Originally posted by HertogJan
Yeah and that makes it strange EPI Obiwan and EPII Anakin already had their own lightsaber :confused: But do we know if they had made their own by that point or if those lightsabers were given to them by their masters?

I didn't think that was known. If so, perhaps the lightsabers they used were not constructed by them.

Originally posted by Prime
But do we know if they had made their own by that point or if those lightsabers were given to them by their masters?

I didn't think that was known. If so, perhaps the lightsabers they used were not constructed by them.

But their lightsabers looked great! Can't be a normal, ordinary Padawan saber :)

Not to mention that Anakin's saber looked incredibly similar to the one he used when he was Darth Vader, and similar to the one that Luke received from Obi-Wan, which was once his, so we can assume that the one he used in Epi.II was made by him as well.

Originally posted by HertogJan
But their lightsabers looked great! Can't be a normal, ordinary Padawan saber Maybe because thay had such great masters ;)

Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt
Not to mention that Anakin's saber looked incredibly similar to the one he used when he was Darth Vader, and similar to the one that Luke received from Obi-Wan, which was once his, so we can assume that the one he used in Epi.II was made by him as well. Just to play Devil's advocate, perhaps Vader's saber looked as it did because of the way his saber was when he was a padawan. Perhaps he liked the design of the saber that was given to him, and he became comfortable with it. Then, when the time came to make his own, he used many elements of the design of his padawan lightsaber in his new one.

Just a thought :)

The tasks needed to become an "offical" Jedi Knight vary from person to person. Confronting your father doesn't make you a Jedi in every case...

I'm kind of disappointed that they only included lightsaber styles already used before in the movies or games, something new would have been cool.

-Sidenote- Darth Maul used sythetic crystals to build his lightstaff
:dsaber:

Originally posted by Prime
Maybe because thay had such great masters ;)

Just to play Devil's advocate, perhaps Vader's saber looked as it did because of the way his saber was when he was a padawan. Perhaps he liked the design of the saber that was given to him, and he became comfortable with it. Then, when the time came to make his own, he used many elements of the design of his padawan lightsaber in his new one.

Just a thought :)

Actually I read that Vader wanted to keep his design simple, but use black to go with the suit to strike fear into his enemies. So thats why his looks simple but still as some attraction to its design.

Wouldn't one be unable to throw a saber staff? I hope so, that would even things up a bit, eh?

I would say there we would be more power and precision in a single saber strike than in an akimbo style saber strike. Also, there would be a greater array of moves, both single and double handed that would be unavailable to the akimbo specialist.

Originally posted by BrodieCadden
Wouldn't one be unable to throw a saber staff? I hope so, that would even things up a bit, eh?

I would say there we would be more power and precision in a single saber strike than in an akimbo style saber strike. Also, there would be a greater array of moves, both single and double handed that would be unavailable to the akimbo specialist.

Yeah saber throw would be pretty much impossible with the lightstaff without slicing yourself :D

First of all,what's akimbo if it's not single or double saber style?

Besides,you don't need to make a lightsaber to be a Jedi Knight.

Originally posted by HertogJan
Yeah saber throw would be pretty much impossible with the lightstaff without slicing yourself :D

Unless you throw it like a propeller. Vertical spin rather than horizontal. ;)

Originally posted by Emon
The tasks needed to become an "offical" Jedi Knight vary from person to person. Confronting your father doesn't make you a Jedi in every case... True. I think it is more along the lines of completing a task successfully on your own. That task is determined by the circumstances of your personal situation.

Well,if anything, just use the Force to control how the saber goes. I mean in Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Substance, you could control a rocket (can't remember if its the stinger or nikita, I think its the nikita) so why not have a choice to control the lightstaff in the same manner. I mean its the Force. You can lift a fully submerged X-wing out of Degobah Swamp., so why not control the saber staff with a flick of the wrist(figuratively speaking)

Originally posted by Andy867
Well,if anything, just use the Force to control how the saber goes. I mean in Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Substance, you could control a rocket (can't remember if its the stinger or nikita, I think its the nikita) so why not have a choice to control the lightstaff in the same manner. I mean its the Force. You can lift a fully submerged X-wing out of Degobah Swamp., so why not control the saber staff with a flick of the wrist(figuratively speaking)

Hey of course you're right, but for gameplay's sake, the sabers should be balanced!! Lightstaff has two blades (double damage ;)) and you can kick freely with the staff (very acrobatic)... it should have disadvantages too!!

Originally posted by HertogJan
Hey of course you're right, but for gameplay's sake, the sabers should be balanced!! Lightstaff has two blades (double damage ;)) and you can kick freely with the staff (very acrobatic)... it should have disadvantages too!!

