*shrug* I'm not going to think they're scorchmarks untill Raven tells us that such a feature has been put into the game. And besides, with some places that those "marks" are, the subject should at the very least be rolling over the floor in pain, let alone still be alive >.> I mean come on , that dark fella in the middle of that pic has those "marks" all over his body, he should be in a hospital about now. Not to mention, one scratch one his arm and leg seemed to be enough to put even master Kenobi out of comission in Ep. II @_@ (on a final note, ever seen a saber burn mark glow longer than say... 3 seconds in one of the movies? if there really would be a damage showing system in JA, they should quickly fade into black marks)
It should be easy with their improvements, and it looks like they already have it.
Hopefully the damage and corpses will be perminant this time around. Especially with a ragdoll skelaton and possibly physics system, limp corpses will look good. They won't have to hide the poor clipping and cheesiness of a dead body hovering over a cliff.
After seeing the previus pic by StormHammer I wondered how can stay in feet with so many wounds and I hope it can be turned of like "wallmarks" in JO because I think it will drop the FPS and I already play JO very, very low and with 20-24 FPS (I need a 64mb video card at least)
Originally posted by Master_Payne
After seeing the previus pic by StormHammer I wondered how can stay in feet with so many wounds and I hope it can be turned of like "wallmarks" in JO because I think it will drop the FPS and I already play JO very, very low and with 20-24 FPS (I need a 64mb video card at least)
I don't know. Maybe they're glancing blows, i.e., flesh wounds? Maybe the guy only has 1 hit point left? *shrugs* Anyway, if realistic saber combat is still in there (even as a cheat) it will be academic for me. I'll be turning it on and watching the limbs fly... :D
Only problem, StormHammer, is that using that saber cheat amplifies saber damage by many fold. You're better off with g_dismemberProbabilities 0. JA will probably have something more advanced though.
And yes, I did say zero.
Originally posted by Emon
Only problem, StormHammer, is that using that saber cheat amplifies saber damage by many fold. You're better off with g_dismemberProbabilities 0. JA will probably have something more advanced though.
And yes, I did say zero.
Thanks for the reminder. I remember you posting that before. ;)
Something makes me doubt that they would have put in proper pain textures.
-1-If they use the same system from JKII (likely) the damage would show up in some arbitrary spot like dismember does now
-2- Considering that there was no blood in JKII and that George Lucas is phasing out the gore in his movies, it just seems unlikely to me.
Nevertheless, proper damage graphics would make any SW game far more "true" to the universe.
:duel:
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
-1-If they use the same system from JKII (likely) the damage would show up in some arbitrary spot like dismember does now
-2- Considering that there was no blood in JKII and that George Lucas is phasing out the gore in his movies, it just seems unlikely to me.
1. they've improved the ghoul, and from what we've seen in sof2, damage decals are a reality.
2. phasing out gore? attack of the clones had the most dismemberment. :p
Originally posted by t3rr0r
phasing out gore? attack of the clones had the most dismemberment. :p
Not to mention that spray of blood you can make out when Obi Wan slices Maul in half in episode 1
Yeah, rarely do you see blood with a lightsaber wound. You're cutting through so many veins and arteries it's impossible for the thin cauterization to hold back that pressure.
Then of course there's the inconsistancy in ANH with the blood in the cantina, which fanboys like to explain as "an alien with high blood pressure". :rolleyes:
Oh well, let's just sit back for the moment and wait untill we get some footage of the game in motion(probably during E3), then we'll be able to see what truth there is about damage showing up on opponents and yourself.
Ok, i'll admit I shouldn't have said there was less gore in the new movies. What I meant was that there was a less dark atmosphere. Besides, the constant action in AotC really made it hard to pay attention to stuff like that, for me anyway.
-PS- What's the deal with the Hydralisk in the colosium? Was that just a coincidence?
While it did look a lot like a Hydralisk, the overall design is very different than an actual Hydralisk. I thought the same thing when I watched the film for the first time too. :)
I agree that is is different, but I can't help but think that that was an intentional addition. At one part it shows this angle where the sun is behind the creature and it looks almost EXACTLY like the opening cutscene from broodwar. It's this kind of garbage that turned me off to the new movies in the first place (that and the infamous N*Sync rumor!). But that's just my opinion.
