Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
Human side is not dictated by how you look. It's how you think and act. ... so what if we made a robot that did everything exactly like a human, think, act, feel. But still looked like a robot, is it human?
Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
More machine than man. Hmph.
socrates himself does tremble at that mighty logic, as Spider AL might say :p
well Shaw as a ghost wasnt machine, since its all symbolic it would seem to indicate he was finally free of being Vader, so i still say it makes no sense for him to present himself as the young man who fell to the dark side rather than the redeemed man
It makes it Artoo-Detoo... he's more human than human *nods*
Speaking of machine/ man it doesen't really make any sense because before Anakin turns to Darth Vader he's part machine already he lost his arm?
It`s an insult to the memory of Sebastian Shaw, GL should be ashamed of himself :mad:
He probably knows alll this and I bet you that he'll put Shaw back in the Star Wars Saga DVD set that will come with all 6 movies. I hate the fact now that once I hit the ghost scene on DVD that I have to switch to the VHS one.
or you all can stop being such whiny babies and make your own dvd set. :)
Honestly, it's not THAT bad that you have to switch from DVD to VHS to see Sebastian Shaw. Good lord.
Although I'd prefer Shaw, it's not life threatening enough to switch between dvd and vhs just to see Shaw as a ghost.
On another note, this is why I like LotR: I know Peter Jackson won't change The Two Towers so that the Uruks shoot first at Helm's Deep instead of the old guy :p
The only thing that matters to me is that there is going to be a third movie. I actually have never seen Sebastian(sp?) Shaw so it doesn't matter to me who plays the role. Must be cool to be in a star wars movie:vadar:
Well, I for one like it. True, the OT is something you fiddle with with very carefully, but it looks very cool to see that version of Anakin in ROTJ. IMO of course.
Originally posted by InsaneSith
or you all can stop being such whiny babies and make your own dvd set. :)
I`m sure your view would change if GL decided to replace the Sir Alec ghost scenes with Ewan.
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
I`m sure your view would change if GL decided to replace the Sir Alec ghost scenes with Ewan.
I'm not gonna cry about it that's for sure XD
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
...but Obi-Wan and Yoda do? And which documentary is this in?
Lucas also refers to this issue briefly during the commentary for ESB, somehere on Dagobah(I cant rememeber exactly)
I am well used to the Hayden Ghost now. It adds to the overall continuity of the 6 films as well....
mtfbwya
Whoa...
*embarrasing moment*
Coming from someone who didn't care about the DVDs... what else did they change? I planned to buy them one day because I thought they only added the deleted scenes (not to mention quality).
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Whoa...
*embarrasing moment*
Coming from someone who didn't care about the DVDs... what else did they change? I planned to buy them one day because I thought they only added the deleted scenes (not to mention quality). Check this thread (
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136494) for an extensive list of changes made to the DVD box set. It's a sticky at the top of the forum.
also check these articles out, they are very complete :
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=8&n=1&k=star+wars&c=28)
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=8&n=1&k=star+wars&c=29)
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=8&n=1&k=star+wars&c=7867673)
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
I`m sure your view would change if GL decided to replace the Sir Alec ghost scenes with Ewan. If he did that I'd just make my own dvd set instead of whining, I'd probably watch both versions though, mine and the one where they replaced Alec.
hmmm...this debate still raging ?? :p I think everyone who has listened to GLs commentaries will know that we just have to wait til May to hear the full story, and then everyone can come back here and whine about how GL is teh suXXrZ for raping your childhood memories :(
Shaw is dead. He dont care no more. Its part of an actors life to know some of their performance can be cut or altered. It happens in film *all the damn time* And Shaw is still in there in the most important bit(the unmasking).... so I dont see the fuss :)
mtfbwya
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
And Shaw is still in there in the most important bit(the unmasking).... so I dont see the fuss :)
mtfbwya
That is of course, until all the actors in the prequels have aged 50 odd years and the OT is remade with Ewan and Hayden. ;)
*opens up a can of worms*
I don't know why, but i'm starting to like Hayden Christensen as Anakin-ghost.
I guess it kinda fits cause' that's what he looked like before he turned to the darkside. :|
So when exactly did he turn to the Dark Side? That's my question...
I feel that it is a tricky question... :xp:
My guess is when he kneeled before Palpatine...
My guess is when he kneeled before Palpatine...Before that.
He made his decision when he was in the Tower looking across to Padme.
Most likely it was in Ep 3 at some point. Thus the Force ghost is accurate in that it appears to be the Ep 3 Anakin...
Yeah, I guess it was just sort of a gradual thing, starting at the tower and ending at the temple. Or after Mustafar, either way. In any case, any trace of doubt faded after Mustafar, sealing in all the hate.
I just think it makes more sense to have the older anakin as he was when Luke saw him. Besides Hayden was a lousy actor. do we really need him in ROTJ?
I think the guy can SMILE convincingly TheExileReturns.
It makes sense having Hayden, they have Yoda as he died, Obi-wan as he died and Anakin as he "Died", as Obi-wan said he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker.
The older man is Darth Vaders body, not Anakins.