There I agree - while you could implement lightstaff throw, perhaps by making it a shorter bladed weapon, unable to throw, and lacking a strong single-hit like red stance, it would balance. Of course you need a 'finisher' ...

Mike

Well for balance issues, you could possibly throw the saber, but the damage is reduced, and the saber is made to be shorter to allow it to be thrown, etc.

I fell that throwing the lightsaber should be removed from the game and secondary fire should become Maul-esque kicks. Saber throw should only be included as a separate force power that drains alot of SOMETHING. It's just too damn powerful. Besides, only Vader threw his saber in the movies and in the books it is only used in extreme situations.

Well, isn't having your life at risk an extreme situation? but in all honesty, not everyone is really going to want saber throw once they see the new Force powers available. They will want to allocate more points to the new powers, and not the familiar powers. plus kicking will already be a part of the game with the saber staff. and like I said, the damage of the saber throw could be tuned down, as well as when throw, the saber will lose some of its length to compensate for balance issues .

Saber throw should just have some kind of limiting factor, thats all. I don't know how to inplement a reasonable one, but you just shouldn't be able to clear a level using only saber throw, like in the Nar Shaddaa levels in JO.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the way saber throw has been implemented in JO. I quite like it...and so I'd hate to see yet anothing thing nerfed in JA. If I had to do saber throw 20 times to kill an opponent, it would be utterly ridiculous. In SP, a few saber throws should take an opponent down...in MP, you can already block saber throw anyway.

Originally posted by StormHammer
Personally, I don't have a problem with the way saber throw has been implemented in JO. I quite like it...and so I'd hate to see yet anothing thing nerfed in JA. If I had to do saber throw 20 times to kill an opponent, it would be utterly ridiculous. In SP, a few saber throws should take an opponent down...in MP, you can already block saber throw anyway.

I agree - there were some thoughts about moving it off of 2nd fire ... that I could abide. But it worked in a very 'realistic' way. Your defence would block it, but you'd take some hits. Non-saber wielders it was a 1-hit kill. All as it should be ...

Mike

Yeah, it should kill. But you just shouldn't be able to use it exclusively. I found that it made the game a lot harder if you try not to use it.

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Yeah, it should kill. But you just shouldn't be able to use it exclusively. I found that it made the game a lot harder if you try not to use it.

You can't use it exclusively - you take a force power hit for using it. If you use that you limit yourself in terms of Pull and Speed. And ... if you *do* choose that as your primary attack mode, isn't that just a way of personalizing the game to your own style?

Mike

Originally posted by txa1265
You can't use it exclusively - you take a force power hit for using it. If you use that you limit yourself in terms of Pull and Speed. And ... if you *do* choose that as your primary attack mode, isn't that just a way of personalizing the game to your own style?

Mike

I agree. :thumbsup: Besides, not everyone wants the game to be harder to play. I think it's simply a matter of personal preference, and choices of play-style should not be removed, but expanded.

Yea, I guess so.
Nevertheless, I think that there should be some factor that makes saber throw more rare. It only happens once in the movies and rarely in the books. For me, it just takes away from the elegance of the weapon. Plus, it doesn't slo-mo like the other saber attacks do.

Well, if anything, Raven or some modder can make it so that the Saber throw when used drains all of your force energy. therefor in the heat of battle, people will have to use it rarely especially against another person using a lightsaber. Becuase if you get and your saber throw misses, you won't be able to heal immediately, therefore putting you in a vulnerable position.

In thoeory, I concur.
In practise, though, it would likely be a huge pain in the rear to lose all your force because you hit the wrong key. I'm more interested to know how Vader got his saber back after he tossed it in RoJ. If it took longer to come back, or something that might be better. Just not like it is, I think they took that idea out of RoJ for the Super NES.

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
In thoeory, I concur.
In practise, though, it would likely be a huge pain in the rear to lose all your force because you hit the wrong key. I'm more interested to know how Vader got his saber back after he tossed it in RoJ. If it took longer to come back, or something that might be better. Just not like it is, I think they took that idea out of RoJ for the Super NES.

Yeah, or that you'd have to press your mousebutton to get it to come back, with some delay... Not just keep spinning or something...

BTW, have you ever thought about combos in JA? I'd like to see real combo's, several swings, strikes, kicks and unique moves chained, to be executed by a couple of key presses.

It would be fairly hard to do ofcourse and maybe you should only be able to pull off a combo once in like 2 minutes (to keep things interesting)... More like combo's in Mortal Kombat, but with your lightsaber, you know what I'm saying?