:sweating:
Well, I like the PT. While it does have a lot of weak points, it's given us a lot of Jedi action. :)
That's true. Too bad it had too get mixed up with poor acting, shameful new characters, and a general lack of class. Nevertheless, I'm still going to pay top dollar to see the next one.
-PS-My favorite new character would have to be Kit Fisto. He's so funny!
Kit Fisto is awesome, he looks so cool.
Well, the problems with the PT is a totally different subject. If you want to get into it, start a new thread in the swamp and link us to it from here.
I think a lot of it comes down to where they're putting their efforts into. GL is putting a LOT of work into doing CGI stuff but not enough on production stuff like quality acting and editing.
*coughofftopic*
Anyone remembers how long before the release of JO a moviewas released? I can remember only one movie being released (it started with the imperial march)... I don't think LEC will release a movie a lot earlier than with JO! Maybe some new screens tho...
uh, what are you talking about?
*looks around*
Hmmm...this thread appears to have gone off the rails.
*places thread firmly back on track*
There you go.
Anyone else want to add anything more about pain-skins for JA? :)
I'm still sure those red marks are saber damage. I would assume they will implement the same kind of damage for other weapons. What do you think? Is it saber-only?
Saving Private Ryan had gore too did it not? what did mohaa and bf have?? none
so it does not matter with the movies it matters with the public
Uh, to correct everyone out there, pain skins are not what we're probably seeing in those screenies.
"Pain skins" are where the model skin switches based on the character's health level/damage. Pain skins only show generic damage instead of hit based damage.
Originally posted by razorace
Uh, to correct everyone out there, pain skins are not what we're probably seeing in those screenies.
yeah, people... they're decals!
anyway, if they don't have blaster wounds, i'll be slightly disappointed.
Despite the fact that the majority of games of this genre don't have them?
Raven may have devloped an inchanced version of the SOF2 pain skins. Are they pain skins?
Originally posted by MattJedi
Raven may have devloped an inchanced version of the SOF2 pain skins. Are they pain skins?
Pain skins...decals...I don't care what you call them. Although you're probably right in that they are most likely decals similar to the lightsaber trails you see on walls, floors and what-have-you. As long as they look good in-game and give you a visual idea of how damaged your opponent is, that's all I ask. It would be nice to see these 'decals' implemented in MP as well.
On a somewhat related note: How come the dudes on Jabba's sail barge in ROJ didn't show any signs of damage? They just kind of crumpled over into the lightsaber.
Originally posted by Emon
Yeah, rarely do you see blood with a lightsaber wound. You're cutting through so many veins and arteries it's impossible for the thin cauterization to hold back that pressure.
Then of course there's the inconsistancy in ANH with the blood in the cantina, which fanboys like to explain as "an alien with high blood pressure". :rolleyes:
maybe it was cauterized but it hit the floor in a way that cracked the cauterization and some blood flew out
(at least thats what i tell my non SW loving friends when they try to bitch about the movies :D)
Originally posted by StormHammer
True, it won't make or break the game, but it's nice to have all the same. It would also be nice to see a return of realistic saber damage...i.e., limbs etc., being cut off.
wardz...good to see you posting again. ;) Yeah...you're right, they should look even meaner than they do. It's a pity we're seeing a lot of clone troopers again...I was hoping for more variety in appearance. Also, why do these enemy Jedi always have to be human-like in appearance? If we're able to choose different races to play as a Jedi, shouldn't the enemies be a good mix of races as well?
Well you mean Alien races like Dessann eurgh!
Maybe some savage creatures like in MotS such as the Vornskr (wolf thing), Noghri (ape-like creature who likes bashing things), Dianoga (huge squid things in the water) etc. Heh, I'd love to see a kell dragon too ;)
Back on topic, would it really be necessairy to see the caterized slash if there is dismemberment? Wouldn't the body part just fall off anyway?
Originally posted by Count_D00ku
Well you mean Alien races like Dessann eurgh!
No. :rolleyes: I didn't particularly like the design of Desann.
I mean races that have been seen in the Star Wars movies, like Zabrak, Ithorian, Wookie, Devaronian, Twi'Lek, Mon Calamari, Sullustan, Rodian, Trandoshan...even Yoda's race. If we can have some of these as blaster-toting enemies...why not have some as Dark Jedi as well? Other races use the Force...not just humans.
Originally posted by MuRaSaMuNe
Back on topic, would it really be necessairy to see the caterized slash if there is dismemberment? Wouldn't the body part just fall off anyway?
