For me, I am kinda screwed (literally), but with my girlfriend still being a virgin, its like there is a second chance for me as well. And the whole thing about condoms. If the woman is on birth control, uses a diaphragm, and the guy uses a condom, then there is less than a 1% chance of getting the woman pregnant, especially if she is on Depo-Provera or the patch-like birth control.

And for me, I am waiting to get with my girl for more when she is ready because for her, it will be her first time, and she is wanting to be sure she is doing it with a guy that will still be there in the end, despite my reassurances that I am not leaving any time soon or in the far seen future. But right now I am needing to wait because she is still in college and I am working for my computer certifications, and even with all the precautions, the last thing I need on my mind is knowing that my girl is pregnant, even though I'd stick around to see it through and be there for my girl and our child.

But its all up to you guys, and whether or not you are willing to take that risk of knocking up the girl and months down the road, things go sour, and the two of you end up breaking it off. Its a choice for each and every one of you.

man if i knocked up my gf you could bet all your money id stick with her. my friend got knocked up and her bf left her. man i was so mad me and some other friends went to his house and beat him up. (he had been hitting her saying it was her fault and threatened to kill her)

Careful now, you're saying times have changed, and the Bible is out-dated and shouldn't be followed. That could be put several ways...like many other things the Bible says not do to and has "changed"

Here's another thing to think about.

The Bible teaches against lust.

People say themselves that they have sex for pleasuer, and not for reproduction. So, wouldn't having sex for plessure be lust?

Strange how soem guys like your friend's b/f actually accuse girls and say its their fault for getting knocked up, seeing as how just like an arguement, it takes two. That's another good point. I don't see why men feel they have to hit women. I remember the last time a guy hit one of my friends... Lets just say the medic centre had trouble keeping the guy from going into traumatic shock. I know, it was of my friend and I to do that, but least it taught the guy eventually to never hit a girl/woman. And he hasn't since. Although, since then he hasn't had a girlfriend to hit either, but he knows not to. All people have to do is point at his crotch and face, and it reminds him real fast.

Love is lust is pleasure. Put sex somewhere in between that, and you'll have my view on this.

InsaneSith, Andy: :disaprove

Originally posted by GonkH8er
The bible teaches us lots of things, like to outcast homosexuals, and various other acts we've deemed 'passи' and we don't do anymore. Who's to say that no sex until marriage won't soon become the same, and we'll forget it.

They teach it in the bible, because, back in 'bible times', they didnt have 'contraception', so therefore, in 'bible times', 'sex' would result in 'pregnancy' most of the time. You only had 'sex' in 'bible times' to make a 'baby'. Sex has changed a lot in 2000 years. Sure, the basic mechanics of it are the same, apart from the occasional use to various other orifices... but the reasons we do it have changed. From my limited knowledge of bible times, I'm pretty sure that teenagers dating didn't sleep with eachother as soon as they felt comfortable about it. They waited til marriage so they could support the child it would produce. Nowadays, we can pretty much make sure it doesn't produce a child, so we're free to enjoy it, and enjoy it we shall, at the right time with the right person, in the right location, weather permitting.

The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong. If God says do not covet your neighbors possessions or wife then don't. The Bible was written not just to read, but to think about and find out what God is really trying to tell us. Many stories are written in riddles and that is to get us thinking so it will have a deeper impact when we know what it means.

What, the guy can still have kids, it will just be very painful with that 3" scar. They say peace can be achieved without war. Well, what would happen if my friend and I didn't intervene. How many other girls would be beaten? Its like that theory that states that there is a man and a peace-wanting man. The man hits the peace-wanting man, but when the peace-wanting man goes to hit the other man, the man stops him and says that their beliefs prevent violence... So the peace-wanting man doesn't hit him, but after so many times, the peace-wanting can only take so much.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
I'm kind of torn. I would really LIKE to wait until I'm married, because of the chances of STD's and pregnancy....but I'm not sure if the opportunity presented itself if I'd be able to stop myself.....damned hormones. ;)

Same here. i think it's wrong, even if you're engaged. I don't want a girlfriend for two reasons.

