Is the Republic a newer, better version of the Rebels? Both civs have the exact same specialties- air, troops, and jedi. Now, the Republic clearly edges out the Rebels in troops and jedi, so the only case that can be made for the Rebels is in air units. But the Republic has an invisible starfighter on its side! So I repeat, is the Republic a newer, better version of the Rebels?
P.S. why do Republic jedi have sith pictures under them?
I don't think so. The Rebels still have better air. I beat a Republic guy last night. I had superior air forces, mechs, hvy wepongs, supporting about 8 air cruisers. Yeah, he could produce a lot of troops but my air cruisers toasted about 20 at a time. Rebels and Naboo are all starting to catch on. If you can protect your air cruisers your opponent watches helplessly as he gets chewed apart.
Rebels troopers are still better quality though. Republic just produces troopers faster. The key is to produce a ton of strike mechs to counter the mass troops.
The Rebels have better air by virtue of the fact that that they have one more air unit. Upgrades for fighters and bombers are the same on both sides (note that the Republic does get Armoured Platework, despite what the foldout says), and the Republic forces get better air cruisers.
Polaris, it's good that you won last night, but your building a better air force doesn't make the Rebel air intrinsically better. The A-wing has been very widely maligned for its massive fragility and all-round uselessness; the Jedi Starfighter has been similarly dissed for its narrow application as a dedicated reconaissance unit. Really, Rebel Air is only better because of the speeder... which is an extremely useful unit to have around.
I think the ground is where the Rebels suffer, though the difference is somewhat marginal. They lack a heavy strike mech, but gain an assault mech. This leaves you balancing faster-firing troopers against more resilient ones. Of course, the Republic can back their flimsier troopers with much beefier medics. And Republic Jedi are better, as well, plus their Temples cost less. Then you need to weigh faster Holocron nova production and Nursery food of the Republic against the Rebels' better farming.
In a lot of ways, Republic does play like a slightly upgraded version of the Alliance, which I think is what probably accounts for the latters's drop in popularity. I do still like those Air Speeders a lot though...
P.S. It is all but impossible to protect Air Cruisers against a determined opponent, especially one with AA retrofit. Their attack against ground units, apart from troopers, is not as damaging as many seem to think, and that loooong reload time is a total killer. You need to be very careful about supporting them with ground units because they have no minimum range at all and can easily be tricked into firing on your support army. They are not superweapons by any means.
I still think that the Republic's troopers are better. When you can send in twice as many troopers into battle as the Rebels, I think it is you that has the upper hand. All the rebels' troopers get is a hp boost, but the Republic gets hvy strike mechs to counter that. The Rebels have to get reg. strike mechs to counter twice as many Republic troopers.. and winner is... the Republic (in terms of strike mechs and troopers only)!
As for the A-wing, even with shields, its only has as much hp as a tie fighter without shields. So this does limit its viability, but it has longer range than a fighter, great speed and fire rate, and absolutely owns workers and troopers. It not totally useless. The killer is you need to research just to make it available... I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to overlook it alot.
If only the Jedi starfighter had a better fire rate... then it would be a good offensive unit. I mean, it cost so much for a fighter... its nice that it can become invisible but I think it should be able to convert units (with no range, like masters converting buildings), and only units, not buildings.
But you guys are right, the Rebels do still own the skies.
P.S. between the rebel farming bonus (almost non-existent) and Republic animal nursery tech, the Republic wins again ;)
Surely the Naboo own the skies with their upgraded engines, faster build rate, and faster nova mining.
I don't think the Rebels are a worth while civ anymore. Republics troops are better once they get the cloning tech and sight beyond sight tech. There is nothing between the air as I havn't found a use for the weak a-wings yet, and the Republic receive all the upgrades the Rebels do.
What I want to know is why every civ that has shielded air also seems to have armoured air (I can't remember if Wookie air gets armour.) Seems to me that if they want to spread the difference in air bit that they should use these two techs better. Maybe they could get armoured air to some of the lesser air powers. For example, the TF could get armoured air, which would give them an air advantage over the gungans (the way it should be). Confed might get armoured air too. Some ships might have shields but not armour while the best air civs would have both. If they want to break it down further, they could give certain civs light armour (+2 instead of +4) which would allow:
no protection, light armour, armour, shields, light armour w/ shields, and armour w/ shields...