That's one of the reasons why I think we will only see very limited dismemberment in JA by default, just like we did in JO. I hope they include the cheat codes again.
Again, to go off topic (sorry):
What race is Desann anyway? Is he a barabel? If so, where's his tail?
Dismemberment: Come to think of it, the JO way of doing it was actually pretty accurate, I think. Sometimes they would lose a hand, etc. but if they didn't, there was just a big flash and a smoke cloud (probably smelly) and the guy went down. I have reconsidered and I don't think blood really has a place in this upcoming game, at least not to any great exponent, maybe occasionally a blood spurt (like Maul's in Phanton Menace), but not all the time.
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Dismemberment: Come to think of it, the JO way of doing it was actually pretty accurate, I think. Sometimes they would lose a hand, etc. but if they didn't, there was just a big flash and a smoke cloud (probably smelly) and the guy went down. I have reconsidered and I don't think blood really has a place in this upcoming game, at least not to any great exponent, maybe occasionally a blood spurt (like Maul's in Phanton Menace), but not all the time.
I don't have an issue with blood at all in JA. If they leave it out, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Pain 'decals' are long overdue, and will be a great addition. I would be disappointed if we didn't have the same (or enhanced) control over the level of dismemberment in JA that we had in JO.
I don't know. Since they're basically using the old damage system, you'll end up with a crapload of marks before you die.
I don't recall any visible cut marks in the original trilogy anyway, not even when Vader got smacked in the shoulder. Them weequays on Jabbas barge looked like they'd been punched in the stomach or something, not given a hot energy field in the guts. I've come to the conclusion that damage marks would make the game look goofy.
Oh, and SoF2 had some of the most unprofessional gib effects I've ever seen. The knife marks were nice, but taking of a leg at the hip with a 9mm was a bit excessive.
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Oh, and SoF2 had some of the most unprofessional gib effects I've ever seen. The knife marks were nice, but taking of a leg at the hip with a 9mm was a bit excessive.
how does that make them unprofessional?
Cause they should've known better. 9mm guns don't take of legs!! That's unprofessional; hiring an expert in guns and still not manage to deliver realistic gib effects, even though they claimed that SoF2 was going to be more realistic, with realistic damaging...
BUT!! personally I don't recall shooting of limbs with a 9mm in SoF2, it was much better than the gibs in SoF1!! So it wss just his opinion ;)
To continue with this idea: When Sof1 came out everyone said it was really amazing new technology, but doesn't anyone remember goldeneye? That game had the most death animations I've seen in a game.
I just found Sof2 to have too much emphasis on the gore, and not enough on the actual game design.
I was terribly disappointed when i played Goldeneye :(
So i am not going to even mention anything about that.
I have never seen a leg come off with a 9mm in Sof2... maybe someone's telling fibees.
Yeah the 9mm thing is bull****
The StarWars Universe is not known for the incredible ammounts fo gore IT DOESNT HAVE. :D
I think the only gory scene i saw is when Ben Kenobi slices an arm of that thug in the Mos Eisley cantina.
Blood is only justifiable with non energy weapons/fall damage etc.
Energy weapons burn the flesh cauterizing the wound, so there's a burn mark and no blood spurts out.
No SW game i saw so far had any blood effects from the get-go. I guess George Lucas wants to keep his stuff available to all ages.
Well If the game's damage rates are similar to the latest JO version, dont put any marcs. A character would look like a walking scar and those decals will affect the gameplay if they are excessive leading to frame rate loss and probably higher latency.
On the other hand, If the weapons are deadlier and alot more realistic, then i think it would be cool. The Dismember effects should also be in full by default. SOF2 and alot of other games that have gore effects have parental locks that are disabled by default but can be enabled. So if the game is overall deadlier, a few burnt scars and dismembering should be on by default.
For SP the blaster hits on walls should look cool. On ESB when Boba Fett shoots at Luke when he's peeking at the imperials taking Han Solo, you can see the burnt holes in walls where Fett hit.
Also, JO's saber marcs o nthe walls looked ok at first glance, but one can really notice it becomes a bit goofy overtime... one could really draw stuff. Improved collision would be nice to keep the saber from entering the wall fully maybe? Personally i dont believe someone could move the saber around inside a wall with no resistance...... Not a priority but something they should look into if they want to take that extra step toward visual quality.