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Yea, I guess so.
Nevertheless, I think that there should be some factor that makes saber throw more rare. It only happens once in the movies and rarely in the books. For me, it just takes away from the elegance of the weapon. Plus, it doesn't slo-mo like the other saber attacks do.

All I can say is ... don't use it. People (not saying you) complain about the patches nerfing this or that, then complain about how Raven needs to rebalance this or that ...

Personally I use it on occasion, but pretty rarely, as I also think it is not an elegant move. But Kyle is one gritty Jedi, and he'll pull a disruptor (banned, no less) or missle launcher out in a pinch, use grip and lightning, so what's a quick-and-dirty saber toss ? ;)

Mike

i would like to see things like this:

staff only becomes available for dark peepz, it is described by lucasarts as an total offensive saber and thus not permitted to jedi.

double lightsaber are permitted to the light side, cuz anakin uses em in ep2

Originally posted by Sagittarius
staff only becomes available for dark peepz, it is described by lucasarts as an total offensive saber and thus not permitted to jedi.At least in the Old Republic. AFAIK, we have no idea how it is viewed in post-ROTJ times.

Originally posted by Prime
At least in the Old Republic. AFAIK, we have no idea how it is viewed in post-ROTJ times.

Yes ... that was before the dark times ... before the Empire ...

Mike

Originally posted by txa1265
Yes ... that was before the dark times ... before the Empire ...

Mike :p

That's another thing! BEFORE THE EMPIRE. Vader wiped out all but one jedi, so I can't understand where all the new padawans are coming from, I mean sure, some of them, like the dude in "Truce at Bakura" had force powers but weren't jedi, but... well I just hope there aren't too many of 'em that's all.

[Admin's Note: Please use the EDIT button to edit messages, and limit double posting. Thank you[/B]

On topic post :D :
I Think we might be forced to take one of the other but reserve the right to use your single blade at anytime you want :)

PS: The edit button give you the ability to add more onto your message btw ;)

Yeah, I know. Sorry.

I think that the new saber styles should have more defense, but should have more specialized offense. For example, your combos should leave you move vulnerable if you miss, or the twin sabers would be better against one enemy and the staff better against multiple baddies.

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
On topic post :D :
I Think we might be forced to take one of the other but reserve the right to use your single blade at anytime you want :)

PS: The edit button give you the ability to add more onto your message btw ;)

Oh I think we won't have to choose between double bladed and dual sabers, but we get to use them both...

Originally posted by HertogJan
Oh I think we won't have to choose between double bladed and dual sabers, but we get to use them both... I suspect this is the way it will be. At least I hope so.

I don't think i see any problems in sp with the sabers... but in mp i may be worried about balace issues, there has to be some disadvantages, i mean with Maul you could jsut tell that he got his robes caught about 25 times.

I think in MP you should only be able to choose between a Dual +single or a Staff + single. Then that'll add to the tactical choices like force powers... we just don't one being overused compared to the other.

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
I think in MP you should only be able to choose between a Dual +single or a Staff + single. Then that'll add to the tactical choices like force powers... we just don't one being overused compared to the other.

I agree with you. In fact, I'd go one further and make it so you can only select one type of saber...single, dual, or the staff in MP. They should ensure they are all properly balanced anyway....

Originally posted by StormHammer
I agree with you. In fact, I'd go one further and make it so you can only select one type of saber...single, dual, or the staff in MP. They should ensure they are all properly balanced anyway....

Isn't 'dual sabers' necessarily a superset of a single saber ... ?

I'm not sure how to deal with it in MP - perhaps you are forced to choose one, two or staff. In SP I'd like to see it limited by carrying capacity. You could have two sabers and a staff ... and no other ranged weapons. Or two sabers and one ranged weapons. And so on.

Mike

Yeah, but what about saber only? They should just PROPERLY balance all the different types.

I think the best way to handle it in multiplayer is to create a seperate criteria in the Force Selection that says something along the lines of "saber proficiency".

You'd have to allot extra force points to use a staff or twin sabers. Pretty simple, and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it seems to be the best solution.

The preview in computer gaming world says you choose between one of the 3 types of saber when you create your character and start the game. Then again they also said the player models poly count in JO was 10,000 polys and would be double that in JKA.

Hey Sean I mentioned that very thing in another thread and I think its the best way to do it. If you are gonna use a staff you will require much more saber combat proficiency and so it will require more points, (same goes for weilding two sabers) and so those points being spent there will leave you with less points to distribute for other force powers that would be just as usefull.

However two sabers would require the most proficiency, your dealing with a weapon in each hand, more independance and accuracy is required. Being able to use push and pull with this stance doesnt seem likely unless you can push and pull with a saber in your hand which seems cool enough.