This and the fact that my sister's life with her boyfriends is a nightmare! I'll wait a couple of years yet, when the girls in my school calm down and mature. I thought they were supposed to mature before guys. Jeez!

I confess I don't know how well condoms prevent pregnancy, but there is two things I know. Latex actually has microscopic holes that vary in size from 1 to 5 microns in diameter. The human immunodeficiency virus (good ol' HIV) is approximately 0.5 microns in diameter. How's that food for thought?

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong.

If you're a christian.....

If you're not, then you won't give a damn what that God thinks...

If you're not, well then you're going to hell anyway.

God can think that all he likes, but I'm not going on something that was written 2000 odd years ago. Times HAVE changed. Technology has changed. Sex has changed. We have contraception. We can have sex without creating a child, if we're safe.


I don't want to sound like a sexaholic or a manwhore. I just think it's silly to limit your life-long sexual experiences to one person.

(Didn't read all the posts, sorry.)

This whole sex before marriage-thing is passй.

One has to think about the reasons why marriage should precede sex:

1) The Bible says so.

--> A whole bunch of the people in the world are not Christians. Yet, this questions is IMHO universal. Why would it be okay to have sex before marriage in Bahrain but not in Monaco? Makes no sense, right? So let's just drop the whole "Teh BIBLE sayeth so"-argument (if you don't want to discuss whether or not The Bible allows sex before marriage, not the issue in general, that is. :) )

Oh crap. I have to go. You will have to wait another hour or so for the fruits of my wisdom. :D

Brb.

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong. If God says do not covet your neighbors possessions or wife then don't. The Bible was written not just to read, but to think about and find out what God is really trying to tell us. Many stories are written in riddles and that is to get us thinking so it will have a deeper impact when we know what it means.

This is circular reasoning and nothing else. You believe in the Bible because it tells you so. That's not rational. I could write a piece of paper that told everyone to believe in Me as God. And it'd be just as true as the Bible.

And may I use this oppurtunity to highlight the fact that women in the example given above are placed side by side with "possessions". Don't you think that's a little bit immoral?

Originally posted by Cjais
This is circular reasoning and nothing else. You believe in the Bible because it tells you so. That's not rational. I could write a piece of paper that told everyone to believe in Me as God. And it'd be just as true as the Bible.

And may I use this oppurtunity to highlight the fact that women in the example given above are placed side by side with "possessions". Don't you think that's a little bit immoral? cjais got ya there. so pardon me while i chuckle.:p

Here's a link for all you guys who are interested in the Bible:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women_list.html)


Circular reasoning is dumb just as Cjais said. (I say I am the coolest and thus I really must be the coolest because I say so.)

Anyways; there used to be good reasons why sex wasn't allowed before marriage (f.ex):

Unwanted pregnancies

---> bastards were practically stoned to death. Nowadays it is not so. A whole lot of children are born before their parents are married and just about everyone (except very conservative religious narrow-minded people) see nothing wrong with that.

And why would there be anything wrong with it? Mommy and Daddy loves each other and wanted to have a child. What's the problem? The Bible again? Oh please! :mad:

So what if the couple is stranded on a desert island? Can't they ever have children because there isn't a priest around? Will they face Gods wrath if they do?

What if a couple gets married (and has sex) but due to technicalities the law of the state where they live in won't accept the marriage as valid (perhaps the priest had just been fired the day before or something) ?

Does the Bible say all gay people should be slaughtered because they are an abomination to god? I believe so. Does the Bible oppose the very basis of gender equality? Sure does.

Take this for example: "When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do"

WTF is that?

So you say that I must sacrifice some random woman (or my wife, perhaps?) if I happen to sin? I just coveted Jessica Alba in the thread in the swamp.. damn... I guess I must cut my wife's throat when she gets home then. Too bad, huh? Oh well, her parent's will surely understand, 'cause I'm only following the will of God.