I think the guy can SMILE convincingly TheExileReturns.
It makes sense having Hayden, they have Yoda as he died, Obi-wan as he died and Anakin as he "Died", as Obi-wan said he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker.
The older man is Darth Vaders body, not Anakins.
But "Darth Vaders body" returned to the light side right before he died, thus negating that theory. It's a bad, bad change to make and the arguments against definetly carry more weight than for, but unforgivable? Not really.
Eh, it really can work either way. Mostly just relies on what you personally believe.
I think that Vadar returned to Anakin before he died and therefore should be Shaw. However I do agree that perhaps you revert to a younger form and would have no problem with HC if Ewan was plugged in as well.
^^^
Good point (even though fans would freak out if Ewan was put in). BTW, Welcome to the forums!:waive1:
As for having our cake and eating it too, one person (I can't remember where) suggested a compromise.
Show the three Force Ghosts (or Jedi Spirits, whatever you want to call 'em) as they are in ROTJ for the normal duration, and then have them slowly fade into "younger" versions of themselves. Shaw becomes Christiansen, Guiness becomes McGregor and finally ol' Yoda puppet becomes CG Yoda in his prime like we've never seen before... at a spry 100 years of age, or something. ;)
This could show the characters as they were when they REALLY died, all as old men, and their "rejuvination" in the Force to show that age no longer has any meaning for them. Luke smiles, rest of movie continues as before.
That'd be pretty sweet...
I like that idea, that would have been pretty sweet indeed.
Hurrufm! Agreed, great idea.
I doubt the topic about it would get up to 9 pages though. :P
Which would you rather have? ;P
These topics are saving LucasForums!1!!one!
Shaw or LucasForums? :p
Lucas's plan all along, to keep messageboards across the world alive with chat. ;)
Thanks for the welcome. Kurgan that is a great idea. Perhaps we can talk to Lucas and he can make the change when he rereleases them for the 10th time.
Or the 11th....
Actually I think some enterprising fan could do it right now as a "test concept" animation or something. Just use a shot or two of Yoda and Ewan from ROTS. Maybe a better shot of Anakin not doing his "stalker stare"... ;)
Pass it around the 'net and perhaps Lucas will get the message!
Yeah, stalker stare. :D
The "When I figure out how to get into your world again, I'm gonna kill you" look. :p :D ;)
@ Kurgan that (ghosts idea) would be sweet. And it would make (most) everybody happy.
Somebody should do a little "proof of concept" of this seriously...
Anybody got some Adobe Premier skills here? ;)
Whether or not Anakin called himself "Darth Vader" or not at that point is irrelevant. He died as an old man and his soul, which was Anakin Skywalker- became one with the force then. He didn't die in Episode III. To say he died then would be figuratively speaking. George Lucas is way too happy re-editing his old films and re-inventing the wheel each time. Just leave the Shaw ghost in for cryin' out loud...
I did something I never thought in a million years I'd ever do, and I voted Hayden. The reason is this: I have small kids. 4 of them, all 6 or under. My boy's 4. So he gets the movies to an extent, but until I got the OT on dvd, I don't think he fully understood that it was Anakin at the end of Jedi until he saw Hayden. I've watched Jedi with him several times, and until we saw it together on dvd, he'd never commented on that scene. As it is, he said "Look Dad! Anakin's a ghost!" I never really got the message that these movies (PT, to be specific) aren't just made for me, but also for the kids of today until that happened.
Eh, not good enough reason.
If he's 4 he's not old enough to watch it anyway. :D
I was watching Star Wars when I was 4...
Eh, not good enough reason.
Maybe not for you, but for CapN it seems it was good enough. We aren't here to convince you.
If he's 4 he's not old enough to watch it anyway. :D
Care to give us the retarded logic that led you to this conclusion?
Most people that saw Star Wars were 4-5. Star Wars has always been for little kids, what was marvelous about it was it entertained people of all generations.
I don't agree with the "4 year olds understand it better" logic because, well, we just saw Shaw 2 minutes ago and 4 year olds could understand it back in the 80's! Unless the argument for the change is '4 year olds have become stupider' then I totally disagree with that as a good enough reason for the change.
Errr, Sith, you really need to read posts better.
You might notice the :D at the end of the sentence?
I rest my case. ;)
(see, Kurgan, this is more than enough to win an "argument" :D no need to drag it out ;) )
EDIT: Hmm, in case that will also be missunderstood, yes I'm kidding. ;)
I don't agree with the "4 year olds understand it better" logic because, well, we just saw Shaw 2 minutes ago and 4 year olds could understand it back in the 80's! Unless the argument for the change is '4 year olds have become stupider' then I totally disagree with that as a good enough reason for the change.
That's not the argument at all. I'm just saying he knows Anakin as Hayden. He's not stupid, he just likes PT alot, and identifies the character of Anakin as Hayden easier than Shaw, because Shaw was Anakin for five ****ing minutes, tops, and Hayden got a little more than four hours as Anakin. There. I spelled it out for you. I don't ask that you agree with the logic, just that you exercise basic reading and comprehension skills, and maybe realize that we're talking about a ****ing four year old.