Kryllith
I don't think the Rebels are a worth while civ anymore. Republics troops are better once they get the cloning tech and sight beyond sight tech
I completly agree.
Hmmm.... don't forget the Air Speeder. The Rebels have an ability unmatched by any in the game to get a carefully tailored troubleshooting force to any hotspot and deal with it... unless the bad guys bring along AA mobiles. Bring on the Tauntauns.
Seriously, the Air Speeder is very useful. No other air unit will seriously dent a large group of attacking mechs; the bomber is too slow, and fighters don't do enough damage to get through the armour.
Who knows, perhaps the A-Wing will one day show its worth and I will be eating my words along with all the others as the terror of the A-wing rush sweeps the Zone. Or possibly not.
Rebels get heavy assault mechs, too. Though not Technicians or Advanced Redesign. Don't see all that many assault mechs around either, to be honest. Oh well.
The Republic does have a considerable economic advantage, which makes them very attractive. And I must confess that I've not felt all that tempted by the Rebels since I got the Xpack. However, the difference isn't all that glaring, I don't think. Remember that the Republic does have a certain novelty value right now as well. People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...
Reasons to pick the Republic over Rebels;
1.Holocron bonus is a great help. If you manage to get three or four of them then your nova hoardes race up.
2.The Republic get the very important mech destroyer upgrade, whilst the Rebels get the assault mech upgrade. Assault mechs are rarely used in online gaming due to the cost.
3.Republic troops are a more potent force.
4.Nurseries receive more upgrades.
5.Rebels eco bonus on farming is hardly noticable.
6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.
7.Republic Jedi are cheaper and get more upgrades.
I hate the Republic. Hail to Count Dooku!
Originally posted by duder
2.The Republic get the very important mech destroyer upgrade, whilst the Rebels get the assault mech upgrade. Assault mechs are rarely used in online gaming due to the cost.
5.Rebels eco bonus on farming is hardly noticable.
6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.
7.Republic Jedi are cheaper and get more upgrades. [/B]
My thoughts
2. I'm pretty sure that the Rebels do get hvy mech destroyers, but I know that they don't get hvy strikes.
5. I absolutely agree, only +1 carrying capacity on farm... thats weak.
6. Now that what I thought
7.Republic Jedi aren't cheaper, though it would seem that way thanks to the holocron bonus. Their Jedi temples are cheaper.
Also, the Rebels' fortress bonus isn't that great.
Ooopps the temple is cheaper not the Jedi. But they do recieve more upgrades.
It should have been the strike mech that I mentioned not the destroyer.
A fair amount of people dis the A-wings, but I have found them to be quite effective as AA troop destroyers (in addition to regular troops and workers). Their heightened speed and extended range helps them evade missiles better, which is important when guided missiles come into play (this also plays a factor in using them against fighters). In addition, their extend range gives them a bit more play for slaughtering workers outside the range of missile turrents.
Kryllith
Rebel bonuses come in area's where they don't impact gameplay.
Think about it.
For instance; fortress bonus; how many fortresses does one make in a 1 on 1 game online ? Hmmm ?
I can guarantee you it's 3 or 4 max.
So that can't really make the difference, as can the other bonusses.
Now BUILDING SPEED and such things, THOSE are the true advantages. Alas, the Republic has the edge.
to the 2 guy who posted..sounded like you played a bad person: )thats why you got away wit being able to build so much in the first place... key have your enemy on the run
Originally posted by D'Blee
People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...
I don't know, hearing "For the Rebellion!" every 5 seconds is annoying as well... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by D'Blee
The Republic does have a considerable economic advantage, which makes them very attractive. And I must confess that I've not felt all that tempted by the Rebels since I got the Xpack. However, the difference isn't all that glaring, I don't think. Remember that the Republic does have a certain novelty value right now as well. People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...
I think that there is an attraction to the Republic, but it is more than just novelty. They are one of the best (if not the best) civ in the game.