Really, even thinking about the stuff that the Bible ORDERS us to do makes me sick. And I'm not kidding, either. Writing the paragraph above made me feel physically sick and now I'm pissed off too. :mad:

(Some of you probably also noted that a male GOAT is way more precious than a woman)

I don't *ever* want to see the God/Bible-argument again if it is not a topic that concerns the Bible itself!

Use the Bible to back up things like "people should be nice to each other", but leave more detailed questions alone.

The message of the Bible could be fit into one single page, and personally I would prefer that.
Go ahead and follow the Bibles most general guidelines, but try to understand that otherwise

...brace yourselves...


the book is passй

Originally posted by Luc Solar
Here's a link for all you guys who are interested in the Bible:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women_list.html)

[snip]

No need to quote his entire post for this - C'jais

i think i like you. welcome to my not an enemy list. :) oh and well said. i think its stupid that a goat was(could still be) held higher than a woman.

Originally posted by InsaneSith
i think i like you. welcome to my not an enemy list. :) oh and well said. i think its stupid that a goat was(could still be) held higher than a woman.

Oh cool! So does this mean I get to be in your sig with the asian women and microwavable pizza? j/k ;)

I have a thing for asian women too, but I'm not that crazy about pizza or anime...sorry dude :p

its ok cant have everything i guess.

:::::walks into thread pregnant and engaged::::

Hum....what do you think my opinion on this subject is?

Do ya care? Oh well I'm going to give it anyway. Since...hum. Dunno. I'm tired right now so I'll just rant!

Sex before marriage should be a mutual thing. It is a big step and I feel that you should only do it in a loving relationship. That way if you do end up pregnant or your girlfriend you two will be able to handle the consequences of sex. Whether that be having to decide on an abortion, keeping the child or giving the child up for adoption. Also, STD's. I think that the people having sex should be responsible - make sure your partner doesn't have AIDS or STD's. And also what I mean by mutual thing - is that you both come to an understanding that you do not want to wait, it bothers neither one of you, you understand it can change the relationship significantly and that you are doing it with someone you trust. That's why I think it should only be done in a loving relationship.

To me - marriage is more than a piece of paper. If you are religious then it means that you and your significant other make a promise to god. Along the lines of faithfulness and pledge your lives to one another. It is a much more significant thing to me to get married rather than having sex. Sex is more about responsibilty etc. I think that's why god didn't want us to have sex outside of marriage. etc. etc.

If you are planning on waiting. Good for you! You have a lot more determination than I did. For those of you who did not or will not then my advice to you is to always be careful and remember that it comes with much more responsibilty than you first realise, so make sure its someone you care about.

Thats my two cents.

Well, I'm 13,, so I;m obiosuly a virgin.... unless....

lol. Anyway. What do you guys think if your engaged. Would it be OK to have sex than? Or still wait?

Originally posted by ZBomber
Well, I'm 13,, so I;m obiosuly a virgin.... unless....

lol. Anyway. What do you guys think if your engaged. Would it be OK to have sex than? Or still wait? i think its ok since you're marrying them.

Engaged doesn't mean you will be marrying them. I know several people that were engaged, and their relationship went all kablooie.

i feel chastity is important but if you really love the person and arnt drunk i say its ok marrige is good but if your obviously commited and wouldnt hurt eachother its fine, people say ohh its a sin but isnt god supposed to want love, and forgive its not big, now also the pron=blem of aids and other things are about so obviously be safe and really know ur partner.

I believe that standing up to temptation does not make you a stronger man. All it does is keep a corner of your mind occupied with whatever you're trying to abstain against. Giving into your temptation will make you a stronger person I argue. Adam Smith said that society as a whole benifits when it's members are trying solely to benifit themselves. He said this in an economic context, but it's easily adaptible to social situations.