Originally posted by BloodRiot
Personally i dont believe someone could move the saber around inside a wall with no resistance......
The problem there is that if you are close to a wall and swing the blade at an opponent...do you really want your blade to slow down and possibly stop because it 'meets resistance'? If so, that would then require everyone to stay out in the open in order to use their lightsabers...and that doesn't sound like much fun. It might be more realistic (Qui-Gon met a certain resistance when he tried to cut that hole in the door the first time in TPM), but in terms of gameplay it would be annoying, IMHO.
I agree that the saber trails on objects could possibly be enhanced. I also agree that enemy characters should not walk around looking like an open wound from head to toe...the combat needs to be properly balanced to ensure this doesn't happen.
OT: As for SOF1 and SOF2...if you don't like the gore, turn it off. Those games actually allow you to do that. And the only handgun you could use to blow off legs was the Silver Talon (aka Desert Eagle .50) in SOF. You could not blow off legs with a handgun in SOF2...only with heavier weapons. My major gripes with SOF2 were the linearity...the way that characters walked in straight lines (turning corners looked aweful in the cut scenes), you couldn't shoot around objects properly - even though your crosshair was clearly on a target beyond the object, you hit the object anyway - sometimes dead enemies would assume ridiculous positions like they were leaning against objects but weren't, and they were too damned accurate with grenades.
Personally i would like dismemberment on by default without it killing them so easily, if they're gonna die then let them get ripped apart....
I had an idea though with the saber.. how about the saber is part of the skeleton (rag doll thing) when they take it out, it would make much more accurate collision detection i think.. midn you , i don't know how easy it owuld be to implement.
Oh, that works. I've already put that in MotF (ghoul2 blade collisions). It's a major improvement but I can't make it as well as what Raven could do with the engine code.
What I think would be interesting to see is the addition of actual saber fight moves. That burn/slash marks appear while fighting then dismemberment as part of a finishing move. That and the ability to truly stab with the lightsaber would be great. So that you can actually either dismember or stab your opponents to finish the combat is what I wish they would be implementing.
The thing that I noticed about the saber trails in SP is that, if you put it in a wall it takes a second to "grow" back to it's original length (I guess this was so you couldn't kill trough walls). So if you stand looking at a wall, then have to kill an enemy, your saber is short when you swing it and it doesn't connect. I read the saber desciption on the SW website (I don't have the technical guide) and it said that the saber expends energy when it enters matter, so it would retain it's shape. It doesn't make sense to me at all. It would be cool if the game just made it so you held your saber different when it's close to a wall, like in the movies.
As for the SOF thing, you're probably right that it wasn't a 9mm. I havn't played that game for a long while, so I'm just going by my faulty memory. Even so, I remember taking off limbs on corpses by tossing knifes at 'em, so I just think it's excessive and to a point unrealistic.
And that point about the all ages thing is 100% true. If the SW games were rated M, some responsible parents (rare) wouldn't let their SW loving kids play them and they would miss out.
Oh and the stabbing: Like in Phantom Menace where Maul kills Jinn? That would be very nice, as opposed to just cutting him in half (like Obi vs. Maul).
I guessi didnt explain it properly.. im not saying the saber should be slower upon entering a wall.. i was reaching for an extreme of having the collision fine tunned so that no arms, legs weapons whatever are able to clip through walls. It was mainly for the clipping issues. Just an extreme i commented, nothing else... believe me i dont want the wall to interfere with game play... that's a realism level that i dont think would be beneficial to the game.
Anyway, my main point was about the scars on characters, i hope that sabers are lethal enough so that any character will die before becoming a walking charred scar.
In the first pic posted in the thread, it almost looks as if the Twi'Lek's head tail had been severed (and the stump "burned" with the traditional JK2 glowing scorch mark).
Damage decals like this might be decals (which could look odd if put on the wrong way) or damage modified skins (which would take more time). It might be a single player only feature, but it could be interesting...
In JK2, you could use console commands or config (and no, not saberrealisticcombat, that was something different... it made the saber do super damage as well) to make dismemberment of arms, legs, hands, heads, and the famous "torso cut in half" effect possible in both SP and MP.
Some german gamers even released a blood patch (nothing too gruesome, but it was more like the movies, and the original E3 demo for JK2). I would expect the same to happen in the PC versions of JA.
It'll probably be there, just toned down with the default settings. ; )