Now for the Rebels, can anyone tell me the what the attraction for them is now? I fail to see any reason to choose them rather than the Republic. I think that the air speeder and hvy mech destroyer of the Rebels is a bit redundant (they should have had hvy strikes instead). Besides the cosmetic difference, why pick the rebels?
OK, I admit it, the Republic rules the Rebels. But the Rebels still have an airspeeder, which kicks ass.
only +1 carrying capacity on farm... thats weak.
Ah, yes, but remember that post X-pack the Rebels even get the team bonus (even if you're playing alone) of increased farm food. Which can make a difference, especially on a low food map. This is the Rebels' important economic advantage.
Rebels, Naboo, and Republic all get cheaper Jedi, I believe - compared with the Empuire. The Republic also get cheaper temples. Naboo and Republic both get increased Holocron trickle.
6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.
This is like saying "apart from repeaters and Dark Troopers and a couple of the upgrades, Empire and Naboo have the same strength infantry." :) The Airspeeder is extremely useful, as others have said. Still trying to decide about the A-wing. The Jedi Starfighter, on the other hand, has incredibly limited usefulness, much of which evaporates if your opponent plops sentry towers around the map - as I tend to. Were it not for that horrid delay before firing, they might have more of a use in hit and fade, but the time they spend uncloaked while the pilot searches for the trigger or whatever he's doing is frequently a killer. Kryllith, interesting post about the A-wing. I'll try and give it some more time...
In any case, Rebel air is markedly superior to Republic - in a one-on-one dogfight their primary air-to-air units, Advanced Fighters, would of course go to a draw, but in the more general field the Rebels come off better.
Completely off-topic and apropos of nothing, but is anyone else upset that the mighty Republic Gunship is reduced to the status of a fast fighter? Look at the guns on that puppy! They should all fire five times each and drop a bunch of little Yodas on the enemy and then do cool stuff and have ball turrets and strafe stuff and... anyway.
I completely agree, which is why im going to create a topic on the subject.
They both good civs (i like the rebels better though)
Rebels own the air with their airspeeder and a-wing(long range quick and deadly makes it good at killing anything that cant fire back)
The jedi starfighter takes out air cruisers really quickly (almost 4x as fast as fighters) but both awings and airspeeders kill them at almost that rate (due to the slow fire of starfighters)
Republic have by far the better jedi, easily surpassing both the naboo and the rebels
In troops, its a matter of opinion. Republic pumps them out faster but not at cheaper cost. There are some people on MFO that say that this upgrade is pointless because it only works for laser troops and can be easily replicated by building another troop center. The rebels on the other hand have an ok bonus to their troops hps and it affects all troops and they can easily beat republic troops at even #'s
They both have equally bad mechs and ships and the republic has slightly better heavies (rebels dont get heavy engineers)
Their both good but i thought that the rebels were being disenfranchised on this thread.
Jedi Starfighters are excellent. Homing projectiles, Jedi abilities, all in one. Clone Troops are easy to make in numbers because of the upgrade. For every Rebel Trooper created, 2 or 3 Clone Troops can be made. This gives them a huge advantage but one sole weakness is what they have: Air Cruisers. Those can wipe troops out in 1 blast. The A-Wing is a good fighter because of it's speed, but the Jedi Starfighter can kill it when it's cloaked. The Republic Jedi are the best, no arguement there. As for mechs, the Republic gains another advantage because of the fact that they can build troops by the millions as well as wipe out other troops with ease. The Rebels have good air-ground thing, but I still prefer the Jedi Starfighter.
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
In troops, its a matter of opinion. Republic pumps them out faster but not at cheaper cost. There are some people on MFO that say that this upgrade is pointless because it only works for laser troops and can be easily replicated by building another troop center. The rebels on the other hand have an ok bonus to their troops hps and it affects all troops and they can easily beat republic troops at even #'s
They both have equally bad mechs and ships and the republic has slightly better heavies (rebels dont get heavy engineers)
Their both good but i thought that the rebels were being disenfranchised on this thread.