What would be a more productive society? A group of sexually frustrated folks who spend 1/2 their time not giving into temptation, or a group that (ideally) does what they want within moderation. It's the former situation that leads to all the priest sex abuse scandals. Sex is human nature. It was designed to be pleasurable to make us want to reproduce. But nowadays we have ways to prevent pregnancy. It's all of the good with a negligable amount of bad, provided you follow the right methods.

We're all utilitarians at heart, so follow the saying: "if it feels good, do it."

Gonk: marriage will still be around in 100 years for this one reason: wedding gifts. :D But yeah. I know quite a few people who rushed into marriage because they were abstaining their whole lives. After these people finally had sex they realized they were incompatible and ended up separated and angry. Before you get married you should know everything about your partner.

I deleted the double post, hope it's cool. Good point, too - C'jais

if we want to do it then we can no one can stop me from doing and if we decided we want to then we can if we want but if it just happened it still is ok but if some people want to wait then they can but not me i'm not going to wait because i might not ever get married and that would really suck

@NerfYoda

Perhaps I should rephrase what I said earlier.


"Resisting temptation will make you stronger"

Changed to

"Resisting temptation will make you a stronger christian"

The Bible says that if you look at a woman to lust after her, then you are an adulterer at heart. When I talk to a female, I try to keep my eyes on her eyes, and not let the wander off :p

If you do practice the Bible, good for you. If not, I wish you did, but more power to you anyway.

me + my gf decieded if we want to do that or not but i used the bible but not as often as i should

Originally posted by NerfYoda
Adam Smith said that society as a whole benifits when it's members are trying solely to benifit themselves. He said this in an economic context, but it's easily adaptible to social situations.

I disagree because take a look at Enron... the owners were trying solely to benefit themselves and look what it did to the economy. Enron is what started the downslide of the US economy. I believe that Adam Smith was right in some cases, but very wrong in others.

I don't think people should have sex before marriage because it might lead to a child. then if you descide you don't really like the person you're sleeping with, there's another single parent out there and another child without a steady mother or father. But you should really get to know the person you're going to marry and not jump into it too soon. and don't get married just to have sex:p

I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. If two people love eachother, sex is an additional and greater way of showing those feelings. There are contraceptives available to prevent any "accidents." Use your head people if you're going to enguage in sexual acts.

Nothing wrong with a little scrogging.

Quick comparision:
A person who denies their hunger and refuses to eat because they believe they are fat, when in fact they are under wieght, is said to have anorexia nervosa. They believe one thing, which to them, and others with the same affliction, appears true, while everyone else who sees them knows this belief to be false.

A person who denies their libido and refuses to have sex until they are married, because they believe this will defile their bodies, is said to be a christian. They believe one thing, which to them, and others with the same affliction, appears true, while everyone else who sees them knows this belief to be false.


What STD's are there that will really ruin your day? HIV has a great chance to screw you up, and it's hard to stop it once you got it, but what else? Genital warts, HPV, has a chance to damage the female reproductive system. That's about all I can think of. Everything else is treatable. Now, granted, if left untreated they can cause irreperable harm or death, but so won't any serious wound that's left untreated. If you get the drippy dick or the inferno piss and don't see a doctor for some penicillin, that's your own fault.


Am I the only one who noticed this?Originally posted by Luc Solar
Take this for example: "When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do" Dude, the passage refers to a FEMALE GOAT! It's all in context, you are the one who assumed that the word "female" meant "female human", when clearly it refered to a goat. You went on for a few paragraphs about this woman thing. I'd like to say that it's similiar to a Freudian slip, but it's more likely you seeing what you wanted to see.

Oh, and finally, the only people who use the bible in a discussion that doesn't directly relate to the bible are zealots and children. Children taught by zealots. So please, leave the bible out of it, having to argue against "Cause it's in the Bible!" makes any discussion lose it's appeal. Maybe we'd like to see what you think, not what the bible thinks. Jesus doesn't post to this board, so nobody cares what he would do.