see people out in a cemetery on Halloween singing and celebrating on Halloween? I see people and there kids going door-to-door dress up and getting candy. Or a teenage couple coming to my haunt and having a great time. Halloween has nothing to do with the dead on any plain. It is just a day to dress up and have fun. There is no since in looking into it any more. Most "religious" people make a big deal out of nothing.
Fair enough. I don't celebrate, but I don't think the holiday or the people who celebrate it are evil. And yes, I am Christian.
All these holidays are Christian holidays. Just some people added eggs on Easter and such. I don't see how you can take the religion out of a religious holiday.
Two words. Santa... Claus. Before anyone debates me, that is off-topic, so don't debate me on Christmas. But you asked, so I answered. I have no problem with St. Nicholas, but the holiday has turned into a gimme gimme holiday for the most part.
Back on topic... Halloween... you can have fun with. And if you have fun, and nobody gets hurt, that's fine. So long as nobody carries out the tricks, such as TP'ing a house, egging it, etc. :)