The Republic upgrade, Kaminoan Cloners, makes republic troopers come out 50% faster (Oh and by the way, the upgrade also improves their rate of fire to help tear through the extra hp of rebel troopers). So if the Rebels want to produce as many troopers as the Republic, they will need twice as many troop centers to do so. So maybe the Rebels' troops win at even #'s, but even #'s is difficult to achieve.
And the Republic wins the mech battle too. The Rebels don't get the "hvy plating" upgrade (the last defensive mech upgrade) but the republic does. Personally, I prefer hvy strikes and destroyers to hvy destroyers and assaults, but thats just me (or is it?).
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Rebels (used to be my fav along with the Wooks), but I'm just dishing out the cold, hard facts -- the Republic has all but overshadowed the Rebels... I think that's ashame too :( .
P.S. don't you need a team to have a team bonus??
J-5; no, you don't need a team to have a team bonus, even though it clearly states in the manual that this is in fact the case. Probably the easiest way to test this is to play as Gungans in a post-T4 game and look at the price of a shield generator/shipyard. Which I did - and they benefit from their cheaper generator even in a 1 on 1.
Natopo, I'm sorry, but "excellent" is rather a strong term to use re: the Jedi Starfighter. They benefit from two Jedi abilities - Sight Beyond Sight and Mind Trick. This does make them effective spying units to a degree - although not against an opponent who likes his/her sentry towers.
The homing torpedo seems largely cosmetic; aircraft accuracy is rarely a problem because of their speed. And the Starfighter loses badly to other fighters because to attack it must decloak, wait, and fire - then wait again. That initial wait time is what scuppers it. Send five Starfighters against five X-wings, and one, perhaps two of the Jedi craft will be smoke before any of them can fire. Plus they cost more than twice as much nova as fighters. They really are not combat craft. They can be good for reconaissance - though once you add Mind Trick and Sight Beyond Sight research costs to the cost of the fighter, they are rather expensive. Still, with the amazing Republic Jedi, you are likely to want these in any case.
Republic lacks the heavy assault mech, while the Rebels don't get heavy strikes. Heavy MDs are arguably more important than either, though, and both civs get them, although the Rebels' lack of the final armour upgrade hurts to a degree.
Does anyone have the numbers for the increase in fire rate granted by Kaminoan Cloners? It's probably an important factor for comparison, but not detailed in the map or the tech trees.
Just an error in the booklet (they seem to have a lot of those)
If you want to make troops faster build another troop center for less than you pay for the upgrade and you produce everything faster not just laser troopers.
Anyway i still like the republic cause of their super medics and quick jedi.
So Cloners definitely does not offer a faster fire rate? That's a lot of nova for the faster production of a single unit, then...
Yes, the Republic medics are often overlooked in favour of Repeaters and Jedi but their mad healing skillz (remember that Republic also benefits from its team bonus, even 1v1) add so much to both of these... build 5 and work on a troop-based army with grenadiers and AA troopers backed by Jedi. Can work very nicely, though you'll need to be creative with Fortresses (Jedi can turn turrets fairly quickly and massed Grenadiers do a reasonable job on buildings).
Originally posted by Acidfreeze
I don't know, hearing "For the Rebellion!" every 5 seconds is annoying as well... :rolleyes:
True, but I find it funny when I hear "Taking the safety off..."
Kryllith
starfighters are far from useless. against other humans (NOT a stupid ai) i have used them to completely wreck their economy. TWO adv starfighters (100 food 200 nova) slipped into my enemy's base and wiped out at least 8 workers (at least 400 food) in a matter of minutes and then escaped unharmed, though not before turning an overinquisitive TIE fighter to smoke. In fact I only had to leave because he put AA everywhere and I couldnt attack because the missiles would knock them out of the sky. Then I made use of the tech I had researched for teh Starfighters, MindTrick, sending in 5inexpensive republicmasters, and completely shut down his econ by forcing him to garrison all his workers. Later the Starfighters proved invaluable as spies, I was able to watch his every move, know when he would attack, etc. And they can just hover fight over the very center of the enemy empire completely unnoticed. It is almost like Bothan Spynet at a fraction of the cost.
And as sith has already said, starfighters are excellent against air cruisers. Both games I played against him I used these "worthless" starfighters to defeat him. He realized how useful they were once I used them against him. :) Republic beats Rebels, they have a "small edge" over them in almost everything so there is little reason to play rebels with Republic available.