On the other hand this might not be a good way to balance the game, force powers are one thing but saber combat is pretty much the core and as long as you can kill with your saber, force powers really don't allow you to kill someone as efficiently, the force is more of a jedis assist. Unless of course you resort to continuasly griping and tossing the double saber people off of cliffs. Then again there is gonna be a lot more powers to choose from so who knows.

But remember what Obi-wan said,"The Force controls your actions."
Luke: You mean it controls what I do.
Obi-wan: Yes, but it also obeys your commands.

So, the force does have something to do with it. I mean, in Jedi Outcast, the ability to deflect blasters was control base Saber Force Defense, which some servers had turned off every now and then. So, even the saber obeys the will of the Force.

Couple of things...

-Sidenote- Darth Maul used sythetic crystals to build his lightstaff

According to the Official timeline (SOTE) Luke used synthetic crystals to build his green lightsaber.

A lightstaff would be possible to throw (and in fact, Luke throws one at some Imperial Guardsmen in A New Hope Infinities). Not only in the manner he does it (tosses it straight forward, no spin) but a person could throw it with blades off, and then "ignite" both blades with the force as it gets within range of his enemy, then turn the blades off as it returns again (or have it return to his grip up high or something, without spinning).

I would also like to point out to those complaining about the power of JK2's saber throw in SP, there were many situations against saber wielding enemies, bosses, etc that the saber throw greatly weakened... considering those opponents could KNOCK IT OUT OF FLIGHT and onto the ground, forcing you to run over to it (practically defenseless) and pick it up again. If you didn't cheat, the saber throw was NOT all power-ful, and it was used for certain puzzles.

If you want an example from the official timeline, in Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't his Thrawn trilogy the most respected EU source in existence? probably becuase he was the "first" after GL gave the go ahead to make new material, but I'm getting off track) Luke throws his saber and controls it so it cuts a whole gang of Noghri attacking him, in half. Pretty impressive. ; )


double lightsaber are permitted to the light side, cuz anakin uses em in ep2

As was said above, Boc (the twi'lek), a Dark Jedi, used two lightsabers in Jedi Knight.

Let me start off by saying this is SPECULATION ON MY PART and not official info by any means.

I can forsee a few logical ways to do the lightstaff/dualsabers/single saber thing in MP and keep it balanced....


That is to make it so that everybody who is a Jedi starts with a lone normal saber (despite your blade color or hilt, they behave the same). The Lightstaff is a WEAPON PICKUP (like the st rifle or heavy repeater, etc). Meaning you have to go get it, and if you die, you drop it, etc.

This would easily solve the problem. The double lightsaber could be handled the same way (having a single lightsaber lying on the ground, you pick it up, boom... sabers akimbo). Or they could make it so you have to "steal" a lightsaber from another Jedi (say, after a missed throw, or after you kill him in a duel) to get a second one (similar to how you could get a second Enforcer pistol in Unreal Tournament).

Just some ideas.... it wouldn't be that hard, and they could be made superior to the original saber, without any problem.

I mean nobody complains that an ST rifle is unfair, because it is superior to the Bryar pistol you start with.

Another method they could use, is one similar to what Artifex proposed in ProMod... just have it use up extra Force Points to use a second saber or staff. Thus you have a more powerful melee weapon, but you have fewer points to spend on other things. Whereas people could just stick with a normal saber and have more points to allocate to enhancing their other powers/skills.

They could also make it so that it would be "easy" (however you want to do it) knock the second saber out of their hands or break the staff in two (putting them back to one saber again... this would work with the "pickup" solution), if further nerfing was needed. Though this might unnecessarily complicate things in MP....

And finally, the solution I think would not be so great, but could work, is that the dual saber/staff saber could be a POWERUP (meaning you pick it up, turn it on, and then it wears off after a certain amount of time)... say your new weapon fizzles out or breaks after that time is up, putting you back to your regular saber. Then it could be more powerful, and not use up force points, but still maintain balance.

Originally posted by Kurgan
I would also like to point out to those complaining about the power of JK2's saber throw in SP, there were many situations against saber wielding enemies, bosses, etc that the saber throw greatly weakened... considering those opponents could KNOCK IT OUT OF FLIGHT and onto the ground, forcing you to run over to it (practically defenseless) and pick it up again. If you didn't cheat, the saber throw was NOT all power-ful, and it was used for certain puzzles.I'd be happy if the MP version of the saber throw was similar to SP. At least then it has a bigger drawback, especially as far as spamming is concerned.

Looks like they will have the dual lightsabers and doublesaber combined.... but that still doesn't answer how it will be balanced in MP. I'll look forward to hearing about that...