Training speed -- Is rarely the deciding issue in a game. You can train units instantly but lack the resources to do so (think Perfusion Goths in AOC). Often, you can get the same benefit of faster training by just making additional Barracks etc. anyway. An improvement to make Migdols train faster just saves you the cost of 3-4 extra Migdols."
That was a quote from Greg Street the lead game designer of AoK (which this game is very much based on) about a tech in AoM that has a wider and greater effect than Kamionoan (sp?) Cloners. It isnt as good of a bonus as most of this forum thinks it is and i would rather have quality troopers than crap ones that come out every second.
In a recent game, I was playing someone who kept on sending clone troopers at me. It didnt matter that he could build an army of 20 in 30 secs, they still died in the hands of dark troopers and atats. Also, there arent better civs, just different ones and favorite ones and simwiz who ever your opponent was must have been a total moron to allow this to happen.
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
In a recent game, I was playing someone who kept on sending clone troopers at me. It didnt matter that he could build an army of 20 in 30 secs, they still died in the hands of dark troopers and atats.
Yes, my ally was a complete moron.
and simwiz who ever your opponent was must have been a total moron to allow this to happen.
LoL
SimWiz, the trick you describe could have been done more cheaply and just as effectively by four fighters, unless your opponent had a ring of AA turrets with no detection at all surrounding his entire base at the time you went raiding. Calling him a moron might be a touch harsh, but most good players will put a turret or a couple of AA units in or near resource spots - had your opponent done so, the fighters would have gone down as quickly as normal aircraft. I repeat that the Jedi Starfighter uncloaks not just to attack but also during the pause before it attacks. There is no hope of your decloaking and surprising opposing units unless they are in transit - because they will spot your expensive Jedi planes as they decloak and sit there for the requisite few moments, and will doubtless use that time to tear apart your investment. Jedi starfighters work OK on moving armies, but then again so do normal fighters. Using them en masse as attack craft is extremely wasteful, since the Republi have access to fully upgraded advanced fighters for less than half the nova cost.
I agree to an extent about their use in reconaissance, but even then I fear that many good players will have reasonable sensor tower coverage and, if you are playing the Republic, probably bounty hunters as well. To expect them to "hover over the very centre of the enemy empire completely unnoticed" is optimistic to the point of naivete.
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Starfighter for its unique spying abilities and I use them myself. I'm merely pointing out that its uses are limited and that conventional aircraft are much better in almost any combat situation.
The Rebellion has, on balance, the best airforce in the game, closely followed by the Naboo. The Republic comes a very definite third. The Republic also trails the Rebels on troopers IMO, although this is a much thornier issue. Republic mechs are better, as are their Jedi. Note that every single one of these differences is very slight - yes, even the Jedi one.
Incidentally, when you said
took out at least 8 workers (at least 400 food) in a matter of minutes
I sincerely hope you meant "seconds" - otherwise those workers must have been extremely buff ;)
Well he had fortresses/AA around his base, but for some reason didnt build outsposts at any point in the game. I originally sent the two right to his base to scout it out, but all those undefended workers was too good an opportunity to pass up :) he had bounties and dark troops going back and forth but I had sight beyond sight, and could usually spot trouble and move to another part of the base. I dont think it would have been possible with fighters, as any that got past the AA (which would have homing sensors by then) would be eaten by his many AA mobiles (which were at one point right under my invisible starfighters) :) Abmittedly it took me more than "seconds" to destroy all the workers, partly to low rate of fire, but mostly because starfighters are expensive so I was being a bit overcautious with getting them away from where they were last seen before he could bring in detectors.
And they spy thing probably wouldnt be very effective against most people, i dont know maybe Sithmaster wasnt aware that sentry posts could be used as effective detectors, he never buiilt any and didnt discover any of my hovering starfighters until he happened to run a bounty hunter near them which was on its way to try and prevent my cloaked masters from slaughtering his workers.
Originally posted by D'Blee
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Starfighter for its unique spying abilities and I use them myself. I'm merely pointing out that its uses are limited and that conventional aircraft are much better in almost any combat situation.
That period before the Starfighter fires really needs to be shortened. I could see if SWGB was limited in detector units, but this is definitely not the case. There's the probot, darktrooper, royal crusader, bounty, scout mech, sentry post, and more. At least the fortress can't detect anymore or else starfighters would really be cooked.
The Rebellion has, on balance, the best airforce in the game, closely followed by the Naboo. The Republic comes a very definite third. The Republic also trails the Rebels on troopers IMO, although this is a much thornier issue. Republic mechs are better, as are their Jedi. Note that every single one of these differences is very slight - yes, even the Jedi one.
I don't think the Rebels' airforce is hands down THE BEST, but I'm willing to compromise on that one. However, you will never be able to tell me that the Rebels have better troopers than the Republic :p ! At best, Rebel troops and Republic troops are even (one comes out faster and sees farther and the other is sturdier).
The difference between Rebel and Republic Jedi is huge, not slight. Republic Jedi move 10% faster, see much farther due to sight beyond sight, are built from a cheaper building, and don't forget the holocron bonus. It is naboo's Jedi who are close to the Republic's.
If the Rebels wanted to see far, they would use sentry posts/scouts. If they wanted to make troops faster they would build a cheap little troop center. If the republic wanted quality troop the only thing they could do is convert them which kinda negates their production bonus. Also you do know that the prodution difference between the Rebellions troops and the Republic's is one second. Not much faster even with the production queue filled. Most of the Republics trooper produce speed comes from universal (and cheaper) techs.
Dont believe me listen to the experts (
http://www.rtscentral.com/readTopic.asp?hdr=&PostingId=856281)
Also, the starfighter is too expensive and attacks too slow to be really useful but if they increase fire rate to like say a fighter, then they will be unbalanced. I think slightly higher attack would be a better solution.
(Quoted form Sidious from prior link)
In the two 1v1s i played against Gandalf he was Rebs I was repulbic and got this tech and no matter how fast i pumped them out..........His reb troopers with 20+ hp raped them with ease.........
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
If the republic wanted quality troop the only thing they could do is convert them which kinda negates their production bonus.
The republic HAS quality troops already. So they dont get the 20 extra hitpoints that Rebels have, that's like saying the Rebels don't have quality troops because they don't get 30 extra hitpoints like the wookiees do. You make it sound like Rebels can just build an extra troop center and produce QUALITY troops while the Republic just pumps out CRAP troops. Not so. If you want crap troops play as Naboo. But arguing that the Repulbic has crappy troopers as far as quality goes is stupid. Republic gets all the standard upgrades. And let's not forget about the medic bonus. It is a bit harder to kill a unit when it is being healed as fast as it's being damaged.
An interesting test would be: 1 rebel troop and a medic VS 1 republic troop and a medic. Of course in a game you wont have a 1:1 troop/medic ratio, but you can still get closer-to-actual results than saying "Rebel has +20 hp so they are better"
edit: typos
First of all, "Tougher Armor" gives +20 hp (not +10, maybe you misread the manual?) bonus to the Rebs at a very low cost (even in CC).
Secondly the Republic does have crap troops because, unlike the Naboo or TF, the republic is supposed to excel in troops (read first post of the thread), and have the standard is not exactly exceling if you ask me.
Originally posted by simwiz2
And let's not forget about the medic bonus
Originally posted by me
i still like the republic cause of their super medics
'Nuff said.
Also, responding to the question at the very beginning, the Republic jedi that "go bad" when they pick up holocrons is a bug in the game, but it doesnt really affect gameplay.
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Secondly the Republic does have crap troops because, unlike the Naboo or TF, the republic is supposed to excel in troops (read first post of the thread), and have the standard is not exactly exceling if you ask me.
And I guess wookiees have crap air, because they supposedly excel in air yet they have only the "standard" upgrades.
And the trade federation must also then have crap mechs, because other than the "standard" upgrades their only bonus is their UU, which despite being quite effective is not exactly an upgrade. And why not add in the empire to the ranks of crappy-strengths as well, pre-CC all Walker Research did was reduce minimum range, definately not better than Kaminoan Cloners. And it sure doesnt help much against Republic Jedi.
And the Naboo must have crap air then, since they get only standard + advanced engines - and if anyone has found that speed advantage to be noticable in any way then plz tell me. I would definately have a significantly higher creation rate than an unnoticable speed difference.
The difference between Rebel and Republic Jedi is huge, not slight. Republic Jedi move 10% faster, see much farther due to sight beyond sight, are built from a cheaper building, and don't forget the holocron bonus. It is naboo's Jedi who are close to the Republic's.
Sorry, but no. The difference between Republic and Gungan Jedi is huge. The difference between Rebel and Republic Jedi is slight. Cheaper Temples are not a huge advantage - how many do you usually build? The Holocron bonus does not directly affect the strength of the Jedi, any more than the Gungan ore bonus affects the strength of their turrets. Sight Beyond Sight is useful but not useful enough to make a "huge" difference - remember it's LOS, not conversion range. The 10 percent speed bonus is nice but, again, not a huge difference - not unlike the Naboo's "Advanced Engines". Both civs have access to excellent Jedi Masters and can benefit enormously from using them. The difference, therefore, is slight.
Republic troopers are not "crap". The Republic has FU Repeaters, plus an extra enhancement in the form of Sight Beyond Sight. Wookie, Rebel and Gungan troops are directly superior in combat, as are Confed troops, with the caveat that they cannot be healed by medics. Confed, Rebel and Wookie troops enjoy superiority on the basis their ability to last longer in combat and thus deal more damage for an equivalent cost. Gungan Repeaters claim a much narrower advantage because they will start firing at units earlier due to their extra range.
However, the fact remains that massed FU repeaters are extremely useful and the Republic has a couple of unique techs that give them extra, if arguably peripheral, advantages. It is facetious to deride them just because the manual claims troopers as a specific strength of the Republic and because there are better Repeaters around.
Also, remember that the Republic also get the Sith Purge upgrade.
Everyone should calm down a little. We're geting a little too worked up over the fact that some people prefer the rebels over the republic:p A couple more smileys on posts would be nice.
That said...
D'Blee, altough the Rebels have good jedi, there's a much bigger difference between the two than you make it seem. The Republic has all of the jedi techs, the rebels are missing 2. Also the holocron bonus helps because more nova=more jedi. Faster speed is noticeable at least to me and is a great help. You can do the same stuff with both civs its just that the republic is better at doing it.
Simwiz, you are comparing geniuses and Dan Quayles:). Mechs and air have a lot of civs that have sub-standard units so the standard becomes good to have. On the other hand, troops have only 2 civs with sub-standard civs so the standard isn't as good. Also UU's are considered as advancing the civs ranking in different catergories (Hint: Look at the Rebels or the Britons in AoC). The Naboo bonus is seeable on bombers, and that combined with cheaper air thru taxation and holocron bonus (see above paragraph) leads to the nabo's strength in air. The Empire has cheaper upgrades, faster production (altough production isnt really worth anything), and a great UT (Were talking post-CC or else the republic wouldnt be here:) and that the tech brings the minimum range from like 4 to 1). And once again, you have to compare what each individual civ has compared to what others have, it is impossible to judge their strengths separately.
Also, a little FYI, this thread is bordering on idiocity:D :D
At last. A cool newbie.:D
Newb? Oh maybe to these forums.:D
Originally posted by simwiz2
The republic HAS quality troops already. So they dont get the 20 extra hitpoints that Rebels have, that's like saying the Rebels don't have quality troops because they don't get 30 extra hitpoints like the wookiees do. You make it sound like Rebels can just build an extra troop center and produce QUALITY troops while the Republic just pumps out CRAP troops. Not so. If you want crap troops play as Naboo. But arguing that the Repulbic has crappy troopers as far as quality goes is stupid. Republic gets all the standard upgrades. And let's not forget about the medic bonus. It is a bit harder to kill a unit when it is being healed as fast as it's being damaged.
edit: typos
OMG, thank you simwiz2!!!!!!!!!!
Directed to Sithmaster_821:
standard isn't excelling but the Republic isn't standard in troops! They get kaminoan cloners (which isn't as worthless as you wish it was), and sight beyond sight. I don't care how bad you think these techs are- the Republic still gets what other races don't.
I'm looking at those techs from a cost perspective:
Sight Beyond Sight (325 nova)-This is a good upgrade for jedi and starfighters (stealth+large LOS=good scout:D) but for troops it really doesnt matter because I almost always have support units or seige units that can see farther (air, mechs, cannons, air cruisers, AA mobiles, ect.)
Kaminoan Cloners (400 food, 500 nova)-The high price tag and minimal effect (it ony affects training speed of laser troopers) make it a poor choice in RM. I could see a purpose in DM if your planning on repeater flooding, but even then you could build more troop centers or do the cheaper and broader universal techs (Droid Assistants, Efficient Buildings, and Automated Process).
The other civs troopers either have more cost effective or better techs or they dont have to spend 400 food and 825 nova on nelegible techs and can specialize in another area where they have meaningful techs.
One more thing, you all do realize that I am like the only one arguing for the Rebels, and yet you all persist to keep arguing. Jeez, I'm only one person, dont have to convert the world to the Republic:p :) :p
Don't worry about it. I'll take Fambaa protected gungan repeaters over republic repeaters anyday. :)
Kryllith
Hey, I like them both. :D I think that maybe "bordering on idiocy" is a little bit unkind. :( I'm quite enjoying this thread, since it bears little resemblance to the "Celts are LAMERZ and Britons OWNZ JOO" threads of yesteryear :rolleyes:
I like both civs, and think they're just different enough to be interesting. Of course, if you prefer Gungans (Kryllith) then something is wrong with you and you're obviously a deviant.
:D
A suffciency of smilies? ;)
Yep but could be more.:D
BTW I still think Alliance rules and Republic will fall, myahahahah
[QUOTE]Originally posted by D'Blee
[B]
Ah, yes, but remember that post X-pack the Rebels even get the team bonus (even if you're playing alone) of increased farm food. Which can make a difference, especially on a low food map. This is the Rebels' important economic advantage.
Kaminoan Refit is the Republic counterpart, major drawback is that you need to have banthas on the map, think the Refit is more usefull on the long term
Naboo and Republic both get increased Holocron trickle.
Very usefull I'd say
The Airspeeder is extremely useful, as others have said. Still trying to decide about the A-wing. The Jedi Starfighter, on the other hand, has incredibly limited usefulness, much of which evaporates if your opponent plops sentry towers around the map - as I tend to. Were it not for that horrid delay before firing, they might have more of a use in hit and fade, but the time they spend uncloaked while the pilot searches for the trigger or whatever he's doing is frequently a killer.
I agree about the airspeeder, also have to decide about the A-wing. Jedi starfighter is usefull to counter aircruisers while underway the enemy can't see them coming, also, as every air unit it can evade the aircruiser shots, since no area effect is done in the air that is the killer for the aircruiser agains air units. If used the right way the Jedi Starfighter can be a lethal enemy.
Completely off-topic and apropos of nothing, but is anyone else upset that the mighty Republic Gunship is reduced to the status of a fast fighter? Look at the guns on that puppy! They should all fire five times each and drop a bunch of little Yodas on the enemy and then do cool stuff and have ball turrets and strafe stuff and... anyway.
Extremely upset about this only fires 1 gun in the game, in the movie it had 4 glass ball turrets with a clone inside, firing with :deathstar superlaser effect (not as powerfull off course) 2 balls on the front chin of the plane and 2 forward firing blasters on the top, I would LOVE to have this in the game too, maybe as a seperate Republic Only upgrade, shouldn't be fast fighter but advanced fighter. Fast fighter should have 2 glass ball turrets. This fighter should also be able to transport troops. About 1 maybe 2 troops in a fighter.
If playing gungans makes me a deviant than I'm proud to be a deviant. ;) What can I say, I like being able to turtle if necessary (and I make a tasty soup... actually that was probably in bad taste so just ignore it :)). I like the gungans' ability to heal most things, especially their medics... man I hate it when people start shooting my medics and I have to pull in a worker to fix it. Give me gungun healing abilities anyday. :)
Kryllith